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11-21-2001 DRC MinutesCITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES for Wednesday, November 21, 2001 Committee Members Present: Alice Angus Leonard Filner (Vice Chair) Susan Secoy Joe Woollett (Chair) Staff in Attendance: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner Howard Morris, Landscape Coordinator Sharon Penttila, Recording Secretary Committee Member Absent: Mark Paone Administrative Session - 4:30 P.M. The committee met for an administrative session beginning at 4:30 p.m. The meeting adjourned at approximately 7:00 p.m. Regular Session - 5:30 PM REVIEW OF MINUTES: A motion was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the October 24, 2001 minutes with the following corrections: Committee Members Absent: amended as follows: P~e~e Alice Angus DRC #3614 - Greg & Marilynn Early paragraph 1, sentence 1 add the following: Committee Member Susan Secoy stated she would be abstaining from this item as she is representing the applicants. Paragraph 4, sentence 1 amended as follows: Committee Member Joe Woollett asked approximately how far back to the west does the existing roof go. Paragraph 8, sentence 2 amended as follows: He also asked if the front efeva~ien setback of the house is the same as the neighboring houses. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 2 REVIEW OF MINUTES: (Continued) Page 3 paragraph 5, sentence 2 amended as follows: 2) regarding listing as contributing structure; Mr. Dan Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation, noted in his report that with the proposed modifications to the original structure, l:ha~ that it would no longer be eligible for listing as a contributing structure. Paragraph 5, sentence 2 amended as follows: The elevations that are being modified are the ones that have already been modified to such an extent that there is not a significant historical value issue. Paragraph 7, sentence 3 amended as follows: He is curious to see how that develops because it appears that there aye is limited space a~ with opportunities for landscaping along the wall. Page 4, paragraph 1, sentence 2 amended as follows: Now that the plans have been revised, but with maintaining the integrity of the original structure, he is swayed in favor of the project. Condition 2 amended as follows: 2. T~af The sleeping porch consists of a roof over trellis. DRC #3677 - Fazoli's Restaurant page 5 paragraph 2, sentence 1 amended as follows: Committee Member Susan Secoy asked why they decided to go with two different roof materials standing seam metal vs. tile). Paragraph 5, sentence 1 amended as follows: Fred Cook stated that he is hesitant ~~ to put up a wall because security can be an issue. Paragraph 10, Sentence 3 amended as follows: Mr. SeelES Cook's concern was that the client may feel he is losing too much of the character of the look of an Italian Restaurant. Sentence 5 amended as follows: Committee Member Leonard Filner felt this was not a problem and that the parapet doesn't necessarily have to look like the rest of the center, it needs character. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 3 REVIEW OF MINUTES: (Continued) Page 6, paragraph 1, sentence 2 amended as follows: If the decision were made to use the standing seam metal roof, the project would be approvable at this time. Condition 5 amended as follows: 5. Applicant shall provide a standing seam metal roof throughout with plaster type molding or provide barrel the roof throughout with parapet either barrel the or plaster and if the option using the is chosen, applicant shall return to DRC with a revised materials board for final approval. Condition 7, sentence 1 amended as follows: 7. If the applicant chooses to use the standing seam metal roof with the crown molding, the revised plans may be reviewed and approved by City staff and would not require further review by the DRC. SECOND:Leonard Filner AYES:Leonard Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES:None ABSENT:Mark Paone ABSTAINED:Alice Angus A motion was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the November 7, 2001 minutes with the following corrections: DRC #3675 Town & Country Carwash Paqe 3 paragraph 6 sentence 2 amended as follows: The applicants had the building reviewed for compliance with "Feng Shui" (The Chinese Art of Placement) and to advise them on exactly what needed to be painted to draw more attention to the business. DRC 3679 -Steak Escape page 6 paragraph 4 sentence 2 amended as follows: T#ey~+va~ He wants to look at the project and get an answer that works for the building. Sentence 4 amended as follows: He stafes said that the other tenant needs to come up with an idea how the whole building could be ~ upgraded, resolve sign problems, and bring the whole thing together. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 4 REVIEW OF MINUTES: (Continued) Sentence 7 amended as follows: Ms. Koh feels this puts her client in a difficult position, +^ ~~~ so that they can't open the business because they don't have cooperation from tenants or landlord. Paragraph 6, sentence 3 amended as follows: He would hope something can be worked out to change the existing parapet. Page 7 paragraph 1, sentence 1 amended as follows: Committee Member Joe Woollett understands there is a problem with the sign at the check cashing place and asked if Ms. Koh was aware of this, to which ~e she answered, "Yes, and that she had been told". Paragraph 2, sentence 4 amended as follows: Ms. Koh stated the project would be re-evaluated to go with the original proposal deep to keep the building w~ele as is. SECOND:Alice Angus AYES:Alice Angus, NOES:None ABSENT:Mark Paone ABSTAINED:None Leonard Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 5 DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD New landscape planter and replacement brick staircase at the front porch of an existing residence in Old Towne. 