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04-11-1990 - Minutes TC I ` CITY OF ORANGE MINUTES OF A R�GULAR, MEETING CITY TRA�FIC �ISSION Date of Meeting: A�ril 11, 1990 _ ROLL CALL: PRESENT - Commissioners: D. Yaxger, N. Hower, B. Leming F. Sciara ABSENT - Commissioners: J. Fortier PRESENT - Staff B. Dennis, Sgt. Weinstein, B. Herrick C. Glass, D. Allenbach, P. Then I. Approval of February 14, 1990 Minutes � R�00��6E'NDgTION: APPROVE minutes as p�ulblished. by the R�oording Secreta,rp. No action was taken. II. OONSENT CALII�ID�R 1. Request for the installation of � four-way STCP's at the intersection of Grand St. and Maple Ave. Traffic Engineering Division City of Orange Discussion: Gommissioner Hower - Why are we discussing this if it has already been installed? Bernie Dennis - The four-way STOP at Grand/Ma.ple was installed as pa,rt of a bus rerouting program. We relocated OGTD Line 54 from Almond Ave. up via the Lemon St. pa,rking lot to Maple easbound to �Grand and southbound to Chapman Ave. One of OGTD's policies is that they, if at all possible, wish to negotiate turns in their route via some type of traffic control. In this ca.se a signal wasn't appropriate but in our opinion a four-way STOP was. The traffic ordinance allows the Traffic Division to make that kind of discretionaxy judgement and installation pursuant to approval of the Commission once it's made. Ba.sica.11y wha.t we axe asking you for today, with an understanding of why we made tha.t change, is your approval. Commissioner Hower - I see other axeas where the buses axe making turns across streets with much higher volumes without problems, I question why we really need this. Perha.ps staff can give us a run down of what the warrants axe for an all-way STOP. ' -2- CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. Bernie Dennis - We could certainly do tha.t, but this was not put in on a warrant basis. Commissioner Hower - The justifica,tion says that it meets the minimum warrants based on traffic volume ancl accident history. What are the minimum warrants? Dave Allenbach - The minimum warrants for an all-way STOP on a local street would be 100 vehicles entering the intersection from all approa.ches during the peak traffic hour; at lea,st one accident in a one year period that would be correctable by the installation of a four-way STOP, or intersection alignment and geometry alignment problems. This intersection has adequa.te sight distance from all approaches, however, we have had two right-angle accidents within the last year at this intersection. Both of these streets are local collectors and they certainly do meet the minimum vehicular number during the peak traffic � hour. Commissioner �Iower - Wha,t are our volumes there? � � Dave Allenbach - We estima,te that the approach volume is about 200 vehicles during the peak hour. Commissioner Hower - How often do we ha,ve a bus in there? Dave Allenbach - Every 20 minutes. Commissioner Hower - I might ask that if this bus route is later changed so that buses are not going through that intersection, will tha.t STOP be removed? Dave Allenbach - Yes it would. Commissioner Hower - Inasmuch as the buses axe there, the signs axe up, we ha,ve ha,d some problems and it is the recommendation of staff to approve, although it ma.y not technica,lly meet requirements tha.t the other Commissioner ha,s expressed, I would go ahead and make the recommendation to APPROVE this item. Ri����ATION: gPPROVE MOTIQN - B. Leming SEOOND - N. Hower AYES - Unanimous , _3_ CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. II. QONSIDF�EiATION IT�S A. Request to reduce the length of existing red curb markings at - 241 N. Center St. Jeri Keister 241 N. Center St. Orange, CA 92666 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Diseussion: Peggy Kirk - Our residence is south of 241 N. Center St. I am here to oppose the reduction of the red curb zone on the south side of the property which is currently 5 ft. 6 in. long, and is next to my driveway. My driveway is narrow, just wide enough for one vehicle and if the red. zone is shortened it will allow vehicles to park closer to my driveway and it will make it more difficult for me to get in and out, and its ' going to make visibility of oncoming traffic on Center St. more difficult. I believe this will increase the ha.zard of a traffic accident especially when my neighbors pa,rk their ta,ll full-size trucks in that a:rea. The reason given to shorten the red zone is to allow two vehicles to park in front of that residence, but the owners of tha.t property already park two full-size vehicles in front of their .house and, if you care to see them, I ha.ve recent photographs of their vehicles paxked in front. I recently counted 7 vehicles permanently located at tha.t