10-15-2010 - Minutes TC® CITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: October 13, 2010
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, L. Dick, N. Lall, M. Lebeau
Absent -Commissioners: W. King
Present - Staff: A. Farahani, W. Winthers, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
• May 12, 2010
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION:
N. Lall
SECOND:
J. Beil
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
• June 9, 2010
Quorum unavailable.
• August 10, 2010
Quorum unavailable.
• September 15, 2010
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION:
N. Lall
SECOND:
J. Beil
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
City of
rang
Public Works Department
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II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this meeting.
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the implementation of a Neighborhood Permit Parking Program on
the 500 block of N. Glassell St.
Abdenago Sanchez
500 blk. N. Glassell St.
Orange, Ca. 92866
Oral presentation is based on the written report, please refer to your copy. Chairman
Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Michael Tuva- Burch, 587 N. Glassell St . — Speaking in favor of the permit parking. I
live in the back part of this duplex. I have limited parking in my driveway and
with the extension of permit parking on Rose Ave. I am no longer able to park
there. Traffic Enforcement denied me a parking permit because I'm one house
over. The problem with Glassell St. is I work an early morning job and I get
home at 1 p.m. and there is no place to park on Glassell in front of my house. I
usually have to go up to the 600 block of N. Glassell or over to the west side of
Rose Ave. in order to park. I have a teenage daughter and my wife also drive
and we have to wait until late in the evening until most of the employees of the
Lighthouse School seem to park on the east side of Glassell St. and leave and
other businesses also, to move our cars again for overnight parking closer to the
house. I would like to have the parking permits approved.
Abdenago Sanchez, 585 N. Glassell St. — [Through an interpreter. Speaking in favor
of permit parking.] The reason why we are here is because we have a situation
with our parking whenever they move their vehicles out in the morning and
when they come back someone immediately takes their parking so there is no
parking when they come back. The vehicles that are taking their parking aren't
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rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 7445536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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there 1 -2 hours they are there 6 -8 hours and it's an everyday thing. Most of the
parking is gone for long periods of time, he sees people coming but doesn't know
if they are students or not, but sometimes they even park overnight. In the
morning the vehicles aren't there any more, he doesn't know what time they
leave, but it's a problem. Sometimes he parks on Rose close to the park;
sometimes when he sees a vacant spot he goes and gets his vehicle and when he
comes back it's already gone. It's very difficult and he's asking for help if
possible.
Pamela Moore, 528 N. Glassell St. — Speaking opposed to permit parking. If you look
at this to get an accurate depiction from the corner of Walnut Ave. we have red
curb at 504, 512, 520, 528, 536 and into 544. If you look at the Municipal Code
that was intended to address, this is called the Program to Mitigate, it's a
neighborhood permit parking program the intention in the OMC Section
10.30.040 is to "mitigate the intrusion of college oriented and other long -term
vehicular parking." What we have just heard are people parking there overnight
is students not wanting to pay for the permits. My office is a law office, we are
not students, and this is not oriented toward us. I purchased my building in
1999; this is not a residential area. When you read the code this is intended for a
residential area, this is a commercial mixed -used area. This code was not
intended. I also looked at the zoning requirements and 528 N. Glassell St. you
are correct, we can put 7 cars in the back and we do, but you have other
attorneys and clients coming to the office and you have to have other parking
available. The parking in front of our building has red curb, I stressed this last
month. It's very important for you to realize how much of Glassell St. has red
curb. Also I'm surprised about the statements being made that there is parking
on the other side by the coffee shop, there is very little, there is red curb there, its
red curb by the school and we have permit parking on the street behind us. Rose
Ave. has a lot of permit parking; there is very little parking available in the area.
The point keeps getting made that the businesses have off - street parking, so do
the residents. The residents have driveways, garages and they can access them
for parking much better than I can. I have different fire requirements and I have
employees coming and going for lunch. If I'm a resident living there I may have
one or two or three spaces but I can park in my driveway, back out and have
somebody else park there. Please don't forget the residents have off - street
parking the same as the commercial properties. The owner of the Pilates studio
is here and I've talked to the school, and they are using their onsite parking for
their buses and other vehicles. I think they are complying with their
requirements and I don't think you can call this a privilege when we owners are
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rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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commercial versus not sleeping there. I would encourage you to make a decision
not to approve permit parking. There was some concern about a disabled
person, if you have a disabled permit you can park anywhere so they would not
have a problem if it were permit parking or not they should be able to park
anywhere. I would suggest you work with the University, the problem is the
students, I don't think there is any problem with the number of people who are
parking for my office. I know the students don't want to pay, if you could work
with them and have it as part of their admissions packet, as part of their
registration fee. They are only parking on Glassell St. because they don't want to
pay for parking permits but if they put it in the registration packet then
everybody pays it and it wouldn't be an issue. They spent 18 months hauling
dirt out for that parking facility and now the kids don't want to pay for it.
Tames Crawford, 528 N. Glassell St. - Speaking in opposition to permit parking. I
co -own the building with Ms. Moore and I had also talked earlier today with the
owner of Chapman Coffee House and one of things she pointed out was not only
does she have customers who may be there for 1 -2 hours but she also has
vendors and suppliers and she has 5 parking spaces behind the coffee house and
she usually has 3 employees there at a time, and maybe she shares 4 spaces with
adjoining homeowner, other than that she is indicating her observation and we
have noticed it too, the parking problems are the students. My clients visit me
30-45 minutes and while they are there other service providers such as a bail
bondsman may stop by office to get information on a client or a private
investigator may come in for 30 -60 minutes to review a case. These people are
not there at night, they there no more than an hour at a time. About a year ago
when you red curbed our entire street we used to have plentiful parking but now
that the left -turn was put in for Chapman University there's barely any parking
and that's when the tension over the parking basically arose, it came from that
red curb. In the memo that we got when they installed it we were assured that
this was only going to be on a temporary basis and that the parking was going to
be returned to us after the building and the construction at Chapman was
finished. To date we might not ever get this parking returned to us. We do have
parking needs and I think it would be an undue hardship if my investigator has
to run in to give me a report and he's parking there 15 minutes and he gets a
citation because he doesn't have a permit. If the residents are going to be given
permits maybe the owners of the businesses should also be given some type of
permit that we can give to our clients so they don't have difficulty as well.
) City of Tape #CTC -30.08 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 7445536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Public Works Department
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Lisa Borja, 536 N. Glassell St. — Speaking in opposition to permit parking. I'm a
resident at this address and I also have a home business where I teach pilates.
For the most part my classes are one -on -one clients, and I have access to my
driveway where my clients usually park. My lessons are about 55 minutes long
and I have it that way so my client can pull out and the other client can come in.
Usually that doesn't happen because usually my clients are working people who
change after their class, leaving the incoming client waiting in the driveway or to
park on the street. If the parking permit program is implemented that would
mean the outgoing client would have to park, come and get a permit, go out
again and this would cause their lesson to run late, which would cause my
schedule to run late leading to unhappy clients. I just have a small based
business but I rely a lot on my clients being satisfied and happy to keep me in
business.
Tuva Tuua -Burch - 587 N. Glassell St . — Speaking in favor of the permit parking. I
was here a couple of months ago because we used to be able to park on Rose
Ave. because our home is on the corner of Rose and Glassell (1 house away from
the corner) but since the permit parking program was implemented on Rose we
couldn't park there anymore. So now there is no parking for us on Glassell St.
and that was the whole reason why most of us signed that petition. We have
families who drive and there's not enough parking onsite for all of us, we work
at night sometimes and we don't always have the same schedule and it's a
hardship for us to have to look for parking. If you're not going to approve the
parking permits for Glassell St. I suggest you remove it from Rose Ave. We
didn't have parking permits for that until about 4 months ago and all of a sudden
we find out we're required to have parking permit in that area. I suggest for
businesses maybe you could give them guest permits for their clients.
Chairman Beil returned the item to the Commission for final discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — I did hear a few things mentioned, some discussion of the
municipal code as far as parking requirements for businesses, students, I don't
think we can put a scarlet letter on a student, they are the public who come into
the city just like everybody else and park, and it's a public street. I heard some
discussion of the pilates center, a home business, and it gets into some planning
and zoning issues. I don't know how many lots or if the whole street is zoned for
mixed -use and what that means for somebody having a residence and home
business, and what those parking requirements are, I could not answer those,
those seem to me to be fairly complex.
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rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Commissioner Dick — Question on the pilates studio, when you got your
business license they require you to have a certain number of parking spaces?
Lisa Borja, 536 N. Glassell St. — Yes, they were fine as long as I had one available.
Commissioner Dick — I wish there were easier answers. If we were to have a
discussion here and I understand for the people who work off hours that you
recognize that you are hard to work with from time to time as far as making
rules for everyone. Would it serve any purpose to have a 2 -Hour limit between
the hours of x to x? This would perhaps eliminate the students from being able
to park there during the daytime hours yet would still allow the residents to
employ the street parking in the evening. I don't know if that would provide a
workable meeting of the minds half -way, but when you have to start paying for
these permits, and you only get so many, and if you have your family coming to
visit you have to get them to your family in time, if you have service technician
coming to adjust something it's not necessarily as smooth flowing as you would
like to think it is by going to permits.
Vice Chairman Lall — I think the parking permit program could be too restrictive
but there is a huge problem. I see the need for the businesses, they need for their
people to be able to come and go and I certainly feel for the residents, it's a
nightmare and I think if we could have the restricted hours 1 or 2 hour parking
between x and x time of day so the residents can park there at night. It's not
going to fit for everybody but we can do our best to help the most people.
Chairman Beil — If there was a proposal brought forward to do a time limit
parking that is somewhat reasonable, somewhat similar to what is closer to the
downtown Plaza area in some of the mixed -use area, what do you think that look
like as far as time parking and could that be done during certain hours of the day
only?
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Traffic Engineer — I think for this to be meaningful for the
residents you are probably looking at a one -hour parking limit. We are out of
the Old Towne business area which ends at Walnut Ave. I think if we're dealing
with mostly college students that are using this parking all day, most classes are
around an hour, and so if you have anything more than those students will be
able to camp out there for an extended period of time. Based on what we have
seen throughout parking studies however, I'd like to point out that throughout
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3rang Please contact th e Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in thus regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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the business day both sides of the streets the available parking that is there is
used and it's used all day so with all due respect to the business owners who are
here tonight I'm having trouble finding places for their clients to park during the
business day now as it is because the street is packed. For example I think today
was street sweeping day in the area and I went out this morning in the area
about 9:00 a.m. and the street was fairly empty, I came back around 11:00 a.m.
when the ban was over and the street was already parked pretty solid.
Chairman Beil — I suspect it is students, if not the ones attending class ones that
live close by or in the dorms a few blocks away that are parking, I don't know
what Chapman charges for their on- campus parking now but I know at places
like UCLA its $1,000 per quarter so students don't want to pay that, they will
walk a while before they pay that much for parking per quarter.
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Traffic Engineer — Time limit parking is only in effect
during business hours so it begins I believe at 8 am and is up at 6 pm.
Commissioner Lebeau — I think time limit parking would be a better fit for this
area than residential parking permits.
Commissioner Dick — If I were to move to deny the parking permit what process
would we have to enter to get the least onerous description of timed parking?
How would we implement that to try to answer some of the issues at hand? It
may not prove to be effective but I feel that we owe the citizens that came down
here today a response.
Chairman Beil — I suspect we would have to take action on the recommendation
before us and then have staff talk with the proponent and some of the business
owners to lay out what might possibly be done and that would have to come
back to us for approval.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Are we talking for time limit parking on
both sides of the street or could we implement this on the east side and leave the
west side open?
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Commissioner Dick - We're talking about 19 parking spaces on both sides of the
street total, and if you're talking about the classes hopefully there would be some
turnover there to give somebody a chance to park here. As anxious as I am to be
responsive to the people who have come here for an answer to their problem for
a second time would be inappropriate to try this for a year. I hate to do that but
if we need to have a study and a chance to visit the proponents then we can put
it off another month and make this as onerous and time consuming as possible.
Chairman Beil - Can we make a substitute motion to propose something
different or would that have to go back to staff for additional study and then be
represented at a future meeting?
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney - I believe that since the item is already for
parking along the block you may make a substitute motion to replace it with
some other type of parking restriction other than the neighborhood parking
permit program, if that is your wish.
Commissioner Dick - Then I will make the motion to deny the parking permits
and do what he said.
Chairman Beil - What have we been doing around the business district, is it 1-
Hour parking?
Dave Allenbach, Asst. Traffic Engineer - Between Walnut and Maple we have a
variety of time limits, anywhere from 30 Minutes up to an hour. I believe
through the Plaza itself it's 2 Hours. I would say a 1 Hour parking restriction
would probably serve the area best. That may be the easiest to enforce, provide a
maximum amount of turnaround for the people that are parking in the area so
those business would have parking for their clients on the street. Depending on
what time of day you get home you may find an open spot in proximity to your
home say around 4-5 pm, and then you're there an hour before the time limit
ends.
Chairman Beil - We don't have any way of allowing a residential parking permit
to stay more than an hour in a 1 -Hour parking zone.
Chairman Dick - I would like to suggest than a 1 -Hour limit be imposed on both
sides of the street to incorporate the 19 spaces that we indicated.
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ACTION: Denied the implementation of a Neighborhood Parking Permit
program on the 500 block of N. Glassell St. Approved the
implementation of one (1) Hour time limit parking during
business hours, Monday thru Friday, on both sides of the 500
block of N. Glassell St.
MOTION:
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
L. Dick
M. Lebeau
Unanimous
None
None
Chairman Beil - There are some residents who I know signed the petition for the
parking permit area and be aware you have the opportunity to appeal this before
the City Council for discussion.
End of Consideration Itemsk
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
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VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic
Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - November 10, 2010
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
then @citvoforanee.or
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
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rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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