230 S. Grand Street (Contributing Structure) Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation DRC Action: Final Determination Continued from 9-5-01, 10-10-01 & 11-7-01 DRC meetings) Committee Chair Joe Woollett explained that it is the jurisdiction of the Design Review Committee to evaluate whether or not the installation of the brick steps is in compliance with the code. He stated that the committee was aware of other buildings in the area that did not comply with code, however, this application was presented to them and it is not the committee's jurisdiction to decide if it should have been brought before them. Mr. Kenneth Bryant -Attorney, spoke on behalf of Mr. Donald Bernard. Mr. Bryant referred to the "Historic Preservation Element" citing the fact that two of the four properties in the booklet have brick steps. He explained how Mr. Bernard put the brick steps in without any knowledge that he was doing anything wrong and they did it because they thought they were improving their property in accordance with the rules. Mr. Bryant stated that the rules talk about the relationship of materials and how a variety of materials, when properly used, can add to the distinctiveness of a neighborhood by using common materials such as brick. He shared photographs of the property before and after the brick steps were installed. He asked that an exception be made since Mr. Bernard had no idea he was violating any rules. Mr. Bryant asked if there was some way to go before the Planning Commission for a variance because the bricks improve the value and looks of the property. The meeting was opened for public comments: Jeff Frankel, 384 S. Orange Street, Old Towne Preservation Association - He stated that both the Secretary of Interior Standards for Rehabilitation of Historic Structures and the Old Towne Design Standards had numerous passages that conflict with what the applicant had done. He explained that altering the entrances and porches, which are important in defining the overall historic character of a building, diminishes the character of historic property. He felt that it would set a precedent for anyone who wanted to remove historic fabric, replace it with something that is inappropriate and come back before the DRC and say they did not know. He would like to see the porch restored back to its original configuration with its original materials. Tim Morton, 225 S. Grand Street- He stated that the porch is not gone and only the steps have been altered. He felt that the job the mason had done on the steps was extremely attractive. He thought the neighborhood was being turned into something that nobody really wanted except certain people who held themselves up as experts. Julie Kramer, 271 S. Grand Street -She stated that she liked the way the steps look. She felt that no porch had been torn down because only the steps had been replaced. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 6 DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD (Continued) Robert Imboden, 45 Plaza Square - He was concerned with the process and the precedent that this would create. He thinks that it is heading in the wrong direction if projects that have not been approved are used as benchmarks. Anita Bernard stated that the properties on North Grand Street near Chapman University and on Cambridge Street are all doing brickwork. She has seen other historical houses putting in modern windows and she wonders why they are picking on her. Mr. Bryant had found that the California Environmental Quality Act states that minor and reversal or appropriate changes to the original structure is proper. He found the General Plan for Old Towne states that the City will work to assure that quality, safety and livability of the housing stock in the City is continuously maintained and/or upgraded and that the City will encourage the maintenance, preservation and upgrading of the quality of the residential neighborhood. He said that no permit was required to replace the steps. He felt these steps could be defined as a walkway and that there were no standards for walkways or planters. Committee Member Susan Secoy stated that this is not a comparison of any other projects in Old Towne and the committee is only reviewing the project brought before them. She understands the hardship on the applicant, but the project has to be evaluated on the basis of the Secretary of Interior Standards and this violated those standards. She also stated that there is a review process in Old Towne when you want to modify your valuable property. The DRC is here to assist the homeowners by reviewing their ideas as it is documented on a plan, and that is how this situation could have been avoided. Mr. Bryant explained that Mr. Bernard did not understand there was a process for review since replacing the steps did not require a permit. Committee Member Leonard Filner asked if the applicant had made any of the changes that the committee had recommended initially, since no new or revised plans have been submitted to the DRC tonight. The plans that were submitted originally included raised planter walls on both sides of the steps. He would like to know if that applicant was willing to take into consideration some of the recommendations that were made at the initial meeting on 9/5/2001. Committee Member Susan Secoy stated that the steps had not been presented in the proper format. There is a DRC Submittal Checklist that includes a plan, elevations and materials that must be submitted before it is presented to the DRC. Committee Chair Joe Woollett knows that the applicant would like to keep the steps, but he also wants to know what the extent of the request is. Mr. Bryant did not realize that there were issues other than the steps City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 7 DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD (Continued) Committee Member Susan Secoy explained that a proper submittal, which would include drawings, samples of color and material, has not been submitted. The major concern is that the brick element is not consistent with the Craftsman style home, and the examples cited in the Historic Preservation Element shows the brick element on a Mediterranean style home. Committee Member Leonard Filner further stated that the sloping sides of the steps are not appropriate for this style of home. Mr. Bryant thought this could be resolved if the problem was only the edge of the stairs. Committee Member Leonard Filner said that a formal plan, requesting the squaring off of the stairs, must