2005 - December 5
Planning Commission Minutes
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December 5, 2005
Minutes
Planning Commission
City of Orange
PRESENT:
ABSENT:
PRESENT:
INRE:
INRE:
INRE:
December 5, 2005
Monday - 7:00 p.m.
Bilodeau, Enderby, Imboden, Pruett, and Bonina
None
Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager
Alice Angus, Community Development Director
Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner
Anne E. Fox, Contract Staff Planner
Gary Sheatz, Assistant City Attorney
Ted Reynolds, Assistant City Attorney
Cyndi Chadwick, Recording Secretary
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: None.
ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN: None.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
(1) THERE WILL NOT BE ANY MINUTES AVAILABLE FOR REVIEW AT
THIS MEETING.
INRE:
CONTINUED HEARINGS:
(2) MODIFICATIONS TO PREVIOUSLY APPROVED CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT NO. 2461-03 AND MAJOR SITE PLAN REVIEW NO. 300-03 -
ORANGE CITY MILLS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP, A DELAWARE LIMITED
PARTNERSHIP.
Chair Bonina reminded the Commissioners this item was Continued from the last
meeting. He mentioned additional information was asked for which was the basis for the
Continuance. He said they would hear this Item in conjunction with Item Number Four
since they were closely related, and would hear them simultaneously. He stated the first
item would be Item Three on the Agenda.
INRE:
NEW HEARINGS:
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
(3) CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT NO. 2533-05, AND DESIGN REVIEW
COMMITTEE NO. 4001-05 - GRACE CHURCH OF ORANGE.
Ms. Anne Fox, Contract Staff Planner, explained the project request was for a minor
addition in square footage to the church property located in the City's southerly limits.
She provided a full reading ofthe Staff Report to the Planning Commission. She
mentioned the Design Review Committee had reviewed the project, and recommended
approval of the proposal. She also stated that Staff supports this project and included
Standard Conditions for the project.
Chair Bonina asked if there was a timeline to be looked at in regard to the relocation of
the modular buildings.
Ms. Fox replied the applicant's response was that once the west side was built, there
would be no need for the modular buildings, but was unsure of the timeframe when this
would happen, but the applicant could answer this.
Chair Bonina asked if there would be parking for the church use along Breezy Way.
Ms. Fox stated there was no specific parking for the church, and if it did occur, it was not
through the permission of the City.
Chair Bonina asked ifthere were complaints relative to people parking on Breezy Way.
Ms. Fox replied there hadn't been any complaints. The two inquiries the City received
were general questions regarding the project.
Chair Bonina opened the Public Hearing.
Mr. Darrin Schoolmeester. applicant. He provided general background on Grace Church.
He pointed out that the application was a small part of a phase development of the Master
Plan. He stated the plan was sympathetic to the adjacent neighbors as well as the edges
on the site. He explained the reason the modulars were placed along the southwest corner
was due to the anticipated need for additional classroom space until the final phase of the
Master Plan was complete. He did not know when the Master Plan would be complete.
He said they would place the modulars as far out of public view as possible. He, then
addressed the parking issue, and stated they did not anticipate a need for off-site parking.
He said they actually exceeded the recommendations by the Zoning Code on-site. In fact,
he stated, they were sensitive to their neighbors in regard to parking, and they had
requested the congregation exit from Lowry onto Fairhaven in consideration of the traffic
circulation.
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December 5, 2005
Chair Bonina asked the applicant if drop-offs were allowed on Breezy Way.
Mr. Schoolmeester replied there was an original Master Plan approval that allowed
access from Breezy Way, but they had never used it. He said there was a gate that did
not allow access, and everyone gained access at Lowry.
Chair Bonina asked Staff if the access from Lowry onto Fairhaven created any
anticipated issues with the additional intensity of a left-hand turn that might be
challenged.
Mr. Roger Hohnbaum, Assistant City Engineer, replied that Staff had looked at the site,
and it should not be a problem.
Chair Bonina closed the Public Hearing.
Mr. Pruett asked Staff if there were any Elevations of the temporary buildings. He
mentioned the vegetation planted around the building. He was assuming there were no
improvements being made to the buildings.
Ms. Fox responded this was correct.
Mr. Pruett commented when the Commission had taken action on this some time ago, it
was subject to review after five years. He said now it is eight years later, and as he
recalls there was something in the Code that addressed what was temporary and what was
permanent; i.e.; something that defined temporary structures and the length of time they
could be in place. He cited a previous church where there was some concern, but could
not recall exactly what it was. He asked for some clarification on this.
Ms. Roseberry read from the Zoning Ordinance under the Temporary Use Permits. It
spoke of modular buildings for classrooms, etc., and did not speciry a time period for
Temporary Use Permits. She further stated that under the Conditions of Approval, it said
the Reviewing Authority (which, she said was the Planning Commission), may prescribe
a time limit within the action for the Temporary Use Permit shall be started, completed or
both. She pointed out that the Ordinance said "may prescribe" so there was no section in
the Code that stated "you shall prescribe" or "the time frame shall not exceed a certain
amount," and she did not see anything that had a certain time frame for a modular
building to be removed.
Chair Bonina stated it sounded like the Commission could provide some type of time
limit as a review on the temporary structure, and she agreed.
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December 5, 2005
Commissioner Pruett mentioned this what was done the last time. There was a five year
review, and it being eight years later, there was no review. He believed the issue was
how to be sure to review and/or follow through.
Chair Bonina asked Mr. Pruett ifrecalled what the intent of the review was.
Commissioner Pruett replied that he thought the issue was the progress being made,
because it was a temporary structure. Although he was sympathetic to the problems that
many churches have in this regard, he did not think this should not be subject for review,
i.e.; is it being used for the same purpose, have the plans changed, etc.
Ms. Roseberry made a correction to what she had previously read. She pointed out at the
end of the section, it stated permits for non-recurring temporary use shall not exceed a
one year time period, and can re-apply, but cannot be used for longer than two years. She
said, at this point, this was a Conditional Use Permit, so there was more leeway in how
the Commission could deal with it.
