2012-11-07 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE
DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE
MINUTES - FINAL
November 7, 2012
Committee Members Present: Tim McCormack
Carol Fox
Robert Imboden
Craig Wheeler
Joe Woollett
Committee Members Absent: None
Staff in Attendance: Anna Pehoushek, Principal Planner
Lucy Yeager, Contract Staff Planner
Robert Garcia, Associate Planner
Doris Nguyen, Associate Planner
Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary
Administrative Session — 5:00 P.M.
Chair Woollett opened the Administrative Session at 5:06 p.m. and asked if there was anything
to discuss.
Principal Planner, Anna Pehoushek, asked if the Committee Members had received the roof
plans for the BJ's project? The Committee Members had received the additional information.
Committee Member Fox asked about the letter they had received and was it something that was
for discussion during the Administrative Session?
Chair Woollett stated it was something that was just passed on.
Ms. Pehoushek stated it was for information only and it appeared it was not a DRC issue.
Committee Member Imboden asked if the author of the letter had an application with the City?
Ms. Pehoushek stated no, there was not an application received; it was information only.
Chair Woollett stated the DRC's decision on the Colgan residence that had gone before the
Planning Commission had been upheld.
Ms. Pehoushek stated the denial was upheld unanimously.
Associate Planner, Robert Garcia, stated the appeal to the Planning Commission had been
assisted by Mayor Cavecche and she had waived the fee. He was not certain if in another go-
around that the fee would be waived; staff was waiting to hear.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he understood that the America's Tire project had been
approved.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 2 of 16
The Committee Members reviewed the meeting minutes of October 17, 2012. Changes and
corrections were noted.
Committee Member McCormack asked if they could get an update on the Street Tree Master
Plan?
Ms. Pehoushek stated yes, she had just received a copy of the outline prepared by the City's
consultant. The City's internal staff team would be meeting before the holidays to discuss.
Committee Member McCormack stated he would want that to be brought before the DRC for
discussion as it was an urban design issue and not just cutting trees.
Ms. Pehoushek stated she had relayed information to Public Works that there had been an
interest from the DRC to be involved in the process.
Ms. Pehoushek also mentioned that the City's Preservation Element in the General Plan had been
recognized with a Governor's Award for historic preservation. It was part of the General Plan
that had been adopted in 2010.
Chair Woollett asked if it was being revised?
Ms. Pehoushek stated the Old Towne Design Standards were being revised. That project was
creeping along; it was slow, but they were working with a consultant to develop graphics for the
document. Dan Ryan, Historic Preservation Planner, was working on the text. When there was
something to bring forward, it would be brought to the DRC.
Chair Woollett asked if there was a process whereby revisions to Standards could be suggested.
As they went along and found something that was inconsistent or needed clarification, they
should be able to make a recommendation for clarification. Was there an amendment procedure?
Ms. Pehoushek stated it was something they could revisit on a regular basis and they were doing
that with the General Plan; to check in with the implementers of the document and identify issues
that needed to be refined or resolved. When the Old Towne Design Standards update was
initiated quite some time ago, staff met with the DRC, Planning Commission, OTPA, and
solicited input from other groups and looked at recurring issues or points of conflict and they had
a pretty extensive list of items that they were addressing.
Chair Woollett stated he would not want to wait five years to change something and thought it
would be useful during an Administrative Session to discuss a particular concern, something that
was repetitive or a recurring issue, to make a recommendation to Staff. The DRC would want a
response to the request and any amendment would need to be approved probably by the Planning
Commission.
Committee Member Imboden stated if it was something they would need to take formal action
on, it would probably require agendizing. Could the Chair twice a year or however many times
it was deemed necessary ask for a discussion session agendized and everyone could come with a
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 3 of 16
list of things to be discussed. The DRC was an advisory board, and could Ms. Pehoushek ask
that their request be forwarded to the City Council for consideration and action?
Ms. Pehoushek stated that the first of the year in an SRC meeting they would distribute the
sections of the General Plan to the appropriate departments for their review and feedback to keep
the document current. Something similar could be done with the DRC and Old Towne Design
Standards.
Chair Woollett stated they had run into the issue with plastic lettering and if vinyl was
considered plastic or was it paint and they had gone around the issue and it was an issue that
required an amendment. With lighting they were dealing with LED. Things changed.
Ms. Pehoushek stated maybe it was an appropriate time to check into those things.
