2001 - December 17
APPROVED
MINUTES
Planning Commission
City of Orange
December 17, 2001
Monday -7:00 p.m.
PRESENT:
ABSENT:
STAFF
PRESENT:
INRE:
INRE:
4.
5.
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Pruett, Romero, Smith
None
Karen Sully, Planning Manager,
Gary Sheatz, Assistant City Attorney,
Jerry Bailey, Design Manager - Public Works
Elaine Steinhardt, Recording Secretary
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION - None
ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 2388-01 - COUNTY OF ORANGE - SOCIAL
SERVICES AGENCY
A proposal to convert an existing office building to offices for a social service agency.
The project will require tenant improvements to reconfigure floor area to new office
arrangement. The project does not include any changes to the site plan or exterior of the
existing building. The site is developed with a 41,300 sq. ft., two-story office building, a
10,000 sq. ft. warehouse, and 210 parking spaces. The zoning of the site is M-l (Light
Manufacturing). The site is located at 744 & 746 N. Echoff Street.
Ms. Karen Sully, Planning Manager, explained it recently came to light that there was no
need for a conditional use permit for this request and she asked that the item be
withdrawn. Assistant City Attorney Gary Sheatz further explained that the City and
County are exempt from each other's regulations; therefore, a public hearing is not
required for this request. A letter to the County stating conformity with City zoning will
sufficiently address the request.
ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 2001-003 - TEMPORARY USE PERMIT
A proposal to establish a permit application and review procedures for nonrecurring
temporary uses such as modular buildings and outdoor storage, and seasonal, annual or
recurrmg uses.
NOTE:
This project is categorically exempt from the provisions of the California
Environmental Quality Act per State CEQA Guidelines Section 15305
(Class 5, Minor Alterations in Land Use Limitations).
RECOMMENDED ACTION:
Continue item until January 21,2002.
Ms. Karen Sully, Planning Manager, indicated that staff was still working on the legal
aspects of the ordinance amendment and that the item would be ready for Commission
review in January.
Planning Commission Minutes
APPROVED
December 17, 200 I
MOTION
Moved by Commissioner Romero, seconded by Commissioner Bonina to accept withdrawal of
Conditional Use Permit 2388-01 and continuance of Ordinance Amendment 2001-003 until the Planning
Commission meeting of January 21, 2002.
AYES:
NOES:
Commissioners Bonina" Brandman, Pruett, Romero, Smith
None
MOTION CARRIED
INRE:
CONSENT CALENDAR
1.
APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE REGULAR MEETING OF DECEMBER
3,2001.
MOTION
Moved by Commissioner Romero, seconded by Commissioner Bonina to approve the Minutes of
December 3, 2001 meeting, with the following correction to the last paragraph on page four: "... because
Pep Boys has a receiving area and an unsightly trash collection in that area and Commissioner Bonina
said he is in favor of screening it."
AYES:
ABSTAIN:
NOES:
Commissioners Bonina, Romero, Smith
Commissioners Brandman, Pruett
None
MOTION CARRIED
There was a short discussion concerning the width of the street fronting a site located at 5028 East Glen
Arran Lane, which was the location of a request heard at the December 3, 2001 Planning Commission
meeting. It was pointed out that the City had not yet determined the exact width of the street because it is
a private street. According to Jerry Baily, Design Manager - Public Works, property owners on private
streets have the option of designating the width of the street. Assistant City Attorney, Gary Sheatz, asked
the Commission to continue discussion of this item under New Business of the Agenda.
INRE:
NEW HEARINGS
2.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 2385-01- P. J.'S ABBEY - (GARY MEAD)
A proposal to upgrade an existing ABC License from an On-Sale Beer and Wine Eating
Place (Type "41") to an On-Sale General Eating Place (Type "47") and to allow live
entertainment and banquet facilities at P. J.'s Abbey Restaurant. The zoning ofthe site is
C1 (Limited Business) located within Old Towne. The site is located at 182 S. Orange.
NOTE: This project is categorically exempt from the provisions of the California
Environmental Quality Act per State CEQA Guidelines Section 15301 (Class I -
Existing Facilities).
RECOMMENDED ACTION:
Adopt resolution PC-40-01 approving Conditional Use Permit 2385-01.
In the absence of the applicant or a representative, the Planning Commission voted 5-0 on a motion made
by Chair Smith, seconded by Commissioner Brandman, to trail the item in anticipation of the arrival of
someone to represent the request.