Commissioner Pruett again mentioned the elevation ofthe temporary structures, and what
they looked like, and how they would be finished.
Chair Bonina, stated he did not think they would change.
Ms. Fox commented this was correct, but they would be relocated. The Condition
suggested by the Design Review Committee was the addition of landscape treatment to
screen them from view, and minimize their impact as much as possible.
Mr. Schoolmeester added the topography associated with Fairhaven could not be seen on
the Plan for the modular units. He explained the modulars could only be seen as one
comes into the parking lot. He also stated there was an Evergreen tree that sits in front,
and would shield the modulars. He said the buildings were painted to match the existing
structures and tended to blend in with the existing structures.
Chair Bonina moved to recommend adoption of Resolution No. PC 56-05 approving
Conditional Use Permit No. 2533-05, and approve Design Review Committee No. 4001-
05. This project is categorically exempt from CEQA.
Co-chair Enderby seconded the motion.
YES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bilodeau, Enderby, Bonina, and Imboden
Pruett
None
None
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December 5, 2005
MOTION CARRIED
INRE:
CONTINUED HEARINGS:
(2) MODIFICATIONS TO PREVIOUSLY APPROVED CONDITIONAL USE
PERMIT NO. 2461-03 AND MAJOR SITE PLAN REVIEW NO. 300-03-
ORANGE CITY MILLS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP, A DELAWARE LIMITED
PARTNERSHIP.
AND
INRE:
NEW HEARINGS:
(4) AMENDED AND RESTATED DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY AND
BETWEEN THE CITY OF ORANGE AND ORANGE CITY MILLS LIMITED
PARTNERSHIP FOR THE LONG TERM DEVELOPMENT PLANS FOR THE
BLOCK AT ORANGE - ORANGE CITY MILLS LIMITED PARTNERSHIP.
Mr. Chris Carnes, Senior Planner, provided a full reading of the Staff Reports to the
Planning Commission for these Items. He mentioned the Modifications to the
Conditional Use Permit (C.u.P) No. 2461-05 and the Major Site Plan Review 300-03
from the November 21st meeting were continued to allow questions regarding parking
and Affordable Housing to be answered and the Planning Commission could hear the
modifications in conjunction with the applicant's request to amend the Development
Agreement. Additionally, he stated as part of the Review on these modifications to the
Development Agreement, an Addendum to the final Enviromnental Impact Report was
prepared that analyzed the impact to the changes in the original approval and documents
in comparison to the original Enviromnental Impact Report. He continued in response to
the questions regarding parking had to do with the number of spaces available as they did
the Phase Redevelopment. He stated that Staff recommended, prior to the issuance of
parking permits for the parking structure, the applicant submit to the Director of
Community Development, a parking plan on how the loss of the surface parking spaces
will be accommodated. Prior to the issuance of the building permits for the
condominiums, Staff has recommended (and is included as a Condition of approval), the
applicant submit and receive approval for a new shared parking plan for the entire Block
at Orange, including the condominiums. He said the applicant anticipated incorporating
within the shared parking plan existing office parking spaces that were not part of the
project area today. He continued in regard to Affordable Housing, the Development
Agreement has included a requirement that the developer pay $5,500.00 per dwelling unit
for the 403 condominiums. He further stated that prior to the issuance the first building
permit for any condominium, $3,500.00 per unit must be paid to the City to use for
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Affordable Housing. The remammg $2,000.00 would either be paid by the third
anniversary of the approval of the Development Agreement or be waived if the applicant
provides Affordable Housing elsewhere within the project site.
Mr. Carnes pointed out the proposed Amendment to the Development Agreement was to
reflect the changes to the original approvals that were defined as the proj ect in the
original Development Agreement. He ended by stating that Staff recommends approval
of the documents, and the Commission's action has to include the finding that the
Addendum finds the Environmental Impacts are the same as considered or in the Final
Enviromnental Impact Report.
Commissioner Bilodeau asked Staff to confirm there would be a net increase of
approximately 2,000 spaces.
Mr. Carnes replied that if the modifications to the original approval are approved and all
the entitlements in the previous documents are approved, and what is considered tonight,
it would be 999 additional parking spaces over the 5,200 spaces that exist today.
Commissioner Bilodeau then asked if the additional structures on the other side of the
building that were previously entitled did not go forward, what the net gain would be for
the new structure and condominiums.
Mr. Carnes explained there would be approximately 300 additional spaces, and
mentioned that the condominium parking would be provided separately. 300 more
spaces is what would be available for the commercial offices, and the residential would
have 960 additional spaces.
Commissioner Bilodeau then mentioned the in-lieu fee for Affordable Housing. He
asked Staff if the applicant meant the 15 percent plus the 60 units, which would normally
go into the project or did the applicant mean solely 15 percent.
Mr. Carnes replied that it meant 15 percent of the total of the new project with the total
number of units within that project.
Commissioner Bilodeau responded this did not seem to be in the City's favor because a
new project should already have 15 percent. He thought it should be 15 percent plus the
60 units. He explained that 60 was 15 percent of 403 condominiums. He mentioned he
would like to revisit this issue. He also wanted to verify the point of sale clause in the
Development Agreement in terms ofthe sales tax for the construction materials.
Mr. Carnes concurred.
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December 5, 2005
Commissioner Imboden commented there was a shared parking agreement mentioned in
the Staff Report that would have to be reviewed and approved. He wanted to know if that
would be handled by the Commission or Staff.
Mr. Carnes stated that it would be a c.u.P. to be reviewed by the Commission.
Commissioner Imboden started to ask about the parking situation. He wanted to know
the present number of parking spaces as well as the number of spaces after the project.
Chair Bonina wanted to defer this answer after the presentation by the applicant. He
wanted to dispense with the typical protocol and asked the applicant to make the
presentation in a dialogue fashion so that the Commission could ask questions as they
came up. He also mentioned that Staff had provided financial information, but the
Commission would not engage in those types of discussions. He explained the
Commission's purpose was to make land use decisions, and to the extent they needed to
talk about or make statements relative to the financials, that would be okay. He believed
this was something that City Council would do. However, he stated if there were any
recommendations relative to the project, then they could be voiced and forwarded on to
City Council.