Chair Woollett stated now that the Old Towne Design Standards were being updated it would be
appropriate. He presumed that they could decide on an issue and ask for consideration through
an amendment.
Ms. Pehoushek stated that may be a better way of approaching it.
Committee Member Imboden stated the items they were discussing were not big philosophical
subjects. Such items were straight forward issues and they could get that down in black and
white and make changes that were appropriate; little things that kept coming up.
Committee Member Imboden stated he would be recused from Item No. 2, the Chapman
University agenda item.
Committee Member Fox made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session of the Design
Review Committee meeting.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Tim McCormack, Carol Fox, Robert Imboden, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
Administrative Session adjourned at 5:25 p.m.
Regular Session - 5:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
All Committee Members were present.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 4 of 16
PUBLIC PARTICIPATION:
Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on
matters not listed on the Agenda.
There were no speakers.
CONSENT ITEMS:
(1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: October 17, 2012
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to approve the minutes from the Design Review
Committee meeting of October 17, 2012, with the changes and correction noted during the
Administrative Session.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Tim McCormack, Carol Fox, Robert Imboden, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 5 of 16
AGENDA ITEMS:
Continued Items None
New Agenda Items
(2) DRC No. 4592 -11 - CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY- CENTER FOR THE ARTS - DETAILED
EXTERIOR LIGHTING PLANS
• A proposal to consider detailed exterior lighting plans with conditions to the Community
Development Director, which has final consideration of the project relative to previously
approved MJSP No. 0679 -11, VAR No. 2217 -12, and said referenced DRC No. 4592 -11.
• 415 N. Glassell Street, located on the Chapman University Campus
• Staff Contact: Lucy Yeager, 714 - 744 -7239, lyeager(a,cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Recommendation to the Community Development Director
Committee Member Imboden recused himself from the item's presentation due to his
involvement with a Chapman University non - profit program.
Committee Member Wheeler provided a handout of his concerns to the applicants.
Contract Staff Planner, Lucy Yeager, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff
Report.
Applicant, Ken Ryan, KTGY Group, address on file, stated he was accompanied by other
members of his team and representatives from Chapman University and they were available for
questions.
Public Comment
None.
Chair Woollett opened the item to the Committee for discussion.
Committee Member Fox asked how far below street level was the main entry off of the
promenade?
Applicant, Kris Olsen, Chapman University, address on file, stated at the front door for the
Center for the Arts it was approximately 9' below the grade of Glassell.
Mr. Ryan stated there was a rendering that showed the relationship to Glassell and the stepping
down with the landscape and there was the accurate elevation of the building as it related to the
currently built Chapel.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on the drawings there was a statement "shown for City
reference only." He asked what the notation referred to?
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Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 6 of 16
Applicant, Tom Ruzika, address on file, stated the comment was to note that the fixtures were
being shown to the City. \
Committee Member Wheeler stated on sheet LT -1 there were down lights that appeared to wash
the columns and what concerned him was would the ring of the Tempietto be dark?
Mr. Ruzika stated there were the wash lights inside that would provide for a glow. They had
looked at placing up lighting into the ground, however, there was the glare factor and there was a
question of if straight up lights would be allowed. It was all with an internal glow. On the
outside with bollards and other lighting on the outside, those would also have a glow and not a
pure silhouette. The emphasis was more of light just emanating out.
Committee Member Wheeler stated what about the signage that was on the entablature?
Mr. Ruzika stated that would be lit with the glow.
Committee Member Wheeler suggested using channel letters.
Mr. Olsen stated maybe not; they were wanting a more subtle appearance. They were working
on the signage package and they had used a similar approach on the library. The letters were
filled with a material that was reflective, a liquid metal, and the lights would make the letters
reflective.
Mr. Ryan stated the sign program would return before the DRC for their review.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on note 12, there was a call out for up and down lighting and
he could only find down lighting shown on the drawings.
Mr. Ruzika stated there were lights at the base shooting up from the columns. He reviewed the
lighting areas with the Committee Members. The lights would be installed at the base and away
from any walking surface. There were eight up lights and ten down lights.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if they would consider up lighting on an area he pointed to
on the drawings.
Mr. Ruzika stated there was a glare factor to consider and there was also the modesty issue with
ladies in dresses using the area.
Committee Member Wheeler stated on the inside of the ring there were four sconces and there
were eight columns. The sconces would be between every other column. With classical design
the treatment should be the same all the way around and having the lights every other column
appeared cheap.