address. I ask tha.t the City leave the red. zone on the south side adjacent to my property as is. Photographs were passed among the Commissioners. � Commissioner Leming - The action before us is to reduce the red curb on from a 6 ft. to a 3 ft. Now is your concern that if we did that he would get a third car parked there, or is it tha.t you ha.ve a haxd time coming out of your driveway? Peggy I�irk - It would make it more difficult for me to get in and out and it would make visibility more difficult. Chuck Glass - The request to reduce the amount of red curb it didn't specifica,lly ask for 3 ft. on the south side, tha,t was something tha.t we suggested tha.t if we were going to reduce red curb we could go that direction. We've also suggested another way to go would be to remove the entire 3 ft. of red curb from the north side of the property. However, I would suggest a little caution there beca.use tha,t's a mutual driveway serving both this resident and the resident at 247 N. Center St. � -4- GTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. Chairman Yar��._er - It's a common driveway then for two residents? Peggy Kirk - Yes it does. - Commissioner Leming - What I can't understand is tha.t the reason the request came before us was that they ha.ve been ticketed for parking in the red curb. Is there enough room to pa.rk 2 ca,rs there? Chuck Glass - There is 34 ft. The average vehicle is probably no more than 16 ft., so if they are parked correctly and not leaving alot of room then yes you can get 2 normal size vehicles in there if , you were going to park laxge trucks it would be another story. ' Cc�mmissioner Hower - Is there regular enforcement in the axea or is an `on ca.11' basis? Peggy Kirk - It's a regular patrol. RF�C'�Oh�NDATION: DENY MOTION - D. Yarger . � SEC�OND - F. Sciarra 1�YES - Unanimous &. Request for the installation of an intersection vision zone at Grove Ave. at Main St.; and Grove Ave. at Enterprise St.; and Grove Ave. at Lime St. Orange Police Dept. , Traffic Bureau City of Orange Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. There was no discussion on this item. , R��iDATION: gPP�OVE MOTION - F. Sciarra SEOOND - B. Leming �YES - Unanimous � Chuck Glass - It is possible, even with tY�e red curb up to the curb returns one could still legally maneuver a 'vehicle within tha.t curb re�urn and still be legal. Might I suggest that the Commission add to tha.t Motion that we proceed with preparing an Ordinance that would specifica.11y prohibit parking around the curb return and process tha.t through City Council. . -5- CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. R����IDATION: Add a�.other Motion on the same subject in reference to ' � Mr. Glass` �ecammenda.tions. MOTI4N - F. Sciaxra SECOND - B. Leming AYES - Unanimous ����n Ya,Tger - We are going to go to item n�ber G on the C�nsidera.tion Iteu�s. G. Request for the installation of a temporary 2-Hour time limit pa,rking . zone on the north side of the 500-600 block of W. Struck Ave. Director of General Services City of Orange Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. RD(X��[�IDATION: AP`P�OVE � MOTION - D. Yarger Commissioner Hower - I would like to include something that this be removed within 12 months, and also tha,t it extend just to the cul-de-sac but not include the cul-de-sac. That would give them room for approxima,tely 13 caxs. Chairma,n Yaxger - I will withdraw my motion, and is there any other discussion before we revi�e the motion regarding the cul-de-sac pa.rking? R�OO�II�F'.�VDATION: Acc�ept sta.ff r�ec,omm�nda.tion with a 12 month mora.torium � on this an.d it does not includ.e the cul-d�-sa.c parking ai'ea.. MOTION - D. Yarger SEC70ND - B. Leming AYES - Unanimous � �_ CTC' Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. F. Request for the impl�enta.tion of a neighborh+ood p�rking permit p�ogram far both sides of Maple gve. between P.rospect St. and Olympia Way; Olympia %ag betw�een Ya.ple Ave. and Spring Ave.; Vine Ave. frnm — Olympia Way to its �esterly terminus; Shasta St. a.nd Dunas St. Herbert A. Welch, Jr. 3446 E. Maple Ave. Qrange, CA 92669 �Staff presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Discussion: Brad Smith - We have talked between ourselves and we want to know wha.t ha.ppens if you have a neighbor visiting you' and he is parked on the street. Will we ha,ve signs to put on the cax? Will he get a ticket? . Bernie Dennis - Basically, each vehicle registered to a house within the axea is issued a permanent sticker which is to be affixed to the left rear bumper, if you ha.ve 1, 2 or 3 caxs it doesn't make any difference to us as_ long as your vehicle registration and your residence address axe the same. You're also issued, per household, 5 guest permits that if, for whatever reason