Chair Bonina opened the Public Hearing.
Ms. Link. applicant. She stated there were two issues to be discussed tonight; security
and parking. She pointed out that two years ago, Staff recommended significant
coordination efforts be made with the Orange Police Department. She said that many of
the items were listed in the Conditional Use Permit while working with the Police
Department.
Ms. Karie Naienmik. General Manager. She wanted to address the points that were a part
of the agreement with the City. She mentioned that they had been asked to increase the
pay of the security officers to maintain a competitive pay rate with other shopping centers
in the area. She explained that in July 2002, there was an increase of $1.00 an hour more
with the entry level as well as the lieutenants. The company, Valor was their contract
service. She stated they were a third-party professional service that kept up with the
latest laws, but more importantly, they trained their officers accordingly. She continued
there was on-going training, role playing, drills, etc. that include the Orange Police
Department so there is a distinction between a security role versus a police officer. She
said there were curfew restrictions and sweeps for the County and City of Orange by
10:00 pm for anyone under the age of 18. She pointed out that every evening there was a
recorded message that is sent over the loudspeaker at 9:45 pm, and thereafter every five
minutes through 10:00 pm. She added on their "peak" nights, (Thursday through
Saturday during the summer, and Friday and Saturday nights during the school year as
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December 5, 2005
well as the holidays) there is an enforced sweep. She said that there could be non-
scheduled enforced sweeps, if necessary. She wanted it noted that The Block had a zero
tolerance for all truancy. She noted some of the targeted security preventions are the
camera-surveillance systems. In 2002, an evaluation was done, and by 2003, some of the
camera positions were changed based on the findings of that report. The cameras are the
pan-tilt zoom, and with the new construction, these will be upgraded. She mentioned
when the structure is built, additional security cameras will be added, and bring it up to
state-of-the art along with the rest of the systems. She added that the trees and shrubs are
kept cut back while maintaining a balance of foliage and kept well lit. She stated their
stats showed a decrease in occurrences of juvenile disturbances that included stolen car
incidents. She said there had only been two incidents of car thefts which was quite low in
a shopping center enviromnent. She mentioned this was due in part to the relationship
with the Orange Police Department. She pointed out that there have also been gang
sweeps in addition to sweeping the bars and nightclubs. She mentioned there would be
additional lighting in the area of where the parking structure would be built. She stated
that their lighting enviromnent was well maintained, and performed lighting studies and
surveys, and their security patrols marked the lights that require replacement. She
commented on the routine meetings between the Orange Police Department and the
Block security to create a safe enviromnent for the shoppers. She said they worked
closely with the police department to ensure they were not over-taxing the police
resources. She then commented on the net sales tax revenue, and how their sales had
gone up. She believed this was due in part to the great job the leasing office had done to
bring revenue producing tenants to the property. She also stated they had been asked to
look at Part One crime stats from 2001. She stated there was increase in Part One of 15
percent, and a decrease of 11 percent of overall stats. She added that for 2002 to 2003,
there was another increase of 6.9 percent in Part One, and an increase of 22 percent of
overall stats. She continued the difference for 2003 to 2004 was a reduction of 4.8
percent in Part One crimes, and a total reduction of 35 percent in overall crimes.
Currently, they are running at a 28 percent reduction in overall crimes to date.
Ms. Link stated that if the project were built today, and if they were to plan the parking
per City Code as a stand-alone shopping center with the same amount of square footage,
they would be required to have parking spaces for 4,325 cars. She said that based on
their Conditional Use Permit, (approved in 2000) and the fact that this is a mixed-use
project, there is additional parking due to the EOP office located in the Office Towers.
She explained that with this parking, there were currently 5,324 spaces, making 999 more
spaces per the C.U.P. that is in existence today in what would have been required if they
opened their doors today per Code. Additionally, she stated, the existing agreement in
place, is an easement for 460 cars located west of the theatre parking lot and adj acent to
the 500-505 office buildings. She explained these parking spaces were available to the
Block after 6:00 pm plus weekends and holidays.
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December 5, 2005
Chair Bonina asked if the easement for 460 spaces was through an agreement or an
easement and if this was part of the 5,324 spaces.
Ms. Link replied that this was an agreement with Equity Office that was in place when
the Addendum was done two years ago and was not a part of the 5,324, but was in
addition to these spaces. She stated they had met what was originally required by Code,
and because they share parking with the Office Tower, they have an additional 999
spaces, plus the 460 spaces.
Chair Bonina then asked how much of the 5,324 spaces was a part of the shared parking.
Ms. Link replied that 1,305 spaces were part of the shared parking.
Ms. Link presented the display charts, and showed the different colors that correlated to
the parking. She said the green in the upper shaded area was what existed today while
the yellow were the spaces in excess of Code, and the red was what was required of
Code, and these two together were the C.U.P. She explained that EOP owns 1,305
spaces. She stated their agreement, in principal is executed with having definitive
documents that will be completed before the year end. She pointed out that graphically
they show there is plenty of parking per Code, and there will be close to 1,900 spaces
above what is required. She said that once the construction of the deck has started, they
will lose about 400 spaces. She explained it was their intention to run a shuttle for the
700 cars that are in the back. She stated the shuttle would go back to the 700 car space
area, circulate the area, provide a drop-off to the theatre entry, go to the Dave and
Buster's entry, go outside of the property, and pick anyone up who was parked in the
deck area, come around, and drop off at all entry points of the proj ect. She further stated
the shuttle would nm during the construction of the deck and Toll Brothers. She
mentioned that the valet parking would be removed by December 31, 2005, and would
not bring the valet back until they go through the process with the Minor Site Plan
Review, and C.U.P.
Commissioner Imboden referred to the parking analysis in the Staff Report, and asked if
there was a parking shortage presently, if so how many, and based on the proposal
tonight, what would this number be.
Ms. Link responded the parking analysis Commissioner Imboden referred to did not
include the off-site parking that they had negotiated with EOP, (the green area on the
chart.) If they do not take the green area into consideration, they are short approximately
400-450 car spaces. She said based on the agreement, in principal, the 460 cars go up to
900 spaces, and would not be short today or if the proj ect gets 100 percent built out. The
800 cars they predict being short is based on a complete full build out; the additional
120,000 square feet of retail, the hotels, and condominiums. She stated even with all this
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December 5, 2005
in place, there would be excess parking due to the shared parking they are negotiating
with EOP. She stated the 460 car easement is in place today, and they would educate the
public that safe parking is available in that area.
Commissioner Imboden mentioned when he visited the site during the daytime, he
noticed to the west part of the property, there was a large portion of the parking lot that
was blocked off. He asked ifthis was part ofthe valet or part of the shared parking.
Ms. Link replied this was blocked off by Equity Office Building for their tenants. She
also stated this came down at 6:00 pm and with the new agreement, many of the gates
came up at 5 :00, which will work better for the early movies at the theatre.
Commissioner Bilodeau stated when he visited the site, he noticed the valet parking lots
were not full while patrons drove around the parking lots looking for a space. He
believed part of the parking deficit is the applicant's creation due to the valet plan. He
would like to see the valet parking ceased because there is no C.U.P to allow it, and the
City has requested this be ceased.
Ms. Link stated that there are various restaurants that have valet rights within their leases.
In order to correct this, they needed to get through the holidays where valet parking was
part of the package. She said in the past, the parking spaces were parked one car per
space, which is not traditional for an urban setting. She mentioned that Ms. Nejmenik
had been working with the valet company to shrink the parking area down to 500 cars.
She said they would still be able to accommodate 1,000 cars by stacking. She also
pointed out that these spaces were not a part of the spaces leased by the Redevelopment
Authority.
Ms. Najemnik stated the valet issue was if they did not reserve enough spaces in the early
part of the day, then there will not be enough spaces in the evening when this is their
peak hours. She commented that on "Black Friday", there was a 38 percent increase for
the valet parking. She stated one of the things they wanted to do for the consolidation
was to move the valet over so that it only impacted the docks and not the main entryways.
Ms. Link added that they would terminate the valet service on December 31, 2005.
Commissioner Bilodeau asked the applicant about the spaces being used for valet, and if
they overlapped with the spaces covered by the redevelopment agreement.
Ms. Link replied that Ms. Najemnik was working to correct this, but the modification to
the redevelopment agreement that the public will see has been taken into account.
Chair Bonina asked the applicant to go through the parking plan relative to the parking
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December 5, 2005
structures with signage, etc.
Ms. Link explained when the deck goes up, a speed ramp will be added, which she
believes will be key to function effectively. She pointed out the deck would be used all
day and evening, and the speed ramp would allow one to go from the on-grade parking
up to the fourth level, and there would be two lanes both directions. She also said there
would be computerized read-outs at each level showing how many parking spaces were
available at each floor. She said the ramp, and the computerized system would make the
deck user-friendly, and the lighting would make it safe. She explained that the signage is
being worked out with EOP, and some of the signs might be put out on a daily basis to
help with the traffic. Also, there would be signs to show the customers can be told there
would be no additional parking in certain areas as well as signs to show that customers
could park at the 500 to 505 buildings. She commented that they had received some bids
for the design build opportunity for the deck.
Chair Bonina asked about the timing of the housing.
Ms. Link turned the question over to one of the staff members, and he thought the first set
of condos would be finished before Fall of 2008.
Asst. City Attorney, Ted Reynolds asked the speaker to identiry himself.
Mr. Sal Provenza. Land Acquisition Manager. Toll Brothers. He stated he was looking to
purchase the property and the parking lot.
Ms. Link then spoke of their intent to start on a portion of the retail expansion. She
mentioned there was some interest from some additional restaurateurs and other retailers
to come into the project. She stated the project has had a positive change and that the
leasing office is located on-site is a huge asset. She pointed out that every space lost due
to the improvements made by OCT A and Cal Trans on the interchange will be included
in the deck so the shortage they have experienced because of this proj ect will be
remediated as soon as the deck is open. She mentioned there would be a signage package
to be presented with the parking deck design early next year.
Commissioner Imboden asked ifthe guest parking in the condo area was gated.
Ms. Link replied that they were open.
Commissioner Imboden then asked if there was anything that would restrict mall user
from using the guest parking.
Mr. Provenza replied that the idea is that this would be guest parking for the residences
only. He explained that on the Site Plan, there was a small motor court that goes through
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December 5, 2005
the larger portion of the site, and although there are no gates, there are monuments that
make you feel if you're a retail patron, you shouldn't be there. He said they were relying
on the guilt factor. He said that it was designed where a call box and a gate could be used
in the future along with a roundabout inside the property that could be used as a turn-
around for those who could not get in.
Commissioner Pruett commented that he assumed there would not be an easy access to
the retail center from these spaces.
Mr. Provenza stated this was correct.
Ms. Link added that the parking for retail would be underneath would be marked for
retail with easy access to the retail center.
Commissioner Imboden stated his concern of approximately 4,800 pedestrians walking
between the condos as well as 1,000 cars driving through the area and condo owners
coming home in such a small area. He wanted to know if the applicant could explain
how this might be mitigated.
Ms. Link replied that there was not enough traffic to require a signal in this area, but
there would be a stop sign. She said they were planning a significant sidewalk along with
a speed table rather than just crosswalks. She explained the traffic consultants had
advised them that speed tables actually slow a car better than a bump. They acknowledge
there was much more traffic there, and were working on that section with speed tables
and were trying to use other materials as cahning measures to slow down this traffic.
Commissioner Imboden stated his concern was not only for the pedestrian, but for the
people who would be living there, and he was concerned about mitigations due to the
heavy traffic flow.
