2003 - November 3
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MINUTES
November 3, 2003
Monday -7:00 p.m.
Planning Commission
City of Orange
PRESENT:
ABSENT:
PRESENT:
INRE:
INRE:
INRE:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Domer, Pruett, Smith
None
Alice Angus, Director of Community Development
Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager/Secretary
Brent Mullins, Chief Building Official
Gary Sheatz, Assistant City Attorney
Roger Hohnbaum, Assistant City Engineer
Jerre Wegner, Recording Secretary
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None
ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITBDRA WN: None
CONSENT CALENDAR: None
1. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FROM THE REGULAR MEETING OF
OCTOBER 6, 2003.
MOTION
Moved by Commissioner Brandman and seconded by Commissioner Smith to continue to next
meeting of November 17, 2003.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Brandman, Pruett, Smith
None
Commissioners Bonina, Domer
None
MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS: None
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS:
2. ORDINANCE AMENDMENT NO. - RECREATIONAL VEmCLES
A proposal by the City of Orange to amend various sections of the Orange Municipal Code in
order to provide definitions and regulations for the parking and storage of recreational vehicles
within the city limits. This item was continued from the October 6, 2003 meeting.
NOTE: This project is categorically exempt from the provisions ofthe California Environmental
Quality Act per State CEQA Guidelines Section 15305 (Class 5 - Minor Alterations in
Land Use Limitations).
RECOMMENDED ACTION:
Adopt Resolution No. 40-03 recommending to the City Council the approval of
Ordinance Amendment No. (Recreational Vehicles).
Planning Commission November 3, 2003
APPLICANT: City of Orange
After recelvIllg public testimony at the October 6, 2003, Planning Commission meeting
regarding the proposed Recreational Vehicle Ordinance, the Commission continued the item
until the November 3, 2003, meeting. Additionally, the Commission requested that staff review
the public comments and return an Ordinance for their consideration which incorporates minor
changes.
Brent Mullins, Chief Building Official, presented revised changes that have been made III
response to comments and testimony made at the October 6, 2003 meeting. Specifically:
1. The maximum length of the Recreational Vehicle, which may be parked or stored within
the front yard, has been increased to 36 feet.
2. Allow the Recreational Vehicle to be parked or stored on 1/2 of the driveway.
3. The Recreational Vehicle must be at right angles to at least one property line and must
be kept reasonably clean and orderly.
4. Recreational vehicles may be stored in up to 1/2 of the enclosed and covered parking
garage.
5. The retention of the provision to require the parking or storage on a paved surface.
Following Mr. Mullins' presentation, the Commission initiated discussion on the proposed
changes.
Chairman Pruett expressed the following concerns:
. His preference for permitting parking on the front driveway, not the front yard due to affects
on the adjacent neighborhood.
. The pad utilized for parking the vehicle in the front yard should be adjacent to the existing
driveway. There are some cases where RV owners have an additional pad in their front yard
which raises issues such as amount ofhardscape in the front yard and additional curb cuts.
. The Commission should address the issue of motorized versus non-motorized vehicles. The
non-motorized vehicles need to be either in the side or back yard behind a fence or in the
garage.
. Finally, all RVs parked in the front yard or front setback need to be perpendicular to the
front property line in order to not block the fayade of the house.
Commissioner Brandman expressed the following concerns:
. For the record, with all due respect, she absolutely vehemently disagreed with Chairman
Pruett, on his comments regarding the difference between an RV and a trailer.
Commissioner Brandman said she was pleased that the presentation reflected her opinion
on this matter to not differentiate between a motorized versus a non-motorized vehicle.
. Commissioner Brandman was less concerned by two driveways than by a concrete pad in
the yard to house multiple RVs and felt the issue could be addressed through the current
requirements for percentage ofhardscape to landscape.
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Planning Commission
November 3, 2003
The Commission discussed a motorized versus a non-motorized vehicle and parking versus
storage.
Commissioner Smith stated she was pleased that the new revision limits the parking of an RV to
one vehicle and does not differentiate between motorized versus non-motorized. She agreed
with the Chairman that she doesn't want to see houses blocked by the presence of an RV in a
front yard. Commissioner Smith also stared a concern for how to deal with all of the existing
vehicles that don't comply with the proposed ordinance.
Commissioner Brandman also questioned code enforcement violations.
The Commission discussed the parking of the RV in the front driveway and adjacent pad, and if
there were a need for a second driveway, then it would be addressed.