you have guests, which axe placed on the inside top left side of the dash. The third permit is for a special event and you come down to the City and we will issue 25-35 which axe good only for the duration of the event. I would ca,ution you in two respects, the guest permits ha.ve to be in the dash if they aren't there our Police officers have no reason - no way of knowing tha.t vehicle belongs there or what have you, and if its not you will get a citation and it will not be withdrawn. These permits are re-issued. annually. Brad Smith - We had also discussed the possibility of making this a gated . community, and we would like to get further informatoin as to the feasibility of� this. Bernie Dennis - Before you pursue tha,t in any great detail, it is a very involved process. You ma,y end up getting what you want, and after you get it you might not want it. I would suggest, in the interest of time, that you elect a 2-3 person committee and discuss that issue with the � City Attorney, its not an easy process. Herb Welch - Shared some photographs with the Commission. About 85-95% . af the ca.rs on our streets do not belong in the neighborhood. It's unsafe and unhealthy, our area, has been�.trashed.. I am also quite concerned for our young children tha.t axe exposed to really bad stuff. u , f , ���� t CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. � Bill Adamo - I'm a resident of one of the cul-de-sacs. The way the cul-de-sac�s are built there's not enough room for parking except for your driveways. Therefore any guests we ha,ve must go out onto Ma,ple Ave. and now we don't know where they will go beca.use there is no parking ;for - anybody. This is a disaster and its not safe for children anymore. The atmosphere is terrible, we do know tha.t there ha,s been measures taken in an area up around Katella/Glassell where the same situa.tion that an apartment complex was the ca.use of this mess in an adjacent single-family residential area, this ha,s been taken ca.re of by permit parking. Geri Napoleon - Vine Ave. is not really close to the apartments we are over a block away and I had an unregistered vehicle parked in front of my house for almost a week; I came home one evening and this cax v�as driving by and stopped so close next to me I couldn't pa.rk on the street. The day workers loiter around their ca.rs when they park them on the streets, they use the street for changing their oil. Margaret Helms - I am strongly suggesting that you approve this today and also before you take into consideration items C, D and E from today's agenda. These will directly affect the parking on our streets. I can't see that we could take any more pa.rking out of the area without ha,ving our parking protected. We are now ha.ving vandalism in the area - 3 ca.rs in the last week and a ha.lf have�ha,d their windows sma.shed. I can't say if its ha,ppening by apa,rtment residents or if there is retaliation. I do know that I don't want to be another County Vine, I don't want drive-by shootings in our axea and I think we're heading for it. W. D. Bonner - �t'hey're organized over there, they ha.ve a car and two boys on bicycles that watch for the paxking control officer to drive through the neighborhood and as you leave the bicycles go over to the apa.rtments and 5 minutes later here come four ears. hTan.cy Gaisbauer - There are two things tha.t ha.ve not been mentioned tha.t I think neecl to be brought up. One is that if this goes through all those cars that axe now pa,rked in these areas will now end up on Spring Ave. We live on the corner of Spring and Olympia, we don't relish the thought of having these ca,rs in any of the areas adjacent to our home, the people are now destroying property just walking up and down - they come into our yards and look into our windows, they steal everything tha.t they can see. There is a possibility tha.t a 3-Hour paxking permit or a parking zone might be the solution to this problem due to the fact . that on gradua.tion nights/football nights the whole area, has paxking for those people tha,t are attending the stadium functions, and I would hate to see any of these people ticketed. I say put the paxking problem back in the apartment area where it originated and get the City to hold firm on the number of people living in one apartment, limit and enforce - there is the root of the whole problem. r , ! �V� C'TC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. Pat Dunmore - In order for us to paxk our three ca.rs we ha,ve put our trash cans out on the street in order to save our paxking spaces or we won't have any place to pa.rk. People axe always working on their ca,rs in _ � the street, they push them around the corner - they get a ticket from the Police and the people throw away the tickets and then