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Planning Commission Minutes
APPROVED
December 17, 2001
3.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 2386-01 - POLKA DELI
A proposal requesting to upgrade an existing Off-Sale Beer and Wine (Type 20) License
to an Off-Sale General (Type 21) License to allow the sale of alcoholic beverages at an
existing grocery market/delicatessen, and for a Planning Commission Finding of Public
Necessity or Convenience. The zoning of the site is C-TR (Limited Business - Tustin
Street Redevelopment District). The site is located at 1710 N. Tustin Avenue.
NOTE: This project is categorically exempt from the provisions of the California
Environmental Quality Act per State CEQA Guidelines Section 15301 (Class 1 -
Existing Facilities).
RECOMMENDED ACTION:
Adopt resolution PC 41-01 approving Conditional Use Permit 2386-01.
Ms. Karen Sully. Planning Manager, presented highlights of the staff report, and she explained the
business has been operating at the present site for seven years and to date, there have been no problems.
She said staff was recommending approval of the CUP.
Because there was no one present opposing the request, Chair Smith waived reading the full report.
The applicant, Dariusz Swiatkowski, asked for flexibility in the hours he was allowed to be open. He
explained he would like the opportunity to be open on Sundays because then it would be possible for him
to get customers from a wider area. He asked for Sunday hours of 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. and suggested that
perhaps during holidays he may wish to remain open until 9 p.m. on Sundays.
There was a discussion between the applicant and the Commission concerning the hours of operation.
Commissioner Bonina explained it was his opinion that hours the business is open should be a decision
made by the applicant and should not be limited by the Planning Commission, but he said there should be
a limit on the hours that alcohol is allowed to be sold.
Commissioner Brandman asked how the hours could be limited in conjunction with the present request
for an expansion of the beer and wine license. Chair Smith explained it could be done through the
conditions of approval.
When Chair Smith questioned whether the conditions were the original conditions or new conditions, Ms.
Sully explained the original conditions are still applicable. Commissioner Brandman was interested in
whether it was appropriate to approve the request and then allow the applicant to request particular hours.
Assistant City Attorney Sheatz explained that conditions were imposed to mitigate any identified impacts.
Chair Smith pointed out that condition of approval number 2 in the draft resolution called for the business
to remain closed on Sundays. Commissioner Pruett said the sale of alcohol is controlled by the Alcohol
Beverage Control, who is not interested in controlling the hours of the business. Commissioner Bonina
recounted that the request was to upgrade the ABC license to also allow the sale of liquor and he repeated
that the hours of the sale of liquor is pertinent to the request and the hours the business may be open
should be advantageous to the applicant.
Chair Smith spoke of the standardization of hours for off-sale licenses and asked if similar businesses had
to conform to specific hours. She asked if this was a break in tradition. Mr. Sheatz said the Police
Department generally imposed hours that were appropriate and if they did not specify, the hours would
not be controlled. Commissioner Brandman asked if, while the Commission considered the request for
expansion of the liquor license, they could also consider expansion of the hours.
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Planning Commission Minutes
APPROVED
December 17,2001
When Chair Smith inquired as to the applicant's desire relevant to business hours, Mr. Swiatowski said he
would like to keep the business open until 9 p.m., seven days a week.
No one else wished to speak on the request and the applicant had no questions nor any information to add.
The Chair closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Pruett requested that hours be imposed to prevent any problems from arising later. He
suggested hours from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m., seven days a week would prevent any future business from
being allowed totally unregulated hours.
Mr. Sheatz explained that ABC tells applicants they need land use approval for expanded hours and
hopefully ABC will impose the same conditions. Commissioner Pruett stated that historically there have
been restrictions applied to hours for liquor sales. Ms. Sully stated that the Police Department does not
apply conditions but they do review requests with the conditions attached and she agreed that historically
hours have been conditioned.
MOTION
Moved by Commissioner Pruett, seconded by Commissioner Brandman for adoption of resolution PC 41-
01 approving Conditional Use Permit 2388-01, based on the findings in Section 1 of the resolution and
subject to conditions of approval 1 through 14 in Section 3 of the resolution, with modification to
condition of approval number 2 as follows:
2. The business hours of operation shall be 1000 a.m. to 10:00 ~p.m. 7 days per week Monday
thru Friday, 10:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.rn. on Saturdays, and closed on Sundays. Any future
expansIOn. . .
