11-21-2007 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES -FINAL
21 November 2007
Committee Members Present: Jon Califf
Donnie DeWees
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: Bill Cathcart
Staff in Attendance: Ed Knight, Assistant Planning Director
David De Berry, City Attorney
Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner
Howard Morris, Senior Landscape Coordinator
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session - 5:00 P.M.
The Committee met for an administrative session beginning at 5:15 p.m.
Chair Wheeler opened the Administrative Session with a review of the Agenda. There was no
discussion. There were no items to discuss regarding Policy and Procedures.
The Committee Members reviewed the minutes from the October 17, 2007 meeting. They noted
changes and corrections needed.
Committee Member DeWees made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:22 p.m.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
The meeting adjourned at approximately 6:10 p.m. to the next regular scheduled meeting on
Wednesday, December 5, 2007.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2007
Page 2 of 8
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
No public attendees addressed the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the
Agenda.
CONSENT ITEMS:
All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the
Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate
discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff or the
public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action.
1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: October 17, 2007
Committee Member Califf made a motion to approve the minutes of October 17, 2007 with
changes as noted.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
2) DRC No. 4285-07 -STADIUM PROMENADE SERVICE AREA
A proposal to enclose a breezeway to create a service area for two restaurants located in
Building 6 of 157,834 square foot commercially developed entertainment center known
as the Stadium Promenade.
1547 W. Katella Avenue
Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714-744-7237, cortlieb@cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Final Determination
Chair Wheeler asked if any of the Committee Members wished to discuss the item. There was
no discussion or questions.
Chair Wheeler consulted the applicant to verify he understood all the conditions in the Staff
Report and that the applicant felt comfortable to have the item approved by consent, with the
following additional condition:
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Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2007
Page 3 of 8
1. The applicant shall submit landscape and irrigation plans to the City Staff for final
approval.
The applicant, Robert Atkinson, address on file, stated he understood the conditions and agreed
to have his project approved by consent. He stated on the design, the intention was to route the
patrons around the front of the building. They had met with the Police Department, and they
agreed that the area, at one time, had a potential to be a cause for nuisance. In consolidating the
service areas and getting the patrons toward the front would benefit the patrons and the business
area.
Committee Member Califf made a motion to approve DRC No. 4285-07, Stadium Promenade
Service Area, by consent.
SECOND: Joe Woollett
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2007
Page 4 of 8
AGENDA ITEMS:
3) DRC No. 4296-07 -PRIME CUTS CAFE
A proposal to establish a restaurant and wine bar in a 6,804 square foot vacant tenant
space located in a 157,834 square foot commercially developed entertainment center
known as the Stadium Promenade. Facade additions and outdoor seating are proposed
for the exterior portion of the building that would be occupied by the business.
1547 W. Katella Avenue, #101
Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714-744-7237, cortlieb@cityoforange.org
DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Staff Senior Planner Chad Ortlieb presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicants, Ken Dunkley, Kevin Diez, and Robert Atkinson, addresses on file, were present to
answer questions.
Mr. Diez stated he was concerned with the pilaster that was in between the Prime Cuts Cafe'
building and The Auld Irisher establishment. The pilaster was a great divider between both
restaurants; it would actually make them stand out from each other. Aesthetically, they wanted
their own pilasters to match.
Committee Member DeWees asked what the position of The Auld Irisher was on the pilaster
issue.
Mr. Diez stated they had not spoken with The Auld Irisher. Mr. Diez added that they did not
realize it was split, and felt it was a more significant architectural statement that defined the
Prime Cuts Cafe' space. He also stated that it added to the attractiveness of their facility.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Wheeler opened the item for Committee discussion.
Mr. Atkinson, property landlord, stated that he had spoken with the Auld Irisher and felt they
were neutral on the pilaster issue. They recognized that the finish of the pilaster was a superior
finish, in the sense that The Auld Irisher was using plaster. Prime Cuts Cafe had proposed
extending the column to create more of a neutral pier, and it would be covered in stone.
Committee Member DeWees stated it appeared the symmetry was important to the Prime Cuts
project and not to The Auld Irisher. If they were neutral about it, and that is what the landlord
would like, he would rather see the symmetry.
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Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2007
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Chair Wheeler stated he understood The Auld Irisher was having the exterior fabricated in
Ireland and brought over. The covering for the pilaster might already be complete.
Mr. Atkinson stated he understood the pilaster on The Auld Irisher was to be plaster. The
fabrication portion would be in a different area where the restaurant lettering would go. He
commented that there were some color similarities, The Auld Irisher store front was red and the
Prime Cuts Cafe was more of a rust color.
Committee Member DeWees and Committee Member Califf reviewed the material board for
clarity.
Mr. Ortlieb provided a color board to the Committee.
Chair Wheeler stated he was concerned with the front area and the canopy, he asked the
applicant to show them the exterior elevation plans. He also wanted to see a side elevation.
Mr. Diez stated there would be two new pop-out pilasters in the front.
Mr. Dunkley stated the eyebrow would be skinned to make it more of an awning. It would be
covered, and was not clearly depicted in the drawing.
Mr. Diez explained the existing eyebrow would be raised with new mahogany wood elements.
Committee Member DeWees clarified the eyebrow was being thinned and clad, as the drawing
showed a much thicker eyebrow.
