08-08-1990 - Minutes TC ,
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CITY OF ORANGE �
MINUTE� OF A R.EGULAR MEETING
CITY TRAF�`IC �OO�MISSION
Date of Meeting: August 8, 1990
RGI�L CALL: PRESENT - Commissioners: D. Yarger, J. Fortier, N.'Hower, B. Leming
F. Sciarra
PRESENT - Staff: B. Dennis, Sgt. B. Weinstein, B. Herrick
C. Glass, R. Gardner, P. Then
ABSENT - Staff: D. Allenbach
I. Approval of Minutes: Ma,y 9, 1990
Ju�a.e 13, 1990
R��ATION: Appr�ove minutes as published bp Recorciing Secreta.ry.
MOTION - F. Sciarra
SEOOND - J. Fortier .
AYES - Unanimous
II. (JONSII�T GAI,II�IDAR ,
1. Request than an 'Adult School Crossing Guaxd' be assigned at the
intersection of Santiago Canyon R,d. and Loma. St./Cannon St.
David P. Knox
9102 Loma St.
Villa Park, CA 92667
There was no discussion on this item. Please refer to your written sta.ff
report.
R��dENDATION: DELITY the request. .
MOTION - J. Fortier
SEOOND - F. Sciaxra
AYES - Unanimous
2. Request for the installation of 'Yield For Horses' and 'No Turn On Red'
signs at the intersection of Chapman Ave. and Newport Blvd.
. Annette U'Ren
Ca.rdinal Froperty Management, Inc. �
17821 E. 17th St. , Suite 270
Tustin, CA 92680
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� Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy. Discuss'ion on this request is as follows: �'
Dawn Fondavella/4011 E. Chapman .Ave. #5? - There is a shopping center at
this intersection and when we try to cross the street the motorists
cannot see us. Additionally, if you try to use the push button to cross
you are physica.11y out in the street and its very da.n.gerous.
Bernie Dennis - When we provide a PID push bu�tton at a signal typica,lly
it is on the crosswalk side of the traffic signa.l standard with an axrow
pointing at the crosswalk. We, at a number of location in this axea,
ha.ve mounted a secondary button above the primaxy PID push button and we
are going to move these buttans to the back side of pole to keep the
equestrians from moving into the street.to utilize the buttons.
��14�ENDgTION: DII3Y the request.
MOTION - D. Yarger �
SEC�OND - B. Leming
AYES - Unanimous
III. OONSIDEEiATION IT,III►LS
A. Request for the installation of a flashing amber warning light on
Cambridge St. south of Carleton Ave.
Joyce Lindstrom
1101 E. Ca.rleton Ave.
Orange, CA 92667
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy. Discussian on this item was as fallows:
Ha.rry Leaming/1220 E. Ca,rleton - I ha:ve had discussion with staff
regarding this intersection and we've been luck not to ha.ve too many
accidents here, and one of the ways to resolve the problem with .the
intersection is to purcha.se the last house on the corner and correct the
line of sight problem. Is there any possibility for you to look into
purchasing tha.t property and changing tha.t wall?
Chairman Yar��r - Would this be samething the legal depaxtment would look
into or should this go directly to the City Council, I know it's not
� something that this Commission could work on.
Chuck Glass - If the Commission wishes they could refer this to the
Public Works department to look i�.to this issue as fax as the engineering .
and the grades and the cost factors, I don't know wha.t utilities ma,y be
out there or wha.t structures may be affected, but this type of
investigation is not really in the traffic engineering arena. and its more
of a physical construction/reconstruction.
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Bernie Dennis - We feel tha,t if we take enough right-of-way off the
westerly side of the paxcel in question we do one of two things. We
could well make it a non-conforming use (reduce the lot size); or its
difficult to talk about this kind of improvement without getting involved
in an inverse c.ondemnation. We feel tha.t it may significantly impa,ct the —
value of the residence. If the Corr�nission wishes, we could continue this
item for 30 days and bring back the drawing that indica.tes wha.t our
concerns are with the paxtial acquisition of this property.
Chairman Yarger - It seems to .me that this issue ha.s nothing to do with
the request we have so we probably should go ahead and approve the
request for the flashing light and make a second motion for a study and
the sight dista.nce and wha.t the .Public Works recommendation would be.