Commissioner Domer stated that he is not in favor of this current direction regarding the setback
_ he stated a preference to preserve the 20' front yard setback for the benefit of the community.
Commissioner Domer asked for clarification of the new revision, whether it had been looked at
by the Fire Department (i.e., allowing access to the structure during an emergency) regarding the
issue of parking of RV s right up next to a house, and where they are placed along the property
line (adjacent to the house next door), etc.
Commissioner Brandman stated a need to put together recommendations to address the impacts
of parking RV's on the surrounding neighborhood. She suggested that in addition to defining an
RV, the City should also craft some verbiage regarding the camper shell issue, and storage of an
RV.
Chairman Pruett stated a concern regarding parking within the required 20' setback and prefers
to maintain the setback. Parking the vehicles up against the house windows in the side yard may
create an issue of fire safety by potentially blocking egress.
Commissioner Domer reiterated the fact that he would like to see us keep the code as it exists,
but allow for those people who may not currently be in compliance.
The Commission discussed a permit option. Commissioner Domer stated that a permit would
allow you to further define the code and that you simply revoke the permit or don't renew it. It
allows for more flexibility without changing the code. It didn't require the Commission to
define what's storage, what's permanent, etc.
Commissioner Smith expressed the following:
. That Commissioner Domer's idea of the permit process be added as an addendum for
the Council for their action and that a conditional use permit could be an option.
. It is reasonable to limit to the number ofRVs to one, of36' in length, and should not be
taller than 12'.
. A preference to see an increase to the required two feet from the side property line.
. She suggested that maybe there could be a requirement that a recreational vehicle could
not block more than a certain percent of a front facade or front of a home.
Chairman Pruett referred to page 2-06 of the staff report when stating his proposal:
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Planning Commission
November 3, 2003
. Section 3F, should read, "for the purpose of this section the parking storage of
passenger vehicles shall be limited to a paved surface leading to the required
parking structure or area."
. Section 3G, "For the purpose of this section, the driveway shall also include a pad
parking/storage area adjacent to the driveway."
o Item 2, should read, "The recreational vehicle is parked or stored on a paved
driveway surface" keeping in mind that the definition also includes the
adjacent pad.
o Item 4, he agrees with Commissioner Smith, that we need to change 2' to 3'.
o Item 5, should read, "The recreational vehicle is stored at right angles to the
front yard property line." (So it is not parallel to the property lines.)
Chairman Pruett stated he would like it noted in a comment to the Council that he still believed
there should be a definition of motorized versus non-motorized vehicles. Commissioner
Brandman wanted to ensure that truck campers were discussed. Mr. Mullins suggested an
addition as #7 on page 2-06 in the ordinance that states that a RV must be trailer mounted or on
an appropriate vehicle intended for towing.
Commissioner Bonina expressed concern about the timeframe for allowing people to adhere to
this new code, as well as discussion regarding corner lots, the setback issue, and the amount of
footage that is appropriate to be allowed at the property line.
Commissioner Brandman stated that she would like to suggest that we send forward a
recommendation to the Council that we allow people who are not in compliance to be
grandfathered in as long as the RVs are clean and neat looking.
Commissioner Smith stated three items of consideration to forward to the Council for its
consideration:
(1) A permit process,
(2) Grandfathering existing storage situations, and
(3) Parking of recreational vehicles on public streets.
Commissioner Bonina also stated that he believed that we did need to allow for a period of time
for people to become compliant with this new recommendation. There followed a discussion
regarding the length of time allowed for grandfathering. Chairman Pruett indicated a preference
of a six-month compliance period. He also stated that it should be limited to the existing
vehicle. Commissioner Domer stated that he would only be in favor of grandfathering if we kept
the current code, but not making changes to the code.
Commissioner Smith suggested that we publish the new rules in the water bill so that it
addressed the issue of what was allowed, as well as what was not allowed, under the new
revisions.
The City Attorney was consulted by Chairman Pruett and advised the Commission to re-open
the public hearing.
Chairman Pruett suggested a motion to adjourn for a recess at 9:30pm.
MOTION
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Planning Commission
November 3,2003
Moved by Commissioner Brandman and seconded by Commissioner Smith to adjourn the
meeting for a 10 minute recess:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Domer, Pruett, Smith
None
None
None MOTION CARRIED
Recess for 10 minutes.
IN RE: Reconvene the meeting.
MOTION
Moved by Commissioner Brandman and seconded by Commissioner Smith to reopen the public
hearing at 9:40pm.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Domer, Pruett, Smith
None
None
None
Chairman Pruett advised the audience that what the Commission needed to hear was technical
information that would help them in the decision, not several people speaking on the same issue.
The following audience members spoke to the issues:
Charles Schroeder, 2752 Burly Avenue
Neva Whitaker, 625 E. Adams
Jeff Mulford, address on file
Mel Vernon, 2301 E. Hoover Avenue
Dorthy Stewart, 1126 N. Grand Street
Mike Stewart, 1126 N. Grand Street
Lois Barke, 2022 W. Spruce
Toni Carlton, 3106 Hillcrest
Mark Sheppard, 4428 E. Euclid
Mil Thornton, 1243 E. Trenton
Stephen Heilman, 1429 E. Oakmont Avenue
Jeff Goodpaster, 441 S. Parker Street
MOTION:
Moved by Commissioner Smith and seconded by Commissioner Brandman for purposes of
discussion, that:
The Commission adopt resolution number 40-03 recommending to the City Council that we
approve the draft ordinance on recreational vehicles, with the following changes:
(1) In section 3 on page 2-06, that the wording discussed earlier in tonight's staff meeting in
changing the wording in sections F and G that included driveway other than front yard (already
stated and not repeated here).
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Planning Commission
November 3, 2003
(2) Retain the three feet distance on all property lines and call out to Council to pay attention to
that.
(3) Add in Section G camper shells not being allowed unless on a vehicle.
(4) Add wording that once ordinance is approved, the full text be added in the City water bill or
its equivalent -- purpose being to get it to the fullest public notice possible.
(5) Recreational vehicles must be stored at right angles to the property line.
The Commission discussed the above motion. Commissioner Smith suggested the Commission
discuss a second motion for items for the Council to entertain that were outside the ordinance.
Chairman Pruett suggested that the amortization issue and grandfathering issue should be
considered as a separate item since he did not support the 12-month period as agreed by the
other commissioners. The Commissioners discussed whether to include in one motion or two.
There was significant discussion, also, on the timeframe allowed for the grandfathering.
Commissioner Smith requested that, as the maker of the motion, the 12-month issue of
compliance be included in this motion. For the purpose of putting the motion forward, she
would like to include, "allow a 12-month period for current RV owners to bring their RV storage
into compliance with the code." The City Attorney offered to use the amortization period
wording that he has dealt with before, and would give the standard language to the Commission
for the ordinance.
Additional discussion occurred around the issue, again, of the three feet allowance on the
property line. Commissioner Brandman wanted the record to show that she was in favor of two
feet; the consensus of the other commissioners was for three feet.
Commissioner Smith asked to amend her original motion to be sure to include on page 2-06,
Item G, Number 4, that the recreational vehicle is not closer than 3 feet of all property lines in
the front yard area (taken by majority).
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Domer, Pruett, Smith
None
None
None
Motion to request the Council consider the following additional items related to proposed RV
ordinance:
(1) A provision to allow existing appropriate RV storage to remain (a grandfather clause).
(2) Implementation of an RV Storage permit process with details to be worked out.
(3) Issue of storage of RVs on public streets and right-of-ways, per staff report page 2-17,
final paragraph.
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Brandman.
Prior to approval of this motion, further discussion followed regarding the issue of
grandfathering and the timeline associated with it. Commissioner Bonina offered that we
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Planning Commission
November 3, 2003
shouldn't tie the grandfathering issue to a timeline, but allow the City Council, rather, to deal
with the issue in the way they see fit.
Commissioner Smith restated/reiterated her second motion to read:
1) That the City consider a provision to allow existing appropriate RV storage to remain
("grandfather"). Consider both pre- and post- 1995.
(2) Consider implementation of an RV storage permit process with staff assistance.
(3) Council address the issue of storage ofRVs on public streets and right-of-ways, per staff
report page 2-17, final paragraph.
IN RE: Second Motion to City Council
MOTION:
Moved by Commissioner Smith, seconded by Commissioner Brandman.
Commissioner Bonina offered that at some point in time the City should consider a requirement
for RV parking areas for all future developments.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
INRE:
INRE:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Domer, Smith
Chairman Pruett
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
NEW HEARINGS: None
ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION:
Moved by Commissioner Bonina and seconded by Commissioner Brandman to adjourn to the
next regular Planning Commission meeting on Monday, November 17,2003 at 6:30 p.m.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bonina, Brandman, Domer, Pruett, Smith
None
None
None MOTION CARRIED
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