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06-04-2008 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES -FINAL 4 June 2008 Committee Members Present: Bill Cathcart Adrienne Gladson Tim McCormack Craig Wheeler Committee Members Absent: Joe Woollett Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager Ted Reynolds, Assistant City Attorney Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner Robert Garcia, Associate Planner Doris Nguyen, Associate Planner Dan Ryan, Senior Planner, Historic Preservation Sonal Thakur, Assistant Planner Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M. Tl1e Committee met for an Administrative Session beginning at 5:05 p.m. Chair Wheeler opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda. No changes were noted. Assistant City Attorney, Ted Reynolds, stated the attorneys would be looking to address any legal issues during the administrative session and to discuss any potential conflicts prior to the start of the regular session. The attorney would not remain for the duration of the meeting and Dave De Berry was in the process of drafting a memo with this information. They would try this process and see if it would work for everyone. Committee Member McCormack stated on the Holy Sepulcher Cemetery agenda item he knew the landscape sub-consultant and he had been an employee of the diocese approximately a year ago, and asked if that presented a conflict? Mr. Reynolds stated they could discuss the situation between the two of them and decide if that presented a conflict. Committee Member McCormack stated when Committee Member Cathcart worked on a proposed project would his association with him present a conflict? Mr. Reynolds stated no. Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated that brought up a good point and would be the basis for further discussion and good information for the new members of the DRC to have. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 2 of 21 It was important to understand how their relationships with each other and their involvement in a project would play into any conflict issues. Committee Member Cathcart stated it was difficult, as just being in the City of Orange for any length of time associated the Committee Members with so many people. Mr. Reynolds stated that was true, and the conflict of interest was based on financial and economic interests. Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session. Administrative Session adjourned at 5:25 p.m. SECOND: Bill Cathcart AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 3 of 21 ROLL CALL Regular Session - 5:30 P.M. Committee Member Woollett absent. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the Agenda. No public attendees addressed the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the Agenda. CONSENT ITEMS: All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action. 1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES-(a) April 16, 2008 (b) May 7, 2008 (c) May 21, 2008: a) Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve the April 16, 2008 meeting minutes with changes as noted. SECOND: Adrienne Gladson AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: Bill Cathcart ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. b) Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve the May 7, 2008 meeting minutes with changes as noted. SECOND: Bill Cathcart AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: Tim McCormack ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 4 of 21 c) Committee Member Cathcart made a motion to approve the May 21, 2008 meeting minutes with changes as noted. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. 2) DRC No. 4342-08 -FARMERS INSURANCE A proposal for new wall signage utilizing the corporate logo and design, which possesses a font other than "Optima" as required by the existing sign program. 333 South Anita Drive Staff Contact: Sonal Thakur, 714-744-7239, sthakur(a~cityoforange.org DRC Action: Final Determination Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve DRC 4342-08, Farmers Insurance, with the conditions contained in the Staff Report. SECOND: Bill Cathcart AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 5 of 21 AGENDA ITEMS: Continued Items: 3) DRC No. 4083-06, GPA No. 2006-0001, ZC No. 1244-06, VAR No. 2174-06, MJSP No. 0440-06, ENV No. 1768-06 -HOLY SEPULCHER CEMETERY A proposal to develop 11 acres of vacant land as a mausoleum, administration building, wall crypts, family estates, lawn crypts, family mausoleums, maintenance facility, driveway extension, and entrance upgrades for the cemetery. Recreational trails would also be dedicated and/or improved if the project is approved. 7845 East Santiago Canyon Road Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714-744-7223, do uyen(a~cityoforange.org DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission Item continued from DRC Preliminary Review of April 16, 2008 Associate Planner, Doris Nguyen, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Mike Padian, address on file, stated he would be going over the proposed project and changes that were made from the previous preliminary review of the project. The majority of the suggestions from the DRC were incorporated into the project. The landscape plans had been modified, a roof plan and orthographic drawings were provided, and they had color boards to review with the Committee. They had reviewed the Cupola and they were pleased with what they had, although the building had some strong Italian references they were not attempting to provide a historical replication. They were using some more modern materials that provided natural light into the building. He presented an exhibit and photos from the west