Commissioner Leming � I think the issue for a flashing unit to make it
safer for motorists exiting this street to give some warning to
southbound motorists on Cambridge, I think its in our jurisdiction to
make a recommendation to the City Council to do so now, and I am opposed
to recommending to Public Works or anyone else tha.t we take away
. someone's property, I don't think the CTC should get involved.
Bob Herrick, Asst. City Attorne - This Commission is not empowered to
consider condemnation of real property and the proposal to do so is not
agendized and not before you even for a recomrr�endation on the traffic
issue. The traffic issue itself ma,y come back to you with respect to
approving the concept of the line of sight, but that ha.sn't been properly
agendized and its not in front of you.
Chairman Yarger - Then my recommendation is to put it in writing on the
line of sight and submit it to the Engineering Department so they can
take the proper steps on it as its not in our juriscliction.
R�Oa1l�ATION: Tl�at are APPROVE t�e �equest for a fla.sh�� amber wa ;n
� light an Cam1bridge St.
MOTION - B. Leming
SECOND - J. Fortier
AYES - Unanimous
$.. Request for the installation of 'No Parking Anytime' restrictions on the
south side of Spring St. and on the west side of Esplanade St. along the
frontage of El Modena High School.
Walt Hess, Asst. Principa.l
E1 Modena High School �
3920 N. Spring St.
Orange, CA 92667
The oral presentation on this item is based on tk�e written staff report,
please refer to your copy. Discussion on this request was as follows:
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� Ron Walsh/3803 Sprin�St. - I ha.ve no objection to putting in no pa,rking
on the south side of the street other than the fact tha� the kids paxk �
here so they can get out of school during the day as this is a closed
campus. I do object to the north side as it would prohibit on-street
parking in front of my house.
Joe Venegas, Jr./3947 S�ring St. - I believe tha.t th� high school is only
concerning what is going on during the da,y a,nd they n�glect�to add tha,t
there is also night school and the night school people also park on tha.t
street and the available spa.ces on �pring St. is about 15 vehicles which
would be displacing the homeowners and not even to mention during the
special events (sports activities, etc.).
Commissioner Fortier - I would like to hear staff's reasons for the
recommendation to deny the request, and additionally I would like to heax
from the Police Dept. as to the reasons this request was originally
proposed. �
Chuck Glass - The recommendation is based on the original request which
was to remove all of the park,_.ng on Spring and F,spl.a.na,de, In our first
meeting and discussions with the school principal and the Police Dept.
there appear to be some other options where these extreme measures ma.y
not be n�eded; perha,ps a partial parking restriction, I would say the
Commission is still free to explore those prossiblities. The ma.tter was
held to identify and prepare some sketches tha.t show exactly what pa.rking �
restrictions we ha.ve now, how many spa.ces were avilable and there was
some question as to whether Esplanade was in the City's jurisdiction or
the County. Our research that any restriction or limitation of the
parking on Esplanade should properly be handled through the County as the
lead agency as the City boundary is the curb line, and the possibility of
installing a bus loading zone which should be initiated . through the
County. On Spring St. du.ring disucssion with the school at the last
meeting, there are appaxently some areas where the pa,rking would not
necessarily need to be restricted. on Spring but ather axeas should have
red curb or some other type of restriction, and I believe that is still
open for discussion rather than a carte blance recommendation for denial.
Officer Griffin/OPD - When we left last meeting we were moving in the
area of removing the paxking in just those centralized sections where we
need the visibility into the parking lot. We think it would work out to
restrict the paxking only during school hours and leave the parking
available to the area residents after school hours and weekends.
, R�UO�[YllATION: That We �ict perking in the a�a. of 14 parki.ng
spa.ce.s on Spring St. f r�o� 7 AM to 3 PM on 3c�hool Uays.
MOTION - J. Fortier
SEOOND - B. Leming
AYES - Unanimous
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" R�UO�'L�IDATION: Tba.t we DII� the request for No Parking on Espl.anade
ina�rrn�Ch as its not withi.n �r jurisdiction, aB.d tlzat vPe recommend t�ia.t
the sc�ool distri�t process their rec�uest for a lc�ading zo�e for buses
thr�ou�h the Countp. Ask (�xtmissioner Fortier to oonvep aur
r�mmenda.tions t� the Sch�ool D►istrict in r�spect to the modifica.tion to
heighten the fence.
