2017-12-06 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES - FINAL
December 6, 2017
Committee Members Present: Robert Imboden- Chair
Carol Fox
Anne McDermott
Mary Anne Skorpanich
Committee Members Absent: Tim McCormack
Staff in Attendance: Marissa Moshier, Historic Preservation Planner
Kelly Ribuffo, Associate Planner
Tiffany Chhan, Planning Aide
Simonne Fannin, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session —5:00
Chair Imboden opened the Administrative Session at 5:00 p.m.
Chair Imboden inquired if there was any Policy or Procedural information.
Ms. Moshier introduced Simone Fannin, the new recording secretary for Design Review Committee
and Planning Commission and Tiffany Chhan, Planning Aide who will be working at the public
counter.
The Design Standards for Old Towne went to the Planning Commission on November 20. The
Commission accepted all of the DRC's recommended changes and City Council made additional
changes and recommended adoption to the City Council. It will be presented to City Council on
Tuesday, December 12.
Ms. Moshier added that the Killefer Square project will bring a very substantially revised project for
a preliminary review to the December 20 meeting. This is the fifth preliminary review for the
project. There are no items currently scheduled for the first meeting in January; therefore that
meeting likely will be cancelled.
Chair Imboden shared his concerns that the Committee has continued a discussion for so long under
preliminary review without noticing or community involvement.
Kelly Ribuffo stated the Chapman University Villa Park Orchard Packing House is now in plan
check for the residential building and modifications to the Packing House. All of the recommended
conditions from the Committee have been incorporated. Ms. Ribuffo reviewed the schedule for
demolishing the non-historic structures and excavation and noted that the Orange Homegrown
farmers market will be relocated to the Becket Building parking lot owned by Chapman University.
Committee Member Skorpanich asked if the elevations on the renderings on page 8 of the Item No. 3
- Johnson Residence are mislabeled. Ms. Ribuffo stated that they are mislabeled; the front of the
house is the east elevation.
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Meeting Minutes for December 6, 2017
Page 2 of 10
Chair Imboden stated that he observed that a house on Palmyra that was previously reviewed by the
DRC has a garage door that is simulated wood, a synthetic material deck that was not part of the
project approval, and an addition that appears to be clad in synthetic siding. Ms. Moshier advised
there is a Code Enforcement case pending on this property.
Committee Member Skorpanich asked about a house on South Lemon which is painted fire engine
red with a large structure in the back that is bright yellow. Committee Member Fox added property
owners do not have to come to the DRC for approval of house colors. Ms. Moshier agreed that paint
palettes are not typically reviewed for residential properties; however she has had a conversation
with the property owner.
Committee Members reviewed and made minor changes to the Design Review Committee minutes
for November 1, 2017 and November 15, 2017.
Committee Member Skorpanich made a motion to close the Administrative Session of the Design
Review Committee meeting.
SECOND: McDermott
AYES: Imboden, Fox, McDermott and Skorpanich
NOES: None
ABSENT: McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:27 p.m.
City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 6,2017
Page 3 of 10
Regular Session—5:40 p.m.
ROLL CALL:
Committee Members Imboden, McDermott, Skorpanich, and Fox were present. Committee Member
McCormack absent.
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for Members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not
listed on the Agenda.
There were no speakers.
CONSENT ITEMS:
(1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: NOVEMBER 1,2017 AND NOVEMBER 15,2017
Committee Member Skorpanich made a motion to approve the minutes from the Design Review
Committee meeting of November 1, 2017 and November 15, 2017, as emended during the
discussion at the Administrative Session.
SECOND: Committee Member Fox
AYES: Fox, Imboden, McDermott, and Skorpanich
NOES: None
ABSENT: McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
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Meeting Minutes for December 6, 2017
Page 4 of 10
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items: None
New Agenda Items:
(2) DRC NO. 4803-15 URTH CAFFE
• A proposal to modify the approved exterior paint colors for a historic building in the Plaza
Historic District. Rehabilitation of the building was previously approved by the Design
Review Committee on November 4, 2015. The approval was amended by the DRC on July
20, 2016 at the applicant's request, based on historic building conditions uncovered during
construction.
• 100 W. Chapman Avenue
• Staff Contact: Marissa Moshier, 714-744-7243, mmoshier(a�citvoforan�g
• DRC Action: Final Determination
The representative who was present for this project was Victor Corona, architect.
Marissa Moshier, Historic Preservation Planner, presented a project overview consistent with the
Staff Report. She provided a color board with the proposed paint samples and noted that staff has
not made a recommendation in the staff report, as they would like to get the Committee's feedback
due to the fact that this is a prominent building in the Plaza. Ms. Moshier asked that relevant
findings, specifically 1, 2 and 3, be included in the Committee's motion on the item.
Committee Member McDermott asked if any of the proposed colors have been painted on the
building yet.
Victor Corona responded that the proposed brown has been painted at the corner entrance to see how
it matched with the wood doors. He added his client liked the natural rustic look of the columns.
She also wanted to highlight the detail on the cornice.