they push the cax . so it looks like they ha,ve been driven, one of the biggest problems are the cars that don't even work tha.t axe just left there. The vandalism is pretty bad here and the last 6 months it has really gotten bad. Di.ane Beverl� - I'd like to summarize tha.t its not the homeowners in the . neighborhood - the whole problem is coming from the apartments and I know its not a traffic problem. I needed to go to the bank the other day and I had to call the police to see if it was safe to leave my hous� and walk across the street. That is wha.t we are ha.ving to live with. Charley Campbell - On this permit pa.rking does it apply to ca.rs that axe parked in the driveway? Bernie Dennis - No they are not. If you axe on the street you ha,ve to ha,ve a permit, either� a residents deca.l or a visitor permit. Commissioner Leming - Just for clarifica.tion if we were to approve this and go on to the City Council for their approval next week, when would actual enforcement take place? Bernie Dennis - Two weeks after Council approval we can get the logistics in place - i.e. , signs installed, permanent and visitor permits available. As far as police enforcement perhaps Sgt. Weinstein can address this issue. Sgt. Weinstein - Our normal policy is tha.t we do give a grace period so people become aware of wha.t the signs mean, what they say and what the enforcement is all about - this also assists us with prosecution and litigation as well. So we would probably want to ha,ve a 2 week grace period where the signs would be bagged unless the Traffic Engineer has some different feelings on that? Bernie Dennis - I suggest that wha.t we do is install and don't cite for two weeks, it gives everyone a chance to get tuned in. It gives the illegal pa,rk�rs to discover tha.t its no longer permissible to pa,rk here and also it reminds the residents tha.t they ha.d better get their permits. r r _g_ � CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. r One ed.itorial comment if I ma,y. I believe tha,t several people who spoke s today indica.ted. tha,t we're trying to solve a non-traffic problem with a � traffic control measures. We would hope that in the long-term, perha,ps � in the short-term, tha.t the ca,use of your problem will go away. We would - also hope that when tha,t happens you're right back in here wanting :to get out of this program. Beca,use, although it seems like an excellent way at this point in time to resolve a specific issue, there axe very definately some problems associated. with this and those problems are your guests, your family getting citations. There is a convenience factor involved you have to come down here once a year, you have to be here initially with your ca.r registrations to get your permits. So let's hope that if this is approved by the Commission and the City Council, it is indeed. a shart-term situa.tion. That's the way we would like to see it and I think you would too. Commissioner Hower - Could this be set up as a temporary program, so tha.t when the real problems are solved it would automa,tica.11y be discontinued? Bernie Dennis - Whatever the Commission wishes. Commissioner Leming - My concern would be not knowing when that condition was cleared up permanently. I think we should leave it as a permanent program and let the homeowner's �come and tell us when the problem is resolved. Bernie Dennis - I believe Commissioner Hower is suggesting tha.t perha.ps there should be an informal review of the program, which we would ha.ve no problem with and obviously there would be no action taken without ha.ving a full hearing. We can do tha.t and if the problem solves itself one way or the other we would be the first to know, but an annual review with the understanding of no action without notification of the residents, we have no problem with tha,t. eommissioner Leming - On property that is transferred during the program, is there any system set up where new property owners are automa.tic. Their cars may not be registered. at tha,t address, how do you handle the transfer of property, axe you putting it on the property owner's to notify their prospective buyers? Bernie Dennis - Most people when they axe buying a home axe aware of this. There are always those who, for some reason, don't know wha.t the signs means or the seller ha.s failed to advise them of wha,tever the situa.tion is. Unfortunately they generally find out tha.t there is a permit program right after they get their first citation, but again in defense of the police officers, they have no way of knowing that. They ha.ve no way of knowing when they moved in, if they're trying to circwmvent the program or what. Generally, it is incumbent upon the seller to advise them accordingly. r -la � CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. Margaret Helms - Will this decrease some of the time it will take to have some of these caxs towed away? Sgt. Weinstein - The towing laws tha.t we enforce, prima.rily the 72 hour violation, and tha.t's a OMC ordinace on the street for over ?2 hours after we have maxked it will be towed of r,ourse with limited manpower and resources and a city of 25 square miles we are sometimes a day or two behind and as often as not we could be a week behind. We are working these continua,lly, we do try especially in this axea to get in there as much as possible, but as far as the permit parking goes it ha.s no effect on the towing of vehicles. We basica.11y tow under the authority of the CVC section that refers to vehicles pa.rked on a street unregistered for over a year, if they are out of registration for over a yeax we will tow them immediately, if they axe obviously abandoned, missing required parts we can tow them immediately, other tha.n tha.t we ha,ve the 3 day ordinance. Bernie Dennis - Keep in mind tha:t we gave some very serious thought to a tow-away provision when we instituted this program several years ago and we elected not to do it, for the benefit of the residents. I can assure you tha.t at some point in time you or anybody in the program will forget to put ,your permit on your dash or ha,ve your guest do it, its one thing to pay a f ine - its another thing to chase the wrecker down the street trying to retrieve your cax. What you will find is that during the initial course of the program there will be vehicles towed away and to a large degree they will be abandoned vehicles. Margaret Helms - The schools ha,ve grad night at Kelly Stadium and as residents we have always been supportive of them parking on our streets for their events, is there any type of posting that you could do tha.t would allow parking in the neighborhood for these events? Bernie Dennis - Do you really want to do tha.t? This program doesn't work well an a 'now you do - now you don't' basis. If the Commission feels that you have a problem and that problem involves implementing this kind of a program and we install the signs it should be in effect. We do, however, ha,ve a proviso for this that we would prefer not to use beca,use simply the signing/posting looses its effect. That proviso very simply is that you can request, again by petition, tha.t the signs be `bagged' or not enforced, the other ha.lf of tha.t is tha.t if you ha.ve something very big going on - notify the Police Dept. and they � elect not to enforce in that area it is totally at their discretion. In regard to the school parking the one thing tha.t I don't think tha,t you want to do is to somebody who is not familiar with the neighborhood to encourage them to park on Friday night and have them get a ticket on Saturday night, this is the problem with that kind of a thing. r -11- � CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. Brad Smith - Will these be bilingua.l signs? Bernie Dennis - Absolutely not. Commissioner Hower - My ma,jor concern is that we are just trying to treat a symptom of a much larger problem and we are solving neither the symptom `nor the problem itself, and until the City faces up and solves tha.t larger problem we're just going to be transferring this symptom to other areas and we're not going to solve it this way. Commissioner Sciarra -- I kind of agree but I think we are forcing it back into the apartment axea. Commissioner Leming - I think it is just �a symptom of a larger problem but the reality is we need to do something to relieve the short-term problem and I think the only logical thing to do is to go ahead and approve the implementation of a paxking permit program, and I will go and make that as a Motion. � Commissioner Hower - Can we amend tha.t to ha,ve a review in 12 months? Commissioner Leming - Certainly,. as long as no action is taken without the notification of the homeowners. If the review comes back and says the problem is gone I would still want to hear from the homeowners if we are going to remove it. I ha,ve no problem with tha.t amendment. REIOO�IDATION: APP�VE PaY'king Permi.t P�ram for the streets in. questian as reoommended by the Tra.ffic Engineeri.ng staff, and include a one-year re�riew but tl�at no action �u.ld be taken by this Co�mission witho�at a. gublic hearing. MOTION - B, Leming SEC70ND - F. Sciarra AYES - Unanimous Chairman Yarger - I would reGommend tha,t you, as a group, come to the City Council meeting to let them know of your concerns in the neighborhood. Ma.yor Smith - Good. afternoon ladies and gentlemen we'l1 put the hearing on the pa.rking on the evening session which we thought would be best because people often like to attend and observe how we do things. This will be under the Reports section on the 7 PM Agenda next Tuesday night, April 17, 1990. Thank you for attending this meeting today. � -12- ' CI`C Mi.tlLttes 4/11/90 - Cor1t'd. D. R�quest for the installation of 'No Stopping Anytime - Tow Away' restrictions on both sides of Prospect St. between Chapman Ave. and Spring Ave. Traffic Engin�ering Division City of Orange Staff presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your capy. Di�cussion: W. D. Bonner - I just wanted to tie this to our permit pa,rking 'tha.t it be in p lace be fore the other paxking is removed, otherwise we are going to be �looded. We would like some of those street sweeping signs on Maple pleas.e. Gale Beverly - When you put no pa,rking on Prospect St. I'm not going to ha.ve anywhere for my guests to pa,rk. I don't park out there, my brother-in-law pa.rked out there one time and they shot out the windows of his Mercedes. I think its inevitable tha.t there's going to be no parking on Prospect is that wh.at I heaxd from staff? � Chuck Glass - Yes at least in certain areas, you're at 170 Prospect is that right? In that area, there is a minimum of no pa,rking area that we waul.d ne�cl to put in left-turn pockets at Spring and it would leave us with no• left-turn lanes and merely � lanes in each direction between that axea and where the pockets begin for Chapman. Now as far as I'm concerned there would probably be no reason to change anyting at the south end, so in answer to your question wha.tever parking is in your axea could rema.in. � Gale Beverly - I would suggest that if you axe going to restrict the parking that you put up those signs for all of Prospect St. to Spring Ave. at the same time that you implement the permit only parking. All these cars certainly create a problem and there's a crime problem as a result of the people. It's not a traffic problem but its from some of those a,pa.rtment rent to 20 people. There axe sorr� people tha.t live there that have to put a sign on their door 'No Vacancy' and I think in handling traffic problems which is the symptom you can also recommend to the City that �hey enforce the code. laws pertaining to how many people can live there, the fire laws maybe even the criminal laws beca.use they come ri�ht up on my property any more and ha.ve :stolen a radio out of a car paxked on my property. There axe alot of drunks out there and others loitering. A week or so ago when this was all going on I went outside and was monitoring their activity and one of them came at me and he didn't batter me but ha.d taken off his belt and I walked him, at the Y -13- , CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont�d. point of a gun, down to where the Police were and he went to jail. But I don't want to live like that, these other people don't want to live like that, this is not a nice place to live anymore and putting no paxking signs is nice but its putting a band-aid on the problem, so if you can - use your influence as a Commission to encourage the depa.rtments tha.t are necessary and the police can't do it, we have only one cod.e enforcement of f icer and she can't go out there a 4 A.M. and ask how many people are living there - but I think a Task Force of some kind can do it. Commissioner Leming - Your property is on the west side of .Prospect between Montessori school and the apartments, is tha.t correct? Gale Beverl - Not the apartments tha.t are in question, the senior citizens are on the south side of ine. Commissioner Leming - Do you use the on-street parking in front of your hame? Gale Bever� - I don't but some of my guests do. Commissioner Leming - Since we've reco�nended the permit paxking program in the neighborhood those people are going to look for other paxking spaces. � Bernie Dennis - Are you anticipating staxting up the school again? GaTe Beverly - No. Brad Smith - We axe opposed to the pa.rking being taken away on Prospect until thP permit parking program is in effect. Commissioner Leming - So wha.tever we decide to do on Prospect and Spring will ha,ve to be done concurrent with the permit paxking program, they would ha.ve to work with each other or it will ca.use more troubles. Chairman Yarger - Yes, I think coordina.ting the two should not be a problem. Chuck Glass - If the parking was to be removed. from Prospect it would definately be after the permit parking program was in place and operational. If the permit pa.rking program is approved by Council the space on��Prospect while not fully utilized all the time at present you can almost expect will be pa,rked solid all the time. _l,c� x GTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. Diane Beverly - .Prospect is pa.rked solid, they come in as late at 2 AM and they leave as early as 4:30 AM, so there is parking on Prospect now I guess they can't find room over in the residences. I really don't want red in front of my house, I'd like a loa,ding zone in front and tha.t would - keep the overnight pa,rkers away. � Bernie Dennis - A loa,ding zone isn't applica,ble after 5 PM. Ghuck Glass - If the minimum parking restriction is put in with the signalization and left turn pocket it would encompa.ss this axea. Ma.rgaret Helms - Now we're forcing the parking axound the corner onto Spring Ave. which puts all the paxking in front of the elementary school. Maybe extend it up through Spring down to at least Swidler. Chuck Glass - I would ha,ve no problem with the Commission considering today the extension of No Parking on the south side of Spring up to Olympia Way, however, if you're going to put it on the north side in front of the school or on the other Prospect in front of the school I think we would ha,ve to discuss it with the school first. Chairman Yarger - If you go up to Olympia it's not tha.t much further up to Swidler is it? Chuck �lass - About 3 cax lengths. Chairman Yarger - Does the school have any problem with enough on-site parking for their people on Spring Ave.? Bernie Dennis - No, the elementary school doesn't - the high school on to the east does. Most of the non-school oriented parking f4r Prospect Elementary School actually occurs up to the north axound the athletic field, but we feel Spring would be appropriate and it could go up to Olympia. The one thing we can't do is to move it into a.nother area ' without ha,ving noticed the people. � Chuck Glass - Staff did talk to the school Principal relative to the issues of tod.ay and the principal indicated there was no problem with the removal of pa,rking on Spring, however, they would ha.ve a problem if parking removal were effected an Prospect north of Spring. Commissioner Leming - If we approve this item I assume items C and E would be unnecessaxy. If we don't do something along Spring all those property owners tha.t back up to Vine they will just be moving the problem over to tha.t street. , -15- CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. Bill Gaisbiaur - Parking as far as from Prospect east and ha,ving it stop at Olmypia ma,y I suggest that rather than ha,ving it stop at Olympia that ma.ybe only 2 cars could park there or 3 and then there is a driveway where the buses go into the paxking lot for high school functions. By alleviating that parking there also it would make it easier and alot less dangerous for buses to go in and out of the bus paxking lot. Bill Adamo - Just south of Ma.ple on the east side of Prospect there is a sma.11 spot tha.t is red right now, tha,t ha.s been a tremendous help in trying to get out of Ma,ple and not being hit by an on-coming cax. It would be better if tha.t whole side was stopped from paxking. Robin Mathews - Are the people from the apartments ever cited for Jaywalking across Prospect? They are constantly walking across and tha,t is why you eannot pull out. Can we also think of a crosswalk there or something, its impossible. . Bernie Dennis - Last night at the City Cauncil meeting a crosswalk installation across Prospect on the north side of Maple was approved. They approved the additional lighting on the east side of Prospect and they approved, dependent upon wha.t ha.ppened tod.ay, some vision zones on . the west side of the street at Maple and Vine, and they also approved the installation of some 'No Jaywalking' signs. R��ClOMh�[iIDATION: APP�DVE the ori�na 1 request and egtend it fra� Pt�aspect easterly on both sides of Spring Ave. to the drive�a.y adjacent to the schoc�l property. MOTION - D. Yarger SEOOND - B. Leming AYES - Unanimous C. Request for the installation of 'No Paxking Monday. 7-11 AM' for street sweeping purposes on both sides of the 100 block of N. Prospect St. Diane Beverly 170 N. Prospect St. Orange, CA 92669 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. D�.scussion: Chairman Yarger - This request is superceded by the pa.rking permit program and the No Stopping Anytime restrictions. -16- ' CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. R���E�1IDATION: DII�1Y MOTION - D. Yar�er SEOOND - B. Leming - AYES - Unanimous E. Request for the installation of 'No Parking Monday 7-11 AM' for street sweeping purposes on both sides of Prospe�t St. from Chapman Ave. northerly to Spring Ave., and on both sides of Spring Ave. from Prospect St. easterly to Swidler St. Traffic Engineering Division � City of Orange Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to �our copy. Discussion: Chairman Yarger - This request is superceded by the permit parking program and the No Stopping Anytime issue. R�OO��TDgTION: DII�IYY MOTION - D. Yaxger - SEC;�ND - F. Sciarra � AYES - Unanimous H. Oral Presentations - None I. Adjournment was at 5:05 PM. Next regular meeting is May 9, 1990. �