02-07-2007 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
Committee Members Present: Jon Califf
Bill Cathcart
Donnie DeWees
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: None
7 February 2007
Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda-Roseberry, Planning Manager
Anne Fox, Contract Staff Planner
Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner
Sonal Thakur, Assistant Planner
Howard Morris, Senior Landscape Coordinator
Debbie Ritchey/Mari Burke, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:00 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
The meeting adjourned at approximately 7:30 p.m. to the next regular meeting on Wednesday,
February 21, 2007.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
Page 2 of 13
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
No public attendees addressed the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the
Agenda.
CONSENT ITEMS
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action.
The following two projects were approved by consent.
NOTE: motions were not received in the same chronological sequence as the agenda and appear
herein in the order heard.
7. DRC No. 4185-07 -WELLS FARGO TEMPORARY TRAILERS
A proposal to approve temporary trailers at the site of a Wells Fargo Bank building that
has been destroyed by fire.
2535 North Tustin Street
Staff Contact: Cathy Johnson, (714) 744-7225, cjohnson(r~cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
A motion to approve DRC No. 4185-07 by consent subject to the conditions in the Staff Report
and approval of the Orange Police Department was made by Craig Wheeler.
No public comment was provided on this item.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES:Jon Califf, Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSTAIN:None
ABSENT:None
MOTION CARRIED.
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Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
Page 3 of 13
5. DRC No. 4161-06 -ROYAL STREET COMMUNICATIONS - MONOPINE
A proposal to approve a monopine telecommunications facility.
5921 East Carver Lane
Staff Contact: Cathy Johnson, (714) 744-7225, ciohnson(cr~,cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Recommendation to Planning Commission
A motion to approve DRC No. 4161-06 by consent subject to the conditions in the Staff Report
was made by Donnie DeWees.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested the antennas be painted a darker green rather than being
painted to match the foliage.
No public comment was provided on this item.
SECOND: Bill Cathcart
AYES: Jon Califf, Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
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1. DRC No. 4119-06 - BHALLA TRIPLEX
Preliminary review of a proposal to demolish a 1,482 sq. ft. non-contributing one-story
duplex and construct a new two-story, 3,414 sq. ft., three-unit apartment including
covered and enclosed garages.
438-440 South Olive Street (Old Towne Orange Historic District)
Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714-744-7224, dryan(c~r~cityouforange.org
Prior Preliminary DRC Review on August 16, 2006
DRC Action: Preliminary Review Only
Dan Ryan, Senior Planner Historic Preservation provided a project overview consistent with the
Staff Report.
The applicant added that they were concerned with the reduction in FAR to the degree stated in
the Staff Report and reiterated by Mr. Ryan. Mr. Shiv Talwar pointed to two surrounding
buildings and stated they are much larger and that Mr. Ryan's calculations were derived by
taking an average that is impacted by the number of single story residences. Furthermore Mr.
Talwar stated once they start reducing the FAR they would be reducing the overall square
footage. Presently they are proposing three units and they may be forced to go to only 2 units,
which is not economically feasible.
Public comment was provided as follows:
Jeff Frankel, OTPA stated:
He agreed with Staff on the bulk and massing of the project. He thought it needed to be
brought way down.
Unfortunately the plans and Staff Report were not available at the library which precluded him
from doing a comprehensive review.
This particular block already has seven really large two story apartment buildings.
He agreed with Staff on all points raised except he thought the FAR should go even lower and
maybe move the second story development back further on the lot.
This project would add to the cumulative impact of the area.
He agreed that this property does drastically need improvement but the bulk and massing of
this particular project is way too large and they would like to see it brought down.
Janet Crenshaw, OTPA stated:
She walks the area frequently where this project is proposed.
She went to the library 3 times to obtain the Staff Report and plans to no avail.
She asked if there is a point where the total overall FAR could be considered.
Parking is already a huge problem in the area.
With all the second floor living space there needs to be consideration given to privacy.
Chair Califf asked Mr. Ryan to clarify the parking configurations. Mr. Ryan stated two units
have an enclosed garage and one has covered parking. A review of the overall measurements
including the open space was provided.
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Committee Member Woollett asked if the floor area of the buildings changed since the first
meeting and if so how much. Mr. Ryan responded affirmatively; they went from 2203 sq. ft. on
the first floor to 1963 and from 2360 on the second floor to 1724. The FAR has gone from .63 to
51. Mr. Ryan added that the critical area is the relationship of how much FAR is in the second
floor.
