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05-11-2011 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: May 11, 2011 I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, W. King, N. Lall, M. Lebeau Absent - Commissioners: None Present - Staff: A. Farahani, W. Winthers, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, P. Then C. Approval of Minutes • April 13, 2011 ACTION: Approved as published. MOTION: M. Lebeau SECOND: J. Beil AYES: J. Beil, M. Lebeau, N. Lall ABSTAIN: W. King NOES: None • March 9, 2011 - No meeting this month due to lack of agenda items. II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS None this month. III. CONSENT CALENDAR None this month. City of rang Public Works Department Tape #CTC -31.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. V� May 2011 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2010 Minutes] a Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — May 11, 2011 Pg. 2 IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request to adopt new speed zone boundaries and speed limits on Cannon St. between Creekside Ave. and Santiago Canyon Rd. Traffic Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. On conclusion of the staff report Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Chairman Beil - Could you give us a briefing on the renewed notifications and describe any new feedback received? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - We notified the same areas as last month and I believe that was about 500 notification letters. We received some correspondence and it is included in your package. A number of them were disapproving of the proposed 40 mph speed limit; however, we did received two in favor of the proposed new speed limit of 40 mph in the area. Commissioner Lebeau - The additional information makes it clear as to the reasons of what they are proposing. George Urch, 967 N. Rockhurst Dr . - I'm here to oppose staff recommendation on raising the speed limit from 35 mph to 40 mph. On the 1.7 mile stretch you have a number of residential neighborhoods, Linda Vista Elementary School; you also have four STOP signs and one traffic signal used for horse crossings. It's also a steep incline; we've experienced a severe increase in traffic since they've expanded the road at the Santiago /Cannon entrance, and quite a few speeders. The Orange Police Dept. is there on a regular basis in the morning to ticket speeders, they do a very good job. People blow through the STOP signs on a regular basis and fly up the road. The neighborhood association that represents us has sent a letter Santiago Neighborhood Association of 298 households in opposition to this. We think it is a safety hazard for kids that are attending school, and it's a safety hazard for those of us who are trying to turn into our neighborhoods, and for pedestrians and there are quite a few that walk up and down the street. ` city of Tape #CTC -31.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 7445536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department B May 11 [N:/Traffic /CFC/2010 Minutesla Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission – May 11, 2011 — Pg. 3 Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for final discussion and a motion. Chairman Beil - I think the issue that I'm not hearing from the residents is that everybody says that vehicles are speeding there but without adjusting the speed limit according to the vehicle code and state laws that you can't really say that they are speeding. That's the basic issue we are up against, without adjusting to the 85" Percentile the speed limit is not enforceable in court. I believe the officers are not going to spend their time out there writing tickets and then having to show up in court and being embarrassed of not being able to support those with a speed zone survey that properly sets the speed limit on the road. I'm very familiar myself with this area and the grades and also my experience in my professional life dealing with speed zones. Speed zones set at the 85th Percentile represent the natural comfort speed for the safety of the traveling public, so I'm going to support staffs recommendation. Vice Chairman Lall - Downhill speeds with that type of grade are very deceiving as you may feel comfortable driving that particular road at a speed greater than 35 mph I don't think people oftentimes take into consideration the extra distance it takes to stop a 2,000 or 3,000 lb. vehicle traveling at five additional miles an hour. The additional forces involved are considerable. I live on the north side of Cannon north of Santiago Canyon Rd. where there are steep grades. I understand the legal requirement the City is up against here, I drive past school zones all day long and I would be very confident saying 85% of the people are not going 25 mph, yet we can enforce that and maintain that 25 mph zone as legally enforceable. I would feel that there has got to be some justification to keep a safer speed on Cannon and not just rely on 85% of the driving public to dictate to us what our speed is. I have concerns and there are accidents from that grade. Chairman Beil - That brings up a point the laws regarding speed in school zones of when children are present. Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - Based on the physical conditions of what is apparent and what might not be apparent to drivers, we looked at the grade which is 9.9 %. Considering the proposed speed we consider the sight distance issues and the stopping distance issues and they all meet our requirement for the proposed speed limit of 40 mph and even higher at 45 mph. Now we looked at all the access connecting to Cannon are controlled by STOP signs on the side City of Tape #CTC -31.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department B May 11 [N:/rraffic /CTC /2010 Minutes] Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — May 11, 2011 Pg. 4 streets. There are five residents in addition to the school, and they are all controlled by STOP signs, we looked at sight distance for all those intersections and we didn't see any significant issues with that. All the signs are in place, all the warning signs are in place and we looked at that and all our surveys indicated that 85% of all the motorists traveling over 40 mph and all the studies show that in order to have a safe road you need uniformity within the driving speed and the uniformity comes from the comfortable speed that 85% of the motorists feel. We feel comfortable because of the time that we have spent on it. It doesn't mean 1 or 2% are not going to go 50 -60 mph and cause an accident, that could happen any time or any place. Commissioner King - There is a lot of work that went into this, I think 3 months of work. I think it's clear what we've got to do. We can duck that and say it's unfair but we've really got to do this so the Police can write tickets out there. I move that we accept staff's recommendation. ACTION: a) Remove the 35 MPH speed zone on Cannon St. between Creekside Ave. and San Juan Dr. from the Orange Municipal Code. b) Approve the establishment of a new speed zone of 40 MPH on Cannon St. from Creekside Ave. to Cliffway Dr. c) Approve the establishment of a new speed zone of 40 MPH on Cannon St. from Cliffway Dr. to Santiago Canyon Rd. d) Forward to the City Council for final action and adoption by ordinance. MOTION: W. King SECOND: M. Lebeau AYES: J. Beil, W. King, M. Lebeau. NOES: N. Lall ABSTAIN: None k End of Consideration Itemskk City of Tape #CTC -31.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department May 11 [N:/rraffic /CTC/2010 Minutes]a Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission – May 11, 2011 — Pg. 5 V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. VI. ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission. The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled: 5:30 P.M. Wednesday - June 8, 2011 Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division then @citvoforanee.or CITY OF ORANGE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT 300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714) 744 -5536 FAX: (714) 744 -5573 City of Tape #CTC -31.04 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 7445536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department May 11 [N:/Traffic /CTC/2010 Minutesla Printed On Recycled Paper