2018-08-01 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES=FINAL
August 1, 2018
Committee Members Present: Tim McCormack- Chair
Anne McDermott—Vice Chair
Mary Anne Skorpanich
Carol Fox
Robert Imboden
Staff in Attendance: Bill Crouch, Community Development Director
' Anna Pehoushek, Assistant Community Development Director
Marissa Moshier, Historic Preservation Planner
Kelly Ribuffo, Associate Planner
• Simonne Fannin, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session—5:00
1. Chair McCormack opened the Administrative Session at 5:01 p.m. and inquired about the
PolicyfProcedural Information.
• Marissa Moshier, Historic Preservation Planner stated there were no changes to the
agenda.
• She explained the procedure for Eichler Design Standards study session with
Members of the Design Review Committee, members of the public and staff. This ;
will be a study session only and not require a motion or vote.
Committee Members provided edits to the July 18, 2018 minutes. ,
Committee Memlier McDermott made a motion to close the Administrative Session of the
Design Review Committee meeting.
SECOND: Skorpanich
AYES: McCormack, Imboden, Skorpanich, McDermott, and Fox
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:12 p.m. �
City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
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Regular Session—5:30 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Committee Members McCormack, Imboden, Skorpanich, McDermott and Fox were present.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for Members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not
listed on the Agenda.
There were no speakers.
CONSENT ITEMS:
(1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: July 18, 2018.
Committee Member McDermott made a motion to approve the minutes from the Design Review
Committee meeting of July 18, 2018 as emended in the Administrative Session.
SECOND: Fox
AYES: McCormack, Fox, Skorpanich and McDermott
NOES: None
ABSENT : None
ABSTAIN: Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
Page 3 of 11
AGENDA ITEMS:
New Agenda Items:
(2) DRC No. 4906-17— 10 Plaza Square
• A request to modify a previously approved project, based�on conditions uncovered during
construction. The Design Review Committee approved the project to remodel a non-
contributing building in the Plaza Historic District on June 7, 2017.
• 10 Plaza Square, Plaza Historic District
• Staff Contact: Marissa Moshier, (714) 744-7243, mmoshiern,cit of��;e.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Marissa Moshier, Historic Preservation Planner provided an explanation of the project consistent
with the staff report.
Chair McCormack invited the applicant to present.
Victor Corona provided a photograph of the concrete shear wall requiring the changes to the
storefront design.
Chair McCormack opened the meeting for public comment.
Jeff Frankel, Old Towne Preservation Association stated it looks like there are a lot of doors on
the elevation and asked if the Gas Company can explore more options for location of the meters.
Chair McCormack closed the public comment portion of the meeting.
Committee comments and questions:
• Committee Members would like more information on the gas closet that is on the front
fa�ade. Mr. Corona explained that due to the increased demand of restaurant uses, the
gas lines need to be increased. The Gas Company stated there is no room to add another
vault in the public right of way; therefore it will have to be recessed on the Plaza side of
the building with proper ventilation. Ms. Moshier stated this situation is more difficult
because the building is land locked and has no access to any alleys.
• Committee Members are concerned about placing utility doors on the front of a facade
and asked if they considered the Committee's prior recommendation on the electrical
room. Mr. Corona responded that they tried to provide an access door to the side of the
recessed storefront, but it was not sufficient because of the amount of ventilation
required.
• Committee Members discussed the pros and cons of louvered doors and expressed that
louvered doors would be preferred over the doors proposed.
• Committee Members asked if the applicant considered placing the meters in the patio.
Mr. Corona stated they did, however,it has to be accessible to the Gas Company.
• One of the Committee Members stated it is not up to the Committee to override the
decision of the Gas Company due to safety requirements. Mr. Corona stated the Gas
Company requires double doors in order to provide enough room for access.
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` Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
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• Some Committee Members would like to see the doors blend in and disappear; it should
not look like entry door.
• . Some Committee Members suggested that the doors could be replaced with a decorative
grille.
• Committee Members asked if the Gas Company will require any signage on the doors.
Mr. Corona responded that he did not believe signage was required; however, he did not
specifically ask the question of the Gas Company.
• Committee Members asked if the vent could be positioned higher in the wall and Mr.
Corona stated yes.
Mr. Corona stated he can reduce the height of the door, eliminate the trim, and place the louvered
vent higher on the wall. However, he feels the doors currently create a rhythm with the
storefronts and other doors. He feels placing louvers on the wall seems lost.
• The Committee expressed a variety of opinions about whether the doors were appropriate
for the farade and whether the cabinet should be decorative or more utilitarian. Some
Committee Members were pleased with the rhythm of doors and windows on the
elevation. Other Committee Members believed the cabinet should be simplified or
relocated.
• The Committee Members were satisfied with the paint colors and agreed the utility doors
should be painted the darker color.
Chair McCormack asked the applicant if he wanted to continue the item in order to explore more
cabinet options.
Mr. Corona responded that he feels the storefront is consistent and works well even though the
doors are visible; he would like a vote this evening.
The Committee Members shared concern over utility doors on the fa�ade and agreed that they
cannot approve the doors as proposed; they agreed the remainder of the project is acceptable and
they would be willing to approve the project with the condition that optional treatments for the
utility cabinet doors will be brought back to the Committee for final approval prior to issuance of
a building permit.
Committee Member Fox made a motion to approve DRC No. 4906— 17 - 10 Plaza Square based
on the conditions and findings in the staff report, with the additional condition:
• The utility cabinet design shall return to the Design Review Committee for final
determination prior to issuance of a building permit for the revised design.
SECOND: Skorpanich
AYES: Skorpanich, McCormack,Fox, Imboden and McDermott
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED
, City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
Page 5 of 11
(3) DRC No. 4900-17 Chapman University Villa Park Orchards Association Packing House and
West Residential Village—Sunkist Sign Restoration
• A proposal for reconstruction of historic era"Sunkist"painted signage on the Villa Park
Orchards Association Packing House.
• 350 N. Cypress Street, Old Towne Historic District
• Staff Contact: Kelly Ribuffo, (714) 744-7223, kribuffo(cr�,citvoforan�g
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Kelly Ribuffo, Associate Planner provided an explanation of the Sunkist sign design consistent
with the staff report.
Chair McCormack invited the applicant to present. The applicant, Tim Rizuka did not present,
but stated he was available for questions.
Committee Member Imboden asked if the sample of the crate label provided in the staff report is
being used as an example for the type of font that will be used or if the sign will look like that.
Mr. Merrin stated it is only there as a sample for the color and font that they intend to use.
Chair McCormack opened the public comment portion of the meeting.
Jeff Frankel, Old Towne Preservation Association spoke in support; however, he would like
more information on the lighting.
Chair McCormack closed public comment.
Committee comments and questions:
• A Committee Member asked how the size of the sign was determined. Mr. Merrin
explained they tried to replicate the sign from historic photos as well as past
recommendations from the Design Review Committee. He also indicated that the logo
needs to fit within in the parapet zone.
• The Committee Members discussed various logos of the 1930s and 1940s time period.
Kris Olsen, Chapman University, added they are not trying to re-create the graphic as
much as they are trying to create an homage to the building's history.
• The Committee Members inquired about the sign's lighting. Mr. Rizuka explained the
lighting will have an even, soft low glow with no breaks and showed the Committee a
sample fixture.
Committee Member Skorpanich made a motion to approve DRC No. 4900 — 17 - Chapman
University Villa Park Orchards Association Packing House and West Residential Village —
Sunkist Sign Restoration with the conditions and the findings in the staff report.
SECOND: McDermott
AYES: Skorpanich, McCormack,Fox, Imboden and McDermott
NOES: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
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Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
Page 6 of 11
RECESS: 6:32 - 6:41
Item No. 4 — Study Session on Draft Orange Eichler Design Standards will not be heard
prior to 6:30 p.m.
(4) Study Session on Draft Orange Eichler Design Standards
�
• A study session to review the Draft Orange Eichler Design Standards (OEDS). The OEDS
have been developed to accompany designation of the three Orange Eichler tracts as local
historic districts.
• Orange Eichler Tracts—Fairhaven, Fairhills, and Fairmeadow
• Staff Contact: Marissa Moshier, (714) 744-7243,mmoshier(c�cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Study Session—no action required
Committee Member Fox recused herself from this item due to the fact that she lives in an Eichler
home. Per the City Attorney, she is able to provide comments as a member of the public and a
homeowner.
Committee Member Imboden recused himself, because he is an Eichler property owner and
serves as member of the consultant's team that prepared the standards, and left the room.
Marissa Moshier, Historic Preservation Planner introduced the Page & Turnbull consulting team
who drafted the design standards. She explained the process that has transpired to prepare the
draft document and historic district designation. Input was obtained from the Eichler residents,
community workshops and an advisory committee which consisted of nine Eichler home owners.
Ms. Moshier noted that the goal of the study session is to obtain comments and recommendations
from the residents and the Design Review Committee. Once a final document is complete, the
Design Review Committee will make a recommendation to the Planning Commission who, will
in turn,make a recommendation to the City Council for final determination.
John Lesak, Architect and Flora Chou, Architectural Historian from Page & Turnbull provided a
visual presentation of the following:
• Their qualifications as consultants ,
• An introduction on the history and purpose of design standards and historic districts as
outlined in Chapter 1. Mr. Lesak reviewed the five core principles of the design
standards.
• A brief explanation of how design standards are used as outlined in Chapter 2.
• Guidelines for repairing and replacing original materials and standards for original
features as outlined in Chapter 4.
• Standard features and guidance for additions, second stories and accessory structures as
outlined in Chapter 5.
• Standards for setting and common landscape as outlined in Chapter 6. Mr. Lesak stated
� no original community landscape design has been found for the tracts and noted that the
driveway relationship to the garage/carports creates rhythms within the neighborhood,
and the tracts have a pattern of open space so that the houses are not obscured.
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Final Meeting Minutes for August 1, 2018
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Mr. Lesak explained the various topics that were discussed at the workshops. Many residents
who attended the workshops were generally in favor of preserving the character of the homes
through design standards and creating a historic district designation. However, some residents
were concerned about having too many limitations placed on them.
Ms. Chou stated the design standards would only apply when there is a proposed project; they
are not retroactive and would apply to contributors as well as non-contributors.
Ms Chou asked the Committee for feedback on the context of the following terminology used
throughout the document:
• "shall" - a required standard
• "should" - guidance or recommendation
• "appropriate" - would likely be approved by staff or the Committee because it meets
standards; provides clarifying points about how something might meet a design objective
• "encourage" - is something that is not required but is a recommendation from a
preservation perspective, such as restoring an altered feature
• "consider" —a suggestion, something to think about
Mr. Lesak encouraged the Committee Members to review the charts on pages 33 through 35 that
describe.common project types and the level of review that would be needed for projects.
Chair McCormack opened the public comment portion of the meeting.
�
Douglas Wade, 723 E. Palmdale Avenue, an attorney, member of the Eichler Advisory
Committee, and Eichler owner home. He stated it is time to recognize the Eichler homes as
historic districts; design standards should be adopted in order to preserve the historic nature of
the neighborhood. He feels the standards that have been proposed are an excellent document.
Tom Armbruster, 1288 N. San Remo Place, stated his home burned down in 2000 and he rebuilt
it. He stated they went through all the approvals and inspections and everything was approved
until the Police Department had to sign off. They would not approve the design because of the
amount of interior glass which made the house difficult to protect if there was an intrusion. They
eventually signed off on it, but he hopes other people don't have similar problems in the future.
Carol Fox, 741 E. Glendale Avenue, stated she has been a part of the workshop process and has
done a thorough review of the document. She feels the document is very well done, however
there are a few inconsistencies in the document such as existing contributing structures versus
additions and new infill. She feels second-story additions should be prohibited because they will
destroy privacy. She feels cementitious board siding or composite materials should not be
allowed to be viewed in the public realm; they should only be allowed in the semi-private realm
or atrium areas. She also feels glass blocks should be prohibited, especially in the public realm
and they are not mentioned anywhere in the document.
She submitted her edited document to staff which contained other recommendations and
typographical/grainmatical corrections for their review.
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Final Meeting Minutes for August 1, 2018
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Gordon Adams, 1720 N. Woodside Street, feels the City should go beyond the standard six-foot
back fence and allow them to build fences up to nine feet for more privacy.
Bill Salamandrakis, 760 S. Oakwood Street, lives in the Fairhaven tract and submitted his
comments in a document to staff. He feels the review time was not appropriate and would like to
see another revised draft with more time to review along with another public comment session.
He says there are many logical inconsistencies in the document especially with the use of shall
versus should.
He stated people never signed up to have regulation of materials inside the house. The standards
need to provide guidance and not get too pervasive into the home.
Marinus Welman, 5111 Elsinore Avenue, has lived in an Eichler for 42 years. He stated he does
not feel outside people, who do not live in one of the homes, should be creating the design
standards. He stated he has a large tree in the front and does not intend to remove it because it
provides shade inside the home.
Chair McCormack closed the public comment portion of the meeting.
Committee observations and comments:
• Eichler homes have a definite unique style and need protection as historic districts
• It is good that residents are allowed to do what they want in the interior of the home
• The draft document is superlative and functional with very few major issues
• It is important to avoid tall landscaping and not block the architecture
• The residents want privacy in their own residence
• Even though the houses are similar, there is no common landscape. One Committee
Member expressed that the landscape section should have more "shalls" and the
document needs more landscape detail. Residents can use their atriums and backyard to
satisfy their landscape preferences, while the front yards should reflect Modern landscape
design principles
• As requested by the public,the review time should be extended
• The document should specify that HVAC rooftop equipment should not be allowed
• More detail should be given to what does not go with the aesthetics of the home
• More photos should be provided that illustrate the do's and don'ts, and the photos and
illustrations should be labeled with checkmarks to show the do's and don'ts.
• The language related to AC/heat on page 92 should be softened to reflect that people do
live without air conditioning.
• In the section about noncontributing structures, a number of the sections say the standards
from other chapters apply, but there are other points where the standards do not reference
other chapters. The Committee would like to see more clarification on what standards
apply for specific features on non-contributing buildings.
• Some Committee members expressed that landscaping should have a more formal review
and approval process and they need a way to explain the design principles of Modern
landscape design. The concept of sustainability should also be injected in order to
support the design principles.
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Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
Page 9 of 11
• One of the Eichler neighborhoods' biggest defining features is the streetscape; it is a very
clear open space and too many things can interrupt it. The Design Standards do not have
to specify particular plants, but they should address landscape design principles.
• Paint colors are not a required element in the Design Standards; they are provided for
inspiration to homeowners. Some Committee members expressed that the standards
should include requirements for paint colors.
• Where and when the design standards apply should be more clearly defined and
emphasized; the standards only apply when changes are made.
• On page 23 in the treatment hierarchy flowchart, a Committee member recommended
that it should read" if changes are proposed, they shall be compatible with Eichler
aesthetics and neighborhood"; "shall"replaces"should."
• Committee Members will provide their documents to staff with their copy edits.
• The Committee has not had the time to go through the comments that have been
submitted this evening and it is important that they collectively do that.
In response to a Committee member's question about the terminology used in the standards, Ms.
Moshier stated "shall" is a requirement and is intended to be specific and limited to those things
that are so important that if they change, it would really change the character of the
house/neighborhood as a whole. "Should" are encouragements,the practices that they would like
to see for the preservation of the neighborhood but they're not a requirement because there may
be a different creative design principle that could be used to come to a compatible solution.
She stated design principles for landscape and best practices for how to paint a house to fit in
with the character of the neighborhood fall into the realm of "should". It is strongly
recommended language, but they are elements that have a lot of personal taste and character to
them and they want people to be able to express their personal tastes in their houses.
Chair McCormack stated he would like to see a revised document and comments with a longer
review period.
Bill Crouch, Community Development Director stated the staff will reach out to the Design
Review Committee to coordinate another session.
Chair McCormack reopened the public comment portion of the meeting.
Mr. Wade suggested bifurcating the document with respect to the building and landscape. There
is no historic reference with respect to the landscaping and the Committee is creating the design
standards for landscaping from the ground up and establishing a different set of standards. There
has been no consensus among the homeowners as to whether or not they want the landscaping to
be that highly regulated; similarly with the color of the houses. The houses, as built, were
stained not painted and they are now all painted.
Chair McCormack stated there are known landscape principles and design standards for
midcentury landscape that would provide a framework, not a requirement. This Committee has
' always had a great focus on landscape treatment. He feels the color palette should have a range.
City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
Page 10 of 11
Mr. Lesak stated they can get some of the landscape principles in the document without having
to do a major shift.
Harriet Toplansky stated she has attended all of the other community meetings and now feels
there is getting to be too much regulation; too many "shalls" on the landscaping and the colors.
She asked what would happen if some residents did not want to participate. There were no
restrictions when the homeowners originally purchased the home and now they're being added;
she doesn't want to be told what color to paint her home or what kind of rock to use
Ms. Moshier stated the historic district applies to all of the properties in the boundaries of the
original tract; everyone is in or out together, it is collective. The City Council would have to
approve or remove the designation. The Committee is there to make recommendations on the
Design Standards. However, staff has heard from the residents that they are not interested in
regulations on landscaping or paint color and, based on that, do not intend to make it a
requirement.
Bill Salamandrakis cautioned that the landscaping and colors axe controversial amongst the
residents.
Carol Fox stated it is much easier to monitor a"should" statement, because it allows residents to
come up with a solution to different situations. She also feels that the Committee should
deliberate some of the specifics that are in the document to make sure that they are on the right
side of appropriate or inappropriate. There has been no discussion on the architecture and there
is a lack of clarity for panels on front doors, for example.
Mr. Salamandrakis stated it would be helpful to publish the updated documents on the website.
Ms. Moshier stated if anybody thinks of any suggestions or comments after the meeting is over,
they can call her or send her email.
Hearing no other comments from the Committee or public, Chair McCormack asked for a
motion to adjourn.
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Final Meeting Minutes for August 1,2018
Page 11 of 11
ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made to adjourn at 8:33 p.m. The next regular meeting is scheduled on
Wednesday,August 15,2018, at 7:00 p.m.
MOTION: Skorpanich
SECOND: McDermott
AYES: McCormack, Skorpanich, and McDermott
NOES: None
ASSENT: Imboden, Fox
MOTION CARRIED.
Meeting adjourned at 8:33 p.m.