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1996-01-17 Final DRC MinutesCity of Orange Design Review Board MINUTES for Wednesday, January 17, 1996 Board Members Present: Richard Cavecche Steve McHarris Steven Prothero (Chair) Beau Shigetomi Erika Wolfe Board Members Absent: None Staff in Attendance: Pat Schulz, Recording Secretary Dan Ryan, Senior Planner /Historic Preservation Regular Session - S: 00 P.M. The board met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 P.M. The meeting adjourned at approximately 6:30 P.M. Mr. Prothero (Chair) started the meeting, and asked for comments about meeting minutes from December 20, 1995. Board members indicated that no changes should be made to minutes. MOTION by Steven Prothero (Chair) to approve meeting minutes as recorded. SECOND: Steven McHarris AYES: Steven McHarris, Steven Prothero, and Beau Shigetomi NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: Richard Cavecche and Erika Wolfe MOTION CARRIED City of Orange .Design Review Board MeetingMinutes for January 17, 1996 Page 2 Continued Items - (1) DRB No. 3119 Eric Chan (Ormco Corp.) 1717 W. Collins TNT Neon Sign Company Proposed illuminated monument sign for a dental manufacturing company. Industrial District (M-2) Oscar Garcia, TNT Neon Sign Company represented the applicant. Beau Shigetomi asked if the monument sign was for one company. Mr. Garcia replied that Ormco was the main company with several divisions. Mr. Shigetomi stated that the blue letters would not work as the background is required to be opaque and the light would not shine through the blue letters. Mr. Garcia indicated that the background is aluminum with 1/2" push thru acrylic translucent letters. Mr. Prothero presented the issue of an illuminated address sign. Mr. Garcia stated that the address will be the same color as the letters. Erika Wolfe inquired about the base of the sign and landscaping. Mr. Garcia replied that they will not be landscaping; there is grass in the pad. The other sign will be removed so there will only be one sign on the property. MOTION by Erika Wolfe to approve the sign with an opaque background based on the content of discussion. SECOND: Steven McHams AYES: Richard Cavecche, Steven McHarris, Steven Prothero, Beau Shigetomi and Erika Wolfe NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange .Design Review Board Meeting Minutes}or.Ianuary 17, 1996 Page 3 New Proposals - (2) DRB No. 3121 Shell Oil Company 1914 E. Chapman Avenue Donco & Sons, Inc. Remove existing pole sign and install new Shell FOS pole sign. Limited Business District (G1) Mr. John Barber, representing Donco & Sons, Inc. presented plans to replace an existing pole sign. Two existing area lights will be removed, the planter enlarged so the sign will not be in the 15' visibility triangle. The replacement sign will be the standard 2' x 2' shcebox fixture. Steven Prothero (Chair) brought up the issue of numerous signs attached to the pole sign. Mr. Barber indicated that no other signs were proposed to be attached to the new pole sign other than overall gasoline prices. Erika Wolfe stated that the sign must have an opaque background. Mr. Barber stated that if he could see the City Ordinance regulating opaque backgrounds he would comply. He further stated that he has installed signs at the Union 76 at Chapman/Prospect; Chevron and Arco at Chapman/55 Freeway which do not have opaque backgrounds. Mr. Prothero stated that it has been the policy of the Design Review Board, for at least 20 years, to require opaque backgrounds on signs. He further stated., with regard to this new sign, that the opaque requirement pertains only to the red background. Mr. Prothero also stated that there is a code requirement for the address to be illuminated. Mr. Barber requested, as part of the motion, for a copy of the code stating the requirement regarding opaque backgrounds. Mr. Prothero clarified the issue that the opaque requirement was in the code, removed over the objections of the Design Review Board, and the Design Review Board has continued to maintain the policy. The board informed Mr. Barber that opaque background condition can be appealed to the City Council. MOTION by Beau Shigetomi to approve the sign with an opaque background. SECOND: Erika Wolfe AYES: Richard Cavecehe, Steven McHarris, Steven Prothero, Beau Shigetomi and Erika Wolfe NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange .Design Review Board Meeting Minutes for January 17, 1996 Page 4 (3) DRB No. 3122 Friendship Club Corp. 2191 Orange-Olive Road Brad A. Bona Minor remodel involving store front work and addition of awnings. Limited Business District (C-1) Mr. Brad Bona spoke on behalf of the Friendship Club Corp. The objective of the proposal is to dress up the outside of the building prompted by the State of California, who mandated that there is to be no smoking inside the building. This proposal for the patio is to accommodate smokers outside. Mr. Prothero expressed concern with the lack of landscaping for the project. The project site is basically a substantially sub-standard building. When a project is presented to the Design Review Board, all aspects of the project need to comply with standards that have been adopted by the City. The main issue is a lack of landscaping. Also, the handicap parking stall does not meet City code as the drop-off point is always on the passenger side. Mr. Bona stated that minimal landscaping is planned due to lack of funding as well as limitations to the parking area. Mr. Prothero inquired about signage. Mr. Bona responded that the address was the only sign. Richard Cavecche asked if exterior rock was going to be painted. Mr. Bona indicated that the exterior rock would not be painted and plans will be revised to reflect this change. Mr. Bona asked the board if the awnings could be burgundy rather than green. It was agreed by the board that green or burgundy would be fine. It was determined by the board that landscape plans could be approved at the counter by staff. 