Chair Wheeler clarified there would be a glass canopy with stainless steel ribs. Mr. Diez stated
that was correct.
Committee Member DeWees stated the canopy looked so thin and he felt they needed something
more substantial and wanted to see the side elevation. Mr. Diez stated they could provide a
drawing.
Committee Member DeWees asked the applicant if they were married to the foam cornices.
Mr. Diez stated they would like to keep them. Committee Member DeWees asked the applicant
if it was necessary to have all of them, and pointed out on the drawings which ones, he
suggested, should be eliminated. He felt the drawings were a bit confusing.
Committee Member Califf was concerned as to how the cornices would terminate, as it appeared
the cornices would be narrower than the pilasters.
Committee Member DeWees stated the drawing did not show how the cornice would terminate.
He made a suggestion to keep it as a simple cap and have cornices only at the entry. The design
could be solved in that manner.
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Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2007
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Chair Wheeler stated The Auld Irisher did not have the foam cornice. He felt it was not
consistent, and to have the foam cornice on one length of the building and not on another, lost
the buildings identity.
Committee Member DeWees stated when construction started the cornice would stick out further
than the pilaster.
Mr. Dunkley stated they needed to make sure that the angle of the cornice top piece would not be
so pronounced, so it would marry into the pilaster on the end. He was concerned that loosing the
cornice across the top would make the area look too prominent. The applicant also felt, without
the cornice it did not tie together with the remainder of the space.
Chair Wheeler stated there were no other cornices in the center; it would be a very unique form
for that area.
Committee Member DeWees stated it was frosting. Mr. Dunkley felt it added continuity and tied
things together.
Committee Member Califf stated the problem was that it worked fine to create some excitement
and identity, however, in trying to carry it around it would look odd.
Committee Member DeWees stated the applicant made a nice effort to use substantial materials
of stainless steel and stone, but felt with the addition of the foam cornice it was adding a retail
element. He asked if this restaurant was a chain or a single store.
Mr. Dunkley stated it was a single store. He felt the cornice added to the angles to fit in with the
angular effect of the front tower. It was used to change the straight lines and add some
architectural interest. He had not thought about the retail effect it created.
Committee Member DeWees stated that the foam cornice was discussed by the DRC all the time
and they had seen so much of it. He asked if the cornice would be returned on the sides.
Mr. Dunkley stated another type of continuity could be created around the front with the use of
paint colors, and a painted strip. He stated that the cornices would be returned on the side.
Chair Wheeler stated it would be a good solution, and compliment The Auld Irisher.
Committee Member Califf stated that the color could be added to the existing strip. Mr. Dunkley
stated that the theatre had a similar color treatment. He would accept that as a condition.
Committee Member DeWees asked what the one vertical slope stripe on the awning was for.
Mr. Diez stated it was a decorative stripe on the awning just to add some color.
Chair Wheeler stated the parapet should be boxed out on the back. The eyebrow or canopy on
the left would need to match, and they needed to have hardware underneath to support them.
Committee Member DeWees stated they should check the shell drawings as the canopies could
be fake.
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Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2007
Page 7 of 8
Chair Wheeler stated there were sconces, and asked for clarification on the lighting.
Mr. Diez stated the pilasters would have wall sconces and backlighting on the sign. There would
be no up lighting on the canopy.
Committee Member Califf stated he believed there were wall sconces on The Auld Irisher
building. He asked Staff if the building signage was being dealt with or would it be a separate
submittal.
Mr. Ortlieb stated it could be dealt with as shown. Staff would also require a different submittal
for Staff review, for conformance with the existing sign program. The Committee could make
suggestions, or place conditions on the sign.
Chair Wheeler asked if there were any changes to the landscape.
Mr. Ortlieb stated "No, there were not."
Mr. Diez stated he thought the addition of potted palms to the entry would be nice.
Committee Member Califf deferred to Howard Morris, Senior Landscape Coordinator, for his
input on the potted palms.
Mr. Morris stated potted palms would do well as long as they were watered. If they did not tie
into the irrigation system, with a drip system, the applicant would want to insure there was a
regular watering system. Generally, manual watering was discouraged; however, in this case it
might be necessary.
Chair Wheeler asked the applicants if they were familiar with the conditions in the Staff Report.
The applicants stated "Yes." Mr. Dunkley asked if there was a preference on the material for the
pilasters.
Chair Wheeler stated the preference would be for stone.
Chair Wheeler made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning Commission, DRC No.
4296-07, Prime Cuts Cafe, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report, and the
additional conditions:
1. The cornice as shown on the drawing be removed on the two long sides of the building; the
cornice may remain on the two elements above the entry. The cornice on the middle element
shall be returned 18" to 2' on each end, and cornice at the top should wrap around completely.
2. The new eyebrow canopy on the north end be designed to match existing.
3. Pilaster on the east and south facade shall be stone to match pilaster on the north end.
City of Orange -Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2007
Page 8 of 8
SECOND: Donnie DeWees
AYES: Jon Califf, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.
ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Committee Member Califf to adjourn to the next regular meeting on
December 5, 2007.
SECOND:Craig Wheeler
AYES:Jon Califf, Donnie DeWees, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES:None
ABSTAIN:None
ABSENT:Bill Cathcart
MOTION CARRIED.