1996-03-06 Final DRC MinutesCity of Orange
Design Review Board
MINUTES
for Wednesday, March 6, 1996
Board Members Present: Richard Cavecche
Steven McHarris
Tim McCormack
Steven Prothero (Chair)
Erika Wolfe
Board Members Absent: None
Staff in Attendance: Dan Ryan, Senior Planner /Historic Preservation
Howard Moms, Landscape Coordinator
Pat Schulz, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 4:00 P.M.
The board met for an administrative session beginning at 4:00 P.M. The meeting adjourned at
approximately 8:00 P.M.
Timothy McCormack, Landscape Architect, was introduced as the DRB member filling the
position vacated by Beau Shigetomi.
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 2
Regular Session - S: 00 P.M.
Mr. Prothero (Chair) opened the meeting and asked whether board members had any comments
about, or revisions to, the meeting minutes for February 7, 1996 and February 21, 1996.
Mr. Prothero: Item No. 1 (D.R.B. 3093). He recalled stating "at least one" with reference to the
vertical picket fence.
Mr. McHarris: Item No. 1 (D.R.B. 3093). He recalled that the discussion regarding loading doors
was more specific (period doors, flat panel doors).
MOTION by Erika Wolfe to approve the minutes of February 7, 1996 with the following
corrections:
Condition No. 2, Item No. I (D.R.B. 3093) shall be modified to read:
The parking lot planter area shall be minimum 2 ft. wide clear. The fence shall be
installed along the interior side of the planter with at least one additional vertical picket at
center of the fence opening.
Condition No. 5, Item No. I (D.R.B. 3093) shall be modified to read:
The existing loading doors at the rear of the building shall be replaced with period doors
such as flat panel doors.
SECOND: Steven McHams
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Steven McHarris, Steven Prothero, and Erika Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: Timothy McCormack
MOTION CARRIED
MOTION by Erika Wolfe to approve the minutes of February 21, 1996 with the following
corrections:
The vote should reflect Beau Shigetomi as absent.
Page 3, Line 9 to read as follows:
Mrs. Harnack stated that the structures were to remain 15 feet from the westerly property
line for drain purposes. The board did not require the garage to be moved an additional 2
ft. from the easterly property line and approved the proposal as shown on submitted plans.
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City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 3
(Continued from the previous page)
Page 3, third line from the bottom to read as follows:
Steve Prothero recommended checking with the Building Division to see if building
materials need to be one hour rated due to the location of buildings adjacent to property
line if the building is 2 feet from the property line.
SECOND: Richard Cavecche
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Steven McHarris, Steven Prothero, and Erika Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: Timothy McCormack
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 4
Regular Session -Consent Calendar
Mr. Prothero (Chair) asked board members if there were applications that contained adequate
information to convey design detail, if there were no question for the applicant, and the proposal
appeared to be appropriate for approval as submitted?
Ms. Wolfe stated that the proposal for a fence in the front yard area for Tom Porter at 195 S.
Glassell Street ((D.R.B. No. 2132, Item No. 2 on this agenda), to be acceptable as submitted with
one condition.
MOTION by Erika. Wolfe, to recommend that the Planning Commission approve the
proposal with one condition, that wrought iron be used rather than tubular steel.
SECOND: Richard Cavecche
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Timothy McCormack, Steven McHarris, Steven
Prothero, and Erika. Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
Steven McHarris noted that the proposed sign for the Library Bookstore Annex located at 43 I E.
Chapman Avenue (Item No. 8 on this agenda, D.R.B. No. 3138) is acceptable if the sign height is
reduced from 48" to 42".
MOTION by Steven McHarris to approve the proposal with the stipulation that the sign height be
reduced from 48" to 42".
SECOND: Erika Wolfe
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Timothy McCormack, Steven McHarris, Steven
Prothero, and Erika Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page S
New Proposals -
(1) DRB No. 2927
Orange Housing Development
Corporation
500 N. Orange St.
Glen Matsui
Landscape and irrigation plans
R-3 (Residential Multiple Family) District
Steven Prothero noted that the board expressed concern regarding the landscaping in the parkway strip.
Agapanthas and Pittosporum are not durable enough for this location due to its location adjacent to a
public school. It was suggested that turf be used to be consistent with the area.
Mr. Matsui requested, on behalf of his client, that turf not be used.
It was suggested by Mr. McCormack that needlepoint ivy be planted, however it takes a long time to
establish. Mr. Matsui suggested an oriental grass.
Mr. McCormack suggested shading patio areas with a tree from south exposure, moving Morea from edge
so it isn't "hedged," wrap the shrub around to make dramatic backdrop, and incorporate more mock orange
trees or an orange tree.
Howard Morris inquired about who will be maintaining the landscape. Mr. Matsui was unsure. Bob
Mickelson, OHDC Board Member, stated that the landscape will be maintained by someone on staff. The
applicant is seeking low maintenance landscaping as funds for maintenance are a concern.
MOTION by Steven Prothero to approve the plan with the following conditions:
1. Utilize turf (to tolerate pedestrian foot traffic) in the parkways along Walnut Avenue and Orange
Street to match surrounding parkways.
2. Multi-stemmed Meloluca
3. Relocate tree for patio shade.
4. Move Morea away from sidewalk.
5. Wrap shrubs around as a base planting and cluster Agapanthas closely at the corner.
6. Final landscape and imgation plans will be submitted to the Design Review Board for approval.
SECOND: Timothy McCormack
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Timothy McCormack, Steven McI-Ia.rris, Steven
Prothero, and Erika. Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange .Design Review Board
MeetingMinutes for March 6, 1996
Page 6
(3) DRB No. 3133
Citrus City Grille
122 N. Glassell St.
Chris Light
Full service restaurant with proposed
improvements including new/upgrade facade,
outdoor courtyard and 22 space parking lot.
C-1 (Limited Business) District; Old Towne
Chris Light, Wayne Van Heel, Lisa Blanc, and Bob Mickelson represented Citrus City Grille.
Steve Prothero (Chair) expressed concerns the board had with landscaping.
Bob Mickelson interjected that the applicant is applying for a variance with regard to the 10 ft. landscape
setback and 10% of parking. With regard to landscaping, the applicant intends to have a screen hedge
along the street.
Richard Cavecche asked if the steel cased rear windows and door, as well as windows along the front
would remain.
Chris Light said they would remain, the front windows will be dressed up somewhat.
Timothy McCormack asked about front lighting. Mr. Light suggested that uplighting was a good idea and
he would address that issue with their electrical consultant.
Mr. Prothero expressed concern with regard to the center element, added to the original building design.
He pointed out that this is a continuous building, not a stand alone or on a prominent corner where the
element would contribute as a focal point. It is preferred that the original elements be used as the focal
point of this building. Other board members agreed.
Richard Cavecche inquired about placement of rooftop equipment. Chris Light pointed out that the
equipment will be back far enough from the front and won't be seen from Glassell Street. In the rear it will
be shielded from Olive Street view as the roof is approximately 3' lower than the parapet rim.
Dan Ryan inquired about the sign.
Lisa Blanc indicated that it would probably be a 3 banded sign, curved out from the face of the building.
Tim McCormack asked about the trash enclosure and landscaping in the rear parking -there are shrubs
but why not trees?
Richard Cavecche pointed out that fencing along side property lines appear to be atemporary construction
fence. He suggested that the fence be removed.
The board questioned lighting in the rear parking area. Jim Donovan (staff) reported that OMC required a
minimum average level of 1 foot candle for parking lots.
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City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 7
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Bob Mickelson remarked that this project has 100% more parking than the initial proposal to lease Lesson
Pomeroy's property for this same use. That property had zero parking. Mr. Mickelson didn't feel that it is
just to impose the properly owner with the Old Towne stipulation of period lighting and parking
requirements when other buildings have zero parking.
MOTION by Steven Prothero to approve the concept subject to the following:
1. The applicant is to return to the DRB with final drawings and final sign drawings back addressing:
A. The center element on the Glassell Street elevation.
B. The sign is part of architecture of building addressed at same time as building
C. Materials -something other than Contera stone due to softness and ability to stain.
D. Rear building lighting required.
2. Call out specific landscape plants. Also recommended are vine pockets and trees on south
elevation
3. Rooftop equipment, hood vents, lighting, etc. to be spelled out on plan.
4. Rear door material similar to rear windows.
SECOND: Erika Wolfe
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Timothy McCormack, Steven McHams, Steven
Prothero, and Erika Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 8
(4) DRB No. 3135
Enrique and Carmen Mendoza
628 S. Grand St.
Luis Mendoza
Proposed second story, second unit.
R-2-6 (Residential Duplex, 6,000 sq. ft. min.)
Old Towne
The applicants and/or representatives were not present at the meeting to address issues and concerns. This
item was continued to March 20, 1996 meeting.
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 9
(5) DRB No. 3136
City of Orange
West of Metrolink Station, between
Palm and Chapman
Joseph C. Truxaw & Associates
West Santa Fe Depot parking lot and
monument sign
SPZ-PI (Specific Plan /Public Institution)
Old Towne
Neil Millward (staff), Frank Radmacher (Landscape Architect), Bill Truxaw (civil engineer) and
Jerry Bailey (staff) presented the proposal.
Steven Prothero (Chair) expressed board concerns. Cobra head lighting fixtures are not historic
period lighting as called out in the Santa Fe Depot Specific Plan. Also expressed was a concern
with regard to cross aisle traffic congestion.
Timothy McCormack expressed concerns regarding landscaping as follows:
1. There should be an entry statement made at access points form public streets.
2. Carrotwood trees vary in size (24" box and 15 gallon) presenting a visually discordant
upper plane. This is a formal statement and all trees should be the same size.
