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2012-08-15 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - FINAL August 15, 2012 Committee Members Present: Tim McCormack Craig Wheeler Joe Woollett Committee Members Absent: Carol Fox Robert Imboden Staff in Attendance: Anna Pehoushek, Principal Planner Doris Nguyen, Associate Planner Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary Administrative Session — 5:00 P.M. Chair Woollett opened the Administrative Session at 5:10 p.m. with a review of the Agenda. Principal Planner, Anna Pehoushek, stated there were no changes to the Agenda. The Committee Members reviewed the meeting minutes from the Design Review Committee meeting of August 1, 2012. Changes and corrections were noted. Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session. SECOND: Craig Wheeler AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden MOTION CARRIED. Administrative Session adjourned at 5:20 p.m. Regular Session - 5:30 P.M. ROLL CALL: Committee Members Fox and Imboden were absent. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the Agenda. There were no speakers. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 2 of 10 CONSENT ITEMS: (1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: August 1, 2012 Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve the minutes from the Design Review Committee meeting of August 1, 2012 with corrections and changes noted during the Administrative Session. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 3 of 10 AGENDA ITEMS: Continued Items None New Agenda Items (2) DRC No. 4646 -12 - THE PINT HOUSE RESTAURANT (at the Stadium Promenade) • A proposal to paint the exterior fagade, remove /replace molding, replace trim with stone, and add above ground planter boxes. There would be no change in the building square footage. • 1547 W. Katella Avenue (previous Auld Irisher) • Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714 - 744 -7223, do uyen ,cityoforan e.or • DRC Action: Final Determination Associate Planner, Doris Nguyen, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Dan Ventura, address on file, stated he was willing to completely disregard the use of planters. They were a restaurant and there was "pub" in their name, but they were passionate about their food. The only reason the planters were introduced was to provide shade, but mostly for aesthetics. That side of the property received a lot of sun exposure. Aside from the umbrellas, he was attempting to get more of the Lazy Dog -type of ambiance. There were other planters in the Promenade center and if the DRC approved, he would maintain the existing planters or the planters as proposed. Public Comment None. Chair Woollett opened the item to the Committee for discussion. Committee Member Wheeler provided a list to the applicant and the Committee Members of items he wished to discuss. He made reference to sheet No. 1, note 6, and asked what was meant by "touch -up the existing window frame ?" Mr. Ventura stated the intent was to maintain the wood frames and door frames as they currently were, but they were so dilapidated and under - maintained that he wanted to sand and re- varnish them. He wanted to touch -up those areas. Committee Member Wheeler stated if it was the "pub look" that the applicant was going for, the exterior of pubs was generally maintained very well. Referencing note 7, he pointed out a spelling error - "faux pas" window rather than "faux" window. The existing window on the south side was projected out and he understood that the projected form was to be removed and replaced with mirrored glass as there was a solid wall behind it. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 4 of 10 Mr. Ventura stated it would be glazed with glass of an appearance closer to the existing windows. Committee Member Wheeler stated the plane would be different from the other windows next to them. The other windows were set back into the wall and the new proposed window would have a slight difference in plane and in the glass. He suggested getting rid of all the faux elements on the wall plane. Mr. Ventura stated the window was being added for continuity, otherwise, there would be a choppy appearance with the side door and the clear view window. The appearance that was proposed would be a bit more harmonious to that side and appear as one whole unit. Currently the fagade that had the bottles painted on it projected out at a 10" to 12" differential and what he was proposing would be less than that. Committee Member Wheeler stated that one could argue that less of a difference would appear worse. Mr. Ventura stated there was division by a 30" column and even as different as it was currently, it was not horrific. As far as the plane issue, aesthetically it appeared okay to him. Committee Member Wheeler referenced note 8 and asked what color the ceiling would be painted? Mr. Ventura stated it was currently white and they proposed to repaint it white. The tongue and groove ceiling that was there was separating and they would replace as necessary, caulking and painting it white. Committee Member Wheeler referenced note 15 and asked if the tall green screen would be attached to the pavement? Mr. Ventura stated yes, with concrete bolts. Committee Member Wheeler asked how the planters would work? Instead of a long continuous planter as shown on the plans, perhaps it would be better to have separate pots between the vertical supports of the green screen so that the support wouldn't be going down through the pot. Mr. Ventura replied he would be amiable to that suggestion. He further commented that there was a trash service directly behind the north side of the building and they were trying to prevent headlights from shining on diners plus screen the trash area. Committee Member Wheeler stated with the different pots out there, there were some with saucers and those had not stained paving. He suggested saucers for the proposed planters. Committee Member McCormack stated what occurred with a saucer was that water sitting in the saucer inhibited root growth. The bottom third of the soil remained wet and shortened the City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 5 of 10 efficiency of the pot with the lower portion being unusable soil. He never used saucers at all. The better watering system was a self watering system, which really would not support a tree. What he liked to do with pots that were permanent is remove the bottom of the pot and cut the concrete beneath it to allow growth of the tree. If it was not a tree he would not do that. Pots were tough to manage. Drainage and the stained concrete were issues. He had some thoughts and some options. His first thought was to have the landscape area be a planter, as it was the second time the site had a similar use. The pots were so temporary; he suggested cutting the paving and to have the space be a worthy space. He had looked at the proposal a number of ways: to have trees that would not grow in pots and have the concrete stained; or to take the concrete out and plant the trees. It should be done right. If there was a change needed the trees could be removed and the area re- paved. What occurred in many similar situations was that even without staining from drainage there would still be staining from the pot, and the concrete would need to be removed anyway. He suggested removing the concrete and planting trees to have the area be worthy of its use. Committee Member Wheeler stated it appeared there were some grease receptors in the sidewalk and there may be lines that came out from the building. It might be a problem if trees were planted. Committee Member McCormack stated the landscape treatment was so temporary, it was not inviting. But if the area was planted with trees, people would find it to be a "cool place." Chair Woollett stated the area would be much more welcoming for people who wanted to be out there. Committee Member McCormack suggested planting a tree on the south side. Mr. Ventura stated there was a pretty wide gate there as it was the emergency access. He could place a tree in the south east corner. Committee Member McCormack suggested saw cutting the concrete and doing it right. If the person who was responsible for watering the trees in pots went on vacation then all of a sudden there would be a dead tree. Unless there was someone who really adopted the program it would not work and there would be stains on the concrete. Later the concrete would need to be removed because the next tenant wouldn't want the stains there. He suggested taking out the concrete, putting in good soil, and picking the right tree that would not cause a root problem; to create a space that was appealing. The green screen was available on rollers and a vine could grow in a small above -grade planter. The vines were so hardy and it was not as much of an issue as the trees in pots. In reviewing the site photographs, he stated that removing the concrete and planting the trees would not be an issue. Ms. Nguyen asked what the DRC would suggest if the property owner would not agree to cutting away the concrete; would they be okay with no trees and no plants? City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 6 of 10 Committee Member McCormack stated the cost of saw cutting and removing concrete would be the same cost as the pots. Anything above - ground in the summer needed to be watered everyday and there would be water there constantly. Mr. Ventura stated once they cut the concrete they could connect to the water source. Ms. Nguyen stated the other pots at the center were hand watered. Committee Member McCormack stated it was not wise to do that. If there was a big oak tree there and they were placing flowers out there he would have a different suggestion. Ms. Nguyen asked how wide would the planting area need to be? Committee Member McCormack stated no less than 3' wide. Ms. Nguyen asked if he could suggest a tree? Committee Member McCormack stated to not use a Ficus. Mr. Ventura asked if Camphor or Carrotwood be okay? Committee Member McCormack stated Camphor had a root issue and Carrotwood was very messy. He suggested Evergreen elms would provide an umbrella type shade and it was very amiable to being managed. Mr. Ventura stated the east side of that complex was very sterile compared to the rest of the center. Chair Woollett stated that something needed to be done as it does not appear very welcoming. Committee Member McCormack stated that wrapping trees around that site would make it very welcoming. The pots were an "I'm not very committed" statement. Ms. Nguyen asked if there was a suggestion for the vine? Committee Member McCormack suggested blood red Trumpet vines. It attracted Hummingbirds and there were no issues with that type of vine. It was an evergreen and grew fast. Committee Member Wheeler asked if there should be a suggestion for an alternative treatment in the event the property owner would not allow the concrete cutting? Committee Member McCormack stated that pots could be used instead, but it could provide a liability issue of water on the pavement. Ms. Nguyen stated the applicant was concerned about that as well. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 7 of 10 Committee Member McCormack stated that was a valid concern and it was not worth doing it; it would be worth the effort to saw cut the concrete. The issue was not that there would be intermittent water, but that there would be water there all the time. Committee Member Wheeler asked if the current light sconces on the building would be replaced? Mr. Ventura stated those would be removed. They had an illuminated sign that would be in the portico area and that would provide light in that area. Committee Member Wheeler asked if there would be some type of cap stone on the stone wainscot? Mr. Ventura stated yes, there would be a cap stone. Committee Member Wheeler stated that the Staff Report indicated that the gooseneck lights would be black, but the rendering showed red. Mr. Ventura stated those would be black. Committee Member Wheeler asked how the treatment would wrap around the building? For instance, would the pilasters along the north side be painted black? Mr. Ventura stated they were not; they were just going to stop at the corner. There was one that turned the corner and he would be happy to do that. But he felt it impeded the back of the Prime Cut restaurant and he was not certain they would be very happy with that. Committee Member Wheeler stated the thing that worried him was the cornice. The only really good solution was to paint it black all the way back to the pilaster. He would want to condition that. There was not a problem with the wainscot as the trash enclosure would stop that. Chair Woollett stated the south side of the building was pretty stark. He asked if there was any thought to adding an awning? Mr. Ventura stated he was not certain how that would work and how it would be fastened. The current architectural design of the building went with the rest of the buildings there. Prime Cut had square awnings and those were continuous on the south side of the building. Chair Woollett asked how the other Committee Members felt about that suggestion? Committee Member Wheeler noted the deterioration of the Auld Irisher and the sun exposure was why that side of the building appeared so faded. Mr. Ventura stated at his other location in Fullerton he painted every year and it provided a nice first point of reference for his customers. It was his commitment to the quality of the building. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 8 of 10 Committee Member McCormack stated he liked the difference between Prime Cut and the proposal. English storefront and Irish storefront on a cobblestone road; he liked the difference. Chair Woollett asked if they were ready for a motion? Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4646 -12, The Pint House Restaurant, subject to the findings and conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following additional conditions: Verbatim Text: • The black painted cornice treatment be carried along the entire north side of the building and to terminate at the stone pilaster at the Northwest corner of Prime Cut. • Add capstone to the stone wainscot treatment. • Remove concrete per the sketch shown and plant the trees in the soil as opposed to the pots, for the reason as to not have drainage on the sidewalk. Chair Woollett stated "let me rephrase that a bit; instead of putting planters on the east side with trees in those, to cut the concrete and create the planters at a minimum 3' x 3'. Committee Member McCormack stated take out the concrete between the brick pavers. Ms. Nguyen asked what if the property owner would not allow that? Committee Member Wheeler stated if that was the case to have the applicant submit an alternate plan for Staff approval. Committee Member McCormack stated the suggested tree to be a `Columbia' London Plane tree or an Evergreen Elm. Mr. Ventura asked if they wanted the east side as well as the south side for tree planting? Committee Member McCormack stated yes. Ms. Nguyen stated Committee Member McCormack wanted two trees on the east and one on the south side. Committee Member McCormack stated yes. The Elm was an evergreen tree and the London Plane tree was deciduous, with only two on the east side. They could plant three but two would be adequate. Ms. Nguyen asked if the green screen vine would be okay planted above ground? Committee Member McCormack stated that was correct. Ms. Nguyen stated all the conditions shall be on the plans prior to issue of a building permit. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 9 of 10 Committee Member McCormack stated also add automatic irrigation to the planting areas. Ms. Nguyen asked if it would be acceptable for the applicant to present a planter scenario if the concrete cutting was not permitted? Committee Member McCormack stated yes, and they would need to deal with drainage on the walkways. Mr. Ventura asked if he could propose no planters if the property owner would not allow the concrete to be cut? Ms. Nguyen stated that was the existing condition. Mr. Ventura stated there would be no change. Committee Member McCormack stated the reason he had proposed the condition was that if there were trees to be added to do it correctly; and trees in pots would not work. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for August 15, 2012 Page 10 of 10 ADJOURNMENT: Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design Review Committee meeting on Wednesday, September 5, 2012. SECOND: Craig Wheeler AYES: Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Carol Fox, Robert Imboden MOTION CARRIED. Meeting adjourned at 6:02 p.m.