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09-16-2009 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES -FINAL Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart Adrienne Gladson Tim McCormack Craig Wheeler Joe Woollett Committee Members Absent: None September 16, 2009 Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner Sonal Thakur, Assistant Planner Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M. Chair McCormack opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda. Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated there were no changes or additions to the Agenda. The Committee Members reviewed the minutes from the regular scheduled Design Review Committee (DRC) meeting of September 2, 2009. Changes and corrections were noted. Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session. SECOND: Adrienne Gladson AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None Administrative Session adjourned at 5:15 p.m. Regular Session - 5:30 P.M. ROLL CALL: MOTION CARRIED. All members of the Design Review Committee were present. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 2 of 12 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the Agenda. There was none. CONSENT ITEMS: All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff, or the public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action. 1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: September 2, 2009 Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve the minutes from the regular Design Review Meeting of September 2, 2009, with the changes and corrections noted during the Administrative Session. SECOND: Bill Cathcart AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 3 of 12 AGENDA ITEMS: Continued Items: None New Agenda Items: 2) DRC No. 4397-08 - TUSKATELLA CENTER FACADE REMODEL-MODIFICATION A proposal to revise colors and materials, plus add materials to the facade remodel. 1303 - 1549 E. Katella Avenue Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714-744-7237, cortlieb(a~cityoforangeorg Revised Plans Approved at DRC meeting of December 3, 2008 DRC Action: Final Determination Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Darrel Hebenstreit, address on file, presented drawings and color/material samples for the Committee Members to review. He stated the roofing material was more of a variegation in the color; it had been an El Camino blend. The overall palette of the center had been lightened a little bit and the cornice and trim elements had been lightened. Awnings had been added. In reviewing the color palette in general, the colors were similar to what had been initially proposed; there was a bit more brightness. He would place it more in a category of a design evolution that happened as the project went along. They wanted a good strong presence from the street. He presented additional drawings for the elevations at the western end of the project. He pointed out some of the dome-shaped elements that had been added. Basically, the architectural forms were the same as initially proposed; there had been a bit more emphasis on the cornices. Public Comment None. Chair McCormack opened the item for discussion to the Committee. Committee Member Cathcart stated he liked the project. Chair McCormack asked about the comment "design evolution?" Mr. Hebenstreit stated one of the things that was interesting about the project was that they had been going fairly quickly in the beginning and property owner, Jill Anderson, took a lot of interest in the design as the construction documents were being finished. She looked at other centers and felt she wanted to change the colors a little bit to achieve an overall punch in the project. He worked with Ms. Anderson on the project as they had moved along. He had received positive comments from people who had driven by. The project now might be past discussing colors as many of the colors were already on the building, as they had not anticipated going before the DRC. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 4 of 12 Chair McCormack stated he noticed that there had been architectural jewelry added, such as light standards. He pointed out an area where a sign border had been removed and he asked why had that been done? Mr. Hebenstreit stated the sign that the major tenant of that unit had would not fit into the sign border; rather than go through the battle of attempting to have the tenant shrink their sign it was better to not try to force them into that box. That occurred in a few spots. Ms. Anderson pointed out the areas that had that change. Chair McCormack stated he cheered when he had seen that the Palm trees were pushed up for better sign visibility. He noticed that the keystones had been removed, but there were two left and he asked why those remained? Mr. Hebenstreit stated that was driven by the availability of the stone products. At the speed that they had been moving on the project, the keystones were not available and the large pre-cast concrete and arch elements were available. They made design adjustments to compensate for that. Ms. Anderson stated the problem with the keystone was that some of the pieces weighed 500 lbs. and there was a problem with the way they were being attached. She had requested that the stone be removed as she had not wanted them falling on someone. Chair McCormack stated he noticed that the vines had been removed from the columns which was a good idea. Vines on the columns without anything above would become ratty over time. Ms. Anderson agreed. She had looked at so many shopping centers to ensure that every single detail was exact. She had looked at vines on columns and they had looked horrible. Committee Member Wheeler stated his biggest thing was that the DRC had been clear on wanting to see that the cornices wrap around the corner and he noticed a couple locations that they had not done that. Mr. Hebenstreit stated there was a location on the building where they had not wrapped and the contractor would be fixing that. He pointed out the area on the drawings. Committee Member Wheeler stated there were two areas, which he pointed out on the drawings. Ms. Anderson stated the other area was an area that was not yet completed. She had told the contractor that the City specifically wanted the cornices to wrap. Committee Member Wheeler stated he noticed that there was possibly a problem on the side of the tower where there was a pair of columns to be installed, and it appeared that the columns would not fit in that area. Mr. Hebenstreit stated he was not aware of a problem with the columns. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 5 of 12 Committee Member Wheeler stated if there was a problem, a column on the other side could be omitted from that space. Ms. Anderson stated the contractor was still working on that area and she was not aware of any problems. Committee Member Wheeler pointed out an area where there was cone-story roof and stated there may be something odd going on there. The cornice only went back a foot or so, then the wall behind appeared to step back. Ms. Anderson stated that he was very observant, and that was a mistake. There would be a correction to that area. They would pull it back and float that area. Committee Member Wheeler stated his only other comment was on the colors and he felt the gray on either side of the Smart & Final store seemed to be out of place. Ms. Anderson stated if it became a problem they could change it. Because the roof had not been completed yet and the plantings were not installed, it stood out more. Once those elements were added she felt the area would blend better. She pointed out an area where the flashing had not been brought down and that would be corrected prior to installation of the roof. Committee Member Gladson stated the property owner would not want gaps, or un-mitered corners and things like that. She asked for more information on the dome. Mr. Hebenstreit stated there had been some problems with patina on the copper; the sample of the material they proposed to use was a metal that had an aged look. He had used a copper on another project in Riverside, and instead of the copper aging to a nice green, it changed to a dark muddy brown. They had wanted to control that material a little better and had chosen the pre- agedmetal look. Committee Member Woollett asked if the metal would actually become green? Mr. Hebenstreit stated it would remain closer to the sample that they had; it would end up a more greenish/brown. Chair McCormack stated he had reviewed the minutes from the previous presentation of the project and there had been suggestions, but no conditions. He had not seen a hardscape plan or planting plan and he was not certain if that was to be submitted for review to the DRC. Mr. Hebenstreit stated they had finished construction documents and many of the trees and plants were currently being tagged and purchased. If the DRC needed to see something further he would submit that. Mr. Ortlieb stated from a planting perspective, they had to use considerable caution on the project and not open up any new ground surfaces which would trigger water quality requirements. Based on the direction from the DRC to go with some Italian Cypress trees, that City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 6 of 12 was pretty much it on landscaping, and the reason the landscape had not been brought back to the DRC. Committee Member Gladson stated the Staff Report mentioned the applicant was working on a comprehensive sign program that had not been completed. Ms. Anderson stated that was correct and their sign man had just entered the room. Committee Member Gladson stated she was fine with that and wanted to make sure the applicant had no problem with any recommendation or condition the DRC would have. She was interested in what the sign program would be, and she knew that some of the sign bands on some of the major tenants would be a bit of a challenge. Ms. Anderson stated Smart & Final was okay; they would use the same sign that had been up there. T. J. Maxx had the same sign and CVS would remain the same. The only one that would change would be Fed Ex/Kinko's, which had changed to Fed Ex/Office. "Kinko's" would change to "Office". They wanted to change the new tenant signs, and she felt with the new shopping center they would need something new. They would work with Staff on the sign program. Committee Member Gladson stated she would encourage the applicant, as she had done so much in creating a new look for the center, to try to do something unique and innovative, which could be achieved in a number of ways. She was getting tired of channel letters, plastic faces, and metal returns. It would be nice to see something a bit more innovative. Ms. Anderson stated their sign contractor, Gene, from Signage Solution had done the Garden Walk, which was exactly what Committee Member Gladson spoke of. It was creative. Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve DRC 4397-08, Tuskatella Center Facade Remodel-Modification, as presented and subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 7 of 12 3) DRC No. 4432-09 - MOOSAD MEDICAL OFFICE BUILDING A proposal to demolish an existing professional office building and replace with a new medical office building; includes new parking, lighting, and associated landscaping. 900 E. Lincoln Avenue Staff Contact: Sonal Thakur, 714-744-7239, sthakur(u,cityoforange.org DRC Action: Preliminary Review Assistant Planner, Sonal Thakur, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Brian Scott, address on file, stated they had a tough site to work with. The site started at street level on Lincoln and then it stepped down approximately 8 feet. It was an irregular site. The design evolved after several attempts of trying to move the building to the front which was a little more conventional for the area. In moving the building to the front of the property he could not work the parking out. The parking requirement of 7 spaces minimum could not be met, with incorporating the ADA requirements and other site needs. The proposed design worked well, and he felt it would be a very attractive development. The entire area needed to be redeveloped. The owners had bought the property without really considering all the issues at hand. They were caught with a building that needed development and he was attempting to find something that worked. Public Comment None. Chair McCormack opened the item for discussion to the Committee. Committee Member Woollett stated he noticed that they were taking access from the west and he asked if there was an easement? Mr. Scott stated there was an ingress/egress easement. The current entrance for the property was further south and on the west side. Committee Member Woollett stated he was a little confused. On the east elevation there was a little balcony and he asked where that occurred? Mr. Scott stated that would come off of the break room in the rear. There was a lunch area for the employees; he pointed that area out on the plans. Committee Member Woollett stated he would call that out as the south. There was one on the east elevation, and pointed that out on the plans. Mr. Scott stated the south-east elevation showed a true south-east elevation of that corner and the wall to the right was the north-south wall. The building was not sitting north-south, as it was cut on the corner. There was a blank wall adjacent to another commercial property. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 8 of 12 Committee Member Woollett clarified with the applicant, on the plans, where the wall ran to and from. He asked what the style would be called? There were pitched roofs and there was molding around the top and he asked if there was also a flat roof? Mr. Scott stated the reason for that was Ms. Thakur was concerned that the properties to the south, being residential, would not want a lot of stucco mass next to them. He wanted to break it up and added a couple of gable roofs and attempted to dress it up a bit. He attempted to keep the south elevation a bit more residential in design. Committee Member Woollett stated the proposed project was being submitted for preliminary review, and it was important that the design be a little more consistent. Committee Member Gladson stated the applicant had looked at options of moving the building to front Lincoln. The easement afforded the ability to have access all the way to the back and she asked if there was a way to design the building with entry from the back? The pattern on Lincoln was with buildings to the front of the properties. Mr. Scott stated in coming up with a design that incorporated the parking and landscape requirements, they had run into the problem with not enough area to maneuver for parking. He felt having the entry at the back was not the best design for the property; there were problems with the grade change and ADA requirements. He could not provide a ramp with a 1 and 12 slope. It would have required an elevator at the extreme end of the building, and there were just too many obstacles in orienting the building in another manner. Committee Member Gladson stated she had a bit of a concern with the design theme, especially as it was not a design that was consistent with the immediate neighborhood. It was a very modern contemporary feel along that stretch of Lincoln, and it was in an area that was ripe for a re-do, but she was concerned with the compatibility. The project would come back to them and she wanted to throw out her observations. She was not certain the design was appropriate for the street. Mr. Scott stated there were a lot of choices for architectural styles on the street. Committee Member Gladson stated one of the findings they would make was to ensure the project was consistent and internally consistent and also that it fit within the character of the streeto Mr. Scott stated the style could be changed. He needed some direction. Committee Member Gladson stated she felt there were some pieces missing and for one it was a very basic site plan; she was troubled with the access from the adjacent property. As it was still going through a Staff Review, there might be issues there that needed to be addressed. She thought there would be conflicts. Committee Member Wheeler stated starting with the drawing, there was a box out that had not been indicated on the plans. The site plan was missing a roof plan and he would like to see a roof plan when the project returned to the DRC. There were parapets that had not been clear as City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 9 of 12 to where they were running to and it was important to have a very clear roof plan. One thing that concerned him was the gate; with the easement driveway, the gate would need to be on a slope and it would be very cumbersome and dangerous. The elevations appeared to have a lot of things wrong with them. The south east elevation projection was not a true south east view. The equipment screen was not shown and it appeared there should be parapets on an area he pointed to on the plans. There were just a lot of things that needed to be cleaned up. He was pretty picky and he wanted to see a set of drawings that were as accurate as they could be. On the design, he agreed with what had been stated by other Committee Members. The feeling he had was that the design was a jumble of things; there was Monterey-style, a gable, one hip, and heavy trim on the window that changed. One approach would be that if the building needed parapets, to have the building be an expression of those parapets and to have a more consistent design. Something that had more simplicity. There were all sorts of different arches and roof forms. He agreed that there should be an effort to bring the building to the north side of the property as it would keep more in line with the streetscape. It would also be a consideration to the residential properties to the rear. He presented a drawing to the applicant that might work. It would require an elevator. He had blocked out a footprint that was a bit bigger than what had been presented. He played with the idea of keeping the parking on the same line as the street line and it looked that there might be the potential for an 8t" parking space. It would be cumbersome for entering and exiting; it would make the only entrance from the alley and require an elevator for ADA. Chair McCormack asked where the easement fell? Committee Member Wheeler pointed out the easement, and stated the driveway would come down the west side. He explained how the parking and access would work. It would require a warped plane for the transition to the slope. Committee Member Woollett stated there was an existing gate and it could remain where it was. Committee Member Gladson stated she had an aerial picture and she asked which property was the proposed site? Ms. Thakur pointed out the site on the aerial. Committee Member Wheeler stated it appeared they might need some type of retaining wall. Committee Member Gladson stated there was an opportunity for the site and Lincoln had the drop in grade. It could be a design element that would allow the applicant to tuck the parking underneath and have it not be visible from Lincoln. Chair McCormack stated he applauded Committee Member Wheeler for his design. He would not know if it would work and there would need to be some modifications. He was confused with the elevations and as for the landscape plan, when the applicant returned he suggested that the applicant make the effort to come up with a concept, and to find a landscape architect to assist with the project. He recommended keeping the site simple. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 10 of 12 Committee Member Cathcart stated one of the problems that existed was that the Palm trees needed to be specified trunk height and not container size. The other thing was to ensure that they had the right type of plants. With a Viburnum snowball, 12" on center, the plant would grow 8-10' tall and 4-6' wide and there were 532 specified. That would not work. Chair McCormack suggested keeping it simple and to put a plant palette in there that would do some heaving lifting for the site and to use a tree that would provide shade and not present problems. Currently it was an urban landscape and they would want some new plants in the front that would be new and fresh, maybe just one tree would work. Committee Member Cathcart stated maintenance was also an issue; the simpler they made it the better it would be. Sustainability was the key. Committee Member Woollett stated they should discuss the style a little more. There were a lot of things going on with the design. Compatibility was not much of an issue. It was a small site and keeping the design simple would be important. Committee Member Wheeler suggested (a) keeping the parapets nice and clean; (b) having a nicer, more expressive entry; and (c) using some fun forms and colors. Committee Member Woollett stated he had not looked at the dimensions. He was not certain the design required a sloped roof element. Committee Member Wheeler stated there were windows that were on the property line. Mr. Scott stated those should be fine with two-hour glass or two-hour rated. Committee Member Wheeler stated many buildings were using the molding along the top and they would not recommend that. The DRC approved a lot of projects and added on moldings were very much a cliche and they were not always necessary. He also stated if the applicant wanted a cornice, to think about some other forms. In Santa Fe, New Mexico, the Pueblo-style buildings had cornices that were not huge or overbearing, they just had pleasant finishes. That type of simplicity could work. Chair McCormack stated there was a very small interesting building on Irvine's campus, which was used for the information center; it was now a bike shop. It was a block building that was articulated with just block. He suggested a simple use of masonry structures. Committee Member Wheeler suggested coming up with a design that had more fun to it. Committee Member Gladson stated the City was working on an Urban Design concept for all of Orange, and it had not yet been adopted. Lincoln was screaming for an Urban Design element and perhaps the proposed project could set the tone to get something going. She felt the street was under utilized and had potential opportunities. Mr. Scott stated he needed direction and was not certain what the City was looking for. He wanted to find out what the DRC was looking for. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 11 of 12 Chair McCormack stated when he looked at all the pictures and understanding Lincoln, what would stand out would be to come up with a more modernistic approach, and to have fun with the project. To incorporate block and glass and to keep the design simple. The Committee reviewed the photos. Committee Member Gladson stated she liked the more modern contemporary designs. She appreciated that Staff brought the project to them as a preliminary review to allow the DRC to share their suggestions and for the applicant to return with a design concept. Chair McCormack stated having a more simple contemporary design would allow the applicant to deal with the site constraints. The constraints were complex and a simple architectural style would allow them to handle the constraints more easily. Committee Member Woollett stated he wanted to comment on the elevator. It seemed to him after reviewing the site more closely that an elevator might be the only thing that would make the project work. It was a very challenging site. In keeping the building very simple they could justify the expense of an elevator and would allow the design to work, to keep the parking together. The project had been submitted for preliminary review and no motion was needed. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for September 16, 2009 Page 12 of 12 ADJOURNMENT: Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled meeting on October 7, 2009 at 5:00 p.m. The meeting adjourned at 6:26 p.m. SECOND: Craig Wheeler AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: None MOTION CARRIED.