be submitted. Mr. Bryant said that he would recommend to his client to try and resolve it, so that the steps are made compatible with the Craftsman style. Committee Member Leonard Filner stated that he does not have an issue with the use of bricks because it is listed in all the guidelines and preservation codes. Committee Chair Joe Woollett explained that the examples given to the committee tonight would either not have been approved, or the brick were used on a different style of building would have been deemed appropriate. This committee would not have approved the brickwork done by the applicant. Even though he is sympathetic to Mr. Bernard's situation, it would be wrong to accept this because it would establish a precedent. This project can only be evaluated on the basis of its conformance with the standards. The DRC cannot deviate from the given standards. It has to be taken to a higher governing body such as the Planning Commission and the City Council. Mr. Bryant asked if this matter could be continued if they submitted a plan that conforms to the Craftsman style. Committee Member Susan Secoy replied yes. Committee Member Alice Angus explained that the committee is in charge of upholding the aesthetics and design compatibility as it relates to the historic district. The City's design standards do talk about replacement materials and the integrity of those materials. It must be consistent with the Secretary of Interior Standards. Covering the bricks with a different material, making it more traditional to the style and period of this home, had been discussed at the previous meeting. She would like to see some modifications to the design. Mr. Bryant requested a continuance in order to discuss it with the City's professional staff to see if there is a way to adjust the sides of the steps so that it would conform to the Craftsman style. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 8 1. DRC No. 3669 -DONALD BERNARD (Continued) Committee Member Susan Secoy stated that the minimum submittal requirements needed to review this project have not yet been met. The Planning Division has that DRC Submittal Checklist available at the counter. Committee Chair Joe Woollett asked staff to provide Mr. Bryant with the guidelines that were originally discussed with suggestions on the revisions that could be made and copies of the minutes from the initial 9/5/2001 meeting. A motion was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to continue the project until the first meeting in January 2002. SECOND:Susan Secoy AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES:None ABSENT:Mark Paone ABSTAINED:None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 9 2. DRC No. 3682 -CRABBY BOB'S SEAFOOD GRILL Fagade remodel for a new tenant in an existing restaurant building. 2045 N. Tustin Street Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner DRC Action: Final Determination John Rex -Architect, presented the project. The proposal is to remodel the existing restaurant building with some minor changes to the exterior. New corrugated metal roofs and new lighting fixtures have been added to compliment the seafood theme of the new restaurant. The existing siding and stucco would remain the same and the entire building would be re-painted. The colors of the building would be very close to what exists currently. The awnings would be green and white and the window frames are red. The parking lot would be re-striped as necessary for handicap accessibility. Committee Chair Joe Woollett stated the neon should be a part of the signage submittal package. A motion was made by Committee Member Alice Angus to approve the project as submitted. The approval was based upon the finding that the project design upholds community aesthetics through the use of an internally consistent, integrated design theme and is consistent with all adopted specific plans, applicable design standards and their required findings. SECOND:Susan Secoy AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard NOES:None ABSENT:Mark Paone ABSTAINED:None Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 10 3. DRC No. 3683 - SAV-ON DRUGS Signage program for a new retail drug store. 4040 E. Chapman Avenue Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner DRC Action: Final Determination Dennis Stout, the applicant, presented the project. He was proposing a scaled down version of the typical signage for Sav-on minus some of the secondary signs. Committee Chair Joe Woollett asked if the individual letters are internally illuminated, and noted that the small "Exit Only" signs are illuminated cabinets. The meeting was opened for public comments: Roy Shahbazian 3808 E. Palm Avenue - He was pleased that the applicant was not constructing a sign on the corner because of the pedestrian traffic. He was concerned with the pedestrian access through the parking lot and near the drive thru window, which could create a hazard. He thought that the pedestrians would not interfere with vehicular traffic if the parking lot and the drive-thru window were placed at the rear of the structure. Committee Member Susan Secoy noted the only item being reviewed was the signage and she had no problem with the submittal. A motion was made by Committee Member Alice Angus to approve the project with the following condition. The location of the two new freestanding signs shall comply with the code requirement for minimum 15 ft. setback for vehicular sight distance. The approval was based upon the following findings: 1. The proposed signage utilizes materials, colors, and design motifs that are compatible with the building that is being identified. 2. The proposed signage will not adversely affect surrounding land uses or obscure adjacent conforming signs. 3. that the project design upholds community aesthetics through the use of an internally consistent, integrated design theme and is consistent with all adopted specific plans, applicable design standards and their required findings. SECOND: Leonard Filner AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard NOES: None ABSENT: Mark Paone ABSTAINED: None Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 11 4. DRC No. 3684 -BOB & MARVA HITCHCOCK Modification of an existing non-contributing detached stucco garage/2~d unit, into a garage/workshop to match with the existing Craftsman Bungalow primary residence 195 N. Shaffer Street Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation DRC Action: Final Determination Approved as Consent Item) A motion was made by Committee Member Susan Secoy to approve the project as submitted. The approval is based on the following findings. 1. The proposed work conforms to the standards and design criteria referenced and/or recommended by the Design Review Committee or other reviewing body for the project. 2. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Rehabilitation and Guidelines for Rehabilitation and infill development guidelines within a Historic District. 3. The proposed work will neither adversely affect the significant architectural features of the building, nor adversely affect the character of historical, architectural, or aesthetic interest or value of the building, its site, or the surrounding area. 4. The project as proposed meets the exemption criteria under the City's Local CEQA Guidelines. SECOND:Alice Angus AYES:Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES:None ABSENT:Mark Paone ABSTAINED:None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 12 5. DRC No. 3686 -PATRICK & CYRUS JEANNETTE New 553 sq.ft. addition to an existing 1,064 sq.ft. single-story Bungalow to include a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, and stairs that lead to a 195 sq.ft. loft area. 324 N. Cleveland Street Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation DRC Action: Final Determination Patrick Jeannette, the owner/applicant, presented the project. He submitted a plan for a room addition to the back of his house, which includes a bathroom, bedroom and a small loft. He had an architect design the plans so they concur with the Old Towne Design Standards. The color of the house, the composite type roof and the rock surrounding the front of the house would all match the existing throughout the property. The meeting was opened for public comments: Jeff Frankel, 384 S. Orange Street, Old Towne Preservation Association - He wanted to review the project and felt it was sympathetic to the original structure. He wanted to be sure the same type of siding and wood frame windows are utilized. Janet Crenshaw, 464 N. Shaffer Street -She wanted to know, since the garage goes all the way across the back of the property, if there would be any room for a garden. Also she wanted to know how much of the land would be covered by building. Patrick Jeannette responded that the trees would remain by the garage and he estimated that the building would cover 60-70% of the land. Jeff Frankel noted that the plans did not show a line of demarcation, which is a requirement of the guidelines. Committee Chair Joe Woollett explained that the standards require the wall be off-set or that a board be placed on the outside of the building to make it clear where the old and new structures come together. He suggested the closet could be inset by 6 inches. Chuck Lau, Associate Planner, suggested, in this particular case, that the closet could also extent outwards even though it encroaches on the setback. Committee Chair Joe Woollett also noticed that the elevation plan showed continuous steps along the deck but it doesn't show on the floor plan, making the intent of the steps unclear. Mr. Jeannette asked if the cement steps should concur with what is currently there, which are pavers. Committee Member Susan Secoy stated since this is new construction; it does not have to be the same as what is currently there. City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 13 5. DRC No. 3686 -PATRICK & CYRUS JEANNETTE (Continued) Committee Chair Joe Woollett was concerned with the location of the steps, the door and the corners. He questioned if the Uniform Building Code would require handrails with that many steps. He informed the applicant that they might not want such a long expanse of steps because it may require a handrail. Modifying the steps would also help to resolve the awkwardness of the corner. A motion was made by Committee Chair Joe Woollett to approve the project with the following condition: 1. If the Uniform Building Code requires modification to the broad steps at the rear of the structure, the revised plans shall be reviewed and approved by Mr. Dan Ryan, Senior Planner -Historic Preservation. The committee found the project to be in accordance with the following findings required for the Old Towne District. 1. The proposed work conforms to the standards and design criteria referenced and/or recommended by the Design Review Committee or other reviewing body for the project. 2. The proposed work complies with the Secretary of the Interior Standards for Rehabilitation and Guidelines for Rehabilitation and infill development guidelines within a Historic District. 3. The proposed work will neither adversely affect the significant architectural features of the building, nor adversely affect the character of historical, architectural, or aesthetic interest or value of the building, its site, or the surrounding area. 4. The project as proposed meets the exemption criteria under the City's Local CEQA Guidelines. SECOND: Leonard Filner AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: Mark Paone ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED City of Orange -Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 21, 2001 Page 14 6. DRC No. 3687 - ALUMA SYSTEM New freestanding sign for an existing industrial facility. 412 W. Levers Place Staff Contact: Chuck Lau, Associate Planner DRC Action: Final Determination Approved as Consent Item) A motion was made by Committee Member Susan Secoy to approve the project as submitted. The approval was based upon the finding that the project design upholds community aesthetics through the use of an internally consistent, integrated design theme and is consistent with all adopted specific plans, applicable design standards and their required findings. SECOND: Leonard Filner AYES: Alice Angus, Leonard Filner, Susan Secoy, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSENT: Mark Paone ABSTAINED: None MOTION CARRIED DRC 11-21-01 Minutes