09-14-2011 - Minutes TCM]
CITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: September 14, 2011
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, N. Lall, W. King, C. Vaughan
Absent - Commissioners: M. Lebeau
Present - Staff: A. Farahani, W. Winthers, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, C. Perez
C. Approval of Minutes
• August 10, 2011
ACTION: Approved as published.
MOTION:
N. Lall
SECOND:
C. Vaughan
AYES:
J. Beil, N. Lall, C. Vaughan
ABSTAIN:
W. King
NOES:
None
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
City of
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 2
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of 2 -Hour time limit parking on the north side of
LaVeta Ave. easterly of Tustin St., in proximity to the Santiago Creek Bike Trail
access point.
Richard Hess
308 S. Craig Dr.
Orange CA 92869
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — I would like to advise you that Marie
Knight, Community Services Director is here, she is the project manager for the
trail and can answer any questions you have for the trail.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for discussion of this item.
Tim Love, 1801 E. LaVeta Ave. #122 — We have quite a few people here from 1801
and the mobile home park and I agree with staffs comments and I would just
like to add a couple. There is plenty of parking available if you use initiative to
go find it. You can dive directly across Tustin St. into the Rock Creek residential
area and park there; and when the trail creek is finished there will be plenty of
parking at Yorba St. and Chapman Ave. Also if you wanted to there is a little
dirt area at the end of the LaVeta Bridge at the entrance to the mobile home park
that the Flood Control fenced off, it's empty, it's not used for anything. You
could put temporary parking in there. It would greatly inconvenience all of our
residents to have that parking taken away. We lost a bunch of parking places
when they put the creek trail through.
Tyson Rose, 1801 E. LaVeta Ave. — I've been a resident here for the last 30 days
and parking is a big problem in the area. We live in an isolated area and there
seems to be a 1,000 residents in that small area and I have to park every night
down Tustin St. on the other side in a housing tract and I have to walk to my
truck every day. This would be a big inconvenience to us.
Till Saunders, 1801 E. LaVeta Ave. #207 — There is a lot of parking available at the
Rio Center across the street and it may be beneficial to them to put in some type
of metered parking on that side, and it would open up the parking on LaVeta for
us. I end up moving my car a couple of blocks down the road when I have
visitors so they may use my parking space.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 3
Lauren Andrews, 1081 E. LaVeta Ave. #218 —1 have a 5 yr. little girl and you can
imagine the inconvenience of coming home late at night and looking for a
parking space. I have babysitter's that come, guests, so losing that parking
would really inhibit our ability to live a comfortable lifestyle in our apartment
that we pay rent for every month. We should have a right of having available
parking right outside our homes just as other residents do. If you were to do
something like this at the local parks such as Pitcher Park where parking is a
huge problem as well the residents there would have a cow. If you decide you
have to put metered parking in I would ask that you do a limited number of
spaces because not many residents drive to this location to use the trail, most of
them live nearby and ride their bicycles there so if you would limit the metered
parking to just 2 spaces during the day and keep it free at night that would work.
Iuan Duran, 1801 E. LaVeta Ave #111 — It's a big inconvenience and coming
home at night there is limited parking. I really don't think very many people
access the trail at our location. If you put in meters then you should give us
permits to have the right to park there even if it's limited parking.
Chairman Beil — Just a point of clarification, there seems to be talk of a proposal
to put in parking meters at this location. We don't have that proposal on the
table do we?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No sir. What is being considered is
the installation of green curb for maybe 1 -2 vehicles that is posted with a 2 -Hour
parking limit and a begin and end signs. Time limit parking is only enforceable
during business hours Monday through Saturday.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
final discussion and a motion.
Vice Chairman Lall — Has there been any consideration for parking needs that
were taken into consideration?
Marie Knight, Community Services Director — Yes. We have actually even
though Tustin and LaVeta begin our current project, once open that is an activity
that will start in the City of Santa Ana by the Discovery Science Center and come
all the way through Orange and eventually to Santiago Oaks Park. There are
multiple locations along the trail for staging that we have planned so once this
leg is opened there will be staging and parking available at Yorba Park, Hart
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 PQ. 4
Park and Grijalva Park alone, not to mention some of the Santa Ana areas where
they are staging, but also the north trail that we are completing along the Cannon
area. So from our perspective, Community Services, we're not in support of this
application, we believe there is plenty of other parking. We know this is a
heavily used area by the neighborhood that was one of our considerations in the
planning of the trail. The apartment owner did work with us as well with the
building of the trail, and they did lose a few spots in the back, so I would hate to
see us take any more spaces away from this group. We have a lot of people
wanting to use the trail already and most of them are pedestrians using the trail
close to their homes, the staging areas are mostly for bicycle groups and that's
why they would need the larger parking areas.