Mr. Ruzika stated the lights were not supposed to be for column lighting, but column accents and
the lights had a bit of a curve to them. The idea was to glow the area and it was not a column
accent light and mounted inside; it was a wall mount and a simple sconce.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 7of16
Committee Member Wheeler stated the light fixtures would be visible during the daytime hours
and he wondered if it would not be better to have eight of them.
Mr. Ruzika stated they had not wanted to have an impact of light fixtures and wanted less
visibility. They had not wanted a statement of light fixtures.
Committee Member Wheeler presented a sample of lighting that might work for the area.
Mr. Ruzika stated he had not wanted to compete with the columns.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he would think having lights between every column would
be better.
Chair Woollett stated the lights would silhouette the columns. Would the lights be on every
night, all night?
Mr. Olsen stated the lights would not be on all night.
Mr. Ruzika stated the lights would be on a "bar closing" schedule and with patrons coming out
from a late show they would want to maintain the lighting.
Chair Woollett stated it was a symbolic piece of architecture for the community and if the lights
were on every night, driving by, it would be visible.
Mr. Olsen stated they had not yet figured out the timing for the lighting.
Committee Member Fox asked if all the lights being presented would be on every night or only
when there were performances?
Mr. Olsen stated those lights that were not security - oriented would probably shut off around
midnight.
Committee Member Fox stated the up lighting was a concern to her. In attempting to count how
many lights there were in the area and she respected how many of the lights were shrouded and
the pathways would glow. She was concerned with one of the areas noted on the plans; it was
having the feeling of a landing strip with so many up lights. Since they were related to the trees
and were up lighting the trees, she asked if the trees were deciduous?
Mr. Olsen stated the trees were Crape Myrtle.
Committee Member Fox asked if the foliage on the trees would be supported by the up lights?
Committee Member McCormack stated in looking at both sides of the promenade there were
lights in the corner and on the other side the lights were pushed back. On the planting plan he
looked at what areas would have up lighting. There was an area with roses and those had a
potential to block the light. To have the light right in the center on the tree could be a solution.
With the three Magnolias, some were lit, and there were shrubs that would get to 24" tall and
there were lights available in a sleeve with a riser and the lights would not get buried.
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Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 8 of 16
Mr. Ryan stated they had that situation in another area on campus and it was as if the lights were
in canisters.
Committee Member McCormack stated he would suggest they do that in those areas with the
shrubs. He pointed out some other areas on the plans that the lighting installation might need to
be adjusted depending on the planting areas.
Mr. Olsen stated some of the trees were on a different level and part of another system and part
of the street tree area.
Mr. Ryan stated with the Crape myrtle they had great structure whether there were leaves or not
and their thought was that it would create drama with the tree structure.
Committee Member Wheeler asked would it create light pollution when there were no leaves?
Committee Member Fox stated with the scale of the area being so residential she had thought
there was a lot of lighting.
Mr. Ryan stated with the elevation change there should not be an issue.
Committee Member McCormack stated on one of the fixtures he sensed some glare to people
walking in that area and he asked if there was a frosted lense or a louvered lense?
Mr. Ruzika stated they could look into a louvered lense, but with using an LED light they had to
balance how much light they would actually get when they used a different lense.
Committee Member McCormack stated in transitioning to the pole lights he asked if they had
looked into cut offs on that side? They were 12' tall and it was 9' below and the lights would
probably be visible from the street at eye level or car level.
Committee Member Fox stated the grade changed and the lights would be marching down below
street level.
Mr. Ruzika stated they were trying to have a uniform pool of light and in using cut offs they
would lose the nice round pool of light. He was not certain if it would make a difference on the
street side.
The Committee Members reviewed the plans and placements of the lights.
Committee Member McCormack stated having cut offs was just something to think about.
Mr. Ruzika stated there would be areas of darkness if they used cut offs. The street lights hardly
put out any light, those were the existing lights.
Committee Member Fox asked Committee Member McCormack if the amount of light on the
Crape Myrtle was sufficient?
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Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 9 of 16
Committee Member McCormack stated it was well done and would be beautiful.
Mr. Ruzika stated it was also a matter of attempting to find what direction would work and
where the lights needed to be installed to direct the light appropriately in the trees. They
attempted to get the light as far away from the root ball of the tree and this was the reason they
placed the lights in the corner.
Committee Member McCormack stated the lights were square and there was an aluminum
flange. He personally liked the lights aligned with the tree.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if there had been any thought of adding a sculpture at the
Tempietto?