MOTION - B. Leming '
SEC�OND - J. Fortier
AYES - Unanimous
C. Request to reloca,te the OCTD Bus S�OP on the north side of Chapman Ave.
west of Prospect St.
Ruben Flores �
3237 E. Ghapman Ave.
Orange, CA 92669-37�9 ' '
The oral presentation is b�.sed on the written staff report, please refer
to your copy. Discussion on this request was as follows:
Commissioner Leming - Where exactly are we moving this to and from?
Chuck Glass - The existing bus STOP is located on the north side of
Chapma.n and west of Prospect in front of the Unocal station a,n.d its right
between the driveways. There is a bus bench here as well. The Transit
District ha.s reviewed the request as well and have suggested tha,t it
should be at one of two places: the �first is in front of Duke's
Hamburgers which is loca,ted westerly of the bus STOP and the second
locaton is a near side STOP on the east side of Prospect which would be
east of the existing service station on the corner and in front of the
rather large parking area, for the shopping center.
Commissioner Fortier - I am opposed ta this type of request as its not
based an a traffic safety concern but on a persona.l preference, and I'm
afraid we'l1 have a request to move it again very soon if it impa.cts the
other property owner in an adverse manner.
Commissioner Sciarra - What is the distance from the two suggested STOF
loca,tions to the intersection?
Chucl� Glass - Its 189 ft. ea.st of the BCR, for .Alternate 1 (:near side);
and Alternate 2 would be 211 ft; west of the ECR (.far side STOP).
Commissioner Leming - Were the property owners at Alternate 1 notified of
the request �.nd its implica,tions and of today's meeting?
Chuck Glass - I know the bank was notified and the property owner of that
parcel that contains the ba.nk wa.s also notified.
Con�missioner Leming - MO�ION - I'm not in favor of mcc��ving it. Staff has
mentioned that this in.tersection is gaing to be en�ianced, I'm goin.g to
make the m�tion that we DF.�1Y the r�equest.
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Chairman Yar�er - How many trips are made by a bus going westerly on
Chapman Ave. during our peak morning hour?
�h.uck Glass - The buses axe very frequent during the week, but I don't
ha.ve any specific figures and there isn`t anyone from OCTD here today.
MOTION - B. Leming
SEC70ND - None - Motion dies.
Ruben Flores/323? E. Chapman - We get alot of people collecting in front
of the station waa�ting for the bus and a.f someone gets hit or hurt while
waiting for a bus they will want to sue me, and also one of the buses ha,s
been reax-ended and the bus bench ha.s been wiped out by a drunk-driver;
so where the the bus STOP is right now is a very bad situation.
Commissioner Sciarra - It appeaxs Mr. Flores may have a point. Putting a
bus STOP in front of Duke's would be. 211 ft. away from that intersection
which is not a favorable loca,tion so therefore I would recommend that we
go ahead and move the bus STOP location and put it in at location
Alternative 1.
Commissioner Fortier - I think the relocation into Alterna,te 1 would be a
much safer location of that bus STOP.
I��C�EhIDATION: Relc�cate t�.e OC.CD Bus S't�OP to Alternate I�aca.tion #1.
MOTZON - F. Sciarra
SEaOND - D. Yarger
AYES - Unanimous .
U. Request far the installation of STOP control devices at the intersection
of Fern St. and Mayfair Ave.
Eugene P. Brazeau
2530 E. Rose Ave.
Orange, CA 92667
The oral presentation is b�.sed on staff's written report, please refer to
your copy. Discussion on this request was as follows;
Tom Murphy/729 N. Fern - I would request tha.t you change your mind, there
axe 2-Way STOP's one block in either direction, but I believe the traffic
on that corner runs faster than normal. The people on Fern have to slow
- do�vn for tha.t intersection because there is a dip in the roa.d and there
seems to be an implied right-of�way f�r Ma.yfair traffic on wha.t I think
is a 4-way blind intersection where both sides should slow down and the
first one there should have the right-of-way. The people on Ma.yfair do
_ not slow down and they seem to think they ha,ve the right-of-way.
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Commissioner Fortier - I noticed there are ST'OP signs at Haxt and
Elmwood, is that because the cross-traffic waxra.nts it as per our
requirements? � �
Chuck Glass - It met the �vaxrants on volumes.
Commissioner Hower - Do we ha,ve any ADT's on these two streets?
Chuck Glass - No we did not take any 24-hour volume counts, however, you
can assume that the peak haur is about 10% of the ADT.
Chairman Yarger - If we put STOP signs on Fern the residents at 739 and
760 would have red curb in front of their residences and they wauld lose
paxking.
Chuek Glass - Yes, we would put in approxima,tely 30 ft. of red curb.
Commissianer Fortier - This location doesn't meet the warrants for a STOP
sign as it doesn't meet the volume or for a safety aspect, is that
correct?
"�`" Chuck Glass - Correct. I would point out tha.t we did notify the
residents adjacent to the intersection, and in our letter we do point out
to the residents the possibility of increased noise, air pollution and
the additional pa,rking restrictions.
Commissianer Fortier - I see tha.t this request daes not meet the minimum �
warrants f�r a STOP sign, so I move tha.t we .deny the request.
R�OO�IDATION: That we DENY the r�uest.
MOTION - J. Fortier
SECX)ND - N. Hower
AYES - Unanimous
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E. Request for the installation of a traffic signal at the intersection of
Crawford Canyon R,d. and Stillwater Ave.
Cathy Ma:rchesseqult
Villeurbanne Ma.ster Association
P.O. Box 19530
Irvine, CA 92713
The oral report was based on the staff's written report, please refer to
Yowr' copy. There was n.o discussion on this item.
R�iC�O�iDATIOI�: T�a.t woe BENY t�e request.
MOTION - D. Yarger
SECOND - F. Sciarra
AYES � Unanimous
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F. Request to remove existing 'No Parking .Anytime' restrictions from
Canyon View Ave. east of Chapman Ave.
Annette U'Ren
�ardinal Property Management, Inc. . -
17821 E. 17th St., Suite 270
Tustin, CA 92680
The oral presentation was based on the staff's written report, please
refer to your copy. There was no discussion on this request.
R:�U�ENDATIQN: Tha.t w�e DENY the �equ.est.
MOTION - D. Yaxger
SEOOND - J. Fortier
AYES - Unanimous , ,
G. Request for the installation of a '4-Way STOP' control device or a
traffic signal at the intersection of Gollins Ave. and Lemon St.
Rass E. Boydell �
1018 N. Lemon St.
Orange, CA 92667
The oral presentation is based on the staff'•s written report, please
refer to your copy. Discussion on this request was as follows:
Ross Boydell/1018 N. Lemon - We have deliveries going in and out of our �
loca.tion all day long. Going southbound on Leman and to make a right
turn onto Collins is no prablem. To go straight across Collins is almost
impossible and/or to make the left onto Collins is impossible. One of
the problems I see is that between Lemon 'and Glassell is Olive which is a
little cul-de-sac that runs north and south parallel with Lemon. There
is a child ca,re center on Olive and during the peak hours there are
people going east or west on Gollins into Olive and when Olive backs up
they come over to Lemon and make the left to go south and sneak through
the alley which is at the end of the cul-de-sac and come back up through
the other side, so there is a constant left-turn action going from
westbound Collins to southbound Lemon. Construction has just been
completed north of my business of 8 new major size concrete tilt-up
buildings which have not been occupied yet, an.d alot of cars wi11 show up
there. There is alot of truck traffic frcam the cold storage facility;
a.nd of course the train tends to mess us up traffic wise as well.
Chairman Yarger - Are we going to run into any trouble with this with
traffic running westerly on Collins, we have a 4-Way STOP down there
about 600 ft. from a signa,lized intersection, we will get in'to trouble
with backing traffic up into tha.t intersection?
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' Bernie Dennis - On this paxticular street at this particular loca.tion, it
would seem tha,t a STOP .sign would be absolutely inappropriate. If we're
in. the process of spending alot of money at Collins/Cambridge and
Collins/Shaffer to put in signa,ls I don't think we would want to turn
around and put ourself in the same situa,tion by putting �up a 4-way STOP
Qn the other side of Glassell. However, if a condition exists on Lemon
tha.t would warrant some type of traffic control it would seem like the
control would be a con�bina.tion of two things; first of�all the left turn �
cha.nnelization and the s�condly the signal and it wouldn't seem
appropriate to pursue one without the other. As you reca.11 there was
very little objection about the signal at Shaffer/Collins but we received
alot of objection to the channelization and necessary paxking removal.
