11-06-2002 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
Wednesday, November 6, 2002
Committee Members Present:
Staff in Attendance:
Committee Member Absent:
Jon Califf
Leonard Filner (Vice Chair)
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett (Chair)
Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
Jeffry Rice, Planning Manager
Sharon Penttila, Recording Secretary
Mark Paone
Administrative Session - 4:30 P.M.
The committee met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at approximately 7:05 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 PM
REVIEW OF MINUTES:
A motion was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the October 16, 2002 minutes
subject to the following corrections:
DRC No. 3691 -George Adams, Page 2, paragraph 4, sentence 1 amended as follows:
Committee Member Filner asked which areas on the plan was were sod and which area was
seed-mix, and what the seed-mix is.
DRC #3783 -Bruce and Teri Sneller, Page 4, paragraph 1, sentence 1 amended as follows:
Committee Member Craig Wheeler ' a ~' ~ +'~~ °ct due to a .,.,::1':e* ~f :nt~r°st
excused himself due to potential conflict on the item).
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 2
REVIEW OF MINUTES: (Continued)
DRC #3787 -Toyota of Orange, Page 5, paragraph 4, sentence 1 amended as follows:
Committee Member Wheeler asked if the color pattern ~ r *'~° ~~~~~~~ and the height of the
canopy will be the same as the existing canopy, as shown in the pictures.
AYES: Jon Califf, Leonard Filner, Joe Woollett, Craig Wheeler
SECOND:Craig Wheeler
AYES:Jon Califf, Leonard Filner, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:Mark Paone
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
Review and approval of the October 2, 2002 minutes was deferred to the November 20, 2002
meeting.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 3
1. DRC No. 3745-02 -SHELL GAS STATION
Construction of a new gas station with a 176 sq. ft. employee kiosk, a 5,952 sq. ft.
canopy, and the closure of two driveways at the northwest corner of of Lincoln Avenue
and Glassell Street
105 West Lincoln Avenue
Staff Contact: Mario Chavez-Marquez, Assistant Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Andrew Paszeterko, 2055 N. Alvarado Street, Los Angeles, architect for the project. He
explained that the proposal is for aself--serve gas station with no other auxiliary business, such as
a market or car wash. The architecture is very simple consisting of a single canopy. The
proponent of the project is a small oil company who has about 100 gas stations. They had no
problem modifying the structure to accommodate the image the City wanted. The canopy will
have a clay the roof with stucco below. They have increased the landscaping area per City's
request.
The meeting was opened for public comments (None)
Committee Member Craig Wheeler was curious about the area shown in the data table as far as
the canopy and kiosk, they seemed to be different from the calculations in the drawings. Mr.
Paszeterko indicated the figures on the plans were the correct ones.
Mr. Pazeterko clarified that the lettering on the building will only say "Cashier". There will be
no entrance into the building, it is only a kiosk with secured doors, no food will be sold and there
will be one unisex toilet.
Committee Member Leonard Filner questioned the tree selection along the perimeter of the
property. The one chosen, the liquid amber, is notorious for surface roots and damaging curbs.
He proposed two options for the landscape architect, either plant the trees with root barriers or
change the species to something else. Howard Morris suggested using linear root barriers and
warned the applicant about the fruit drop from this particular tree.
Committee Chair Joe Woollett explained that the state rule requires the advertised price be
placed on each street. The City does not consider those state mandated displays as a sign.
Mr. Paszterko indicated that they would like to have the monument sign without any
embellishment or message. They would just have the sign with the Shell logo on the corner and
the two small price signs on each street. The words "Snack Shop" will not be on the monument
sign; instead it will be a blank panel with an address.
Mr. Paszterko explained that the lighting would be freestanding, with two-feet concrete pedestals
and 14-foot poles with one or two rectangular heads. They can provide shielding from light
spillage onto the neighboring residential property.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 4
1. DRC No. 3745-02 -SHELL GAS STATION (Continued
Mario Chavez-Marquez, Assistant Planner, clarified that six 24" tree boxes were required and
the rest would be 15 gallon.
A motion was made by Committee Member Leonard Filner to recommend approval to the
Planning Commission with the following conditions:
1. The Liquidambar trees be planted with linear root barriers extending along the curb edge and
the property line, each a minimum of 4' from the center of the trunk of the tree in each
direction or, as an option, change the tree species at the approval of staff.
2. The price signs will be maintained as shown on the plan and the monument sign will be
reduced to reflect only the logo with the address in the panel below without the pricing
information.
3. The lighting shall be shielded from the residential properties.
Adopted with staff recommendations which include the minimum box size and the pathway on
the diagonal. Applicant is to submit final landscape and irrigation plans to staff for review with
the approved submittal notes.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Jon Califf, Leonard Filner, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mark Paone
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 5
2. DRC No. 3747-02 -FIELDSTONE COMMUNITIES, INC.
Construction of a new 24 dwelling unit residential development.
South side of Heim Avenue 300 feet east of Canal Street
Staff Contact: Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Continued from 10-02-2002 meeting)
Pastor Martin, from St. Paul's Church, appreciated the opportunity to say the church is totally in
favor of this project.
David Greminger, from Fieldstone Communities, explained the changes that have been made to
the plans over the last month. The applicant has tried to address the concerns with the outside
edges and the massing of the blank wall by undulating the setback as much as they could without
changing the overall site plan. They were more successful on the south edge by getting some
variation between the homes and they have done as much as they can on the west but because of
the site design, they have less flexibility. They have made some landscaping changes. Starting at
the entry, all the trees have been upsized per the Committee's recommendation and they have
adjusted the palate front of the trees to meet with City specifications. They have increased the
plant palate on the west edge by adding some specimens that will be larger and denser in size to
help with the screening. They addressed the architectural concerns by addressing all the roofs
and they have made sure that the three elevations per plan all have unique roofs. They have
addressed some of the large spaces on the sides and rears to break those up as much as possible.
They have also looked at the entry, which faces out to Heim and proposed to plot two of their
nicer elevations from a side perspective. Any exterior surface that is visible from the outside
will get enhanced elevation features.
Committee Member Craig Wheeler had a question regarding the smaller gables on the sides. He
thought they were there only when the enhancement or pop-out was there and thought the
enhancements were being done everywhere and not just those visible from the street. Mr.
Greminger explained that the roof enhancements will be there and the intention is to have the
changes in the roof as part of their standard. Committee Member Craig Wheeler confirmed that
everywhere they are showing a subordinate gable on the roof plan, there will actually be a pop-
out.
Mr. Greminger explained that the previous plan for the property was a 5.7 acre development but
they are only looking at developing 3.09 acres. The previous plan had 49 units and this one has
24 units and the average lot size is larger. The density is now less with a 20' garage setback and
the rear yard is deeper. It is less of an impact to the overall neighborhood.
Committee Chair Joe Woollett confirmed that the typical building separation is ten feet with a
fence in between. He also requested that the documents reflect the verbal statements being made
tonight because it will be needed when the applicant goes to the next step.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 6
2. DRC No. 3747-02 -FIELDSTONE COMMUNITIES, INC. (Continued
Mr. Patrick Edinger, of Edinger Architect, explained that Fieldstone has directed them to detach
from the development look by decreasing roof and building massing. The most recent revision
they have made was making no roof the same out of the six elevations. Also the side elevations
have an element of articulation. They have tried to be more lavish on the materials that they are
using.
Committee Member Leonard Filner stated that the biggest question the committee had is along
the south side in comparing the site plan to the elevation. He wanted to know if trees were being
added because it appears all the trees shown on the plan are existing. He is told nothing has been
added along the mall side. He wanted to know how much had the elevation been embellished as
far as showing the size of the actual trees. He is concerned that they are heavily pruned and not
as broad as shown in the elevation. Mr. Greminger explained that there is a planter there and the
shrub area is a bit embellished on the plans. They do have plans to work with the Mall to come
into some type of agreement to embellish that area.
Chuck Lau, Associate Planner, confirmed that if a project is approved for 14 trees and eventually
only 8 remain, the City could go back to the original plans and ask the applicant to replace those.
Committee Member Leonard Filner asked the applicant if they could work out an agreement with
the Mall to include that as part of the HOA and would that be something they would be willing
to do. Mr. Greminger replied that would be something that would come into the negotiation
between them and the Mall. Mr. Lau explained that the applicant cannot guarantee that the Mall
will agree to certain stipulations. Commission Member Leonard Filner had two concerns, one
maintaining the quantity that is existing for the length of the project plus a way of getting the
trees pruned larger and letting them grow.
Committee Member Craig Wheeler asked if there was a chance of adding more trees on the
residential property. He was told the homeowners like to do their own landscaping.
Mr. Rice said staff could have a discussion with Mall management regarding tree maintenance
practices.
Committee Member Leonard Filner was fine with the species of trees but wanted to condition the
quantity and ensure that 40% of the trees be 36"blocks and be randomly placed.
Committee Chair Joe Woollett stated that the applicant had been extremely responsive to the
DRC's comments and the community around them.
Committee Member Leonard Filner agreed by saying the architecture before them now was a big
difference compared to the last meeting. It's a nice project, especially on the west side.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 7
2. DRC No. 3747-02 -FIELDSTONE COMMUNITIES, INC. (Continued)
A motion was made by Committee Member Leonard Filner to recommend approval to the
Planning Commission with the following conditions:
I. The quantity of trees along the west side shall consist of 22 total trees of which 40%, or 9
trees, shall be 36" box minimum randomly placed along that elevation.
2. The final landscaping and irrigation plans shall be submitted to staff for approval with the
required inspection notes and adopt staff recommendations as part of that condition.
SECOND: Jon Califf
AYES: Jon Califf, Leonard Filner, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Mark Paone
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 8
3. DRC No. 3784 -TONY & LETICIA TRABUCCO
Renovation and expansion of an existing 1914 Bungalow residence in Old Towne.
450 S. Orange Street (Old Towne Historic District)
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Tony Trabucco, owner/applicant, explained that the front porch was enclosed in the late 1940's,
early 50's and the kitchen was added to the back of the house. They are proposing to restore the
porch as close as possible to the drawings that they have from the people who lived there since
1936. No photographs were available. They would also like to make the kitchen larger and take
advantage of the attic space by building out the dormers and adding to the back as well above the
kitchen. The water heater is currently in the basement and even though there is currently a floor
furnace, he would like to install a new one.
Janet Crenshaw wanted to know how to get into the attic. She is told that currently there is a
hatch above the bathroom which would require building an interior stairwell.
Jeff Frankel was not opposed to the reconstruction of the porch but he wanted to know about the
evidence of the pillars. The applicant explained that there are remains of the pillars that were
jack hammered out and both the children that lived there have written documentation of the four
posts. He is also told that the entrance has always been off center because of a bearing wall
which runs right down the center of the house. Mr. Frankel's others concerns were the size of
the dormers which are inconsistent with the craftsman design and the pitch of the dormer which
should be smaller with a steeper pitch. It also looked like there was a flat roof behind the
existing front gable which would affect the streetscape as it compares to the rest of the
bungalows in the neighborhood. He also stated that the Historic building codes can supersede
the UCB. The scaling and massing of the dormers really affect the whole front. He is assured
that the applicant is trying to retain the garage by applying for a variance. He also noticed on the
plans that the line of demarcation from the new to the old is incorrect, making the addition not as
big as it looks. He found the FAR ratio between the existing and the new a little high.
Committee Member Craig Wheeler stated that the only line of demarcation is on the south
elevation and everything is on the same plane, including the roof. He is confused about the rear
porch, whether it will be centered or offset. He thinks there has been some changes made on the
floor plan since the last time the area was updated because he came up with a 100 square foot
larger area on the second floor than what is shown. The second floor would end up with 1,023
square feet and he thinks it will have to be cut down some and that would help cut down on the
size of the dormers. He also noted that the section of the dormers don't work out to 2 and 12 but
1 %, in which case more pitch would be needed. He would like to see some indication on the
drawings that the exterior siding, trim, foundation wall, and texture will all match the existing
structure. He is told the furnace would be either in the basement or crawlspace but not outside.
His biggest concern is the dormers, the front porch is wonderful but the dormers are not
appropriate. He also suggested changing the pitch of the gable.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 6, 2002
Page 9
3. DRC No. 3784 -TONY & LETICIA TRABUCCO (Continued
Committee Member Jon Califf felt that since it isn't that tall of a house and the size of the house
does not allow the volume which is needed, perhaps the other type of dormer could be utilized.
Committee Member Craig Wheeler felt strongly that a line of demarcation should be made
between the original roof and the addition.
A motion was made by Committee Member Jon Califf to continue the project.
SECOND:Joe Woollett
AYES:Jon Califf, Leonard Filner, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:Mark Paone
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
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