side of the property regarding the chain link fence, where a horse trail would be added. There was an approximately 8'wide dirt area and to create a 10' buffer with a 10' wide trail the fence would be moved back. The existing fencing consisted of chain link or three strand wire fencing. There was a small section with ornamental metal fencing and another area that had an existing wall. He reviewed the drawings with the Committee and pointed out where each type of fencing was located around the property. Along Road Kill Trail there was an older type fence which consisted of wooden posts and double rails and Chester Way Trail had a new type PVC fence. He stated they proposed to leave much of the fencing in its current state. On the east side of the property, where most of the expansion would be taking place, they proposed to remove the existing chain link fence and replace it with an ornamental metal fence. There would be pilasters with black painted metal fencing between them and it would run along the frontage along Santiago Canyon Road. On the north side there would be a wall around the maintenance facility which would be an 8' fence, requiring a variance, and this would provide additional screening of the maintenance area. Mr. Padian stated, reviewing cross section No. 1, the office parking section, the area contained a slope with the parking lot located above street grade. The intent for the hillside was to plant a variety of low to high rise shrubs which would screen the cars from most off site views. No. 2 was an expanded view of the maintenance area. The same type of shrub planting would be completed along the maintenance area as well. The majority of the maintenance area was City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 6 of 21 surrounded by an 8' high wall. He reviewed several exhibits and drawings with the Committee and explained the cross section locations. No. 3 contained a 14' wide road with a 4' wide landscape area with taller, more column-like trees to create a row to soften the building. They had been in contact with the Fire Department regarding an access point that would allow them to enter the reservoir. ADA access was provided along the building access areas, in the open areas it was not generally provided in a cemetery setting. Applicant, Christopher Mekus, address on file, provided a color board for the Committee Members to review. He stated the samples were of the exterior finishes. There would be red and green granite used in the front areas of the buildings. The roof tile, which was a light weight concrete flat roof tile, would be in a green shade and cover all buildings. The walls would be finished with a darker stucco band, with a random ashler panel of stone used at the base. Visually they wanted rustication at the base and with the progression vertically to go from a more textured plaster to a smoother plaster above, with the change in color. He provided a photograph of stain glass that would be representative of the proposed glass to be used in the rotunda, tower and main mausoleum. The window finishes would be dark bronze. He provided samples of the ledge stone, ashler stone and the roof tile. Public Comment None. Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee. Chair Wheeler asked if they had samples of the pre-cast concrete? Mr. Mekus stated they did not bring samples; they would have a smooth finish. Committee Member McCormack asked for clarification on the smooth plaster that was mentioned in the presentation? Mr. Mekus stated the exterior finish would be stucco, it would not be plaster. Chair Wheeler asked what type of finish they would use for the stucco? Mr. Padian stated they would use a light sand finish. Mr. Mekus stated it would have a sand texture to it that was generally referred to as a Tuscan trowel finish. The materials used in the proposed project would be those indigenous to the area. Committee Member Gladson stated she appreciated the level of detail the applicant had taken in the presentation of the proposed property fencing. She asked for clarification on the three strand wire fencing and had they intended to have it curve? Mr. Padian stated it was currently curved as there was a slope in the area and the fence followed the slope. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 7 of 21 Committee Member Gladson asked what was the intent for the additional property the Diocese owned that was currently undeveloped? Mr. Padian stated they had enough inventory to last approximately 40 years. The Diocese owned additional property that was currently in the general plan as residential. Committee Member McCormack asked for clarification on the trail expansion. Mr. Padian stated they had been requested by the Homeowners Association and the Park Planning & Development Committee to expand the trail to a 10' trail as per City guidelines. In order to do that, they would be widening the trail onto their property. The area would re-graded. Chair Wheeler stated he had attended a garden show and there was an exhibit of native plants and a display of the 10 worst invaders ofnon-native plants. One of the plants in that display was Vinca minor and he asked Committee Member McCormack what he felt about the use of that plant? Committee Member McCormack stated he assumed that the Vinca Minor would at the building face and not wandering out past any sidewalk areas. He viewed it being underneath other shrubs as a ground cover. Mr. Padian stated it would be used as a ground cover. Committee Member McCormack stated the applicants had not spoken about the lighting concept. Walkways required lighting, as well as landscaped areas and doorways, and he asked for more information about the proposed lighting? Mr. Mekus stated most cemetery hours were dawn to dusk. There would not be a lot of artificial lighting found within a cemetery. They proposed lighting for the tower to be lit at night as it would become an identifier for people passing by. Any artificial lighting would be used along Santiago Canyon Road to highlight some of the features. The cemetery would not be used after dark. Mr. Padian stated Committee Member McCormack was reviewing the standard requirements for lighting from the Police and Fire Department. They were being required to light the parking lot of the administrative building. The lighting in that area would be on timers to be turned off at dusk. The proposed plan called for building access walkways to be lit and there would be minimum lighting in those areas. Ms. Nguyen stated they had received a public inquiry regarding the lights being currently lit around the clock at the maintenance facility and would that continue? Mr. Mekus stated there would be some degree of security lighting around the maintenance area. Mr. Padian stated once the maintenance building and fencing was reworked the lighting would be going into the maintenance yard and away from any residential areas. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 8 of 21 Chair Wheeler stated he was pleased that the oculi had been changed. On exhibit No. 31 the thin walls were still noted. He suggested the thicker wall areas would be a place to add a nitch for some type of statuary or art, a cut out on the inside could be added. Mr. Mekus stated the intent of the wall was to show some mass as a structural element. Chair Wheeler pointed out an area on the administrative building and asked what those elements were for? Mr. Mekus stated they did not want to have a flat roof across with a sloped roof coming up again. They had created a bridge of sloped roof. Chair Wheeler suggested filling in the entire area with a flat roof. Mr. Mekus stated they had kept some areas flat for the purpose of screening any maintenance materials or equipment. Committee Member McCormack stated the property had been presented as not being in the Cities Fuel Modification Zone; if it was not in the City it maybe in the County's zone. Mr. Padian stated the reservoir areas were very dry, once arriving at the cemetery those areas that surrounded the cemetery were very wet. He felt the requirement from the Fire Department would be for specific types of planting along the perimeter. For the most part the proposal called for turf and trees. Committee Member McCormack clarified the area that would include a ramp for ADA access. Mr. Mekus pointed out the areas for ADA access. Committee Member McCormack asked for clarification on fire lanes. Mr. Padian stated there was standard language contained in the proposal for fire lane and Fire Department access. They would work with the local agencies to ensure the requirements were met. He pointed out the areas for two way traffic with parking on both sides which would allow adequate flow of traffic and Fire Department access. Committee Member McCormack stated the overall aesthetic for a cemetery would be to have larger trees. Mr. Padian stated it was a question whether to present the trees as just planted or as more mature trees. The intent was to have trees that were similar to what existed in the area, they would be trees that would grow larger, provide shade and could be looked through from the second level. Mr. Mekus stated the tree varieties would vary with the area they would be planted in. They needed to be able to get a lift into the various areas for caskets and access to the wall crypts. Ms. Nguyen asked if Committee Member McCormack was asking for a different specie or a bigger box? City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 9 of 21 Committee Member McCormack stated he suggested a larger tree specie, such as Platanus racemosa, a tree that would grow up and have the ability to be looked through, and match the scale of the other trees already on site. Mr. Padian stated along the edge of the property there was a heavy predominance of tall Pine trees and they would replicate that around the property. Committee Member McCormack asked if there was a way to line up the trees with the building architecture. He suggested a balance between the trees and the building. On the plant palette he suggested including a plant that would be a transitional plant between the grass and the shrubs and include some additional plant choices for the property edges. Committee Member Cathcart stated Buffalo Grass could be used in those areas. He had reviewed the plant list and the suggestions from the previous meeting that had been incorporated in the changes to the plant palette. Committee Member McCormack made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning Commission DRC No. 4083-06, GPA No. 2006-0001, ZC No. 1244-06, VAR No. 2174-06, MJSP No. 0440-06, ENV No. 1768-06, Holy Sepulcher Cemetery, with the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following additional conditions: 1. In the area by the new family estates use larger specie trees to compliment existing growth. 2. Include another transitional ground cover between the grass and shrub areas. 3. Landscape and irrigation plans to be submitted to Staff for review. 4. Verify conditions for a Fuel Modification Plan with the County. SECOND: Bill Cathcart AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 10 of 21 4) DRC No. 4217-07 and MNSP No. 0507-07 -SANTIAGO CHEVRON A proposal to convert the existing repair bays into a convenience store for an existing Chevron gas station. 2844 Santiago Boulevard Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, 714-744-7231, r arcia ,cityoforan~;e•org DRC Action: Final Determination Item continued from DRC Meeting of March 5, 2008 Associate Planner, Robert Garcia, gave a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Sal Hassam, address on file, stated the proposed structure was a departure from the initial proposal; the canopy had remained the same. The canopy/pad area was kept the same and the existing structure would have a change to the parapet. Public Comment None. Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee. Chair Wheeler stated from the demolition plan he had the impression that the existing building would be demolished. Mr. Hassam stated the primary structure, which was a metal building that had been modified over time. A CMU wall and stucco elements had been added and it would not be demolished. Chair Wheeler asked if the existing roof would remain? Mr. Hassam stated yes that was correct. Chair Wheeler asked if the 4 and 12 roof would be completely concealed by the parapets? Mr. Hassam stated yes it would be completely concealed, he had not provided a drawing for that section. Chair Wheeler asked where the plate line would be? Mr. Hassam stated it was very low; the current overhang was very generous. Chair Wheeler was concerned that the old roof could be seen above the parapet and asked what the roofing material would be? Mr. Hassam stated it would be a capped roof with a 3 ply material that would work up to the parapet. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 11 of 21 Chair Wheeler asked if the ridge was offset? Mr. Hassam stated, "yes, it was." Chair Wheeler stated at the previous meeting the Committee had not expressed any issues with the roof and what existed was very compatible with the neighborhood. They had asked to view the canopy in relationship to the existing building. They had asked that the canopy be made more compatible with the building; however, the applicant had redesigned the building and it was not compatible with other buildings in the area. The cornice did not agree with anything and there was not any agreement between the building and the canopy. Mr. Hassam stated it had been discussed both ways -that the building should be compatible with the canopy or the canopy with the building. Committee Member Gladson stated they had made a request to view the two structures for compatibility. She recollected that they were interested in the building and the canopy being tied together. She felt that the current proposal had no compatibility between the building and the canopy and she concurred with Chair Wheeler. She was more inclined to have a flat roof on both structures. Chair Wheeler suggested they use the canopy fascia in place of the cornice that was on the proposed drawings for the building. Mr. Hassam stated the struggle with the project was that the proposal was an upgrade by a franchisor who was very protective of their image. The canopy was maintained for the logo and brand name image. Committee Member Gladson stated they needed to marry the two structures. The structures could be special and have unique characters that were compatible with the Mediterranean structures in the area. She was not opposed to a more modern design, however, the two structures needed to fit together. Elements could be added to the columns under the canopy to tie the two structures together. Chair Wheeler stated they had suggested the addition of like elements to the columns at the last presentation. Mr. Hassam stated unless they were substantial elements they would not be very visible. The bases of the columns could be restructured with the some of the building elements carried over to them. Chair Wheeler stated they could use the same color scheme for both the building and canopy, he assumed the canopy colors were fixed. Mr. Hassam stated the canopy colors were the Chevron logo colors and the design of the canopy had a space age appearance. Committee Member McCormack asked if Chevron would allow them to change the canopy? City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 12 of 21 Mr. Hassam stated if it was a must they would work with them. Chevron had an interest in maintaining their image as it was a nationwide design. Committee Member Gladson stated she would be pleased to see the project move forward as the site needed upgrading. She was comfortable with suggesting that they either go with the space age design for both structures or change the canopy to the same design as the building -they needed to be compatible. Chair Wheeler stated he would want to see another reiteration of the proposed project and he was interested on reviewing an alternate proposal. Committee Member McCormack stated the two structures should have some relationship, as proposed there was not any relationship in color or form. Chair Wheeler stated the buildings should have compatibility in both color and form and he felt the best solution would be to have the building agree with the canopy. Committee Member McCormack stated with the small spaces for landscaping it was busier than it needed to be. On the plant legend it was noted 24" box and all new trees facing front shall be 24", he asked for clarification on the trees as they should be quantified and more specific. The areas that called out for one gallon in the polygonal shaped areas should include the spacing. For items No. 6 through 8 the spacing should be noted on the legend. A 15 gallon Chamaerops humilis would be very small, and they should review that planting. On the site plan, there was a small opening at the property line for trash truck access and he wanted to ensure the access would accommodate a trash truck. Mr. Hassam stated the space Committee Member McCormack referred to would accommodate a trash truck, the area was a common drive and he felt there was a recorded easement to allow access. The landscape areas could be reduced in size to accommodate any future access issues. Committee Member McCormack suggested that shrub or ground cover not be planted in the car overhang areas. Committee Member Cathcart suggested the Crape Myrtle should be the Cherokee Red variety rather than the Watermelon variety for the mold and mildew aspect. Finding a Chamaerops humilis of a larger size would be difficult and suggested a Phoenix roebelenii or a Tachycarpus fortunei. The Oleander would not take shearing very well and they were suspect with blight and suggested an alternative plant. Chair Wheeler made a motion to continue DRC No. 4217-07 and MNSP No. 0507-07, Santiago Chevron, to allow the applicant to modify the proposal: 1. To have the canopy and building be more compatible with each other. 2. Provide a building cross section to show the parapet and roof height. 3. Quantify the tree sizes on the landscape plans. 4. Note spacing of the landscape materials on the legend. 5. Incorporate base stone into the canopy area. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 13 of 21 6. Clarify the trash truck access; modify the planter to accommodate access if necessary. 7. No shrubs or plant material in the car overhang areas. And with the following requirements: 1. Change the Oleander to another plant specie. 2. Substitute Chamaerops humilis to Crape myrtle -Cherokee Red variety. SECOND: Adrienne Gladson AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 14 of 21 5) DRC No. 4242-07 & MNSP No. 0518-07 -SPIRES EXPRESS A proposal to develop a vacant site with a 2,600 sq. ft. drive-thru restaurant, a 3,000 sq. ft. office building, landscaping, and parking lot paving. 1220 North Batavia Street Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714-744-7237, cortlieb(a~cityoforange.org DRC Action: Final Determination Item continued from DRC Meeting of March 19, 2008 Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Milad Oueijan, address on file, stated they had added a strip of lighting behind each band of stainless steel. It would be added onto the main building and not the office building. The lighting would be the same colors as the logo sign. Public Comment None. Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee. Committee Member McCormack stated they had spoken at the last presentation about adding lighting to other visible zones, and pointed the areas out on the drawings. Mr. Oueijan stated the proposed project had changes to the roof area, creating a recessed roof in the area Committee Member McCormack was referring to. Committee Member McCormack asked if there was any lighting on the back side of the building? Mr. Oueijan stated the lighting wrapped all the way around, the corners would stay exposed and he presented the drawings that should how the area would be lit. There would be lighting on all 4 sides, as well as landscape lighting. Chair Wheeler stated he felt the changes were good and that it was a wonderful project. He asked if the design would become a prototype? Mr. Oueijan stated it would be a guideline for future buildings. Committee Member McCormack asked if there would be a grid pattern on the back of the building and if the back of the building would be stucco? Mr. Oueijan stated the grid would be only on the front and the back would be stucco. He reviewed the changes and the drawings with the Committee Members and clarified the elements on the building. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 15 of 21 Chair Wheeler stated the office building carried the same theme, but was different and it appealed to him. Committee Member Gladson stated she thought the proposed project was fun and trendy and could lead to other buildings having creative architecture along the street. Staff had already included as a condition that the roof equipment would not be visible and she wanted to ensure that the equipment would not be visible. Mr. Oueijan stated with the angle of the roof line the equipment would not be visible. Committee Member Gladson asked for the treatments of the Spire's sign? Mr. Oueijan stated the letters would be illuminated and reviewed the drawing with Committee Member Gladson. Committee Member McCormack stated in sensing the googie-type architecture they may want to look at simplifying the current landscape plan and going with a different plant palette. Committee Member Cathcart stated he concurred that the landscape plan was too busy and needed to be simplified. He suggested using plantings that were more angular, such as Flax and Fountain grass -the Ducks practice facility had many of the plants he spoke about. Committee Member McCormack suggested planting huge dramatic Tree Aloes. He pointed out areas on the plans that could be simplified and where the focus of the plantings should be. He suggested simplifying the edges and on the ground plane use bold dramatic lines using colored plants. Committee Member Cathcart stated lavender light grass could be used and there were many plants that could be used to add color. Committee Member McCormack stated there could be burgundy Flax or plants that carried a blue color and no flowers. He suggested using plants with dramatic shapes. Committee Member Cathcart stated they did not have another basic office building and the landscape should reflect the architecture of the building. Committee Member Gladson made a motion to approve DRC No. 4242-07 and MNSP No. 0518- 07, Spires Express, with the conditions contained in the Staff Report and to have the final landscape plans reviewed by the DRC for incorporation of their recommended changes. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 16 of 21 New Agenda Items: 6) DRC No. 4294-07 - COLBURN RESIDENCE A proposal to expand a second floor dormer (400 sq. ft.) on a 1923 Provincial Revival residence. Proposal includes the relocation and expansion of a one-car garage (450 sq. ft.). 205 North Pine Street, Old Towne Historic District Staff Contact: Dan Ryan, 714-744-7224, dr~(a~cityoforange.org DRC Action: Preliminary Review and Comments Senior Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicants, Steve and Kristi Colburn, address on file, were available for questions. Mrs. Colburn stated they had lived most of their lives in the City of Orange. They had been part of the Old Towne area for many years and had a desire to live in Old Towne and own a historic home. They were working with Jon Califf to make some changes to the home. The interior stairway was an issue and there was an outside stairway that they planned to take down. Applicant, Jon Califf, address on file, stated he had some corrections to make. Under project description on the garage addition, rather than 325 square feet it was actually 451 square feet as the addition went behind the garage. The proposal stated the garage was moving 20', with the added square footage the FAR went to .52. Public Comment Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated the structure was very unique. The OTPA was opposed to the project due to the changes to the roof with the added dormer, which appeared more like a roof addition as it spanned between two gable style dormers. The roof was a character defining feature. He felt that the proposed project did not meet the Secretary of Interior's Standards Appendix C or the Design Standards which stated the historic character of the property shall be retained and removing historic materials shall be avoided, distinctive features, finishes and construction techniques shall be preserved and exterior additions or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize a property. With the removal of the existing dormer and the addition of the roof to create more square footage, if someone wanted to re-create the original roof the materials would not be there. The Design Standards stated that all work shall comply with the Secretary of Interior Standards and also stated additions shall be designed and constructed as to not significantly change or destroy the character defining features of the building. He felt the roof alteration was a significant change. The OTPA was not opposed to adding living space to attic areas and they would encourage that, however, the FAR of .52 already exceeded the closest FAR on the block of .41. The garage was a contributing garage and the addition was a significant change to the garage and the relocation also changed the site. An alternative might be to reconfigure what was there and removal of the exterior stair case would be nice. The landscape plan was not consistent with the landscaping within the Historic District. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 17 of 21 Janet Crenshaw, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated the FAR was too large and double the average on the street. The plans read remodel and she felt they needed to go back to the type of a philosophy of restoring not remodeling. Chair Wheeler opened the item for discussion by the Committee. Committee Member Cathcart stated he was thrilled to see the proposed removal of the outside staircase. He asked for clarification on the landscape plans. Mrs. Colburn stated they were very preliminary plans, primarily conceptual. They wanted to get further into the project before they finalized the landscaping. Mr. Colburn stated the landscape architect had referred to historic 1920 period homes and what that landscape would be. They also wanted to consider drought tolerant plants. Committee Member McCormack stated there was an existing block wall next to the sidewalk and he suggested something to soften the wall, such as a hedge or vines, all that would be required would be 2' of landscape to soften the wall. Mr. Colburn stated they wanted to increase the height of the wall; in order to do the wall might necessitate rebuilding. Mrs. Colburn stated they had reviewed historic photos that had an archway and a solid door going into the yard. Mr. Colburn stated the shed roof was not historic it was an addition built in the 1960's. Mr. Califf stated the apartment was old, the home was built with floor joist and all of the rafters were finished with lath and plaster it was not a typical attic addition. The kitchenette was added in the early 40's when the outside staircase was built. Mr. Colburn stated the interior stairs were unsafe in their current position. Committee Member Gladson stated it would be ideal to not change a contributing structure and she would need a very compelling argument and story for the reasons behind making changes to the home. From a policy perspective and a historical perspective would the changes be appropriate and how could they achieve the changes without altering the main structure. The garage was also in question. Mr. Califf stated Mr. Frankel had quoted from the Secretary of Interior's Standards and he would quote from the Preservation Briefs which dealt with new exterior additions to historic buildings; constructing new additions on a secondary side or rear elevation, in addition to material preservation will also address preservation of the historic character, primarily such placement will help preserve the historic form and a relationship to its site and setting. Mr. Califf stated the frame work was that when an addition was being considered the primary elevations; the way the building was experienced by the public, would be one of the main concerns. They had gone to the effort to present what would be seen. As one would travel south there would be a view of it and they tried to explain that. He had made changes to move the wall of the dormer (the addition City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 18 of 21 part upstairs) back an additional foot to diminish the amount of exposed wall. They also dropped the head down to 7' bringing the roof plane down. The roof steepness would still be perceived from the original roof. The issue functionally was that the roof was so steep and they had looked at many ways to gain more head height and useable space. The walk in closets fit within the existing structure and the existing bathroom was not sufficient for a master bath. The option to move it was not considered due to the disruption that would be involved to the downstairs area and would not make sense. To widen the stairs in their current location would not allow them to keep the cabinets and other features that existed. Committee Member Gladson stated the existing dormer dated from the 1940's and was there actual evidence of that being a newer feature? Mr. Califf stated it was evident that it was a new feature as the construction was the same as the construction found in the kitchenette. Mr. Califf stated the area was a very interesting space, however, there was no head room provided in that space. Chair Wheeler stated on the second story wall it would be adding a new element that had not existed and adding another dormer on the other side could be an option. Mr. Califf stated the roof was so steep the dormer could not be made wide enough to make it useful. Chair Wheeler suggested using a Shed dormer rather than a Gable dormer. Mr. Califf stated they had discussed that, while they could use a Shed dormer and make the bathroom construction possible, it would leave a valley and not allow access from the stairway. They needed headroom primarily in a specific area which he was pointing out on the plans. He reviewed the specifics of the problems they had encountered with the Committee while pointing out the areas he spoke about on the plans. Chair Wheeler asked if they had considered flipping the stairs. Mr. Califf stated they had produced a plan to incorporate that, however, there was abuilt-in that fit in that area and they would not want to disrupt that part of the home. Chair Wheeler stated the new element was visible and the home was on a corner lot. Mr. Colburn stated the home directly across the street was larger than what they had proposed. Chair Wheeler stated on the garage as they would be adding to the existing garage on the same plane that would require a line of demarcation. The drawing showed several pitches for the jerkin heads which were consistent on the house; and he felt the garage should be consistent within itself. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 19 of 21 Mr. Califf stated the slope on the front of the house was different than the slope on the back of the house and it was decided that all the roof areas had met and that was the reason for the inconsistency on the house. They would make them more consistent to each other on the garage. Chair Wheeler stated he had no objection on the way they proposed to move the gable; they would be using the same form and pushing it up. Mr. Ryan asked if Chair Wheeler thought the dormer should float and not be connected to the sides? Chair Wheeler stated "yes"; he thought the dormer should float. As there was a shed roof dormer there now and a bigger shed roof dormer proposed it would add some historical relationship. Committee Member Cathcart stated he would be interested in when the additional dormer was added, as it would validate the argument that there would not be disruption of a historic structure. Mr. Califf stated there was an indication that there was a closet door that was dated 1940 and that also would date the kitchenette. They were unable to date the fixtures in the bathrooms as they had been updated to fiberglass and more modern materials. Committee Member Gladson stated she would not be surprised if there were not permits or records available for the additions. She was also in agreement to remove the outside staircase. Mr. Califf stated the idea was to remove the stairs and leave the informal outside deck. Chair Wheeler suggested using a different type of knee brace on the deck, something a bit more fun. Committee Member McCormack stated he agreed with the staircase and that the deck was fine and agreed that adding more detail would be a good idea. He suggested a sleeping porch without a roof or something similar to one. Committee Member Gladson stated it may not go with the time period. Mr. Colburn stated a two car garage was an important feature to them as he wanted to garage his vehicle. Committee Member Gladson stated she was having a struggle with the idea of moving the garage. Mr. Colburn stated the garage had quite a bit of termite damage and being able to move it would allow them the opportunity to replace much of the damaged materials. Chair Wheeler stated they had given a variety of recommendations to the applicants and asked if there was any further clarification needed? City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 20 of 21 The applicants stated they had notes on what the Committee Members were suggesting. Chair Wheeler stated the proposed project was presented for preliminary review and a motion was not required. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for June 4, 2008 Page 21 of 21 ADJOURNMENT: A motion was made by Committee Member Cathcart to adjourn to the next regular scheduled meeting on Wednesday, June 18, 2008. The meeting adjourned at 8:46 p.m. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Bill Cathcart, Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED.