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2010-11-17 DRC Final Minutes CITY OF ORANGE DESIGN REVIEW COMMITTEE MINUTES - FINAL November 17, 2010 Committee Members Present: Adrienne Gladson Tim McCormack Craig Wheeler Joe Woollett Committee Members Absent: Bill Cathcart Staff in Attendance: Leslie Aranda Roseberry, Planning Manager Dan Ryan, Historic Preservation Planner Doris Nguyen, Associate Planner Robert Garcia, Associate Planner Chad Ortlieb, Senior Planner Sandi Dimick, Recording Secretary Administrative Session — 5:00 P.M. Vice Chair Gladson opened the Administrative Session at 5:06 p.m. Planning Manger, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, stated there were no changes to the Agenda. There was a lack of quorum for Agenda Item No. 3, Yaghi, and the applicant had been contacted. The Committee Members reviewed the minutes from the regular Design Review Meeting of November 3, 2010. Changes and corrections were noted. Committee Member McCormack made a motion to adjourn the Administrative Session of the Design Review Committee Meeting. SECOND: Craig Wheeler AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. Administrative Session adjourned at 5:19 p.m. Regular Session - 5:30 P.M. ROLL CALL: Chair Cathcart was absent. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 2 of 21 PUBLIC PARTICIPATION: Opportunity for members of the public to address the Design Review Committee on matters not listed on the Agenda. There was none. CONSENT ITEMS: All matters that are announced as Consent Items are considered to be routine by the Design Review Committee and will be enacted by one motion. There will be no separate discussion of said items unless members of the Design Review Committee, staff, or the public request specific items to be removed from the Consent Items for separate action. (1) APPROVAL OF MINUTES: November 3, 2010 Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve the minutes from the regular Design Review Committee Meeting on November 3, 2010, with the changes and corrections noted during the Administrative Session. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 3 of 21 AGENDA ITEMS: Continued Items: (2) DRC No. 4445 -09 — HAVEN GASTROPUB RESTAURANT • A proposal to review external walk -in cooler, refrigerator, and screening. • 190 S. Glassell Street, Units C & D, Plaza Historic District • Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714 - 744 -7224, daan@cityoforange.org • Item Continued from October 6, 2010 DRC Meeting • DRC Action: Final Determination Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Susan Secoy, address on file, stated the proposed project was a challenge. Initially they had attempted to get the unit within the building and economically it was not feasible. In order to design the cooler she had taken the approach that it should not be brick; it should not be a part of the building as it was its own unique element and therefore had its own unique characteristics. It was metal and they were attempting to integrate it with the architecture as best as they possibly could. What was before them was an approach that she had come up with; she presented drawings for the Committee Members to review. She had gone back to the original integrity of the building, Frank Lloyd Wright, and the horizontal elements that he was so renowned for; and how could she integrate a cooler into a brick building? Her approach was to allow it to be a cooler, and go back to the Secretary of the Interior's Standards and ask if it was ever removed would it adversely affect the building? No, it would not. Was it incorporated into the building? Yes, she believed it was. They were working with the horizontal banding, which was one of the unique characteristics of the architecture of the Jensen building. They were using the color Dunn Edwards Ready Oak and they would paint the entire screen that color. She had struggled with what to do with the cooler door and her approach would be to use the same color scheme to just paint it so it went away. Functionally to have two elements, or two doors, would not work very well. Going back to Wright and how he would have handled a screening element and the precedent for a batten element was something that was similar to what had been done in the past and had been similar to the 1 3 /4" dimension to the brick that was used on the Jensen building. Ms. Secoy stated she had not wanted the fasteners to be exposed and she would work with Barkley Sheet Metal, who had fabricated all the sheet metal on the Jensen building, including the copper canopies, and she would work with them to create the batten element and to have the fasteners hidden. Public Comment Jeff Frankel, address on file, representing the OTPA, stated he agreed that the screening looked good and was appropriate for the building, but the OTPA agreed with Staff that the entire unit should be screened. The intent of the ordinance was to completely screen the unit, the same as an AC unit on a roof. He would not want a precedent set that other applicants might want to follow, such as partially screening mechanical. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 4 of 21 Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee Members for discussion. Committee Member Woollett stated he thought it was a good solution and he asked what would happen at the wall and where the pavement was not flat? Ms. Secoy stated there was an area of 5' that was flat and then it went down a ' / 4" from there. What she proposed to do was to place a fiberglass shim in the space to keep it level that would also assist with water proofing. Another option was a base isolator; they were working with Specialized Mechanical on a solution. Committee Member Woollett stated he had not felt that the outside edge had to rest on the pavement. In reviewing the details it appeared that the screen would be constructed in place. He was concerned that using foam would invite various kinds of beasts to get into the area; it would need to be caulked. He asked how large the opening would be at the West edge? Ms. Secoy stated it would be 3 /4 ". They were looking at an isolator or fiberglass shim to take up that space. Committee Member Woollett stated the unit would sit up tight against the wall. They were in an awkward situation where the City regulations wanted the design of Old Towne, or to emulate it, but they had not wanted any of the other characteristics of that time; which quite frankly had the rear of buildings looking quite awful. They wanted all the good stuff and none of the bad. He felt the solution being presented was a good solution and an honest solution. Ms. Secoy stated it was a big challenge and architecturally she had struggled with it. She believed it was something that was necessary for the continued success of the applicant's business and she had looked at several different options. They would do the best they could as the property owner had not wanted rust or rodents in the area. Security was also an issue and there would be a camera and lots of lighting. Committee Member McCormack stated that with the shim where it became so small, he felt that caulking would start and end at a point and he asked what other material could they use? Committee Member Wheeler asked if they could use dry pack? Ms. Secoy stated it was just a matter of in the future if the unit was moved it could leave a bigger scar. She was not opposed to it. Committee Member Wheeler stated in using it they might be able to raise the whole thing up an inch or so and create a water proofing seal. Ms. Secoy stated the entire area was under a canopy. She was not concerned with any rust or water invasion. The only water concern would be when the area was cleaned. Committee Member Wheeler stated he thought the proposal was a good solution and they would be applying camouflage to mostly the cooler itself. He asked if there was a free - standing screen wall as well? City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 5 of 21 Ms. Secoy stated yes, that was correct. They would use thin studs applied directly to the unit and then the sheet metal and batten. It was a different animal and they wanted to maintain consistency. Committee Member Wheeler stated he also agreed that with an additional door it would be a problem, especially on the walk -in side. He suggested using battens across the doors. Ms. Secoy stated they could do that. As long as the detail was very clean it would fit in. Committee Member Wheeler stated he was so pleased to have scale drawings and that it was not being presented by interpretive dance. Vice Chair Gladson stated she found the proposal to be a logical solution and a very much appreciated approach. They had thrown a lot at the applicant at the previous meeting and some alternatives to consider. She supported the project. She wanted to clarify the walk -in door or the screen door and what was proposed. Ms. Secoy pointed out the door on the plan and explained what Staff had suggested. Mr. Ryan stated instead of placing an entire second door they could affix sheet metal directly to the door panels. Vice Chair Gladson stated she had seen instances where in homes people wanted to blend in the refrigerator to look like another cabinet. Mr. Ryan stated it was the same principle. Vice Chair Gladson stated she appreciated the sensitivity of the project in the event it would need to be removed. She stated the restaurant had made it into Westways Magazine and that was nice. Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve DRC No. 4445 -09, Haven Gastropub Restaurant, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following additional conditions: 1. The doors to the cooler unit shall have the same batten treatment to match the material of the screen. SECOND: Craig Wheeler AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 6 of 21 (3) DRC No. 4475-10— CHUCK YAGHI— ACCESSORY 2" UNIT • A proposal for a new detached accessory second -unit and rehabilitation of an existing single - family residence. • 812 E. Washington Street, Old Towne Historic District • Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714- 744 -7224, dryan(a,cityoforan e.or • Item Continued from October 6, 2010 DRC Meeting • DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission Vice Chair Gladson stated with a lack of a quorum of Committee Members with the absence of Chair Cathcart and the recusal of Committee Members Wheeler and Woollett, the item would be continued to a future meeting. She understood the applicant had been notified. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 7 of 21 New Agenda Items: (4) DRC No. 4205 -07 — COPTIC ORTHODOX CHURCH • A proposal to revise the patio covers in the outdoor amphitheater area. • 491 N. Hewes Street • Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714 - 744 -7223, dnguyen(&,,cityoforan e.org • Previous DRC Considerations: March 18, 2009 & April 15, 2009 • DRC Action: Final Determination Associate Planner, Doris Nguyen, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, George Behnam, stated it was very simple and the other portion of the project had been previously approved by the DRC. They were proposing to add two round trellises and the rectangular trellis which he pointed to on the display. Public Comment None. Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee Members for discussion. Committee Member Wheeler stated his feelings for the level of quality for a Church to have exposed post caps and exposed post bases it had not felt quite right. It was not something he would personally do, but he had not wanted to state that they should not do it. He suggested a better solution such as a concealed connector, especially at the top. He had used the proposed method in more rustic applications, and the proposal before them had not appeared to be of that type. He suggested a higher quality connection. His other concern, which was contrary to what he had just stated, was that the connectors shown on the plans would not be sufficient. CBs would be used at the bottom and he thought they had already been cast in place. In looking at the Simpson catalog for CBs it stated: post bases do not provide adequate resistance to prevent members from rotating about the base and are not recommended for non -top supported installations such as fences or un- braced carports. Years ago in the City of Orange, possibly in the 1980's, some of the brick sidewalks had been redone around the Plaza. There had been some wood posts installed with parking signs on them that had used the same type of a CB or BV structure; all of them were knocked down within a few weeks. They had not worked for any kind of moment resistance, as in one direction they would be fairly good, but in the other direction it would create cross grain tension where the bolts were and they would become valueless. If the rigidity could not be obtained at the bottom he suggested that they use a system above to gain rigidity. He presented a system that he had used. He was reminded of traditional Japanese house construction, which he loved, and he had been reminded recently how Japanese homes acted in an Earthquake; they were designed with a secondary beam below which added to the number of moment connections and some intermediate verticals. As the Japanese houses were not connected to the ground and sat on stone pads they were designed to bounce like a chair. The project would need to go to the Building Division and they had assured him that a lateral analysis would need to be provided. The project could be continued with an alternative to City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 8 of 21 come back to the DRC, or they could continue to move the project forward with a proviso that if there were substantial changes that had to be made to the'design that the proposed project would need to return to the DRC: Committee Member Woollett stated he completely agreed with Committee Member Wheeler. There was also a quality issue as related to the other buildings. Committee Member McCormack stated it first struck him as such a large feature. A 6" x 12" beam seemed a long span for 21'; his concerns were structural. It looked big but the pieces were small. Scale -wise it looked like a bunch of sticks and appeared more residential. He felt that some of the lumber sizes would need to be beefed up. His comments were for the center structure as the other structures appeared fine to him. Committee Member Wheeler suggested using a more rigid form at the top. Mr. Behnam stated regarding the architectural components they had deliberately tried to use the lightest and skinniest possible members in order to not obscure the main structure, the church. Colors could add more, such as dark brown that would give it an affect of a larger size and maybe the light color shown was not what they wanted to see. As for the structural portion, and he spoke on behalf of their structural engineer who had already made contact with plan check personnel of the City, he had stated that the brackets would act like knee braces and they were attempting to minimize the lower affect of it. Although it was as light as it could be and somewhat residential, they would use machine bolts to give it more rigidity. They had shared that with the structural engineer; he had shared another point that all the column bases were reversed in other areas and would get the resistance from each other. Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve DRC No. 4205 -07, Coptic Orthodox Church, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following additional condition: 1. If there are substantial changes made to the appearance of the proposed project during the plan check process by the Building Division, the project shall return to the DRC, which includes additional members added, a different bracing system, or any substantial changes to the size of the members of an increase of 2" or more. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 9 of 21 (5) DRC No. 4448 -09 — CHAPMAN UNIVERSITY LAW CLINICS • A proposal to renovate the interior and exterior of the existing building, surface parking lot, and landscaping to accommodate free legal clinics for the community. • 544 N. Cypress Street • Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714- 744 -7223, dnguyen(a)cityoforange.org • DRC Action: Recommendation to the Planning Commission Committee Member Woollett stated despite the pleasure they received from reviewing Chapman University projects, the proposed project was exceptionally well done and he would be willing to approve it without discussion. Committee Member Wheeler stated he had a few comments and if no one objected he would waive the Staff Report presentation. Committee Member McCormack stated he had a few questions regarding the landscaping. Vice Chair Gladson gave the applicant an opportunity to provide a brief presentation. Applicant, Ken Ryan, address on file, thanked Staff and they agreed with the Staff Report and all the conditions of approval. They had been working for over a year on the project and prior to that with a few starts and stops. They had been through three SRC reviews. Referring to the drawing of the project, he stated with the shape of the buildings, the vacancies, and the most recent use by Villa Park Orchards, the approach in its very simplest form was to remodel and resemble the treatments that had existed there. The project was also about reconnecting to the community. They had spent a lot of time with the OTPA and with the Orange Barrio Historic Society. There were two members present who were most excited about the use; to have the Law Clinics that respond to military issues and family violence that would provide for free services to those in the community who could not afford it. They spent a lot of time with Leo and Phillip, Orange Barrio Historic Society, in honoring the memory of the school's past. There was a conference area that would be used by the community, there was a plaque that would be on the front of the building, and they were preserving the principal's benches -in "memory" of those students who had to wait outside the principal's office. Public Comment Leo Castro, address on file, stated the project that was proposed by Chapman University was something that the community had looked forward to for many years; the preservation of that particular building. It was a historic link to the community and of Cypress Street, which had for many years been a neglected area and no one had paid attention to what that building had stood for. Three or four years ago he had made a presentation to the City Council and many of those members had not known where the school was and what it had stood for. Now that Chapman University had become the property owners, they had presented a program that would preserve and restore the building which would be a tremendous milestone for the community in honoring the students who had attended the school since 1931. There were no bad feelings for the people who had attended the school, and they were grateful that Chapman University had taken that City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 10 of 21 issue in restoring the history that was important to the community. On behalf of the Orange Barrio Historic Society, if the project was approved, they would be more than appreciative and offer Chapman University a tremendous thank you. Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee Members for discussion. Committee Member Wheeler stated the floor plan sheet A2.1 had a note "see sheet A.1 for all the doors and windows ", but he could not locate that. He would want to add to the conditions the material types. Applicant, Troy Aday, address on file, stated they would be removing the aluminum slider and currently there was a wood plaster mold around the frame of the windows which would be kept and they would install steel dual pane windows. Committee Member Wheeler asked if they would be true divided light windows? Mr. Aday stated yes. Committee Member Woollett asked if they would be hot rolled sections? Committee Member Wheeler stated the Staff Report had mentioned not agreeing with the rail design; he personally thought it worked very well. He liked the treatment of the ends, and he corrected the use, it should read "lambs tongue ". He suggested they use the same treatment on the exit stoop on the north end. On the colored illustrations there was some disagreement between the drawings and he assumed the exterior elevations were the correct color scheme. It struck him that there was a lot of contrast between the colors and he suggested something a bit more subtle. If they were to pop that color they should be consistent on the front elevation. It was just a suggestion. Mr. Aday stated they could come up with a color scheme that had less of a contrast. Committee Member Wheeler stated the addition was probably added when Villa Park Orchards had taken the property over; what if those were a slightly different color to signify what had been original and what had not been. It was something to think about. Mr. Aday stated the addition was concrete. Committee Member Wheeler suggested the use of a sculpture in the front landscape that would be suggestive of the school playground equipment. Committee Member McCormack stated it was a great project and his comments would be some suggestions. To reduce clutter he had an issue with the wheel stops that would become trash catchers. He suggested pulling out the curb to the position of where the wheel stop was; there could be an issue with the handicap zones and that might need a different approach. On the grade it was at .5% which was one -half of 1% of grade along the sidewalk and on the front going towards that it was 7.8% and then the highlighted numbers on the civil plan were how the panel was created in front; he applauded the use of the vegetative swales, but in starting where it was shown and it went down 2% , and the sidewalk went down one -half percent - as it went down it City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 11 of 21 created a weird detail and he understood that they were tied to the 2% in the swale; he suggested that they take a look at that to see if there was another approach. Applicant, Roy Kato, address on file, stated they could hold the 2% off the walkways so that it would be a constant 2% even if the walkway sloped and the bioswale could occur in the gravel area. Committee Member McCormack stated that was a good solution but it would be difficult to get the water over the aluminum edging. It was a dilemma and he wanted to have them review it to ensure it worked. He asked if the pea gravel changed color? Mr. Kato stated no. Committee Member McCormack asked if the pea gravel was used as mulch? Mr. Kato stated they used it as non - vegetative mulch. Now that they were using the new State of California water conservation ordinance and the guidelines which were stricter, once they used a lawn area it had to be balanced. He had wanted to get lawn in other areas; however, he would not have been able to meet the guidelines and therefore used the pea gravel. The use of pea gravel gave him a zero precipitation requirement which helped him in the water conservation that allowed him to meet the State ordinance. Committee Member McCormack stated on the root barrier he suggested to take the portion of barrier that was on the linear side out so the roots had a chance to go along the planting area so the growth rate would match. Take out the crossings, the root barriers that were perpendicular to the curb; he pointed out the areas on the plans. Ms. Nguyen asked for clarification on his suggestion. Committee Member McCormack stated to take away the ends of the root barriers. Vice Chair Gladson stated the photo was wonderful and the building as it stood now had tower elements. Applicant, Kris Olsen, address on file, stated when Villa Park Orchards turned the building into their head offices there was no HVAC and the tower was enlarged to accommodate the HVAC units. Vice Chair Gladson stated the existing fencing would come down and there was some barbed wire and chain link and she asked if there was any new fencing being installed? Mr. Olsen stated there was some wrought iron fencing going in. Vice Chair Gladson stated she commended the folks at Chapman for the project and it was exceptional to restore the building. Her only other thought was that the project spoke to outlying buildings that were not in the Historic District that were worthy of recognition; Chapman was stepping up to the plate and it was worth pursuing a historic designation and the neighborhood deserved that consideration. She understood there were policies in place to encourage that in City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 12 of 21 Orange and she strongly suggested they consider that. The only other thing she was looking for, and she knew there was a plaque, and she wondered if it should be added as a condition to ensure the plaque was provided. Mr. Olsen stated it was included in the Staff Report. Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to recommend approval to the Planning Commission for DRC No. 4448 -09, Chapman University Law Clinics, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report and with the following additional conditions: 1. The railings on the north stoop shall have the same "lamb's tongue" treatment. 2. The windows shall be steel true divided light with hot rolled sections. 3. A plaque shall be included. And with the following recommendations: 1. Review the swale to mitigate any holes and to make it even. 2. Trim back the tree barriers to the south of the project. SECOND: Joe Woollett AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 13 of 21 (6) DRC No. 4495-10— CHAPMAN PLAZA • A proposal to repaint two of the freestanding buildings and to review the trees that were already replaced in the parking lot. The proposal also includes changing out the hedges and two existing trees in the front (south) setback. • 4501 -4637 E. Chapman Avenue • Staff Contact: Doris Nguyen, 714 - 744 -7223, dngu�(a),cityoforange.orZ • DRC Action: Final Determination Vice Chair Gladson waived the reading of the Staff Report and asked the applicant if they had anything to add? Applicant, Juliet Marapao, stated on the Chapman Plaza landscape plan they had recently placed 11 trees in the parking lot and that they had been recommended to them by several landscaping companies that had root structures that should not cause tripping hazards. They had removed trees due to parking lot damage. Public Comment None. Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee Members for discussion. Committee Member Wheeler asked for some clarification information on the Code Enforcement case. Ms. Nguyen stated what had occurred was that all the trees had been cut down and the City had been notified when the trees were being cut down. Howard Morris, Community Services, (now retired) went out to the site with the Code Enforcement Officer; they were told that the trees would be replaced, as the Ficus trees had buckled the asphalt and they had tripping complaints. The applicant had been notified that they needed to go before the DRC; however, the trees had been replaced with Tipuana trees. Committee Member Wheeler stated some of the new trees looked very sad and the trees were leaning. Committee Member McCormack stated he would want to know a bit more about how the Ficus trees were removed. The problem was with putting trees in a parking lot in an area that was compacted; when trees were cut down it was an issue with replacing new trees over dead and decaying roots of the removed trees. It could lead to Armillaria root rot, which occurred when a root system was not removed and it created a fungus. Any tree that could not survive that would die as well. He had not done his due diligence to research if the Tipuana tree was resistant to the root rot and there was a published list of trees and plant materials that were resistant. Ms. Nguyen stated the tree choice had been recommended by the applicant's landscaper. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 14 of 21 Committee Member McCormack stated it would be an issue as the rot occurred over time. If all the roots from the previous trees had been removed it would not be an issue; with the amount of trees at the site it could be a compounded issue. The Ficus tree was not a good choice either. Vice Chair Gladson asked was it likely that the new trees planted would not survive? Committee Member McCormack stated yes, that was a concern. He recommended going to the published list of trees that were resistant to the root rot; it was a very limited list and to use a type of tree that was on the list. Committee Member Woollett asked if that was something that could be left up to Staff. Committee Member McCormack stated they should choose a tree that was not too small as trees in a parking lot were for shade. He asked if there was an irrigation system? Ms. Marapao stated there was an irrigation system. Committee Member McCormack stated he would surmise that the irrigation system had been tangled up with the roots of the Ficus trees. He stated if there was not an adequate deep water irrigation system the trees would have roots that would rise to the surface. Committee Member Woollett asked how could they confirm that the conditions had been met? Committee Member McCormack stated the Ficus tree had a large root system and if you dug 12" and hit a root they would have knowledge that the roots still existed. Committee Member Woollett asked how would they check the irrigation system? Committee Member McCormack stated they could go to the irrigation controls and check the system. The challenge of planting trees in a parking lot was that the base was basically concrete. He would hate to see the trees not survive because of management items that were not taken care of; if they had taken care of those things they would survive. Vice Chair Gladson asked what would make the trees lean as Committee Member Wheeler had observed? Committee Member McCormack stated it depended on the box size of the trees. Ms. Nguyen stated the trees were 24" box. Vice Chair Gladson stated the item before them was the fulfillment of the Code Enforcement issue. Committee Member Woollett stated it might be better to continue the item to allow the applicant to ensure that the right tree had been chosen and the other issues had been addressed. Ms. Nguyen asked if there were any issues with the building color or the hedge out front? City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 15 of 21 The Committee Members concurred there were no issues with the color or hedge. Committee Member Woollett made a motion to continue DRC No. 4495 -10, Chapman Plaza, to allow the applicant to verify that (1) the Ficus trees had been removed properly, (2) there was an adequate irrigation system, and (3) the new trees were root rot resistant. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 16 of 21 (7) DRC No. 4516 -10 — INTEGRATED SYSTEMS • A proposal to install a new wall sign for a second -story tenant in the Plaza. • 34 Plaza Square, Plaza Historic District • Staff Contact: Daniel Ryan, 714- 744 -7224, dryan(a),,cityoforange.org • DRC Action: Final Determination Committee Member Wheeler stated he would be recused from the item's presentation due to the location of his office. Historic Preservation Planner, Dan Ryan, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Planning Manager, Leslie Aranda Roseberry, asked if the applicant had been given a copy of the approved logo letter styles from the Standards? Mr. Ryan stated yes, those were just examples and they were looking for compatibility. The sign colors and placement of the sign were fine. Applicant, David Ballasch, address on file, stated the font that they were proposing was the font from their logo, although the letter "G" appeared to be the only letter that was causing concern. To replace only the letter "G ", they would need to change the entire font, which would change the logo that would change their identity. It was not that the logo was stretched, it was from their actual business card. Public Comment None. Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee Members for discussion. Committee Member Woollett stated he appreciated Mr. Ryan's comments, however, he thought there was an issue regarding the logo and would they allow a standard logo in Old Towne? Mr. Ryan stated logos were part of signage and were allowable. Committee Member Woollett stated a logo would be allowed which certainly the little form on the right hand side of the sign was a logo and he was not as concerned with the letter "G" as he would be with the colors and the sign should be a matte finish. He had no other issues and he would go along with the font as presented. Committee Member McCormack stated the font was a part of their logo and he had no issue with the proposed sign. Mr. Ryan stated often times some registered logos included the company name and a design element and they were considered as one; many of the national brands had their name and color City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 17 of 21 and all of it was considered a part of their recognized logo. There were cases where a sign had a design element that was separate as a registered trademark. Applicant, Troy Bakken, address on file, stated all their printed material and all their marketing materials were printed exactly as it appeared in their proposed sign and they considered the letters and design elements as their brand or logo and they would not split the words from the wheel element. Applicant, Howard Roberts, address on file, stated he agreed; the only time they had used the design element alone was as a cursor on an application, it was not used without the lettering. It was used as one piece. Vice Chair Gladson stated her inclination was to ensure the sign was in compliance with the sign fonts that were required for the Old Towne District. In reviewing the applicant's business card the logo presented appeared to be stretched a little bit and was that something that was bothersome? Not really, she thought it was a neat design, but in the Historic District it appeared a bit more modern. It needed to be as tight as they could get it to the Standards. She was only one of three Committee Members. She concurred with the use of a matte finish. She could support it, but she had a bit of a hang up with the lettering. Committee Member Woollett suggested not changing the font at all but simply spacing the letters more closely together by about 10 %. That was very little but it would make a difference and would appear closer to their business card; to bring the spacing in between the letters. Mr. Ballasch stated it appeared that way as it was on a larger scale. Committee Member Woollett stated his critical architect's eye was telling him that if the letters were pulled in just a little bit they would succeed in a closer match to their logo. Mr. Roberts stated he agreed there was a bit more space between the "T" and the "N ". Mr. Ryan stated the lighter colors made the white space more visible. The Committee Members discussed the suggestions with the applicants and reviewed the proposed sign. Vice Chair Gladson stated she was hearing that pulling the letters in would get them where they needed to be. Mr. Ryan stated if the shade was a tad bit lighter it would read better. Committee Member Woollett made a motion to approve DRC No. 4516 -10, Integrated Systems, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report, and with the following additional condition: 1. Font style to be accepted as presented with the letters to be spaced closer together. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 18 of 21 SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart RECUSED: Craig Wheeler MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 19 of 21 (8) DRC No. 4517 -10 — SHAKEY'S FAQADE REMODEL • A proposal to make some minor changes to the exterior of the building to accommodate the Shakey's image. • 1625 W. Katella Avenue * Staff Contact: Chad Ortlieb, 714- 744 -7237, cortlieb(o )cityoforange.org • DRC Action: Final Determination Senior Planner, Chad Ortlieb, presented a project overview consistent with the Staff Report. Applicant, Robert Martinez, address on file, stated he was the architect on the project. They had been working on the location with Robert Atkinson for quite some time; working with his team as well as with Mr. Ortlieb and they had come up with a very good solution to their project. He thanked Mr. Ortlieb and he was available to answer any questions. Public Comment None. Vice Chair Gladson opened the item to the Committee Members for discussion. Committee Member Wheeler stated the colors on the drawings and the colors listed had not appeared to agree. The exterior stucco was listed as "autumn wheat ", but on P1, it was listed differently and they should clarify that. Mr. Martinez stated that was part of the Conditions of Approval to correct the one that was on the plan; the correct color was "autumn wheat ". Committee Member Wheeler stated he could not find the color P8 for the patio on the drawings. The patio railing appeared to be the same color as the rest of the wood. Mr. Martinez stated he was correct and that would be corrected to P6. A lot of the colors changed from printer to printer. They had matched the colors to the color chips. Committee Member Wheeler stated there was quite a bit of contrast between the stucco body color and the cap and he wondered if that was not emphasizing it too much as it was a bit of a rough flashing. It might be better to down play that a bit; it was something for them to consider. Applicant, Gary Kanter, address on file, stated if there was not some distinction it would not appear right. Committee Member Wheeler stated with any future submission to place colored numbers on the drawings. Mr. Kanter stated they had other interests in other sites in the City. The City of Orange had a lot of good real estate and they would be back. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 20 of 21 Committee Member Wheeler stated he was pleased to see the location going in and thanked them for the menu. Mr. Kanter stated they were very excited to have Shakey's going in at that location. They were in an economic time when you would want to take your family out, spend $40.00 to $50.00 to have a great time. Committee Members Woollett and McCormack stated they had nothing additional to add. Vice Chair Gladson stated it was a lot of square footage for a Shakey's. Mr. Kanter stated the new prototype grew a bit and it was the latest generation Shakey's. It was larger than the Shakey's they grew up with. Because the price point was lower they had to pump out more food, Shakey's was the worlds most exciting family environment limited line buffet. It was a very shallow buffet which drove the food costs down. Vice Chair Gladson stated she was totally supportive of Staff reviewing the details of the signs and the sign program was quite clear. Mr. Kanter stated they would conform to that for their signage. Vice Chair Gladson stated Staff had asked for some input on whether projects of this nature could be more administerial; and would that include colors or just the signage? Mr. Ortlieb stated Staff was looking for where the dotted line was with what the DRC would like to review vs. what Staff had been bringing before them. If the Committee felt the project was right in line and appropriate with what they wanted to see, Staff would continue to bring these projects before them. If they felt certain projects should be a Staff consideration, he would take that advice. Committee Member Wheeler stated he was pleased to review the types of projects such as the one before them. Committee Member Wheeler made a motion to approve DRC No. 4517 -10, Shakey's Fagade Remodel, subject to the conditions contained in the Staff Report, noting the approval had not included sign approval; and all signage shall comply with all the requirements of the sign program. SECOND: Joe Woollett AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. City of Orange — Design Review Committee Meeting Minutes for November 17, 2010 Page 21 of 21 ADJOURNMENT: Committee Member Woollett made a motion to adjourn to the next regular scheduled Design Review Committee Meeting on Wednesday, December 1, 2010. SECOND: Tim McCormack AYES: Adrienne Gladson, Tim McCormack, Craig Wheeler, Joe Woollett NOES: None ABSTAIN: None ABSENT: Bill Cathcart MOTION CARRIED. Meeting adjourned at 7:22 p.m.