We would not correct the accident just from, signalization. From Ross'
per pective it would enhance your ability, pedestrian wise to walk back
� and�forth across the street, historically every time we have put in a
signal r�ithout the l��t turn channelization we've actually increased the
number of accidents.
Chairman Yarger - Because of the priority list it would be a long time
for the installation and if it did go into a signa.l wha.t type would you
put in?
Bernie Dennis - It would have to be coordinated. Our CIP is eomplete for
this yeax and we would probably be looking at sometime in the 91/92
budget, which isn't really such a long time beca,use of the time necessary
for designing.
Commissioner Fortier -- I se�where STOP signs a.re not the answer but there
is alot of traffic here beca.tzse it's an axterial roa.dway and when we get
the signal in at Shaffer/Collins it will increase drama.tically. .
Bernie Dennis - Once you signalize Lemon/Collins and when you consider
tha.t Lemon is not really a bad street to travel north of Chapman, you are
going to see a rather dramatic increase of the traffic on Lemon in both
directions. �
Ross Boydell - Is it possible to do a STOP sign with a left turn pocket?
Bernie D�nnis - Left turn g�ockets on multi-lane streets with STOP signs
don`t work. How receptive would the people on Collins -be to a rather
excessive parking removal if they knew the reward was forthcoming? This
res�triction would be from 300 ft. west of Lemon from tha.t point to
Glassell.
Ross Bo�dell - I don't see any problem with that, there is a bus S�OP on �
the corner of Lemon/Collins on the north side so there rea�.ly isn't any
pa,rking from there back to Glassell. I don't think the mob�.le pa.rk or
the donut shop would have a problem with that, and I don't think the
business people would ha.ve a problem with any removal on Lemon.
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Chaix�man Yarger - 1 think we should go ahead and deny this arid go back to
staff to do a packa.ge on this with channelization and see wha.t we come up
with.
R�(�OI�+�Il�.IgTION: Tbat �e DENY the request �vith the rec�mmenda.tion t�a.t �e
c3on� back to staff to la�ok into tt;ttiis a�ea. and do a studp on. it to 9ee -
�a t we can do �or c�aan.nelizi.ng the st�eet and com� up with a solutian to
alleviate this probl.e�. And brink it bac�k in 30 days.
MOTION - D. .Yarger
SEOOND - F. Sciaxra
AYES - Unanimous
H. Request for the installation of a '3-Way STOP' control device at the
intersection of Fletcher Ave. and American Way.
Brian E. Smouse
639 W. Fletcher Ave.
Orange, CA 92665
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer
to your copy. There was n� discussion on this request.
R�OOI�t�IDgTION: Tbat we DENY t,he request.
MOTION - F. Sciarra
SEUOND - N. Hower
AYES - Unanimous
I. Review and accept the City Traffic Commission annua.l report of activities
and action in the I989/90 fisca,l year and forward it to the City Council.
Tra:ffic Engineering Division
City �f C)range
Qral presentation is based on the written staff report, pl�ase refer to
Yo�' �PY•
This report represents the issues this body has consi�lered and the
actions and recommendations we have forwarded to the City Council. The
Council, with the exception af three issues, ha,ve supported the 67
recommendations we have made to them. Of �hese three issues Council ha,s
taken opposing action on one request and has continued two items for
further study and �ill be laoked. at later. The issues we've been
consistently asked to cansider have included:
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} Driveway Vision Zones to improve line of sight for accessing properties.
No Parking For Street Sweeping Pruposes.
Installation of PID Crosswalks. r
Assigning Crossing Guards to assist crossing activities by school age
children. -
Neighborhood Paxking Permit Programs to resolve parking intrusions in
residential areas by outside users.
City `�1ide Ordinance that ha,s provided regulatiQns for the movements of
movements a.n.d vehicles and equipment and setting rules for dirt ha.uling
operations. .
R�JOO��M.END,A.TIOI3: Tbat �e gC7CEPT the report.
MOTION - D. Yarger
SECOND - F. Sciarra �
AYES - Unanimous
IV. 0�'AL P��NTATIONS
Public Participation - At the .conclusion of the meeting of items listed
on this Agenda, members of the public ma.y address the City Traffic
Commission regarding iter�s of interest to the public that are within the
subject jurisdiction of the City Traffic Commission.
None presented. _
K. Adjournment at 6:00 PM.
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