Mr. Olsen stated there had been a lot of discussion about that and the thought was that the area
would be a gathering place and functions would happen there and the ultimate decision was to
keep the area clear.
Chair Woollett stated they looked over the work presented with a lot of detail because they
appreciated it and it was beautiful work and they felt that they were part of it.
Mr. Olsen stated they were part of the process.
Chair Woollett stated the DRC was the eyes of the City and they appreciated the work that
Chapman University was involved in.
Committee Member McCormack asked if there had been a soil analysis at the site for soil that
had not seen the light of day for centuries; he was concerned about whether there was any
organic material 9' below grade?
Mr. Olsen stated that was a good point and he hoped that was something that was in their
landscape plan.
Committee Member Fox made a motion to recommend approval to the Community Development
Director, DRC No. 4592 -11, Chapman University- Center for the Arts Detailed Exterior Lighting
Plans, subject to the findings and conditions contained in the staff report.
SECOND: Tim McCormack
AYES: Carol Fox, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
RECUSED: Robert Imboden
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 10 of 16
(3) DRC No. 4640 -12 — BJ's RESTAURANT & BREWHOUSE
• A proposal for a new 8,376 sq. ft. restaurant, including a new 1,718 sq. ft. patio area, at
the former Firestone Tire building site at the Outlets at Orange.
• 460 S. The City Drive
• Staff Contact: Robert Garcia, 714 - 744 -7231, rgarcia ,cityoforange.org
• DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission
Associate Planner, Robert Garcia, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Applicant, Jamie Knollmiller, address on file, stated they used a rich color palette with natural
stones and slate. They had a rose lime stone that would be used around the entry and was a
prominent feature. The wainscot was amber gold. There was also an outdoor dining area. She
shared photos with the Committee Members. Mr. Garcia provided the material samples to the
Committee Members.
Ms. Knollmiller went through the samples and pointed out where the materials and colors would
be used. They discussed the lighting. There were three murals that would be used on the
project; one would be inside and two would be on the exterior elevations. The mural inside
would be on a stretched canvas on a frame. They used a 3M fabric and they had not had any
issues with it fading or tearing. The series of murals was a "turn -of -the- century" depiction of
migrant workers in the field during a harvest and that connected to BJ's core values of the
restaurant being a family restaurant. The restaurant had a comfortable price point average of
$13.00 per guest check. They knew people worked hard for their money and it was discretionary
money; they recognized that people worked hard and the murals were that "turn -of -the- century"
feel.
Committee Member Wheeler asked if the murals would count as signage?
Mr. Garcia stated yes, they would look at them as signage. The Outlets of Orange had a very
generous sign program and allowed for different things.
Ms. Knollmiller stated there was no signage in the murals, no lettering or advertising. They
considered the mural pieces as art.
Committee Member Wheeler commented on the parapet that returned and stopped; the DRC
generally asked that the corners be mitered, the corner of the cornice.
Applicant, Joan Leguay, address on file, stated one thing that was probably not clear about the
parapet was that there was not a stop in the parapet. It had a back side and when looking at the
back side the stone actually wrapped all the way around.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that appeared not to be the case. He pointed out the area he
spoke to on the drawings.
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Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 11 of 16
Ms. Leguay stated Committee Member Wheeler was correct, it was lower. They would miter
those.
Committee Member Wheeler stated that same thing had been required on the Tuskatella Center
at Tustin and Katella; however, it either did not get on the drawings or the contractor didn't
notice it and they were required to go back and fix it. Also, he presented a Frank Lloyd Wright
photo and pointed out the horizontal banding on the building. Each of the different elements
came up to a module on the band. That was not being done in the proposal before them. He
suggested that the cornice heights be adjusted.
Ms. Leguay stated they would take that suggestion to think about.
Committee Member Imboden asked how many stores were they currently operating?
Ms. Knollmiller stated they had 130 stores and they had been very fortunate to have the ability to
grow. It was a tough operating environment and they had been attempting to come to Orange for
a long time and had been working with the City for three years.
Committee Member Fox asked if the flagship shop was still in Balboa?
Ms. Knollmiller stated that was one of the locations that they called their beach and college
locations. Their first site was in Santa Ana but it was not there anymore. Two guys from Ohio
had opened that location.
Committee Member McCormack asked if there was a landscape theme or concept? There were
the grasses and he was not certain if there was a concept and he was curious if there was.
Ms. Leguay stated they generally attempted to use what would be successful in the area that the
restaurant was and suitable for regional conditions.
Committee Member McCormack stated he had a few concerns about the plant selections, such as
the "Rosemary Huntington Carpet" was noted at 12" spacing and that plant would get 18" high
and 8' wide. The edge was arbitrary in terms of its line; he had thought the shaded area was
grass that would grow to the edge, but it was actually where the Rosemary was being planted. It
almost appeared as a boundary. He asked how that evolved? On the site plan there was a
walkway, but it was not reflected on the landscape plans and that needed to be resolved. Some
plants could be spaced closer together and turn into a hedge just in maintaining them. He was
okay with that if that was the design intent. With the Flaxes those would not work as well; they
had not done well with a crew cut given to them. Those plants would grow to 4' to 5' high and
as wide and it was spaced at 18" apart and after two years it would appear odd as they would
have been planted too close together. Whatever the concept was there appeared to be some areas
that would be problematic with maintenance and appearance issues. He suggested that the
landscape plan be reviewed for spacing and plant choices. Maybe have it be a condition that the
landscape plan be looked at again.
Chair Woollett stated when the project was built the City would enforce what was proposed.
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Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 12 of 16
Committee Member Wheeler asked if they would want to see a landscape plan return to the
DRC?
Committee Member McCormack stated yes, he felt strongly about that.
Committee Member Fox stated there were a lot of Chinese flame trees in there; she was not an
expert with a lot of trees, but she was familiar with that tree and every single flower would create
a tree. When planted in grass those would get mowed down and never developed, but in planters
they would come up everywhere.
Committee Member McCormack stated to solve that would be to understand where the plants
would be two years out and when shrubs covered the soil it would be difficult for the flowers to
seed without the light, the light would be so low. The intent would be not to see dirt in that area.
It all depended upon the maintenance program. There was some edge shown that would be turf.
It was overall at the Block; he designed the Block's landscaping, and the landscaping should
flow from one area to the other. Another issue he was interested in looking at was the irrigation.
The Committee Members discussed with the applicant and Staff when they wanted to have the
landscape plan return to the DRC.
Committee Member McCormack made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning
Commission, approving DRC No. 4640 -12, BJ's Restaurant & Brewhouse, subject to the
conditions and findings contained in the Staff Report and with the following conditions:
• The rear parapets where they passed over the top of the building shall have the corners
mitered.
• The landscape plan shall return to the DRC prior to building occupancy.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
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Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 13 of 16
(4) DRC No. 4645 -12 — CHILI'S RESTAURANT- FAQADE REMODEL
• A proposal to repaint the exterior fagade, replace the awnings, and install a LED rope
border on the exterior of the building.
• 1411 W. Katella Avenue
• Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714 - 744 -7223, dnguyen &ci oforange.org
• DRC Action: Final Determination
Associate Planner, Doris Nguyen, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report.
Committee Member Fox asked if there was a detail for the rope lights?
Ms. Nguyen stated there was a photo.
Applicant, Cheree Naes, address on file, stated it was some type of plastic with the light inside.
The name of the color was orange, but it was actually a red light at night.
Committee Member Wheeler asked what a dark member on the drawings was; he asked if it was
a trim band or something else?
Ms. Naes stated that was a paint band and not anything new being added.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he had a problem with that; he had a couple of problems
with the proposal. The building had so many different types of materials; there was horizontal
siding, vertical siding, stucco, brick, and now there was a painted band being added and it was
getting so terribly jumbled. The original building had the appearance of several small buildings
that had been put together and turned into a restaurant. They were getting away from that idea of
separate buildings with their own color and own theme. The horizontal band of paint would be
very weak.
Chair Woollett stated they could use a fiber cement band.
Committee Member Wheeler stated it was getting more jumbled.
Committee Member Fox stated a photo of another location had a before and after photo. She
asked if there was a material board to look at?
Ms. Nguyen stated there was a color board.
Committee Member Wheeler stated the other photo was a better presentation and there was not
so much added.
Ms. Naes presented another building photo at another site.
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Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 14 of 16
Committee Member McCormack stated that location had stone that was left in its natural state.
He was only a fan of painting brick if it was an Eichler home; if that was the only brick in the
center it might be acceptable. King's Fish House had brick and there were other brick elements
in the center and they were losing an integral thread of that center.
Committee Member Fox stated she had not seen brick throughout that center.
Ms. Nguyen stated there were some smaller brick areas in the center.
Committee Member Wheeler stated there were stone elements.
Committee Member McCormack stated maybe his initial thought was for the natural elements
that existed.
Ms. Nguyen stated there were other elements but they were all natural in color.
Committee Member McCormack stated he would not want to lose that natural element, that
natural feel. The other locations that were presented had a warmer feel to them. What existed at
that location with the natural brick was better and the painted brick was more for a Winchell's or
Denny's; not that those were bad, but he had seen some Chili's Restaurants that were warm and
inviting. It was a good thing to save.
Committee Member Imboden stated on a lot of levels he agreed with the comments made and he
understood the need to re- brand, but to some degree the Center had a brand and the City had a
brand with feel and color. The elevations had a lack of approach to the existing materials and
took a quality material and cheapened that. The other photos that were presented he was more in
favor of.
Chair Woollett stated there were other ways of applying the re- branding.
Committee Member Fox stated she had thought the painted brick was more of a re- branding, but
after reviewing the other photos that was not the case. The colors presented were great; she liked
the freshening up and the boldness with a small use of the green, that was really great. The
application of the colors in one of the other photos had much more clarity.
Chair Woollett stated the brick that was out there now was not actual brick, or maybe a thin brick
on stucco and simulated a used brick and quite artificial as far as he as concerned.
Ms. Nguyen stated on the King's Fish House there was brick that was actually broken and the
color that was on that brick was actually stained and not the natural brick color. A color had
been added to cover that brick.
The Committee Members reviewed the proposed drawings and the photos of other locations.
Chair Woollett stated when the brick was painted the joints were painted too and much was lost.
They had run into that on an old building in Old Towne; it was glazed brick and they ended up
re- glazing the brick with an epoxy. What had been on there had been glazed brick and they used
an epoxy coating instead. The comment about painting the brick and having the building lose
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 15 of 16
some of its intrinsic qualities made him think about the building near City Hall on Chapman and
Shaffer. The brick on that building had been painted over and it was a big mistake, as the
building had gone from a 1960's style to a renovation that failed. The Chili's was on a very
prominent corner of the City and they had to be careful that it would not slide downhill. The
idea of painting that stripe was part of that too. The building that was there was a big mistake
and not designed very well; there was now an opportunity for improvements.
Committee Member McCormack stated the material that was there now had a texture to it, and to
just flat paint it gave it a tilt -up appearance without the texture. The contrast gave it interest and
he would not want to see the brick painted.
Committee Member Wheeler stated he would suggest that that applicant restudy the use of the
paint, brick, and the painted band.
Committee Member Fox stated she would suggest that they follow one of the other locations as
presented in the photos, with the colors as depicted in the photos presented.
Committee Member Imboden stated at the end of the day what he felt was that the scheme that
was presented had not worked to improve the existing architecture, but chose to ignore it and it
also did that to the other buildings in the center. There was a collection of buildings there and
the proposal before them bore no relationship to the other buildings.
Committee Member Wheeler stated as the buildings had been initially built as more separate
buildings that were put together, although fiction, it was what the original architect attempted to
do. He would want that detail not to be ignored.
Committee Member Imboden stated as it appeared they were moving to a continuance. With the
lighting product he would want to see the detail of how it was attached and he would not want to
see it become a garland in a few years down the road. He would want it to be as tight and crisp
as when it was installed.
Committee Member Imboden made a motion to continue, DRC No. 4645 -12, Chili's Restaurant
and Fagade Remodel, to allow the applicant to return to the DRC with a revised proposal and
incorporate some of the suggestions and directions offered by the DRC.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
City of Orange — Design Review Committee
Final Meeting Minutes for November 7, 2012
Page 16 of 16
Chair Woollett stated they needed to speak about the schedule, as the next DRC meeting was
scheduled the day before the Thanksgiving holiday. He asked who would be available if they
had a meeting on that date, November 21, 2012? There were currently no items on that agenda.
Committee Member Fox stated she had out -of -town guests coming in that evening.
Committee Member Imboden stated he would prefer not to meet, however, he could make it if
needed.
Ms. Pehoushek stated she would advise them if there would be a meeting on that date and it
depended on the items that would be brought to them. It appeared that they would have a
quorum.
Committee Member Imboden stated he was fine being notified by email.
Ms. Pehoushek stated there were two meetings scheduled for December.
ADJOURNMENT:
Committee Member Fox made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design Review
Committee meeting on Wednesday, November 21, 2012.
SECOND: Craig Wheeler
AYES: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
ABSENT: None
MOTION CARRIED.
Meeting adjourned at 6:58 p.m.