AYES:
NOES:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Pruett, Romero, Smith
None
MOTION CARRIED
During a discussion previous to voting, Commissioner Pruett said he moved to increase the hours because
of the applicant's request and he limited them to protect the City for future business applications that may
occupy the site.
Chair Smith and Commissioner Bonina discussed controlling hours for on-sale and off-sale liquor
licenses and whether the Commission imposed limitation of the dispensing of liquor one hour before
closing on both kinds of licenses. Chair Smith said they have been trying to bring all on-sale licenses into
conformance with ceasing sales of liquor one hour before a business closes but they have never limited
off-sale licenses that way. All Commissioners agreed it was appropriate to limit the hours as suggested
and Commissioner Brandman added she was happy to see a successful business expand.
The Commission returned to Item Number 2. In the interim, the applicant arrived at the meeting.
Because no one was present in opposition to the request, Chair Smith waived full reading of the staff
report.
Ms. Sully reviewed the information in the report and announced it was staffs recommendation to approve
the requested conditional use permit. There were no questions for staff.
Gary Mead, applicant and owner ofP.J.'s Abbey, reported the restaurant was established in 1995 after he
restored the building. He noted it has been difficult for him to be successful and he tries to publicize the
City of Orange with the tourist council because he is interested in attracting Disneyland vacationers to
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Planning Commission Minutes
APPROVED
December 17, 2001
Orange, which he stated is very possible if Orange is well presented. He also explained he had to
participate in a lottery with larger establishments to receive clearance to apply for an ABC "type 47"
license. He added that P.J.'s Abbey has never been a problem for the community.
Responding to Commissioner Bonina's inquiry as to whether the restaurant operates at the same time the
banquet room is in use, Mr. Mead said the establishment was able to accommodate several different
groups at one time. He said the public area of the restaurant served when the banquet area was in use for
private parties since the banquet room is situated in the rear portion of the building. He explained that at
times, they do close the restaurant and a private party or wedding may take over the entire premises.
Commissioner Bonina asked if noise from restaurant activities was ever a problem. Mr. Mead announced
he had never received complaints except for rare occasions when the patio speakers were not turned off.
He said that the only residences that could be affected were those on the opposite side of Almond Street,
since the restaurant was surrounded by business properties except for the residences noted.
Commissioner Bonina asked about the size of the restaurant and whether there was a bookstore on the
premises. Mr. Mead answered that the restaurant business area was just under 5,000 sq. ft. and that there
had never been a bookstore operating on the site, although when he first purchased the property he had
considered establishing a small bookstore along with the restaurant. Ms. Sully explained that the original
conditional use permit allowed a bookstore. Commissioner Bonina said he thought the ABC license was
based on a 3,000 sq. ft. restaurant and a 700 sq. ft. patio, with some area devoted to a bookstore.
Mr. Mead stated the actual restaurant area was approximately 3,000 sq. ft. with about a 2,000 sq. ft.
kitchen. Mr. Bonina expressed his concern that the restaurant was operating in an area much greater than
originally reported. Planning Aide Mario Chavez-Marquez, project planner, informed those present that
originally in order to open the restaurant, the bookstore was required as a measure to alleviate potential
parking problems. He said originally the entire restaurant was to be 3,000 sq. ft. with a 700 sq. ft. patio,
and the remaining 2,000 sq. ft. was to be used as a bookstore. He referred to condition of approval no.3.
on page 2-12 and to page 2-19 of the staff report.
Ms. Sully directed attention to condition of approval no. 5 on page 2-12 of the staff report, which requires
an application for a lot line adjustment. She said the same requirement was included in the original
approval for the restaurant but it was never complied with. She explained that there would be closer
scrutiny and any approval would be contingent on completion of the lot line adjustment. She also noted
that condition of approval no. 18 prohibits music on the patio.
There was further discussion between the Planning Commission and Staff concerning the total size of the
restaurant space and the square footage that had originally been approved. Commissioner Bonina
expressed concern that the required parking was based on at 3,000 sq. ft. restaurant and 4 years later there
is a 5,000 sq. ft. restaurant. He inquired as to what steps should be taken now to deal with the parking
impacts. Mr. Mead interjected that the banquet and restaurant seating space was closer to 3,700 sq. ft.
with the remaining area occupied by the kitchen. Mr. Bonina stated that it was his experience when
referring to restaurant square footage, it included the entire use, not just the restaurant. He reiterated his
concern that the original approval was based on a 3,000 sq. ft. restaurant and a 2,000 sq. ft bookstore.
