03-06-2002 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES
for Wednesday, March 6, 2002
Committee Members Present: Alice Angus
Leonard Filner (Vice Chair)
Mark Paone
Susan Secoy
Joe Woollett (Chair)
Staff in Attendance: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
Howard Morris, Landscape Coordinator
Madeline Russell, Recording Secretary
Committee Member Absent: None
Administrative Session - 4:30 P.M.
The committee met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 p.m. The meeting adjourned
at approximately 9:40 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 PM
REVIEW OF MINUTES:
Review and approval of the meeting minutes was continued to the March 20, 2002 meeting.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 2
DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD
New replacement brick staircase at the front porch of an existing Craftsman residence
in Old Towne.
230 S. Grand Street (Contributing Structure)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan -Senior Planner, Historic Preservation
DRC Action: Final Determination
Continued from 01-09-02 meeting)
Kenneth Bryant, Attorney appeared for the applicant. Attorney Bryant distributed copies of
written arguments with photographs.
For the record, Mark Paone stated he had not attended the two previous DRC meetings relating
to this application but had reviewed the appropriate minutes, was up to speed on the project,
and would be voting on the application.
Attorney Bryant asked the DRC to review the documents carefully. He stated he went through
The City of Orange Historic Preservation Element, took the policies set forth there, and
summarized them in his document. He wanted to demonstrate by sheer logic that brick is not
incompatible and it's not a major violation of the rules. Attorney Bryant believes the brick steps
are an obvious improvement on the property and are compatible with hundreds of other
properties in Old Towne. When you look through the photographs in the written arguments,
there must be 100 houses with brick steps. Also, there's nothing in the Planning rules that
specifically refer to steps.
Attorney Bryant summarized: Of the 50 photographs at least 100 homes show that the
applicant's brick steps are compatible with the surrounding area, one of the criteria. Included in
the document Attorney Bryant supplied is a petition, signed by numerous Old Towne residents,
stating that brick steps fit in well with the overall design of the neighborhood. Historic
Preservation Elements show four homes, %2 of the homes in that Preservation Element has brick
steps. The appendix in that Historic Element has suggestions of materials, quoting, "A variety of
materials can add to the distinctiveness of the neighborhood, common materials are, brick..."
Brick is mentioned first. Additionally, the Historic Design Standards don't refer to the front steps
of any residence. It should be noted that there's nothing in the City Ordinances requiring a
homeowner to obtain a building permit with respect to replacement of front steps. Finally, the
review criteria of design standards all support the installation of bricks. He reiterated that brick
steps are compatible "with surrounding development in neighborhoods" and they are "consistent
in size, scale and context with surrounding development", as you can see from the photographs.
Attorney Bryant thinks they retain a historic relationship between buildings, landscape features
and are compatible with the character of existing structures in surrounding areas, again quoting
from code. He urged DRC to grant the app-icant his bricks, they're installed, they're beautiful,
and it would be unfortunate if it wasn't approved.
Chair Woollett asked Attorney Bryant whether his research included review of Department of
Interior Standards. Attorney Bryant responded that he did not.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 3
DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD (Continued)
Chair Woollett asked Attorney Bryant whether he was aware the City of Orange had made an
inventory of residences in Old Towne, classified them by style, and determined which buildings
are contributing or non-contributing to the district. Attorney Bryant responded he was not aware
and if such an inventory existed it certainly has not been made clear to the public.
Susan Secoy showed a copy of the Historic Survey to the Attorney. Attorney Bryant stated he
had not seen the document and wanted to know why it was relevant.
Chair Wollett responded it was relevant because it identifies the style of the residence.
Chair Wollett asked Attorney Bryant if he knew that since the initial hearings on this application
his client had proceeded to do more work in front of his house in defiance of the rules. Attorney
Bryant indicated his client put in a planter and a brick walkway and didn't know he was
supposed to come to Committee first.
PUBLIC COMMENT:
OPPOSITION:
Jeff Frankel - OTPA: Mr. Frankel stated the document of reference is the Historic Preservation
Design Standards. Porches, stairs, and materials are noted in that document. Chapter 4, which
pertains to the residential quadrants, states new editions, exteriors, alterations, or related new
construction shall not destroy historic features that characterize the property. Mr. Frankel
continued with other references to acceptable restoration of Old Town property and stated the
stairs should be replaced with appropriate material, redwood, as in the original design. For the
record, Mr. Frankel stated he is not an employee of Susan Secoy.
Robert Imboden - OTPA: Understands the Design Review Committee has on two previous
occasions deemed this project inconsistent with existing standards and there is still no proposal
or alternative design. On behalf of OTPA, he asked that DRC deny the project. Mr. Imboden
indicated he is an employee of Susan Secoy.
IN FAVOR:
Clark Hills - 475 S. Grand; Paul Hudson - 212 S Orange St.; Deniece Hills - 475 S. Grand
Those in favor indicated they think the steps look nice and fit in with the whole neighborhood.
Although, they might have experienced similar situations recently, and agreed that the steps
should have been replaced with wood, they did not believe they detracted from the historical
integrity of the property. Also, the speakers felt that property owners do have a right to beautify
their own residences and should not be encumbered with inflexible policies.
Additionally, Mrs. Bernard, the applicant expressed concern that she and Mr. Bernard had been
discriminated against, in light of other incidences where brick steps exist.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 4
DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD (Continued)
After much discussion and effort to help Attorney Bryant and the applicant understand the
reasons the DRC has not approved their steps, Alice Angus clarified the approval process and
indicated that there is a tier of guideline documents. Ms. Angus mentioned that since Mr. Bryant
had just presented a very comprehensive packet of information tonight, the committee has not
had ample time to review them. Therefore, it is suggested that this item be continued so that
the committee can review the information, and to allow Mr. Bryant to review the other standards
discussed tonight.
A motion was made by Committee Member Alice Angus to continue the project.
SECOND:Susan Secoy
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 5
2. DRC No. 3599 -KFC/A&W
New 2,580 sq.ft. restaurant building with drive-thru window.
2469 N. Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Mario Chavez-Marquez -Planning Aide
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Continued from 1-23-02 meeting)
Ahmad Ghaderi with A & S Engineering, Inc., presented the project. The elevations have been
revised to address the board's concerns regarding the tower elements. The wainscoting at the
base has been changed to stucco rather than the as shown on the previous submittal. The
checkerboard pattern is painted instead of reveals on the building. As for signage on the
building, he prefers to defer review of the proposed wall signs to a later date so that revisions
can be made to bring the signage into compliance with code.
The meeting was opened for public comments: (None)
Committee Member Susan Secoy indicated that she was not involved with this project initially,
but had since reviewed the staff report and the submitted plans, and felt comfortable with
reviewing the project.
Mr. Ghaderi stated that the building has been reduced in size several times to comply with code
requirements relating to traffic circulation, vehicular access, parking, etc. They have also
requested a variance for reduction in landscape setback. The landscape deviation occurs along
the north property line where most of it is hidden by the building and drive-thru lane, and
therefore would not be as visible.
The Committee discussed various design issues with the applicant as follows:
The revised elevations appear rather busy, perhaps applicant should consider going back
to the previous design with some modifications.
Submit variations of more toned-down colors for checkerboard pattern. Use of reveals on
the building is encouraged.
Eliminate pyramid shape the roof on the tower and replace with profile cornice element.
Eliminate the red banding along the cornice line.
Replace the stucco wainscoting at the base with tile. (Submit the sample)
Submit exterior finish material sample (including awning canvas fabric) and color palette.
Submit exterior lighting fixture cut-Sheet.
Submit revised signage plans.
Submit photographs of other KFC/A&W site locations.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 6
2. DRC No. 3599 - KFC/A&W (Continued)
A motion was made by Committee Member Leonard Filner to continue the project, based on the
discussion above.
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
ABSTAINED
Susan Secoy
Alice Angus, Leonard
None
None
None
Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 7
3. DRC No. 3696 -ALL PRO REMODELING
Remodeling of an existing 3,220 sq.ft. commercial building to consist of adding an 800
sq.ft. second-story office space, 400 sq.ft. storage garage, new signage, parking lot
improvement and landscaping.
706 N. Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Mario Chavez-Marquez, Planning Aide
DRC Action: Final Determination
Staff requested to continue the project. (Property address location was erroneous on the
posted agenda)
A motion was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to continue the project.
SECOND:Susan Secoy
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 8
4. DRC No. 3698 - IMMANUEL LUTHERAN CHURCH
Addition of two new modular classroom buildings with decorative screen wall and
landscaping for an existing church school facility.
147 S. Pine Street
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
Present were Carol Tink and Steve Amore, church member, Chairman Property Board and
contractor.
Ms. Tink noted the location for the modular building expansion. She reviewed some of the
church history and indicated that the long-range plan is to expand the facility.
Mr. Amore gave the reasons for the expansion. Immanuel Lutheran current has 3 split
classrooms, 3-4, 5-6, and 7-8 grades. The goal is to have one classroom for each grade. The
church decided to do what everyone else has done, including St. John, that is, to bring in two
modular buildings, enroll the students to fill them, generate an income base and, within a few
years, complete construction of a permanent building to replace the modular buildings.
The meeting was opened for public comment:
Jeff Frankel and Robert Imboden, representing OTPA, expressed their concern about how long
the modular buildings would remain on site. Experience indicates temporary buildings tend to
remain forever. Other concerns included the obvious visibility of the buildings from Almond
Street and whether modular building had been approved for use since the adoption of the latest
standards.
Discussions then turned to the screen wall, which unifies the modular buildings with adjacent
buildings as far as warmth and rhythm. The respondents explained the use of a modified plaster
material with a stucco finish to match the school building. They further explained the location of
this screen, the security and access issues, as expressed by the Police Department, and the
landscaping.
A major reason for the "temporary" screen wall and potted landscape was to allow the church to
maintain their ball court for future use when a permanent building is completed. The Committee
indicated they would rather have in-ground landscape but issues might arise in the future
concerning re-establishing the ball court. Alice Angus indicated if the Committee were to make
a favorable decision on the design, "in-ground landscaping as long as the buildings remain"
could be conditioned. With that condition, if the modular buildings go away, so does the in-
ground landscaping.
The Committee wanted to review the plans again, including in-ground landscaping scenarios,
and additional screening along the south side of the modular building.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 9
4. DRC No. 3698 - IMMANUEL LUTHERAN CHURCH (Continued)
A motion was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to continue the project, based on the
discussion above.
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSENT:
ABSTAINED
Susan Secoy
Alice Angus, Leonard
None
None
None
Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 10
5. DRC No. 3703 -ROSS HOLMQUIST
Addition of new rear porch, replacement windows and water heater enclosure for an
existing Bungalow residence, and replacing a flat roof to a new gable roof and removing
the patio enclosure on a detached non-contributing accessory structure (hobby room) at
the rear of the property.
262 N. Cambridge Street (Contributing Structure)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation
DRC Action: Final Determination
Ross Holmquist indicated there are a variety of issues. The first is replacement of windows.
The windows were falling out and many windows would not open. He met with Mr. Ryan for an
on-site review. Mr. Holmquist has replaced all the windows except 2 front windows, which have
not been an issue. There were a series of miscommunications, not with the City, but with the
contractors. Mr. Holmquist was led to believe the City had approved the windows he selected.
That was not the case. The windows are of high quality wood, with smooth, painted fiberglass
exterior, and solid, clear, dual pane glass. They have been used for the side dining room, a
kitchen window, a laundry room window, and two bedroom windows.
Second, Mr. Holmquist is proposing the addition of a back porch to the rear of the property. A
portion of that porch is covered and it's located behind the house and is not visible from the
street. Mr. Holmquist indicated he would like to follow the gable roof lines from the house
because he may consider a room addition for that space in the future. It would be a logical
extension, affording a 3~d bedroom. There is a very small front porch and he wanted more porch
coming out of the back door. Right now, there are 3 concrete steps coming out of the backdoor
and a freestanding hot water heater, which would need to be relocated to create this porch.
The final issue is what to do with a leaning garage and two non-contributing structures. Mr.
Holmquist said he'd gone the full range, from tearing them down to patching them up. After his
fourth submittal, he came up with what he thought was a great idea, taking off the shed roof and
putting on a new gable roof to match the house and the buildings around it. He considered he
could make sense of that space, without changing the footprint. He wanted to fix it up, and re-
roof it, with the windows that are already there.
PUBLIC COMMENT:
Jeff Frankel and Robert Imboden of OTPA expressed their concern that the windows did not
comply with preservation standards. They were originally wood and should be replaced with the
same wood. Additionally if the Committee starts to approve alternative windows in the Old
Towne district, they wondered where it would lead. Considering this was a preservation project,
original materials should be used to maintain the historic character of the home.
Mr. Holmquist stated that he did price wood windows and the cost would total 10% of the value
of the home and was therefore, not a viable solution.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 11
5. DRC No. 3703 -ROSS HOLMQUIST (Continued)
The consensus of the Committee was there was no overwhelming proof that the windows were
worth salvaging. In fact, the Committee concluded that the entire project looks like Mr.
Holmquist was fixing a lot of previous mistakes.
The DRC recommended that Mr. Holmquist consult a building inspector before proceeding with
garage modifications. His plans just may not be possible. Dan Ryan also suggested Mr.
Holmquist discuss, with the Committee, his desire to replace the brickwork on the front of the
building. Mr. Holmquist stated that he wanted to enhance the front entrance of the house, but
financially, it would not happen for some time. Therefore, the issue is not part of this proposal.
The Committee asked Mr. Holmquist to return with more detailed plans for the patio structure
after obtaining input from an engineer.
A motion was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to approve only the replacement
windows, work relative to the garage, the existing studio and fireplace, and the relocation of the
water heater.
SECOND:Alice Angus
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 12
6. DRC No. 3706 - DARYA RESTAURANT
Addition of neon feature (open channel) to existing restaurant wall signs.
1998 N. Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau
DRC Action: Final Determination
Mr. Mohammed represented the applicant. Discussion centered around the material, which is
22-gauge sheet metal. He stated there will be three different channels. The reasons were
presented to the Committee to explain the necessity for installing neon lighting within a metal
channel.
A motion was made by Committee Member Susan Secoy to approve the project as submitted.
SECOND:Leonard Filner
AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 13
7. DRC No. 3707 -MATRIX SERVICE
New identification wall sign for a new office/industrial complex
500 W. Collins Avenue
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Approved as consent Item)
A motion was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to approve the project as submitted.
SECOND: Alice Angus
AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 14
8. DRC No. 3688 - STONEGATE SENIOR APARTMENTS
Final landscape plans for a new 20 dwelling unit senior housing project.
170 N. Prospect Street
Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Continued from 2-20-02 meeting)
Approved as Consent Item)
A motion was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to approve the project with the
following condition:
1. Submit final landscape and irrigation plans to Community Services Department for
approval. (Final Plan to include City required inspection notes)
SECOND:Alice Angus
AYES:Alice Angus, Mark Paone, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSENT:None
ABSTAINED:Leonard Filner, Susan Secoy
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 15
9. DRC No. 3549 - V.R.S.J. MEDICAL
Revisions to previously approved new medical office complex and parking structure.
230 S. Main Street
Staff Contact: Anna Pehoushek, Senior Planner
DRC Action: Final Determination
Prior to start of the meeting, the project applicant has requested a continuance of the project to
the next available meeting date)
A motion was made by Committee Member Mark Paone to continue the project.
SECOND: Alice Angus
AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Mark Paone, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
ABSTAINED: None
MOTION CARRIED
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for March 6, 2002
Page 16
DISCUSSION ITEM:
10. CITY OF ORANGE MAIN LIBRARY EXPANSION PROJECT
Preliminary review of design considerations for the proposed addition of a 39,000 sq.ft.
wing to the existing 17,000 sq.ft. Main Library facility.
101 N. Center Street (Non-Contributing Structure)
Staff Contact: Karen Sully, Planner Manager
DRC Action: Preliminary Review and Comment
The representatives were: Nora Jacob, City Librarian; Rick Otto, Economic Development
Project Manager, and James T. Wirick, Principal of LPA Architects and his staff.
Nora Jacob gave a brief introduction of the project in order to bring the Design Review
Committee up-to-speed on the Library's application for State Bond Act funds to expand the
City's Main Library. Mr. Wirick presented a sprint through the last century in terms of library
design, from the Carnegie Library to the present day, in terms of functionality, style, technology,
environment, and community comfort level. Mr. Wirick also traversed the history of the City of
Orange Library Tract from 1905.
In summary:
A Community Forum was held of February 23~d
A project proposal fora 30,000-40,000 sq.ft. expansion is moving through CEQA
Environmental Review. Another community meeting is scheduled March 16, 2002.
A Mitigated Negative Declaration has been requested.
Closure of a portion of North Center Street, from Chapman Avenue to the end of the
Bank of America parking lot has been proposed.
Offering the Edwards House for sale, to respect its historic character, has been
proposed.
The approval process must be accomplished speedily in order to meet State timelines.
The project's exterior building elevations is a requirement for the State.
The City of Orange must support the conceptual design drawings of the project.
Consensus among the Community, Design Review Committee, Planning Commission,
and City Council is required.
Ms. Jacob and Library project representatives will return to the DRC in early April for project
approval.
This item is intended for preliminary review and comment only, Design Review
Committee action is not required at this time)
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