Committee Member Woollett stated his concern is if they aren't very careful on the mass issue, it
won't be long before the other non contributing structures will be torn down and this will set a
precedence which will mean the demise of the whole block. Mr. Ryan stated that he agrees they
need to look at the whole communal affect.
Committee Member Woollett stated he didn't even want to address the design until the bulk and
mass is handled. He cited an example of an effective handling of the bulk and mass, which is set
way back and has a different roof design. That particular structure is located directly across the
street. He added that he saw this as a dilemma for the developer and stated that the zoning rules
that apply to these parcels are at a variance with the Infill rules that need to be enforced. Mr.
Ryan interjected that Staff would be supportive of a reduction in the setback to 15' and offered
that the setback of the second floor would reduce the massing and create the desired streetscape.
Committee Member DeWees agreed with the statements made by Committee Member Woollett
and stated the big question he has is why didn't they take the committees previous suggestion of
lowering the plate heights. The applicant responded they could do that, he didn't think that was
an issue. The first floor has a 9' ceiling and the second floor is 8'. Chair Califf suggested they
go to 8'6" on the first floor. Committee Member DeWees recalled that 8'6" was a minimum to
the concession they were willing to make and their preference was to go to 8'. The applicants
agreed there would be no issue with going to 8'6".
Committee Member DeWees stated there were some things that could be done to tighten up the
plans and he pointed those out on the plans for the applicants. A huge concern he mentioned was
there appeared to be a whole sea of concrete and he suggested areas where there should be
landscaping to minimize the visual impact. Chair Califf added that they definitely have to
include the vine pockets that were mentioned previously.
Committee Member DeWees noted there were some discrepancies in the plans and asked if they
had decided to take off the exposed beam on the ridge. The applicant responded they would
keep one. Committee Member DeWees stated they should keep it clean and simple.
Committee Member DeWees remarked that the stone seemed very thin. Chair Califf stated he
couldn't think of a single home of this style in Orange that has stone---they are stucco including
the chimneys. Committee Member Wheeler agreed they shouldn't use stone. Chair Califf stated
they needed to pay attention to the other homes of this scale in the City.
Committee Member DeWees stated they also needed to pay attention to where the bed walls will
be located versus windows. Committee Member DeWees suggested they sit down and put
furniture layouts in and study how it will work. This could result in taking out mass from both
the first and second floor plans without losing anything in terms of viability to rent the units. He
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Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
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also mentioned there might be a problem with not enough risers in the stair well.
Committee Member DeWees recalled the suggestion to put a hip on the rear unit, as it would
help a great deal without compromising anything.
Mr. Talwar stated they could go back and make some changes but they are still concerned they
may not be able to achieve the reduction in the FAR to .42. Mr. Ryan reiterated that the issue is
primarily the second floor FAR.
Chair Califf asked if they had thought about the comment in the Staff Report relative to what you
see when you look down the driveway and he suggested reversing some things, which would
help the streetscape.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested a Ramada style carport that would be less massive than a
garage.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that although the hip was a suggestion made at the last
meeting, if they elect to not do it he would prefer to see the ridge on the front unit running in the
other direction so there is a lower wall facing the street. He commented they had done a lot to
simplify the number of arches but there is still a small problem where there are two different
styles and a single style would be an improvement.
Committee Member Wheeler stated a lot of inaccuracies still exist in the drawings that need to be
remedied when they come back again (examples of the inaccuracies were provided i.e. cantilever
overhangs not shown in all places, window placements that are incorrect, the plate heights are
not accurate).
Committee Member Wheeler stated the stone doesn't wrap the corner and should. As clay the is
more traditional than concrete, Committee Member Wheeler suggested they change to clay. The
applicant responded they would make that change.
Committee Member Wheeler stated they still want to see a privacy study as to how the windows
on the second floor relate to the buildings on either side.
Chair Califf stated:
If you modified the entry, if it was single story and up near the 10 ft setback, as long as the
second story sets back, it would be better.
The open space needs to be addressed, as it may not meet the requirement.
Due to the amount of concrete, it should be broken up i.e. stamped or use pavers. Locations
where this is applicable were pointed to on the drawings along with the areas where vine pockets
need to be included.
Parking was discussed as some of the spaces are marked "guest". The applicant stated there are
two spaces per unit plus one guest.
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Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
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The FAR was discussed again with Chair Califf stating that it actually has more to do with what
the project looks like as you can have a lousy looking .4 FAR project or you can have one that
works at .45. The absolute number is less important than how it fits in. It was unanimous that
the bulk of the second floor is the issue. The applicant asked if they could redesign it to reduce
the bulk of the second floor if he could still retain the FAR at .49 or .5. Chair Califf responded
they weren't going to commit whether that would work or not but he added reducing it by 600'
or 700' may or may not be necessary to achieve the desired result; reducing the mass of the
second floor or how it's placed on the site is key.
Chair Califf asked for the drawings to be marked North-South-East-West and for the type of
windows, materials of the windows and trims to be called out. He pointed out that in Old Towne
even with the Infill Residential Design Guidelines they typically still require the use of
historical-type windows i.e. single hung, double hung, casement, awning, not horizontal sliders.
Committee Member DeWees asked that they show the break ups and how they plan to do the
divided lights.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested they use a different garage door. Chair Califf stated that
although it was the right scale it wasn't an appropriate style.
Chair Califf stated the degree of one of the cantilevers bothered him somewhat in that it was
cantilevering over fairly narrow support.
Committee Member Cathcart provided a handout of the Landscape Design Guidelines from the
Landscape Coordinator and reiterated that he had requested at the last meeting they were to
incorporate a minimum of two 24" box trees on the site and a street tree which should be
coordinated with the City's Street Tree Coordinator.
Committee Member Cathcart suggested they do away with the fountain in the front yard stating
it was out of place and would be a maintenance nightmare. He reiterated that he would like to
see a landscape plan that was to scale with the names of the plant materials and the quantities
specified. He provided a list of the notes that belong on the plans; reminded the applicants that
irrigation plans with an automatic sprinkler system should be provided and the vine pockets on
the north property wall should be included.
Committee Member DeWees made a motion to continue DRC No. 4119-06.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
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2. DRC No. 4124-06 - NOONAN RESIDENCE
A proposal to construct a new second story, as well as an addition to the first floor of an
existing single-family residence.
2338 East Altura Avenue
Staff Contact: Sonal Thakur, 714-744-7239, sthakur cr,cityoforange.org
Continued from November 15, 2006 DRC Meeting
DRC Action: Final Determination
Assistant Planner Sonal Thakur provided a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Mr. Noonan stated he took off the front entry and the decks and set the whole house back to the
ridgeline. He confirmed he did raise the height (approximately 1') as stated by Ms. Thakur and
added that he can bring it down somewhat if that is a request of the Committee. Mr. Noonan
stated he thought he had done everything the committee had previously requested.
Chair Califf stated his comment is somewhat similar to what he had said at the last meeting; the
mass on the second floor appears to be stacked up and he was hoping it would be pushed back a
little further.
No public comment was provided on this item.
Mr. Noonan stated he would do what it takes and asked what it was the Committee wanted him
to do. Chair Califf responded he would like to see the form stepped down although he wasn't
sure what it would take to accomplish that. Furthermore, he stated he was bothered that it was a
fairly uniform mass.
Committee Member Wheeler stated what bothered him was that he still didn't see compliance
with the Infill Guidelines as it is proposed to be the biggest in regards to mass on the street. Mr.
Noonan stated based on the direction of the Committee when he was told it was preferable to see
a little more roof, he stepped it in. He added there was also a request to have it to the ridgeline
and now it appears there needs to be further clarity as to what is requested. Committee Member
Wheeler stated his reaction is if you are going to do something this large, the roof should plane
on the front in its entirety without anything showing i.e. everything on the second floor needs to
have egress and windows to the left or right and not to the front. Mr. Noonan responded that
then you would have to be concerned with privacy issues as you'd be looking out onto your
neighbors. Committee Member Wheeler agreed and added that the whole idea for the Infill
Guidelines is to prevent building huge houses that don't agree with the neighborhood and the
Committee needs to enforce the guidelines. Mr. Noonan responded he was familiar with the
guidelines and asked what else the Committee wanted.
Committee Member Wheeler stated a big improvement was made on the looks of the front.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that he was a little disturbed by the fact that the back looks
like a totally different house from the front although he thought that was perhaps not uncommon
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
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in the neighborhood. Chair Califf stated the addition of at least one Dutch gable on the back of
the house would help with this issue. Mr. Noonan was amenable to the addition of a gable.
Committee Member Woollett stated he was reluctant to weigh in on the project at this point, as
he was not present for the previous meetings. Chair Califf advised that the original proposal was
not in keeping with the characteristics of ranch and that he still feels that way although he
acknowledged they have taken a big step in the right direction by cleaning up the roof.
Committee Member Woollett stated he had been to the neighborhood and looked around. His
concern with this project is it would be a whole different scale than the other structures there and
he thought it would be difficult to put a second floor in that particular neighborhood.
Mr. Noonan stated he is right at the peak of the ridgeline; was anxious to move into the house
and therefore wanted to know what the committee would like him to do to move the project
along. Committee Member Wheeler pointed out if he did a different stair arrangement he could
push a wall back further and create an image of having two second story elements to avoid
having a continuous second story element all the way across. Committee Member Wheeler also
requested the materials be shown on the drawings and perhaps the applicant look for a more
interesting gable vent---wood was suggested.
Chair Califf stated most of the homes have a flat roof the and he asked Mr. Noonan what style of
roof the he intended to use. Mr. Noonan responded two of them have terra cotta, barrel style and
he intended to use a small barrel style. Chair Califf stated he recommended not doing that and
Committee Member Wheeler added he thought a flat the was more appropriate. Chair Califf
stated he didn't see any terra cotta in the neighborhood. Mr. Noonan interjected there was one
up on the left that was put on after he bought his house. Mr. Noonan also stated the next time he
came in he would bring in a roof sample.
Committee Member Wheeler asked to have the windows and trim match existing and to have all
existing and proposed materials clearly labeled on the plans.
Chair Califf made a motion to continue DRC No. 4124-06 with the guidance provided by the
committee.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
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Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
Page 10 of 13
3. DRC No. 4148-06 -WANG RETAIL CENTER
A proposal for a new retail building.
130 East Taft Avenue
Staff Contact: Sonal Thakur, 714-744-7239, sthakur rx,cityororange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Associate Planner Sonal Thakur provided a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
The applicant added there is an alley behind them and the fence had been knocked down several
times. The architect reviewed the color scheme with the committee and was asked if he was
amenable to the Staff suggestion to change the color in the front to create more depth and make
the building entrance "pop out". The applicant responded they could do that.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the cornice should wrap the corner and not stop abruptly.
The applicant agreed.
Chair Califf reviewed the size of the parking stalls where the planters are situated citing that for a
commercial building the depth is not really sufficient. He advised the applicant that something
less than 15' deep makes it difficult to park. Ms. Thakur responded that was an oversight and
that it needs to be 18x8-1/2.
Committee Member Woollett asked where the stucco finish would stop and the block would
start. The applicant responded they would be doing stucco all the way around. Committee
Member Wheeler suggested they not stucco a portion that abuts another building and pinpointed
that portion on the drawings.
The discussion ensued about the landscape area and the parking lot. Ms. Thakur advised that
they could modify or add more landscaping as 10% of the parking lot needs to have landscaping.
Committee Member Cathcart indicated that the plant material specified is not appropriate. He
suggested a ground cover in the front and society garlic along the wall.
Committee Member Cathcart stated the backflow device should have a wire enclosure around it
for security purposes. Furthermore, the turf area needs to be flat (no mounds) as you can't have
water runoff onto a public right of way. Chair Califf asked if MPDES requires covering the trash
enclosures. Committee Member Cathcart responded the trash needs to have a flip cover.
Chair Califf asked if the trash enclosure area should be stucco finished to match the building.
Committee Member Cathcart indicated they have vines on it, which is okay; however, they are
specifying Star Jasmine which won't cling so there has to be some methodology to attach it or
they need to change the variety of vine. The applicant responded they would leave that to their
landscape architect. Committee Member Cathcart suggested the addition of another Crape
Myrtle to balance the entry and it should be a mildew resistant variety. Other changes stated by
Committee Member Cathcart were:
the 4" pop-ups should be changed to 6" pop-ups
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Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
Page 11 of 13
the 6" pop-ups should be changed to 12" pop-ups
the lateral class PVC 200 should be Schedule 40B
Committee Member DeWees indicated his concern was the enormous cornice on a small, simple
building. Committee Member Wheeler suggested the use of a contemporary cornice that
matches the edge of the overhang. It was agreed that would be a cleaner, more consistent look.
Committee Member DeWees made a motion to continue DRC No. 4148-06.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Jon Califf, Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: Donnie DeWees
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
Page 12 of 13
Chair Califf announced that all other items had either been consented or withdrawn.
Withdrawn items included:
Item #4. DRC No. 4150-06 -THE BIRD CLINIC.
and
Item #6. DRC No. 4169-06 -THE CINGULAR WIRELESS, CHURCH SANCTUARY.
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Meeting Minutes for 7 February 2007
Page 13 of 13
REVIEW OF MINUTES:
Chair Califf made a motion to approve the minutes of the January 17, 2007 meeting with
revisions as noted.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES:Jon Califf, Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSTAIN:None
ABSENT:None
MOTION CARRIED.
ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Chair Califf to adjourn until the next regular meeting on Wednesday,
February 21, 2007.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Bill Cathcart, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.