1997-11-05 Final DRC MinutesCity of Orange
Design Review Board
MINUTES
for Wednesday, November 5, 1997
Board Members Present: Rick Cavecche
Tim McCormack
Steven McHarris
Steve Prothero (Chair)
Robert Reilly
Board Members Absent: None
Staff in Attendance: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
Howard Morris, Landscape Coordinator
Administrative Session - 4: 30 P.M.
The board met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 P.M. The meeting adjourned at
approximately 8:45 P.M.
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November S, 1997
Page 2
Regular Session - S: 30 P.M.
Steve Prothero opened the meeting. A motion was made by Robert Reilly to approve the
September 17, 1997 minutes with the following corrections:
DRB 3237 (Community Services Department~pa~e 3, paragraph 3, sentence 2 amended as
follows:
The addition of trees ^^a ,:.~,°°~ ^+°r^ in the parking lot are not within the scope of the project.
Page 3. condition #1 amended as follows:
1. Provide linear root barriers ~ in the planter area rather than just around an individual
tree.
DRB 3251 (Hearthstone Development Corporation) page 6, paragraph 2, sentence 3 amended as
follows:
Suggestions were made to use larger grove species of trees through out the site to further
enhance the project and create a better living environment.
Page 6, condition #1, bullet #2 amended as follows:
• Final landscape plans based on the above discussion to use larger grove species of trees_
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack, Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert
Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November 5, 1997
Page 3
A motion was made by Robert Reilly to approve the October 22, 1997 minutes with the
following corrections:
DRB 3259 (Ewing Pro~erties~paae 7 condition #2 sentence 2 amended as follows:
2. Suggest that in areas where new street trees are to be planted that the sidewalk to 8 ft.
wide with the tree well planters placed at the edge of curb face.
Condition #S~sentence 2 amended as follows:
5. The rear (south) building elevation (not submitted) for major tenant "A" is approved
with raised columns with capitals at the corners, and with horizontal banding and painted
vertical "faux-columns" in the mid sections.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack, Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert
Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November S, 1997
Page 4
(1) DRB No. 2910
Robert B. Breskin Revision of previously approved building
200 E. Chapman Avenue elevation for an existing commercial
Ronald W. Aarons, Architect building.
• C-1 (Limited Business District), Old Towne
Applicant not present
MOTION by Steve Prothero to continue this item.
SECOND: Steve McHarris
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack, Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November S, 1997
Page 5
(2) DRB No. 3249
Mills Corporation
Former City Shopping Center Complex
David Evans & Associates
• Update of Landscape and Building design
of the Mills shopping Center Complex
• C-2 (General Business District)
The project was presented by Jerry Engen -Project Manager with Mills Corporation, and Bill
Milsap -Mesa Design Group Landscape Architects. The submittal consist of site plan, landscape
plan, and lighting plan. The southerly portion of the site will subsequently revised for the future
widening and reconfiguration of the 22 Garden Grove Freeway and on-ramp. The parking
spaces that are closer to the entrances are considered to have high turnover usage, and are
slightly wider at 8'-9". The remaining parking spaces around the perimeter are standard 8'-6"
wide. In regards to landscaping, many of the existing matured specimen trees including
Magnolias, Coral trees, and Ficuses are to be removed and stored for replanting in specific areas.
Double rows of Palms are to be planted along both sides of entry drive aisles.
The DRB expressed the following concerns:
• California Pepper trees requires high levels of maintenance due to its droppings. These are
shown on the plan as being spaced too close together.
• The Eucalyptus trees placed at the truck delivery docks are not adequate for screening
purposes. These are linear type trees that does not provide dense foliage especially at the
lower truck area.
• The use of Crepe Myrtles along the end island planters is fairly weak. Planting only one tree
in a 40 ft. long planter is inadequate, and therefore need enhancement in this area. Suggest
minimum of 2 trees per planter.
• The parking lot area which fronts along The City Drive between the 2 existing pad buildings
lacks sufficient landscaping. Abetter solution is needed for this area.
• The plans submitted does not show any signage. How does the signage interface with the
landscaping?
• More detail plans are needed.
MOTION by Steve Prothero to continue the project for further review
SECOND: Steve McHarris
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: Tim McCormack
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November 5, 1997
Page 6
(3) DRB No. 3257
Rite Aid
1845 E. Chapman Avenue
Nadel Architects
• Facade Remodel of existing shopping
center (Thrifty Drugs)
• C-1 (Limited Business District)
The project architect, Henry Quan -Nadel Architects, contacted staff prior to the DRB meeting
and requested a continuance to the next available meeting.
MOTION by Robert Reilly to continue the project to the November 19, 1997 DRB meeting.
SECOND: Steve McHarris
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack, Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November S, 1997
Page 7
(4) DRB No. 3261
Ralph Zehner Addition of 5 new dwelling units and
630 E. Culver Avenue demolition of existing garage on property
Bob Gibson -Designer that currently contains a single family
residence.
• R-2-6 (Residential Duplex District), Old
Towne
Mr. Ralph Zehner, owner of the property, presented the project to the DRB. Several years ago,
the zoning classification along the south side of the 500 thru 800 block of East Culver Avenue
was changed from R-1-6 (Residential -Single Family District, 6,000 sq.ft. minimum lot size) to
R-2-6 (Residential -Duplex District), which allows for one dwelling unit per 3,000 sq.ft. of lot
area. The proposal is to construct 5 dwelling units on a 66 ft. wide by 301 ft. deep (19,866 sq.ft.)
parcel that currently contains an existing single family residence. The proposed site plan
indicates that the existing single story front house would remain, a new 2-story duplex and rental
office would be constructed in the middle, and a new 2-story triplex would be constructed at the
rear of the property The proposal also includes the relocation of an existing 12 ft.. x 48 ft. storage
shed to the rear of the property. A Conditional Use Permit application has been filed with this
project because it is a 2-story development. However, no Variance is needed because it complies
with all applicable zoning code development standards such as; on-site parking, building
setbacks, drive aisle width, vehicular back-up distance, usable open space, lot coverage, etc. Mr.
Zehner emphasized that the proposed 2-story structures are kept at only 25'-6", which is slightly
higher than his existing single story house. Several of the adjacent properties are also developed
with 2 story structures. The proposed exterior finishing material is masonite siding. Several of
the architectural features such as the gable end details, attic vents, rafter ends, roof pitch, rotund
columns, corner details, etc., were designed to emulate the existing front house. The doors are of
a solid panel design, and the exterior stair cases are of an open see-thru design to comply with
Orange Police Department Crime Prevention Bureau requirements.
Steve Prothero replied: I'm not really sure why the zoning was changed to allow the higher
density development. But it presents a major problem with trying to keep with the intent of the
Old Towne Design Standards in dealing with the aesthetic and design issues. The DRB must
make findings based upon specific design criteria as follows:
• For all projects:
The proposed work conforms to the standards and design criteria referenced and/or
recommended by the Design Review Board for the project.
• For building additions and modifications:
The proposed work will neither adversely affect the significant architectural features of
the building or adversely affect the character of historical, architectural, or aesthetic
interest or value of the building, its site, or the surrounding area.
• For new construction:
The use and design of any new construction shall not adversely affect, and shall be
compatible with, the use and design of existing buildings within Old Towne.
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November S, 1997
Page 8
All project in Old Towne must comply with the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA).
Mr. Zehner asked the DRB for suggestions of how all of this can be accomplished. This is the
first project that is being developed to the new density and zoning classification, however, the
surrounding properties in the area are already developed with 2-story multiple family dwelling
units. This is no longer a single family district.
Rick Cavecche replies: According to the Old Towne Design Standards, under compatibility of
the project with surrounding development and neighborhoods:
• The development shall be consistent in size, scale and context with surrounding
development.
• The development shall not erode or adversely affect an historic resource or district.
Also in regards to the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and Guidelines for Rehabilitation,
under items NOT Recommended:
• Introducing new construction onto the building site which is visually incompatible in terms
of size, scale, design, materials, color and texture or which destroys historic relationships on
the site.
• Removing or radically changing those features or the district or neighborhood which are
important in defining the overall historic character so that, as a result, the character is
diminished.
• Introducing new construction into historic districts that is visually incompatible or that
destroys historic relationships within the district or neighborhood.
Mr. Zehner asked: So it is the DRB's opinion that the proposed project is visually incompatible
with the existing? If so, what specifically?
Rick Cavecche replies: Specifically, the bulk and size of the project, its overall length.
Mr. Zehner asked: How is bulk and size defined?
Rick Cavecche replies: The number of units being proposed, the compatibility with the existing
uses (mostly single family residences) in the area, and having a relatively high F.A.R. (Floor
Area Ratio) as compared to the existing single family uses in the area. Also the proposed use of
8 inch wide masonite siding does not match that of the existing, and the proposed use of
aluminum sliding window and door is incompatible. The amount of concrete being used through
out the site is excessive. The proposed project does not comply with the 01d Towne Design
Standards.