3. Camphors are on the other side of track (Magnolias on list).
Frank Radmacher stated that they followed the landscaping called out in Specific Plan.
Steven Prothero stated that the Santa Fe Specific Plan Guidelines were specifically written to maintain
continuity.
Jerry Bailey interjected that the cost of period lighting fixtures specified in the Specific Plan are double the
cost of cobra heads ($1,700 per fixture). In response to the question regarding funds for the project, Mr.
Bailey informed that $238,000 is budgeted for the Maple to Chapman area and $450,000 to $460,000 for
entire project. Using 15 gallon trees will save some toward period lighting.
Richard Cavecche proposed steel tube fence with screening on backside of fence.
Howard Morns stated that he preferred wire mesh because screening could be easily vandalized.
Timothy McCormack inquired if there is a visibility problem turning right and looking left due to the sign.
Jerry Bailey responded that a 42" sign won't obstruct view.
Jim Donovan stated that the traffic engineer prefers a 32" sign height but Orange Municipal Code allows
42" sign height.
Jerry Bailey stated that traffic prefers lighting in the planters so there is less of a liability issue.
Jerry Bailey noted the plan set the sign at 4.2 ft. and should be changed to 42". Steven Prothero agreed that
the plan was mislabeled.
(Continued on the following page)
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 10
(Continued from the previous page)
MOTION by Timothy McCormack to approve the proposal subject to the following:
1. Change trees at entrance on Maple to be the same; all other trees 15 gallon with the exception of
24" box at three entrances (recommend camphor)
2. Recommend Oleanders changed to another more suitable tree.
3. Cobra lights to be changed to more historical period lights in accordance with the Specific Plan.
4. Recommend 1/4" wire mesh with vines attached.
5. Correct sign height to be 42" maximum.
SECOND: Richard Cavecche
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Timothy
Prothero, and Erika Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
McCormack, Steven McHarris, Steven
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 11
(6) DRB No. 3137
The Mills Corporation
The City Center Shopping Center
Elizabeth Link
Proposal to demolish the existing City Cent
Shopping Center and construct a new shop
center.
C-2 (General Business) District
Elizabeth Link, representing The Mills Corporation, introduced Frank Fuller (ELS Architects),
Tim Gibbon (Site Signatures), Geno Yun (ELS Architects) and Jerry Haag, planning consultant.
Ms. Link presented concept plans and colored renderings, and material sample boards. She
explained the conceptual plan, depicting proposed entrances and focal points for the project. Ms.
Link summarized that the project design will be a townscape style, a nice cross between the City
Walk and Fashion Island and further explained the importance of utilizing strong colors and
several major and minor bold, architectural elements. Ms. Link indicated that directional signs
would be placed at all entrances indicating the major tenants. Individual preliminary elevation
plans depicting individual tenant needs will be presented to the board as they lease each major
space. As major tenants are brought into the project, their designs will be reviewed in their
entirety. To coordinate these various individual tenant designs, the Mills Corporation will provide
their clients with design standards and guidelines (which are currently being developed). These
will be available for staff and DRB review).
The board members and the applicant discussed the design concepts of the proposal.
Ms. Link is seeking approval of the conceptual plan site plan, building elevations and landscaping
plans.
Richard Cavecche inquired as to the maximum height of the project. Ms. Link indicated the
maximum was 64 feet. Mr. Yun stated the maximum height was 70 feet at the peak on the theater
structure.
The board's primary concerns were as follows: 1) the lack of defined and articulated destination
entry points 2) the lack of landscaping in the central areas of the parking lot, 3) a concern to save
and use existing trees, and 4) the need to define pedestrian accessways through the parking lot from
the perimeter streets to the shopping center.
Ms. Link responded that it is the intent of the applicant to reuse as much of the plant life as
reasonable. Ms. Link expressed that security in the parking lot is a major factor, thereby posing
the open parking lot concept.
The board and the applicant discussed dividing the two large open parking lots with tree rows, and
design the axis of the drive isles to facilitate pedestrian access.
(Continued on the following page)
City of Orange .Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 1996
Page 12
(Continued from the previous page)
MOTION by Steven Prothero to recommend that the Planning Commission approve the conceptual
building elevation (color, materials and the architectural direction [townscape concept]), a site plan
and landscaping plans with the following stipulations:
Return to the Design Review Board with the following:
A) Submit plans depicting entry treatment at the ringroad, fixing the driveway locations as
well as entry treatment at buildings.
B) Submit the project's Design Standards and Guidelines for DRB review.
C) Plans delineating the use of landscaping (move and use existing trees) to mitigate the large
expanse of asphalt in the parking lots.
D) DRB to review preliminary building and landscaping plans prior to preparation of
construction documents.
E) Modification to the site plans and landscaping plans to delineate a pedestrian access
through the parking lots from the perimeter streets to the shopping center.
SECOND: Steven McHarris
AYES: Richard Cavecche, Timothy McCormack, Steven McHarris, Steven
Prothero, and Erika. Wolfe
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED