10-18-2000 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
for Wednesday, October 18, 2000
Committee Members Present: Joe Woollett (Vice-Chair)
Mark Paone
Susan Secoy (Chair)
Staff in Attendance: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
Committee Member Absent: Alice Angus
Leonard Filner
Administrative Session - 4:30 P.M.
The board met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 p.m. The meeting adjourned at
approximately 8:30 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 PM
REVIEW OF MINUTES:
The review and approval of the September 13, 2000 and the October 4, 2000 minutes were
deferred to the November 8, 2000 meeting.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 2
DRC No. 3558 - HORTUS NURSERY
Conversion of an existing used car sales, automotive body shop and salvage yard
facility into a retail plant nursery in Old Towne. Project also includes the demolition of
subsequent additions that were made to the original buildings.
109 N. Atchison Street (Contributing Structure)
403 W. Chapman Avenue (Non-Contributing Structure)
134 N. Cypress Street (Non-Contributing Structure)
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
The project was presented by Gary Jones, Architect. The proposal is to establish a retail plant
nursery at this location by adding a new perimeter wall, and by removing some of the existing
metal shed coverings that are not part of any original contributing structure. Also included is a
new trellis walkway to create an enclosed garden feel. The perimeter wall has been design to
enhance and maintain the mission revival style of the buildings, and it would be heavily planted
to help soften its appearance. The second phase of the project includes a new retail store
building along Cypress Street.
The meeting was opened for public comments:
Robert Imboden asked if there are elevation drawings of what is being proposed for the existing
historic structure? He would like to see a more detailed description before the demolition of the
metal covering. The thing that is nice about Orange is that it is a pedestrian community. It
would be great if the rear parking lot area could somehow be opened up, so that it isn't just an
automobile access. He is also concerned that the elevations may be overly ornate. Overall,
the community is very excited about this project
Gary Jones stated there is only a front elevation drawing, as they have no plans to change
anything structurally. All restoration work will be carried-out strictly in accordance with the
City's adopted guidelines and standards for this area. He agreed that the elevations are rather
fussy" because it is still at a conceptual stage. This will be further refined as part of the
process. As for the idea of further opening up the site, there are some security issues to
consider, but otherwise they would have no objection.
Susan Secoy would like to see even more landscaping along the perimeter wall than what is
being shown on plan. Perhaps some type of layer effect would be nice.
Joe Woollett is concerned with how the wall meets with the building. This can be a difficult joint
to have, unless it is handled properly. This is a very important detail.
Mark Paone stated that the new business would be an asset to the community, and he
appreciates the concept drawings that are being presented. There are some concerns,
however, with the architectural transition from the Depot - to this project - to the adjoining
Denman building. This still needs to be worked out in more detail. Perhaps some type of a
strong "green" breaking point (i.e. hedge) can be utilized to help soften the transition between
the different architectural styles. The next step will be submit exterior finish material samples
and color palette.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 3
DRC No. 3558 - HORTUS NURSERY (Continued)
Susan Secoy expressed her support of the project. Are there any thoughts given to exterior
lighting? Signage may be submitted separately, or included with the architectural review.
MOTION was made by Mark Paone to recommend approval of the project to the Planning
Commission with the following conditions:
1. Submit final site and building elevation plans to DRC for approval. Final plans to include
exterior finish material sample and color palette. (Signage may be submitted separately, or
included with the architectural review)
2. Submit final landscape plans to DRC for approval. Final plans to include all planter areas
for permanent landscaping.
3. At the time of demolition of the non-contributing metal shed coverings, the work shall be
inspected by City Planning staff and the Design Review Committee to determine if
additional improvements are needed.
The recommendation for approval is based on the finding that the proposed work conforms to
the standards and design criteria referenced and recommended by the Design Review
Committee. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and
Guidelines. The proposed work is compatible with, and therefore will not adversely affect the
use and design of existing buildings within Old Towne. The proposed work is consistent with
the design intent of the Santa Fe Depot Area Specific Plan
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 4
2. DRC No. 3572 -FIELDSTONE COMMUNITIES
Review of preliminary landscape and perimeter wall/fencing plans for a new 88 lot single
family residential subdivision
Tentative Tract Map 15750, North of Santiago Canyon Road, South of Maybury Avenue,
and East of Cannon Street
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
The project was presented by Philip Bettencourt -Project Consultant, Frank RadMacher -
Landscape Architect, Chris Weber - Hunsaker & Associates, Inc., and Dave Otis -Fire Safe
Planning Solution. Fieldstone Communities, Inc. is proposing the development of
approximately 109 acres with 188 single-family homes. The project includes the dedication of 3
acres for a public park, regional recreational trails along Santiago Canyon Road and Santiago
Creek, and approximately 40 acres of permanent open space along Santiago Creek. Access to
the project is via a gated entrance off of Santiago Canyon Road and private interior streets. A
draft EIR is being prepared and should be ready by November.
The meeting was opened for public comments: (None)
Mark Paone stated that the DRC is of the understanding that the applicant is seeking directions
tonight, and not an approval? (Yes) The applicant has done a great job with the plant palette,
particularly with the selection of the London Plane trees. The applicants are commended for
providing street trees within the tract. One of the challenges in dealing with street trees is how
they are being spaced (regularly or irregular?). For example, there is a good rhythm of tree
spacing in some areas, and in some other areas it breaks down. Perhaps 2 trees can be used
in front of each of the larger size lots to maintain that same rhythm through out. In addition, the
submittal should include site sections to show the minimum and maximum slope conditions of
perimeter landscape areas. The applicant should also submit detail plans of the tenant
directory/telephone box structure. These items should be addressed in a revised plan for
submittal back to the DRC for a recommendation to the Planning Commission.
MOTION was made by Susan Secoy to continue the project based on the above discussion.
SECOND: Mark Paone
AYES: Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 5
3. DRC No. 3582 - REZA ZOLFAGHARI
New custom single family residence at Prospect Hills
6127 E. Cliffway Drive
DRC Action: Final Determination
Continued from 9-20-00 & 10-04-00 meeting)
The revised project was presented by the architect Ardeshir (Arthur) Bahar. The civil
engineering plans included a site section drawing that showed a proposed fill for the down slope
to create a larger pad area, in lieu of a retaining wall. The fill would be done per the
recommendations and under the supervision of a soils engineer.
The DRC felt that this is a more effective solution than having a 5 to 6 ft. high retaining wall
and/or cantilevering out the edge of slope.
MOTION was made Susan Secoy to approve the project as submitted.
SECOND: Mark Paone
AYES: Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 6
4. DRC No. 3583 - METRICOM/WFI
Wireless communication antennas installed on an existing commercial building
1815 E. Heim Avenue
DRC Action: Final Determination
Continued 9/20/00 & 10/04/00 meeting)
The project was presented by Wendy Novak with Compass Telecom, and RF Engineers Norm
McCloud and Tom Hammel. They have studied the three alternatives; 1) Install the antennas in
front of the mansard roof and painted to match; 2) Same as #1 above, but with a dormer
element to screen the antennas; and 3) Install the antennas above of the parapet roof (requires
approval of a conditional use permit by the Planning Commission). They have looked at adding
on to the existing mono-pole, but later determined that it cannot be done. They have come full
circle and have exhausted all feasible options.
Mark Paone discussed the reasons why the antennas cannot be installed horizontally, or
behind the parapet roof.
Susan Secoy asked what about the existing Ford sign on the adjacent property?
Wendy Novak replied that it would not be high enough to provide adequate signals.
Mark Paone appreciates the applicant's effort in studying the various alternatives, however he
remains concerned with the proliferation of new antennas in the community. IT may be
concluded that this is not an appropriate building for their request.
Susan Secoy agreed and further stated that more creative solutions are needed for these
requests. She cannot support the project in its current form.
Wendy Novak respectfully requested the DRC to take final action on this item.
MOTION was made by Susan Secoy to deny the project without prejudice.
SECOND: Mark Paone
AYES: Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 7
5. DRC No. 3587 - VALARE TARDIF
Demolition of an existing residence (1906 Hip Roof Cottage) and detached garage in
Old Towne, and replace with a 1'/2 story residence (1915 Craftsman Bungalow)
relocated from another site outside of Old Towne, and to construct a new 2-car
detached garage.
151 S. Harwood Street (Contributing Structure)
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Continued from 10-04-00 meeting)
The project was presented by Andre Tardif. They have received a letter of consent from the
property owner at 1103 W. Chapman Avenue to proceed with the relocation of the Craftsman
structure, but he has not yet obtained the color and material samples. The letter stipulated that
Mr. Tardif is given until December 31, 2000 to obtain all necessary documentation and permits
to relocate the structure; otherwise it would be consider forfeited. In regards to the use of
concrete blocks for the new foundation, he is proposing that a parget mortar finish be applied to
the exterior. As for documenting the existing structure before it is demolished, he is consulting
with the City staff to determine the proper method of documentation.
The project was opened for public comments:
Robert Imboden had spoken to Planning Commissioner Smith and was told that are no
established methods for proper documentation.
Andre Tardif stated that he would be concerned the time delay and cost of having to hire a
consultant for the documentation.
Mark Paone stated that although it is the applicant's responsibility to provide the
documentation, this project does not seem overly complicated. The written descriptions are
already complete, and all that is still needed are some photographs.
Joe Woollett recalls one of the issues that were discussed at the last meeting was the need for
some type of assurance for completing the work.
Staff has consulted with the City Attorney's office regarding this matter, but has not yet
determined as to what is the most practical and feasible method of assuring that the project
would be completed as proposed.
Susan Secoy also recalls that a more detailed description would be provided as to how the
structure is to be disassembled before the move and reassembled after the move.
Andre Tardif showed the floor plan and sectional drawing of the house. He further explained
that he would be the master carpenter on the project, and he feels that he has the necessary
resource (manpower) to accomplish the work.
Jeff Frankel asked if the applicants are willing to go on public record in agreeing to accept a
nomination of the Craftsman house (after it has been relocated) to the Historic Register?
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 8
5. DRC No. 3587 - VALARE TARDIF (Continued)
Andre Tardif was unclear as to what is involved, but it would be his father's decision and he is
not here at the meeting tonight.
Joan Crawford would like to see the City help the applicant with the documentation of the
existing structure to be demolished. If it needs to be done by an outside firm, perhaps a list of 2
or 3 consultants that can be referred to the applicant for an estimate of what it would cost.
Some type of standard needs to be established by the City as to what is acceptable for this type
of project.
Joe Woollett is very concerned with setting
discourage applicants from proceeding with the
and would like to see that the project gets
complicated and difficult.
a bunch of nit-picking impediments that will
project. He is enthusiastic about the proposal,
carried out. The process should not be so
Robert Imboden stated that in terms of the documentation, we should at least consult the
Secretary of the Interior Standards since it is the adopted standard for historic preservation in
Orange. He understand and agree that this is a positive effort, however, we should not become
hasty with what we are doing. We need to stick with and apply the standards in every case for
preservation. Also of concern is that based on the information presented, is the DRC approving
it this evening? Or, will the applicants be asked to come back with more detailed drawings? He
is unclear as far as structurally if seismic work is needed and how it would affect the house. All
those things need to be on the building permit, and are we allowing demolition before that has
been considered? He believes that City ordinance require that a building permit must be issued
before the issuance of demolition permit. There is a lot of information that still isn't presented.
This is a win-win situation and he supports what the applicant is trying to do, but we do have to
stick to the standards in the way we practice preservation in Orange.
MOTION by Joe Woollett to recommend approval of the project to the Planning Commission
with the following conditions:
1. Prior to issuance of building permits, documentation of the existing contributing structure
1906 Hip Roof Cottage) shall be completed in accordance with the Secretary of the Interior
Standards.
2. Issuance of demolition permit shall be concurrent with the issuance of building permits for
the relocation of the 1915 Craftsman Bungalow.
3. Prior to issuance of building permits, applicant shall provide an acceptable form of
assurance of completion. (Staff to verify with City Attorney for requirements)
4. Prior to issuance of building permits, submit final plans (construction documents) to DRC for
approval. Final plans to include detailed descriptions of the method of transportation for the
relocation, and how the assembly and disassembly of the existing structure would occur.
5. Prior to issuance of building permits, submit exterior finish material sample and color palette
to DRC for approval.
6. The block foundation of the relocated structure shall be finished with a parget mortar on the
exterior typical of the Craftsman period.
7. Applicant shall accept nomination of the relocated 1915 Craftsman Bungalow as a
contributing structure into the Old Towne Orange National Register District.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 9
5. DRC No. 3587 - VALARE TARDIF (Continued)
8. The applicants are applauded in the effort to save and relocate the existing 1915 Craftsman
Bungalow into the historic district. The DRC strongly urges the City's processing of this
application in a timely manner respectively to the December 31, 2000 deadline set by the
property owner at 1103 W. Chapman Avenue.
The recommendation for approval is based on the finding that the proposed work conforms to
the standards and design criteria referenced and recommended by the Design Review
Committee. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and
Guidelines. The proposed work is compatible with, and therefore will not adversely affect the
use and design of existing buildings within Old Towne.
SECOND: Mark Paone
AYES: Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 10
6. DRC No. 3589 -FRED PETERS
New detached gazebo structure in the rear yard of an existing residence in Old Towne.
706 E. Walnut Avenue (Non-Contributing Structure)
DRC Action: Final Determination
The project was presented by the owner Mr. Fred Peters. The proposal is to construct a
detached gazebo structure with a 12ft.x12ft. roof-covered area in the center, and 18.5 ft. wide x
18.5 ft. wide overall. The structure measures 7.5 ft. high to the horizontal beam, and
approximately 12 ft. in overall ridge height.
Mark Paone is concerned that the structure is perceived to be too high, mainly due to its plate
height. Perhaps the roof covering can be extended down to the full length of the rafters? This
would help to visually lower the perceived height of the structure.
Fred Peters replied that he would rather not have to, but if it is a condition of approval, he would
agree to extend the roof covering down further.
Joe Woollett concurred with Mark Paone's comments, and further stated that the raised roof
covering is not consistent with the architectural style of the house.
MOTION by Mark Paone to approve the project with the following conditions:
1. Roof the covering to extend down to the main horizontal beam 18.5 ft. in width.
The approval is based on the finding that the proposed work conforms to the standards and
design criteria referenced and recommended by the Design Review Committee. The proposed
work complies with the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and Guidelines. The proposed
work is compatible with, and therefore will not adversely affect the use and design of existing
buildings within Old Towne.
SECOND:Susan Secoy
AYES:Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for October 18, 2000
Page 11
7. DRC No. 3590 - MONIQUE NAVARRETE
Addition to the rear of an existing residence (1925 Bungalow) in Old Towne
184 S. Pine Street (Contributing Structure)
DRC Action: Final Determination
Continued from 10-04-00 meeting)
The project was presented by the owner Monique Navarrete and her contractor David Nunez.
The plans have been revised to show the removal of the storage shed along side the garage.
Also presented were additional photographs of the house, and exterior finish material sample
Nardi-Plank) and color palette.
The project was opened for public comments: (None)
Joe Woollett asked has the applicant considered restoring the columns in the front of the house
per the previous discussion?
Monique Navarrete again stated that she cannot afford it at this time, but may consider it in the
future when she has the money. For now, she would like to focus only on the rear addition.
MOTION by Susan Secoy approve the project with the following conditions:
1. Submit sample roofing material color to City Historic Preservation staff planner for approval,
prior to installation.
The approval is based on the finding that the proposed work conforms to the standards and
design criteria referenced and recommended by the Design Review Committee. The proposed
work complies with the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and Guidelines. The proposed
work is compatible with, and therefore will not adversely affect the use and design of existing
buildings within Old Towne.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
10-18-00 Minutes