Committee Member Fox asked if the second story windows in the alley will be painted white and
Mr. Corona stated yes.
Chair Imboden asked if the uncolored muntins on one section of the Chapman elevation drawing are
an error and Mr. Corona stated yes.
Public Comments:
Chair Imboden opened the item to the Public for comments.
Doug Westfall, historian, stated there was a wagon wheel in the stairwell that couldn't be removed
and asked if it was still there. He also asked if the applicant could provide a banner with a Ford sign
on it as the building used to be a Ford dealer. He provided a historic photo of the dealer and the
Ford sign.
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Meeting Minutes for December 6,2017
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Chair Imboden asked if there has been discussion of signage since the DRC reviewed signage for the
restaurant. Mr. Corona stated they may revisit the signage above the entrance, but they do not intend
to propose signage in the location of the historic Ford sign.
Ms. Moshier stated that any changes to the signage would come back to the Committee for review.
Chair Imboden brought the item back to the Committee for discussion:
Chair Imboden asked if there will be any treatment done on the columns and Mr. Corona stated they
will clean up the columns and place a clear coat over them to preserve the existing finish.
The Committee generally supported the proposed paint palette as appropriate for the building and
harmonious with the historic materials. The Committee supported the proposal to leave the columns
in their existing state, as it reflects the age of the material. Chair Imboden requested a condition to
avoid any enhancement of the patina on the columns.
There was additional discussion of the proposed Swiss Coffee color on the upper floor windows. The
Committee discussed the fact that lighter upper floor windows are seen in some buildings on the
Plaza, including the Masonic Temple. However, some Committee Members noted the use of brown
on the upper floor windows. There was discussion of historic photographs of the building showing
darker upper floor windows.
There was also discussion of the proposal to add the Swiss Coffee color to some of the details on the
cornice. The Committee Members were generally not supportive of the multi-color cornice, because
it is a departure from the predominant treatment in the Plaza and will be very noticeable. It is mare
historically accurate to have the cornice all the same color.
As the staff report did not include findings, the Committee discussed the potential findings and
conditions for the project. Chair Imboden suggested Finding No. 1 state that the Committee finds the
proposal to be both consistent with the paint colors used in the Plaza today, as well as appropriate for
an historic building of this type. All other Members felt the wording was adequate. Committee
Member Fox added the fact that all these proposed finishes are allowed by the standards.
Chair Imboden stated in Finding No. 2 they can add "the proposed palette of colors is consistent and
historically appropriate for a building of this type." Chair Imboden added "colors that are
recommended are based on photographic evidence of archival imagery".
Committee Members discussed the different color options for the windows, sills, keystones, sashes,
frames, and precast pieces. Committee Member Skorpanich recapped their discussion:
• Swiss Coffee is being eliminated from the cornice, so that the cornice will only be one color
• Swiss Coffee in the upper floor windows is being replaced by Burns Cave to reflect the
historic photographs
• The color palette on the first level can be approved as presented
Committee Member Fox read the following Findings for the project:
City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 6,2017
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Finding No. 1 - In the Old Towne Historic District the proposed work conforms to the prescriptive
standards and design criteria referenced and or recommended by the DRC or other reviewing body
for the project. The proposal is consistent with paint colors used today and historically in the Plaza
and all proposed finishes are allowed by the standards.
Finding No. 2 - In any National Register Historic District, the proposed work complies with the
Secretary of the Interior's Standards and Guidelines. The retention of existing column conditions
further emphasizes the history of the building and preserves the original materials.
Finding No. 3 - The project design upholds community aesthetics through the use of an internally
consistent, integ-rated design theme and is consistent with all adopted specific plans, applicable
design standards and the required findings. The proposed color placement, as amended by the
Committee, is based on archival photographic images.
Committee Member Fox made a motion to approve DRC No. 4803-15, Urth Caffe, based on
Findings 1, 2 and 3 as read in the meeting and including the conditions listed in the Staff Report with
the following additional conditions:
• Faux aging shall not be applied to the iron columns.
• The color Swiss Coffee shall be removed from the palette.
• The cornice shall be finished in Boutique Beige as originally proposed.
• The second floor windows' wood components shall be painted Burns Cave and the second
floor precast sills shall be painted Alabaster.
SECOND: Committee Member McDermott
AYES: Fox, Imboden, McDermott, and Skorpanich
NOES: None
ABSENT: McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 6, 2017
Page 7 of 10
(3) DRC NO. 4923-17 JOHNSON RESIDENCE
• A proposal to construct a new 660 SF addition to an existing single family residence. The
property is a non-contributing resource to the Old Towne Historic District.
• 466 N. Pine Street
• Staff Contact: Kelly Ribuffo, 714-744-7223, kribuffo(a�cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Kelly Ribuffo, Associate Planner, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. She
pointed out that the applicant is proposing vinyl windows for the proposed addition which is
generally not a material used in the historic district. She indicated that the design standards for Old
Towne do allow for approval of alternative materials by the Design Review Committee where
appropriate. The existing non-permitted vinyl windows have been on the home from the previous
owner since 2005. The material substitution for the addition could be considered to be appropriate as
it would allow for a consistency of window type and material on the home and the windows on the
addition would not be visible from the street, also, the property is noncontributing to the historic
district. Ms. Ribuffo expressed staff s opinion is that it could be consistent with the finding and not
have an adverse impact on the Historical District as a whole.
The representatives who were present for this project were Adam Johnson, Jessica Johnson, and
SandyJohnson
Public Comments:
Chair Imboden opened the item to the Public for comments.
Sandy Johnson stated the windows are of high quality and don't appear to be vinyl unless you touch
them.
Jessica Johnson stated their home is literally one house from not being in the historical zone.
Chair Imboden opened the item to the Committee for discussion:
Chair Imboden asked staff at what point did they require that non-contributors' modifications be
done in the style consistent with the period of the original construction.
Ms. Moshier the standards were last updated in 1999; therefore this update predated the windows in
the photo.
Committee Member Fox stated she drove past the home and asked Ms. Ribuffo why the house looks
different than the photo.
Adam Johnson described the work that had been initiated on the house, and indicated that they
anticipated a shorter permitting process; therefore they started some of the work.
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Meeting Minutes for December 6,2017
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All the Committee Members were in support of the addition as proposed.
Chair Imboden stated he understood staff s comments about the consistent appearance of the
windows, and that the addition is not visible from the street, and agreed that it would not have an
adverse impact on the Historic District. His expressed concern about not setting a precedent of
approving non-permitted modifications which later drive the project.
Committee Member Fox stated some of the homes on that street have the original wood windows
with the single horizontal muntin going across the middle and about half have been replaced with
vinyl windows, which were probably done without permits. She objected to the use of vinyl
windows.
Chair Imboden stated the solution would be to allow the windows to match; however the design
standards have led the Committee to deny previous vinyl window proposals that have come before
them.
Committee Member Skorpanich offered the following perspective: if new vinyl windows were to be
approved, when the time came to replace the existing vinyl windows, replacement with vinyl would
be justified; this creates the precedent the Committee seeks to avoid. However, if wood windows
were required for the addition, it would dictate that the existing vinyl windows be replaced with
wood in the future. This scenario avoids setting a precedent for vinyl.
Sandy Johnson and the Committee members discussed the period of the house in relation to the
window material, with Chair Imboden and Committee Member Fox reiterated that the Old Towne
Design Standards call for modifications to noncontributing buildings to be consistent with the
original design or the period in which it was originally built.
Committee Member Skorpanich explained that if they installed new wood windows, when it comes
time to replace the existing vinyl windows, they should be replaced with wood at that time.
Jessica Johnson noted that many neighbors have vinyl windows.
Committee Member Fox indicated that had those changes come before the DRC, vinyl windows
would not have been approved.
Chair Imboden reiterated the standards prohibit vinyl windows and the DRC has to make the
appropriate findings in order to allow them. He also added that the staff report indicated that the
windows are not visible from the street therefore the DRC could easily make a finding that the
inconsistency would not have an impact on the Historic District. He asked for comment from the
staff.
Ms. Moshier stated that staff took the position that the "historic resource" is the Historic District.
With non-contributors, the question is whether the material change has an impact on the Historic
District as a whole. Generally their opinion that high-quality alternate material replacement on a
non-contributor does not have an impact to the Historic District. That is the approach they took in
recommending approval of the project.
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Meeting Minutes for December 6, 2017
Page 9 of 10
Chair Imboden noted that following the rules is essential to him and questioned if the DRC approves
this project, how could other requests be denied in the future. He did not have enough ordinance
language to support the findings.
Adam Johnson asked if they can just strike the word vinyl.
Committee Member Fox proposed changing Finding No. 1 by leaving the first three sentences intact,
then striking the remainder of the paragraph beginning with "Vinyl has been proposed..."
Chair Imboden explained to the applicant that there are required findings that need to be made and
based on the requirements in the Municipal Code, this Committee does not feel they can make those
findings. If the Committee approves the project with removing part of the finding that discusses the
vinyl windows and adds a condition that the new windows must be wood, they wouldn't have to
change the existing vinyl windows and could approve the project.
Adam Johnson was agreeable to that suggestion.
Committee Member Skorpanich made a motion to approve DRC No. 4923-17, Johnson Residence
based on the findings in the staff report with the exception of the deletion in Finding No. 1 beginning
with the sentence "Vinyl has been proposed.." and conditions listed in the Staff Report with the
following additional condition:
1. All new installed windows and doors shall be wood.
SECOND: Fox
AYES: Fox, Imboden, McDermott, and Skorpanich
NOES: None
ABSENT: McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange—Design Review Committee
Meeting Minutes for December 6,2017
Page 10 of 10
ADJOURNMENT:
Committee Member Skorpanich made a motion to adjourn to the next Design Review Committee
meeting on Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 5:00 p.m.
SECOND: McDermott
AYES: Fox, Imboden, McDermott, and Skorpanich
NOES: None
ABSENT: McCormack
MOTION CARRIED.
Meeting adjourned at 7:00 p.m.