Commissioner Brandman also voiced her concern about parking impacts and asked staff to report the
actual size of the restaurant. Mario Chavez-Marques said the building area was 5,200 sq. ft.
Responding to Commissioner Brandman's question concerning the number of parking spaces required,
Mr. Mead said there were suppose to be 10 parking spaces per 1,000 sq. ft., which translates into 52
required parking spaces to accommodate the existing 5,200 sq. ft of building space. The Commission and
Staff discussed parking in Old Town and it was noted that no business in Old Town is able to meet the
parking code. Mr. Mead said that parking was okay under the original approval because he purchased the
adjoining property to provide parking space, and the restaurant staff was asked to park in other lots. But
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Planning Commission Minutes
APPROVED
December 17, 2001
the parking was still substandard then and they could not conform to the parking requirements for this
new upgrade. Commissioner Bonina pointed out that there were 21 parking spaces dedicated to the
business in the parking lot to the north and that 58 spaces were required for the restaurant and banquet
area.
There was no one present in the audience who wished to address the request. Mr. Mead explained that
the impact of the banquet facilities on available parking was not a constant thing and they have been able
to accommodate everyone between public parking lots, their private parking lot and street parking. But
he said that since he could not keep people from parking in the restaurant parking spaces during the Street
Fair, at that time each year, they experience parking problems. He reminded the group that his business
did not cause police problems.
Chair Smith pointed out several discrepancies in the original conditional use permit approval, Resolution
No. 8775. She referred to condition of approval number 3.a. on page 2-19 of the staffreport that states no
alcohol will be served, when on page 2-18 the facts state the request is for a conditional use permit to
allow the ABC to issue an on-sale beer and wine license. She also referred to condition number 1 on page
2-20 that mistakenly reports the restaurant square footage to be 5,000 sq. ft with an additional 700 sq. ft.
for the patio.
Commissioner Romero expressed his concern for the hours of operation and for live entertainment. Mr.
Mead explained that the live entertainment generally consists of a 3 piece jazz trio that starts at 6 p.m. and
concludes at 9 p.m. He said that there could be a DJ for weddings and the music might playas late as 10
p.m.
Commissioner Romero brought attention to the fact that there was nothing in the conditions requiring that
serving alcohol must cease one hour before the establishment closes. Mr. Mead said that although it
wasn't spelled out in the conditions of approval, he intends to follow that requirement.
Commissioner Bonina confirmed with Mr. Mead that a DJ played music upon occasion. He asked if the
trio mentioned by Mr. Mead had amplification and if so, could they be heard with the door closed. Mr.
Mead said the trio is amplified but they had no speakers outside and could not be heard when the door
was closed.
Responding to a request from Chair Smith, Mr. Mead explained the history of the building and how he
started the restaurant. He explained that the First Baptist Church was built in 1891 and in 1991 when the
church could not afford restoration, he purchased it from the church and he is presently paying off the 20
year loan the church is carrying. He said the redevelopment agency helped him with the purchase and he
has never missed a payment. He said the restoration and their offer of alternative dining has benefited the
downtown and the plaza. He explained he was seeking to succeed with the restaurant to the point where
people will come to Orange to shop and then to dine at their restaurant. He explained he aspires to help
make Orange into a city that attracts people who have come to vacation in Southern California.
Mr. Mead and Chair Smith discussed the fact that when the restaurant proposed to open, there was no
available parking and at the City's suggestion, they chose to buy the lot to alleviate the lack of available
parking spaces. Chair Smith pointed out there was no parking originally attached to the church. Mr.
Mead said that parking was difficult downtown and a parking structure would greatly improve conditions.
Commissioner Brandman asked staff to address acquisition of an additional parking lot in Old Town. Mr.
Mead said the City purchased property to the north sometime ago and a three story parking structure was
proposed there but the plans had been abandoned. He was very much in favor of the plan. Mr. Mead had
no additional comments.
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Planning Commission Minutes
APPROVED
December 17, 2001
Commissioner Bonina reviewed the present request to upgrade the ABC license. He referred to page 2-7
of the staff report and asked for clarification concerning whether alcohol could be served on the patio.