15 gallon trees must be used. MOTION by Steven Prothero to approve the patio extension with the following conditions: (A) The option of either green or burgundy awnings. (B) Sign revisions as indicated on the drawings with the building address on the street (west) elevation and the Friendship Club sign on the north elevation. (C) The addition of a 3 to 4 foot planter across the front on the south side of the driveway and a slightly wider planter on the north side of the driveway. (D) A landscape peninsula in front of the building or to the side of the building (approximately 8 foot wide). Landscape (including 3 to 4 15 gal. trees) and automatic irrigation to be approved by staff. SECOND: Richard Cavecche City of Orange .Design Review Board Meeting Minutes for January 17, 1996 Page S AYES: Richard Cavecche, Steven McHarris, Steven Prothero, Beau Shigetomi and Erika Wolfe NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange .Design Review Board Meeting Minutes for .Tanuary 17, 1996 Page 6 (4) DRB No. 3123 Gary Mead 182 S. Orange Street John Bishop Design Exterior identification signage for PJ's Abbey. Plaza Historic District Limited Business District (C-1) John Bishop from John Bishop Design was present. Beau Shigetomi expressed concern with the height of one monument sign. Erika Wolfe stated that the sign should be no higher than the window sill, so as to not obscure the building's architectural features. Mr. Bishop proposed reducing the base of the sign and possibly reducing the sign itself to comply with the request that the sign be no higher than the window sill. Steve Prothero and Dan Ryan referred to code with reference to the 15' sight triangle which states that signage over 42" must be 15' from the driveway approach. Dan Ryan inquired about lighting and asked the applicant to bring light fixture specification sheets into City Hall for staff approval. There was much discussion regarding internal neon lighting for this project. It was determined that neon lighting is not appropriate for the project as the building will be listed on the National Historical Register requiring signage to reflect the period in which the structure was constructed. Mr. Prothero stated that a front ilhuriinated sign or a non-ilh~min~ted sign is acceptable but an internally illuminated sign is not appropriate. Mr. Ryan stated that there is a section in the Plaza. Design Standards that states, based on historical documentation (proof that the sign was part of the buildings initial history), certain non- conforming signs could be approved. Neon signage was not used originally, or at a later date, on this building. MOTION by Steven Prothero as follows: (A) Move the sign along Orange Street out of the 15' setback triangle or maintain 42" height within that area (owners option) with the final sign location to be approved by staff. (B) The top of the monument sign "B", along Almond Avenue, to be no higher than the bottom ledge of the window. (C) Ground uplighting illumination is approved for both sign locations. (Continued on next page) City of Orange .Design Review Board Meeting Minutes for .Ianuary 17, 1996 Page 7 (Continued from previous page) (D) Two gooseneck fixtures illuminating the wall sign along Almond Avenue to be approved by staff. (E) All other signs are approved as submitted, based on the content of discussion. SECOND: Steven McHarris AYES: Richard Cavecche, Steven McHams, Steven Prothero, Beau Shigetomi and Erika Wolfe NOES: None ABSENT: None ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange .Design Review Board Meeting Minutes for January 17, 1996 Page 8 Discussion - A$er hearing the final proposal, the board discussed the issue of the sign ordinance with regard to opaque backgrounds. Although the section of the Orange Municipal Code pertaining to signs does not restrict the use of transparent backgrounds on illuminated signs, it has been the policy of the Design Review Board to require opaque backgrounds for the reasons listed: Aesthetics (illuminate light clutter) Safety Readability Chuck Lau stated that the use of an opaque background began as Design Review Board policy, was incorporated in the sign code but was recently removed from code. Dan Ryan suggested a memo to Council rewmmending consistency with prior policy, the board feels it is in the best design interest to continue and formalize the opaque background requirement. This could apply only to gas stations, or all signs; whole field or logo; halo, etc.; however the board wants to word it. The board instructed Dan Ryan to prepare a memorandum to the City Council with regard to the aforementioned use of opaque backgrounds on illuminated signs. Mr. Ryan accepted the challenge and indicated that he would return to the next Design Rcview Board meeting, Wednesday, February 7, 1996 with a proposal for review by the board.