Chairman Beil — I agree with the staff recommendation, I don't see this as a traffic
safety or traffic issue, and really I think the key thing is that there is no substance
behind the claim of use of trail at this point. There is no data to support that.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney — I just want to clarify something so the
audience doesn't go away with the wrong impression. I heard some comments
that they are here because this is a staff generated idea to take away the parking.
The reason this item is here is because a resident sent in a letter saying they
thought it was a good idea to put in 2 -Hour parking so people could come and
use the trail. Because they sent in that letter it had to be investigated by Traffic
Engineering and be presented to the Traffic Commission to either accept his idea
or to deny the idea. That is why you received the notices, and it's why you're
here today, and that is the decision the Commission will have to make.
Commissioner Beil — Thank you, that is a good clarification as we were getting
the same perception that something seemed odd.
Commissioner Vaughan — I am extremely familiar with item we're taking about
and all the access points currently available, and in all my years of biking and
walking in this area I've never seen anything that makes that particular access
more unique that would outweigh the consideration of the residents who live in
the area. It would be much more convenient for someone who needed to be on
the trail to go to Hart Park or Cambridge and have that access. I would like to
deny the request.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 5
ACTION:
MOTION:
SECOND:
AYES:
Deny the requested installation of "2- Hour" time limit parking.
C. Vaughan
J. Beil
Unanimous
2. Request for the implementation of a Neighborhood Parking Permit Program on
Quincy Ave. and Monroe Ave. between California St. and Lincoln St., and the
cul- de-sac streets of Gardner St. and Greengrove St.
Alyce Watanabe
1327 E. Monroe Ave.
Orange CA 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Dani Smith, 1303 E. Monroe Ave. — I've lived here 9 years. Just this weekend I
had to call the Police to come out to be able to get out of my driveway because
they park so close to my driveway I would hit their bumper. I shouldn't have to
feel this way, I live there, and all the cop said was that they could issue a ticket.
For me that's very irritating if I can't get out of my driveway. I have a big Tahoe
and when I'm backing up I have to go over the curb to get out on the street. This
happened once before and it was a large work truck parked there at that time.
Chairman Beil — Do you feel this is overflow from the densely overcrowded areas
up towards Lincoln St.?
Dani Smith, 1303 E. Monroe Ave — Oh yeah. It's all along Albertson's. I'm
towards the end of the street and it's pretty bad. I'm closer to the school.
Alyce Atanabe, 1327 E. Monroe Ave — I have a letter I want to read (copy
attached).
Iackie Barragan, 1328 E. Monroe Ave — The parking issue is out of hand, I've
lived at this home 13 years and I've seen this situation progressively get worse
and worse and I do believe it is due to the overpopulation of cars coming from
the apartments. We have been victims of the trash cans being moved, no parking
for our own visitors, not being able to back out of our driveway, being issued
citations by the trash contractor for putting the cans too close to the cars. They
move them up onto our lawn if they need to make room. I'm in favor of the
permit parking.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 6
Mark Dambrosno, 1320 E. Monroe Ave — There is nothing new to add. It is the
apartment overflow traffic parking here and I observe where people are walking
when they park their cars.
Daphne lennings, 1311 E. Monroe Ave — I've lived here for 30 years and I
originally moved here pleased with the idea of being in a mixed neighborhood of
apartments and single - family homes. Over the last 5 -7 years the parking
situation has become intolerable indicating to me that perhaps too many people
are living in those apartments than should be. Since we've filed the petition it
seems a young man who goes to Chapman University has bought a house in the
area and is using it as a fraternity house, so I believe the Sunday Dana was
walking about it was many frat boys coming to a party at that house. I know the
area around Chapman University has a significant problem with that, so I'm
thinking that by passing this we will nip that problem in the bud also.
Yulisa Cardona, 1346 E. Monroe Ave — I have only lived here a year and a half
and last week my trash wasn't picked up because someone moved the cans to the
sidewalk so they could park on the street. That bothers me and my driveway
was under construction so I'm not currently able to park there so every day
when I come home I have to park 6 houses away. I wish that we could get this
petition approved.
Revna Sotelo, 990 N. Lincoln St . — I'm in favor of the permit parking even though
it's not for my street but my mom is concerned that once you've approved this
for those streets they will come over to our street. There is overcrowding on our
street as well. We've had the same problem with the trash cans, they break our
sprinklers, they throw trash all over, we've also had a hit & run with our cars
being hit. We've lived here 12 years and it's getting worse all the time. We want
to see if we can get parking permits also for just in front of our property on
Lincoln St. We'd like to know what we can do to be included on this.
Chairman Beil - You said your location is 990 -992 N. Lincoln St.
Wade Marlow, 1412 E. Quincy Ave - We're in favor of the permit parking. My
comments are pretty much the same as everyone else. We often have to pick up
trash from the gutter and our lawns.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 7
Mike Tunstall, 1428 E. Adams Ave — I live on the corner of Lincoln St. and
Adams Ave. I use Access to get myself to work every day and there are a lot of
times I have to go out into the street because the bus can't get to my house
because there are cars lining the street. They often park in front of the handicap
ramp and I can't get down there either. There have been numerous times we
have almost been hit trying to get out onto the street. I don't feel it is my
obligation to provide supplemental parking for the apartment complex; I'm not
getting any of their rents. We can't have guests over; I've got 2 kids that need to
park too. I don't think its right to put this burden on us.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
final discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — I think the last 2 speakers live outside the area where the permit
parking is proposed.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — Yes that is correct, they were notified
because they reside within 300 feet of the area.
Chairman Beil — If somebody wanted to amend at a later date to expand this area
is that possible?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — What we try to do is we made our
best guess here as to the most severely impacted area which were namely
Monroe and Quincy. We are unaware that sections of Adams Ave. or Lincoln St.
north of Adams Ave. for example are being impacted as well. If the residents of
those areas want to consider having permits they would have to do the same as
Ms. Watanabe, they would send a letter of request along with the $525
application fee and give us some indication of the size of the area. Then we
would prepare a petition they would circulate within their neighborhood.
Commissioner Vaughan — There were two residents who marked they were
opposed to the permits on the petition, I was wondering if they are here today or
if any of their neighbors had spoken with them. I'm curious as to their
opposition. 1072 Greengrove and 1093 Greengrove.
A Watanabe — One lady didn't want to be bothered, she didn't think it
affected her and there was a corner house that is down by the school who also
didn't think it affected them.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 8
Commissioner King - The lady that spoke indicated she observed cars without
plates; those cars could be towed, right?
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney - Assuming it has no plates and no other
registration identification; it could have paper tag in the window. The Police
Dept. would have to come out and investigate it and see if there was any valid
registration, run the VIN number and make that determination.
Commissioner King - So could you get those cars towed with some investigation
by the Police?
Commissioner Vaughan - If the car is on the street and there is a violation like
that, if there is no front plate, if the tags are out of registration. In my City
parking control officers can issue parking citations for certain violations of that
nature, certainly a Police officer can come out and issue citations. In the case of
vehicles that are parked in excess of 72 hours the police can come out and mark it
and if it hasn't been moved by the next day they would tow that vehicle.
Chairman Beil - I'd just like to say to the people that spoke who live outside the
proposed permit area, just come down and talk to Dave or Amir and they can
advise you on how to proceed to get your street included. I think the permit
parking programs are very successful and particularly when you get somebody
in the neighborhood to go out canvassing and doing the leg work that's very
important to the community. We have repeatedly dealt with these pockets of
housing conditions that are overcrowded. We can't control the number of
vehicles out there but we can try to provide a better quality of life for the
residents of these neighborhoods and congratulations for taking that initiative.
Commissioner Vaughan - I think this is an excellent example of residents all
coming together and I think it's a win -win for you in the City, and I appreciate it
as a resident to be able to take charge of the area in front of your home.
Chairman Beil - I'd ask Mr. Tunstall to please contact City staff and there is also
another resident on Lincoln who wants information to get into this.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - I would like to add that the process is
within 15 days if we don't get any appeals we will take this to the City Council
for their final approval.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 9
Chairman Beil — I think it's important where I don't want to delay this, we need
to look at the process of getting any additional areas amended as needed.
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney — You have to wait until the Council
approves it, and then there will be a period of time before the signs can go up,
and you get your permits. Once the permits are in place then the Police Dept.
will assign someone to patrol that area during the day. If there is a problem you
may call it in, they will send someone out to check it when they have someone
available, parking control is a lower priority call but your problem will be
addressed when they have someone available.
ACTION: Approved the request.
MOTION: W. King
SECOND: N. Lall
AYES: Unanimous
NOES:
3. Request for the installation of additional red curb markings on the west side of
Cambridge St. south of Lake Dr.
Brian Thomas
700 E. Lake Dr., #138
Orange CA 92866
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Michael VanHolpen, 849 E. Fairway Dr . — Opposed to request. The installation
of red curb would mean I would have to park on Fairway which has a lot of
duplexes and there isn't much parking; I would have to park on the other side of
Cambridge St., if you try crossing this street during the morning or afternoon it's
not easy, and I would have to cross with my kids when I take them to school.
My biggest issue is that this is right in front of my door and it would take my
parking away.
Virginia Miscione, 700 E. Lake Dr. #118 — Every morning when I go out the cars
are parked on the side and it does impede our vision. As you make a left you
have to look at the on- coming traffic but you also can't see beyond those parked
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 10
trucks and cars so you pull out and if there is a car on Cambridge pretty fast you
have to back up again and you're almost hit. That is what causes the anxiety of a
possible accident, if you're turning right it's not so bad. I sympathize with my
neighbor and if he has kids I know it can't be easy, but I think that if he parked
on the street beyond the street on his side, it would be a lot better for him and his
children than it would be for us to have the potential for an accident every time
we turn out of there. Also that is a bike path so not only does it block our vision
but it also blocks the bike path. Why did they put it in if people can't us it.
Todd Janssen, 803 E. Fairway Dr . — I'm about half -way down the block. There is
limited parking on our street, especially toward the end of the street where the 2
units on each corner of Cambridge and Fairway have limited driveways
compared with the other driveways on the street, they are somewhat forced to
park on Cambridge St. If that parking were removed it would either put them
back on Fairway Dr. or they would have to park on the other side of Cambridge
or even down across Lake towards the bridge.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
final discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — I'm very familiar with the area, it's pretty close to my
neighborhood and I drive it all the time. Personally I don't see a problem with a
vision zone and trying to pull out. Traffic is different at peak periods
particularly morning and afternoon, basically school drop -off and pick -up times.
ACTION: Deny the request.
MOTION: J. Beil
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 11
4. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the driveway
serving 800 N. Mallard St.
Lana Rolsen
PO Box 613
Yorba Linda CA 92885
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Lana Rolsen, 800 N. Mallard St . — I'm there most of the time because my tenants
are constantly calling me regarding parking problems, but on Friday they park
here through Monday. I leave a note on the side to not block the driveway.
When we try to turn into the street we are almost hitting the car when it's parked
here. On Mallard they have tri-plex units and I have people call me up that want
to rent a 2 bedroom unit for 7 people, 2 families. So we have more cars there so
that is why we have this issue.
Mark Calderon, 800 N. Mallard St. #A — In favor of the red curb. If there is 3 ft. of
red curb it's not going to help the line of vision but it's the part when they're past
that and impeding the driveway that is the issue, especially when it's a big F150
truck. This is a narrow street and you can't see them coming, if a neighbor has to
pull in then the cars behind him zoom to the left, there are kids running back and
forth everywhere and it's dangerous. I'm trying to pull around him and a car is
coming at me. We can't put the trash cans out at night.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
final discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — It's not just Mallard St., it's Morgan, Kathleen and another area
in the City that is completely over - densified and it has a lot of vehicles
populating the area. We can't just put in little pieces of red curb sporadically on
the street it will reduce the amount of parking. It's already pushed out on the
other side of Collins on Mallard dealing with permit parking and overnight
parking where the overflow has been actually crossing Collins Ave. I'm not in
favor of doing anything to remove parking in this area.
Vice Chairman Lall — When a car overhangs a driveway like that, is it a citable
offense or can they force that car to be towed?
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 12
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney -It's my understanding that if it's just
overhanging that's not citable as opposed to completely blocking.
Vice Chairman Lall - Is there any State or County law that prohibits the City of
Orange to implement an ordinance to prohibit overhanging that would allow the
Police to either cite or tow?
Wayne Winthers, Asst. City Attorney - I can't give you an official legal opinion
without research, but I would think that the parking rules are preempted by
State law and we probably would not be able to alter that, but I would have to
look at it further.
Vice Chairman Lall - I feel for your situation it's got to be a major headache, but I
have to agree with my colleagues that if we put in red curb for you everyone else
down the line is going to want it, and we're going to have a huge parking
problem that spill over to other streets.
Commissioner King - I understand this problem also, I have a fire hydrant in
front of my house and when school opened this term everybody parks in front of
the fire hydrant. Sometimes I go out and ask people to move their car and they
get mad, they don't want to move, "where's the sign that says I can't park in
front of a fire hydrant ", and I quote the Vehicle Code and they still don't want to
move.
ACTION: Deny the request.
MOTION: W. King
SECOND: C. Vaughan
AYES: Unanimous
End of Consideration Items
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 14, 2011 Pg. 13
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic
Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - October 12, 2011
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
then @citvoforanee.or
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92566
PH: (714) 7445536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
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