Ms. Sully said alcohol could be served on the patio, but explained that the patio was enclosed.
Commissioner Pruett questioned staff on the square footage as stated on page 2-12 of the staff report and
asked that it be corrected to 5,000 sq. ft.
Chair Smith closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Bonina discussed the fact that the Police Department recommended approval even though
there is an over-concentration of ABC licenses in the area. Ms. Sully explained that the over-
concentration had been mitigated and Chair Smith added that many liquor licenses were approved in the
area in an attempt to revitalize downtown.
Commissioner Bonina and Mr. Mead talked about the maximum occupancy for the restaurant with Mr.
Mead explaining that 108 people may be accommodated in the restaurant and occupancy for the coffee
shop is 22 people, with space for 25 people on the patio and 51 people in the banquet area. He also said
that maximum occupancy is rarely reached. Mr. Chavez-Marquez said the Fire Department did not
express concern with the occupancy. Ms. Sully and Mr. Chavez-Marquez agreed the building was under-
occupied when Commissioner Bonina asked if the building was over-occupied.
MOTION
Moved by Commissioner Romero, seconded by Commissioner Brandman for adoption of resolution PC
40-01 approving Conditional Use Permit 2386-01, based on the findings in Section 1 ofthe resolution and
subject to conditions of approval 1 through 25 in Section 3 of the resolution, with the following
modifications:
Conditions of Approval
3. The existing building shall be used for a restaurant (J,OOG-5,000 sq. ft within the building and 700
sq. ft. within the patio)...
4. The restaurant hours of operation shall be 6:00 AM. to 11:00 P.M., Sunday through Thursday,
and 6:00 AM. to 12:00 midnight, Friday and Saturday.
. Sales, service and consumption of alcoholic beverages shall be permitted only between the
hours of 11:00 AM. and 10:00 P.M. Sunday through Thursday, and 11:00 A.M. to 11:00
P.M. on Friday and Saturday or one hour before closing if hours change.
AYES:
NOES:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Pruett, Romero, Smith
None
MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Brandman said she supported the motion but she was concerned about parking in the
downtown area. She said she understood the license would be monitored but she was concerned and she
would like to begin working on the parking problem in that area.
Chair Smith agreed and said it may be a good opportunity for a study session.
Commissioner Pruett also discussed the downtown parking issue stating there had been suggestions for
metered street parking as a way to encourage people to park in the parking lots. He said there was a
shortage of parking convenient to downtown businesses, but parking was available in the perimeters of
downtown. He said he did not think parking was a problem to the extent that it is considered a crisis. He
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Planning Commission Minutes
APPROVED
December 17, 2001
said if it were a crisis, it would be dealt with. He noted that there was not a problem drawing business to
the area.
Chair Smith reminded the applicant of condition of approval number 5 and emphasized that the request
would not go forward without compliance with the requirement for a lot line adjustment.
INRE:
NEW BUSINESS
Commissioner Brandman asked about Fire Department access to homes on private streets in regard to a
request heard at the December 3, 2001 Planning Commission meeting. She expressed interest in whether
it was possible to ask for another on-site parking space. Ms. Sully said the project was reviewed by the
Fire Department and they did not respond negatively.
Chair Smith expressed approval of Commissioner Brandman's question because she said it will most
likely come up again. Commissioner Pruett recalled the project that the Commission was referring to and
it was approved at the last meeting; he did not wish to discuss it especially since the applicant was not
present. He said he thought the question would need to go through appropriate channels and it could then
be decided how similar problems could be handled in the future.
Ms. Sully said she would report back to the Commission with information concerning parking on private
streets. Commissioner Bonina stated he thought Commissioner Brandman was asking for clarification on
private street arrangements.
Commissioner Bonina requested that the pertinent maps be included with reports concerning requests for
ABC licenses. Ms. Sully explained staff is working on formulating census tract maps with the Police
Department and they will be happy to include them with the reports.
INRE:
ADJOURMENT
MOTION
Moved by Commissioner Pruett and seconded by Commissioner Romero to adjourn to the training
session on Monday, January 21,2002 at 5:45 p.m.
AYES:
NOES:
Commissioners Brandman, Bonina, Pruett, Romero, Smith
None
MOTION CARRIED
The meeting adjourned at 9 p.m.
8