Ms. Link stated that this would most likely be Thursday, Friday and Saturday. She said
this was a definite urban setting, and would have all the same issues that a busy urban
setting will have as far as pedestrians and conflicts with cars. She said from a specific
detail, they have not designed this yet, but would be doing so with Toll Brother when
they move forward.
Commissioner Imboden asked the applicant if they considered keeping the residential on
one side rather than stretching it over the access point.
Ms. Link answered that the benefit of having the condo units on both sides flanking the
street is a positive impact on the visual. She explained the people who will live there will
get to see other residential as opposed to the parking deck. She added the people who
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December 5, 2005
work in the 500 and 505 buildings have the vision of the exterior of the condominiums.
She mentioned that this was one of the solutions working with the E.O.P. since they had
concerns about the view corridor, and by moving the housing; they have enhanced the
view corridor.
Commissioner Bilodeau asked how many spaces the applicant would be losing after the
OCT A reconfiguration.
Ms. Link replied they would lose plus or minus 250 spaces.
Commissioner Bilodeau inquired if the footprint of the parking structure was at 300.
Ms. Link replied that there were 228.
Commissioner Bilodeau then asked how many would be lost for the housing project.
Ms. Link answered about 990 spaces.
Commissioner Bilodeau wanted to know how much parking would be lost on the east
side of the building where the two expansions would be.
Ms. Link stated that there was 120,000 square feet, which was approximately three acres,
and there would be a loss of about 120 to 135 per acre. She added that every space
they're losing would be replaced on the deck.
Commissioner Bilodeau commented that the two expansions on the east side would be
replaced in the structures adjacent to the two hotels.
Ms. Link replied that there would be one space for every hotel room plus the employee
parking, as well as the parking required for the additional retail. She said the deck would
be built first which is what Toll is doing before they allow them to take those spaces out
of service. She commented in the case of OCTA, it was her wish that the deck was built
first, and then the construction, but this did not happen. But, in all other cases here, the
decks will come first, and the replacement parking will be in place before any other
parking is taken out of service.
Commissioner Bilodeau asked if for the housing project there would be 887 spaces that
will be parked underneath.
Ms. Link replied this was correct, and there would also be another 300 plus cars for the
retail businesses so there will be over I, I 00 spaces.
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December 5, 2005
Commissioner Bilodeau asked what was the total number of spaces for the structure and
the spaces under the housing. He mentioned in the Staff Report it states 887 spaces.
Ms. Link stated for the purpose of residential, this was correct. She pointed out in the
Staff Report, it also addressed the fact that there are additional spaces being constructed
for retail.
Commissioner Bilodeau commented that this was 317 spaces. He said this would add up
to 2,928. When he adds up the loss of spaces, he comes up with over 1,900 surface
spaces will be lost due to the expansions.
Ms. Link mentioned Commissioner Bilodeau had added up the spaces under the deck.
She stated she would not lose all of these spaces; they would lose about 40 spaces.
Commissioner Bilodeau explained when you build a structure with 1,700 spaces on a 300
space surface parking area, the net gain will be 1,400.
Ms. Link replied no, their net gain would be 1,728. She said that she had already taken
into account all the losses.
Commissioner Bilodeau asked if the parking structure had 1,722 net spaces or was this
the total spaces.
Ms. Link answered these were the spaces between the colunms surrounding the deck.
Commissioner Bilodeau stated that this was the total, but the net increase is only actually
1,422 because there's 300 already on the ground.
Ms. Link replied yes, but the only spaces they will lose are 900 spaces under Toll and
will gain 300 of those back once Toll builds which doesn't matter because they're
replacing 100 percent of the 900 plus cars in the deck as well as all the spaces that OCT A
took because she knows they are needed.
Commissioner Bilodeau commented if the two hotels and their accompanying parking
structures were not built, and they go forward with the expansion on the east side, they
build the condominiums, and build the parking structure adjacent, it seems to have a net
gain of about 1,000 spaces. But, he said when you look at the parking demand for the
condominiums per the Code, which is about 887, and if they look at the parking demand
for the two expansions, which is five per 1,000, it appears as though they're going
negative.
Ms. Link responded that the bulk of the parking for the retail expansion will be on a new
deck so these spaces will not be taken out of service unless they'll be replaced one car per
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
one car plus the additional demand would be replaced on the deck.
Commissioner Bilodeau asked where the deck would be located.
Ms. Link replied it would be next to one ofthe hotels.
Commissioner Bilodeau asked if it was a condition if the applicant built the structure
prior to the expansions.
Ms. Link answered that the bulk of the retail expansion would require a deck. She
explained the loss of 300 spaces (due to OCTA) would be replaced. She continued there
were 900 spaces underneath which means there would be about 1,200 new car spaces in
the deck to maintain where they're at today. She added the size of the deck (of about
1,728) takes into account this loss. Once the deck is built, they will be even to where they
are today. Then, there will be the Toll Bros. construction which will bring an additional
317 car spaces. She said this would be 317 more cars on the mall property than are there
today available for retail shopping. She stated there would be 900 car easements adjacent
to the property, which would make it a 1,200 car net. She further stated that when the
documents are signed with EOP, they would be at a 900 car net, which will happen this
year. She believed they can demonstrate the 300 car space they're building would allow
them to do a small piece of the retail expansion prior to building another big deck, but
this was subject to further review by Staff and the Planning Commission. She was
certain once the deck was built, they would have every parking space they had before
OCTA started as well as when Toll finishes building their center there will be 300 more.
Chair Bonina asked Ms. Angus if what they are approving today did not provide for an
approval for the commercial of 1,200 cars or any portion ofthis.
Ms. Angus replied that this was correct, and what was before the Commission was the
parking structure at the 1,700 plus spaces and a change in the Conditional Use Permit
from apartments to condominiums along with shared parking. She believed when they
were done with the parking structure, the parking under the surface level, and the
captured shared parking, there may be some excess that could support some of the
commercial that has not been before the Commission that will need to come back and
need to demonstrate they have the parking spaces prior to permits for the commercial
expansion towards the front of the center.
Chair Bonina stated they would be able to address the parking issue if there is one, and
Ms. Angus stated yes.
Commissioner Bilodeau assumed this part of the expanSIOn had been previously
approved.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Ms. Link stated the expansion is approved, but not the specific for this piece of it;
meaning in the CEQA analysis, then the Addendum approved it, and the Site Plan
included all the uses.
Chair Bonina asked about the Affordable Housing on the project.
Ms. Link stated it was their intention to do this project with the in-lieu fee, and if Mills
does another project within the Orange Project to do Affordable Housing within that unit.
Chair Bonina asked the applicant to define the Orange Project.
Ms. Link replied the Mills project was on the Site Plan shaded in the gray/green color
area. It was within this boundary that she was speaking. She said if they come back and
seek entitlements for additional housing, it will include Affordable Housing at the 15
percent rate.
Chair Bonina mentioned the statement made earlier by Commissioner Bilodeau regarding
Affordable Housing.
Ms. Link answered the intent was to apply the 15 percent to the new project and the in
lieu fee, which has almost doubled, will be used to pay for Affordable somewhere within
the project. She suspects the money will be spent, and did not think they would intend to
get any money back if they built additional Affordable Housing.
Chair Bonina asked Ms. Angus what the requirement was for a redevelopment area for
constructing housing in the Affordable percentage area.
Ms. Angus replied the Redevelopment Agency has an obligation for any housing that's
displaced to replace it, and new housing has a requirement for an inclusion, not
necessarily on the project site or the agency boundaries. But, if it's within the boundaries
of the Redevelopment Agency, it's 15 percent, and there's a breakdown of the 40 percent
of the 15% Affordable to the very low segment of the whole strata of Affordable
Housing. If the agency chooses not to replace the housing within the agency boundary,
then it's a two for one. She explained 15 percent equated to 60 units within the project
area. She mentioned that up until recently, the agency has gone through their Five-Year
Implementation Plan, and were ahead of the curve for Affordable Housing in different
projects, most in association with Orange Housing Development Corporation. She
continued they did not require with new proj ects to be incorporated on-site. She
mentioned some projects that came before the Commission recently had a negotiated in
lieu fee and this was the parameter the City operated under the first time that Mills came
before the Commission about a year ago.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Commissioner Bilodeau mentioned after going through the parking numbers, it appeared
there would be a net increase of parking spaces. He stated he had come up with about
600 extra spaces.
Mr. Provenza clarified that the 900 spaces were not a part of the numbers provided, and
Commissioner Bilodeau understood this.
Commissioner Bilodeau stated the way the Affordable Housing was written that $2,000
dollars of the in lieu fee would be refunded if on another project that's done on the parcel
if 15 percent is provided on that building. That building should be provide 15 percent
already, and was not sure where the net gain is or the intent behind this. It seemed it
should be 15 percent plus 60 so they're breaking even on the units. He asked for Staff to
provide some background.
Ms. Angus explained Redevelopment Law talks about the 15 percent obligation; that's an
obligation that incurs to the Redevelopment Agency, and they need to manage how this
housing is produced. They do not have an inclusionary Housing Ordinance, but there is
some policy language that talks about encouraging and looking at ways the agency or the
City can assist developers to include Affordable Housing within their project. The
benefit in terms of the language and the development agreement is it locks it in place for
the future development to provide 15 percent, and the agency is not taking a greater
obligation in the future. While such a project is not on the table, in discussions with
Mills, there is some interest in future housing on-site and what they've tried to
accomplish was to negotiate this up front and lock it into place. She continued this did
not make up or capture Affordable Housing for the current Toll Brothers project before
them, but the agency is continually looking and working out housing deals throughout the
City. She believed the applicant was comfortable with collecting the fees on this one and
getting the agreement on rights to a future proj ect on-site.
Chair Bonina asked if it was fair to say that whatever future project is out there, it's not
inclusionary, but would be a project with Affordable Housing.
Ms. Angus replied this was not correct, but whatever project comes in the future, as
opposed to the City having to adopt an Inclusionary Ordinance, they've already locked
this in through the Development Agreement, and it would include affordability of 15
percent of all the units as affordable. She said that they were still looking at a high
quality project, and were not looking for a project that was 100 percent affordable, but
instead as they can calculate this in, could come up with a well-designed high quality
project that includes 15 percent affordable, and the breakdown as to how much of this 15
percent is very low, then low to moderate, there would still be 85 percent of it at market
value.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Chair Bonina commented he was a little confused because he thought the argument was
not having 15 percent of the 400 units was they did not want to go with inclusionary
requirements or housing whereas now they're saying the 15 percent they will be getting
in the future will be inclusionary.
Ms. Angus stated to help him better understand the terminology that she is using, and the
context within which she is using it, the City does not have an Inclusionary Ordinance so
by right, they cannot require 15 percent of their proj ect as inclusionary, but can negotiate
that. She explained what had previously been negotiated as the applicant talked about the
site and how they tried to get another stabilizing influence with the residential, was a
partnership between the City and the Mills Corporation to create more synergy. She
stated the decision was what was before the Commission in terms of the residential,
future expansion of retail, and future hotels. She said when they came up with this
negotiation, and what had been approved by City Council previously, was not to require
Affordable Housing on-site at this location, but instead for the fee to be paid, which at
that time was $2,850.00. She commented that the economics, as such, to build the 400
and some condominium units, they will have to build a 1,700 car structure as well as the
parking associated with the condominiums, it is difficult for them to absorb the cost
difference for this individual project. She continued as they go forward, there have been
discussions the applicant may be interested in housing elsewhere on the project site, they
wanted to lock in their intention and their agreement is to provide with the next project,
15 percent affordable.
Chair Bonina asked if with the 400 market rate units, wouldn't it generate a requirement,
at some point in this project area, for 60 affordable units somewhere within this
redevelopment defined area known as the Block.
Ms. Angus replied that not within this defined area. She stated that Redevelopment Law
talks about providing Affordable Housing. She explained that the project area was much
larger than The Block and the Redevelopment Agency actually combined all three
redevelopment project areas. She stated most of the commercial and industrial areas did
not include a lot of land previously designated for residential, but as they move ahead
with their General Plan, and look at mixed-use areas, they'll capture areas that are mixed
use or are a residential nature so when she speaks of redevelopment project area, she's
not speaking of The Block or The City area, but a much larger portion of the City. She
commented that within the larger redevelopment area, there is an obligation with this
project to provide 60 units of affordable and a breakdown of those or if it's not provided
within a project area and if instead the agency looks at an area outside of the area that's
residentially designated, as they have done in the past with proj ects, they can provide
them there.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Ms. Link stated when they started the project; it was because the City called upon them.
She thought this was the first step to making The Block an even better place, and
mentioned that the theatres were ranked Number Two in the country. She hoped the
project would get better and better.
Chair Bonina asked the applicant if there was anything she wanted to state on the
Development Agreement that the Commission had not previously heard.
Ms. Link stated that Mrs. Najenmik has previously commented on the Security issues,
which was a big part of that agreement.
Ms. Leslie Dixon. 20 Citv Blvd West. Orange. CA.. Manager of Bath and Body Works.
She spoke in favor of the project. She stated she had been at this location for the past
year and a half. She pointed out she had seen significant improvement and traffic grow
within the Block. She stated the store's sales and transactions had grown significantly
over the past year due to the development of the stores within the center. She believes
this proj ect is another way for the sales of her store as well as other stores will
dramatically increase over the next few years. She spoke of the parking structure, and
how it will help the employees as well as draw more traffic to the center. She mentioned
the possibility of having employee parking at the 500 Building area and how this would
benefit them since currently the employees use many spaces near the mall because there
is no where else to park. She thought the condominiums would bring more people to the
mall, as those residents would become a targeted audience. She stated that overall; the
project was very exciting, and a great way to help sales in the center and the city.
Mr. Mitch Reichel. 180 Newport Center Drive. Equitv Office Development Consultant.
He stated that Equity Office was here tonight to support the Mills Expansion Project at
The Block. He explained this was a result of Equity Office and Mills working out an
agreement, in principal, that covered several issues discussed tonight, but mainly was
about parking. He added they were very pleased with the progress made on the
residential component of the project, converting it from apartments to condominiums and
the overall design was much more appealing not just to Equity Office but to their
customers, tenants, and the two office buildings across the street. He said he looked
forward to coming before the Planning Commission early next year with Amendments to
some of the Entitlements that were previously approved for the office developments in
the area that adjoin The Block.
Mr. Cesar Covarrubias. address on file. Kennedy Commission. He stated his
organization was an advocate for Affordable Housing. He thanked the Commission and
Staff for endeavoring to figure out a calculation that would make in lieu fees in
Affordable Housing more viable in this city. He thought good steps were being taken to
address the issue and recognize a new formula needed to be calculated. He said whether
Page 19
Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
this is the correct formula or not, he thought this could be worked on. One of his
concerns were when this development came to the Commission, and the Council as an
apartment development, there was an in lieu fee consideration being proposed which was
probably the same one proposed as the other developments in the uptown Orange area;
the old Cinedome site, and the Archstone Development. He said when those projects
came back, a different calculation was done, but there was also a willingness of the
developer to include some of the harder to obtain Affordable Housing components such
as, the moderate level as units that would be developed within the development. He
thought the formula was to use the moderate units on-site as part of the development, and
keep the in lieu fees to mitigate some of the needs for some of the lower income levels
that they would not address on those projects. He thought in the case before the
Commission, it appeared as though none of the units would be considered, but they
would use the formula for $4,000.00 if in the future they decide to put something in for
affordable, and $6,000 if they don't put a component in later on. His said this figure did
not go far to develop units either on-site or elsewhere in the final calculations. He urged
the City to look at different examples such as Irvine. He said they use a true in lieu fee
calculation where there is a systematic approach. He stated they had just reviewed it and
had gone from $6,000 to $12,000 per unit. He said the predominant problem in Orange
County in not creating Affordable Housing is not having the sites or land, and if they
don't encourage developers to partner to reach the numbers, they will have a harder time
creating those opportunities because there is no land. As Ms. Angus stated, the City is
taking some steps in meeting some of the redevelopment numbers and they are meeting
those needs, but not by producing new units, but by acquisition rehab. He said that 1,200
new units in the uptown area, and 500 new units at The Block were approved with the
intent to lessen the burden on the community in the housing market for a rental, now this
has been taken away by having home ownership, and the other issue is not being
addressed.
Chair Bonina closed the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Bilodeau stated in looking at the Development Agreement with the $2,000
per unit that could be rescinded, it referred to the Firestone parcel. He asked where this
was located.
Ms. Link replied this used to be J.C. Penney at the Firestone site in the far southeast
corner where currently there is a gas station planned.
Commissioner Bilodeau thought the project was well thought out. He commented that
Toll Brothers is a premier builder. He thanked the Commission for indulging him in
continuing this item so that additional information was provided. He felt that going
through the parking numbers repeatedly, he believed there would a small net gain. He
looked forward to the valet parking be resolved soon. He recalled there were other
Page 20
Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
uptown Orange projects where the apartments were converted to condominiums. He said
they required the applicant include 10 percent B.R.E. for Affordable Housing plus an in
lieu fee component. He just wanted to consider equity and fairness to other applicants
that have come before the Commission. He added this was in a redevelopment zone and
were required to provide 60 units. He calculated the $5,500 times 403 units equated to
$2.2 million, and he did not believe 60 units could be built for $2.2 million. He was
concerned the Orange taxpayers would be left on the hook for the rest of the funding, and
the obligation that the City would have to fulfill.
Chair Bonina stated the concept of putting new housing with commercial use is
something that will be seen more frequently. He stated the General Plan is going in that
direction. He thought this was a good match. He believes the parking and traffic has
been reviewed in great detail, and was not simple to understand. He thought it provided a
net gain, albeit not as much as they would like. He commented the Affordable Housing
issue is something that concerns him, and is not the ideal structure. He said if they are
serious about creating Affordable Housing, then they should allow for the Affordable
Housing at the same time as the development moves forward. He added that City
Council is the one that provides these guidelines, and believes it's important that the
information in the proposal moving forward, as he understands it, directed by City
Council. He pointed out the Commission would continue to voice their opinions on the
Affordable Housing structure in the City, but ultimately it is the City Council that
provides guidance in this regard. He stated again he was not totally comfortable with it,
but would move forward as it is outlined in the Development Agreement as well as the
Conditional Use Permit.
Commissioner Pruett believed this is a good project, and stated this in the last meeting.
He was concerned when a percentage is laid out to meet a quota in terms of housing.
He's not sure the housing needs are satisfied when it goes in this direction. He stated
Staff indicated the housing goals are being achieved and actually exceeding them. He
added he did not see a problem with the policy that City Council put forward. He
believes this policy is working well, and gives some flexibility to the Housing
Department when they have the dollars to make sound fiscal decisions in providing new
housing. He said in terms of other developments that converted to condominiums, the
City was able to create some affordable units within those facilities. He said they were
under construction and then were told they wanted to change the plans. He stated this put
the developer in a different bargaining position in what you're able to extract from an
individual who is coming forward with a proposal. He believed the City was able to
work with that situation and the different situations can't be used as a model as what
should be done in terms of Affordable. He thinks this would be a mistake. He thinks the
key is the City's policy can always be improved in providing Affordable Housing. He
ended by stating that the City and Staff should be commended for the work that they do,
and they this is overlooked sometimes.
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Chair Bonina moved to Adopt Resolution No. PC 51-05 recommending to the City
Council approval of the modification to Conditional Use Permit 2461-03 and Adopt
Resolution No. 52-05 recommending to the City Council approval of the modification to
Major Site Plan Review No. 300-03 understanding that the previously certified Final
Enviromnental Impact Report No. 1721-03 reviewed the enviromnental impacts of
approved project. An Addendum to Final Enviromnental Impact Report No. 1721-03 has
been prepared to evaluate the enviromnental impacts of the modified project. He again
stated this was a recommendation of approval of the Conditional Use Permit.
Commissioner Pruett seconded the motion.
YES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bilodeau, Enderby, Bonina, Pruett
Imboden
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
Chair Bonina moved to Adopt Resolution No. PC 52-05 recommending to the City
Council approval of the modification to Major Site Plan Review No. 300-03 previously
certified Final Enviromnental Impact Report No. 1721-03 reviewed the enviromnental
impacts of approved project. An Addendum to Final Enviromnental Impact Report No.
1721-03 has been prepared to evaluate the enviromnental impacts of the modified project.
He again stated this was a recommendation to approve the modifications to the Major
Site Plan.
Commissioner Pruett seconded the motion.
YES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bilodeau, Enderby, Bonina, Pruett
Commissioner Imboden
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
Chair Bonina moved to Adopt Resolution No. PC 58-05 recommending approval to the
City Council of the Amended and Restated Development Agreement by and between The
City of Orange and Orange City Mills Limited Partnership understanding the Addendum
to Final Enviromnental Impact Report No. 1721-03 reviewed the enviromnenta1 impacts
of the approved project. An Addendum to the FElR has been prepared to evaluate the
enviromnental impacts of the proposed modifications to the project.
Page 22
Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Commissioner Pruett seconded the motion.
Commissioner Bilodeau commented that he would support the Development Agreement
as he had previously stated his concerns regarding Affordable Housing. He agreed this
was ultimately a City Council decision on what direction that want to take.
YES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bilodeau, Enderby, Bonina, Pruett and Imboden
None
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
(5) FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BY AND
BETWEEN THE CITY OF ORANGE AND THE CITY LIMITED
PARTNERSHIP- "EQUITY OFFICE PROPERTIES"
Mr. Christopher Carnes, Senior Planner, provided a full reading of the Staff Report to the
Commission.
Chair Bonina asked the definition of "reach an agreement".
Mr. Ted Reynolds, Assistant City Attorney, replied that there is a set ofCC&Rs that
govern between the two parties. He explained when they completed the Development
Agreement about a year ago, it was determined this set ofCC&Rs needed to be amended
which meant recordation of a document. He further stated they need certification from
The Mills stating they were satisfied, and could go forward with their expansion plans.
He said on October 28th, they had an agreement, in principal, but the City has not seen
this document yet. He said it was a thick document with many things to work out yet,
and they asked the City to grant them an additional three months to get the document
completed.
Chair Bonina opened the Public Hearing.
Mr. Mitch Reichel. Development Consultant. Equitv Office Properties. He concurred
with the Staff Report. He added that they were working to complete the CC&Rs along
with other documents and believe they will accomplish before the end of January.
Ms. Link. address on file. She thanked the City for the original Development Agreement
that was negotiated with EOP.
Page 23
Planning Commission Minutes
December 5, 2005
Chair Bonina closed the Public Hearing.
Chair Bonina stated the enviromnental impacts of the approved office buildings were
analyzed by Final Enviromnental Impact Report (FElR) 1612-01 and an Addendum to
the FElR was prepared and approved for the DA. Because the amendment does not
involve any change in land uses or entitlements, no further enviromnental analysis is
required. Thus, he moved to Adopt Resolution No. 57-05 recommending approval to the
City Council ofthe First Amendment to the Development Agreement by and between
The City of Orange and EOP.
Commissioner Bilodeau seconded the motion.
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bilodeau, Enderby, Bonina, Pruett, and Imboden
None
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
Chair Bonina moved to adjourn this meeting to the next meeting on Monday, January 16,
2006.
Commissioner Bilodeau seconded the motion.
YES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
ABSENT:
Commissioners Bilodeau, Bonina, Enderby, Imboden and Pruett
None
None
None
MOTION CARRIED
Page 24