Mr. Zehner asked: How can the project be made to compatible with Old Towne?
Rick Cavecche replies: Eliminate the project.
Mr. Zehner stated: No, eliminating the project would not be feasible. The project is designed to
comply with every City code requirement. The use of concrete is mandated by City code to
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November 5, 1997
Page 9
provide a 25 ft. back-up distance for vehicles. The amount of open space exceeds the minimum
code requirement.
Tim McCormack: The excessive use of concrete and the lack of landscaping makes the project
seem very harsh. It appears that very little effort have been made to soften the project with some
type of vegetation.
Robert Reilly: Although the project meets the minimum code requirements, it does not translate
to a well deigned project. The DRB is looking at this from a design standpoint of what is
aesthetically pleasing to the neighborhood and to the community. The project as proposed does
not meet that in any way, shape, or form.
Steve Prothero invited comments from the public.
Shannon Tucker: It is unfortunate that Mr. Zehner was caught in the middle during the Zone
Change of East Culver Avenue. The City has not yet fully resolve all the issues dealing with the
inherent problems of balance between historic preservation and high density/multiple family
development.
Steve McHarris: In dealing with the issue of each individual details of the project, most items
can be remedied such as changing to wood windows, wood siding, and adding landscaping, etc.
However, in looking at the bigger picture and reviewing the project on a broader sense such as
bulk and mass in relationship to not just Culver Avenue, but to the entire historic district as a
whole, the cumulative effects of all these different issues being discussed cannot be mitigated
with the number of units being proposed on this site.
Steve Prothero offered Mr. Zehner the option of either continuing the project for revisions per
the above discussion, or taking an action to make a recommendation to the Planning
Commission.
Mr. Zehner concurred with continuing the project to the November 19, 1997 meeting, in order to
re-evaluate the project based on the board's comments and suggestions.
MOTION by Rick Cavecche to continue the project to the November 19, 1997 DRB meeting.
SECOND: Steve McHarris
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack, Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November S, 1997
Page 10
(5) DRB No. 3263
North Hills Realty
2901 E. Katella Avenue
Superior Electrical Advertising
• New freestanding sign for existing office
building
• O-P (Office Professional District)
The project was presented by Randy Potts -Superior Electrical Advertising. The proposal is to
construct a new 7 ft. high freestanding sign for an existing office complex.
MOTION by Steve Prothero to approve the project subject to the conditions:
1. Corner post to be 8"x 8" in lieu of the 6"x 8" shown on plans. The base to be widen
proportionally to accommodate the additional 2" post width
2. Sign background (white) to be opaque, with illuminated (red) text.
3. Provide mow strip around base of sign.
SECOND: Rick Cavecche
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack, Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November 5, 1997
Page 11
(6) DRB No. 3264
David & Michelle Bennett
6203 E. Cliffway Drive
• New single family residence
• R-1-40 (Residential -Single Family District)
David and Michelle Bennett, owner of the property, presented the project to the DRB. The
proposal is to construct a custom designed, 2-story single family residence of approximately
6,890 sq.ft. in size (including garages) on a hill side view lot. This project is being brought to
the DRB as a condition of approval to Tract 13913.
Tim McCormack suggested adding several trees planted randomly adjacent to the building to
help soften the building, while still maintaining its view
MOTION by Rick Cavecche to approve the project, subject to the following condition:
1. Landscape and irrigation plans must be reviewed and approved by the Fire Department to
ensure compliance with City Fuel Modification requirements.
SECOND: Steve McHarris
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert
Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Board
Meeting Minutes for November S, 1997
Page 12
(7) DRB No. 3266
Vons Food & Drug
2864 N. Tustin Street
Dennis Stout
• Wall signs for an existing supermarket
within a shopping center
• C-TR (Commercial -Tustin Street
Redevelopment District)
The project was presented by Tim Pitts, Heath & Company. The proposal is to retain the
existing 5 ft. high "VONS" wall sign installed on one of the tower element on the building, and
to install a new "FOOD & DRUG" wall sign on the second tower element. The existing "Wells
Fargo" sign would be relocated to the left side of the building. The market's new name is now
"Non's Food & Drug". The increased length of the new sign cannot physically fit on one tower
element, and therefore it is being split up to fit on two tower elements.
MOTION by Rick Cavecche to approve the project as submitted.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Rick Cavecche, Tim McCormack Steve McHarris, Steve Prothero, Robert
Reilly
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED