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09-12-2012 - Minutes TC0 CITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: September 12, 2012 I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, W. King, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan Absent - Commissioners: None Present - Staff: A. Farahani, W. Winthers, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, C. Perez C. Approval of Minutes • August 8, 2012 ACTION: Approved as published. MOTION: W. King SECOND: M. Lebeau AYES: Unanimous ABSTAIN: None II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS None this month. III. CONSENT CALENDAR None this month. ` City of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department E�7 September 2012 [N: /Traffic /CfC /2012 Minutes] a Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 12, 2012 Pg. 2 IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request for the installation of red curb markings between 2008 & 2014 E. Palmyra Ave. Khanh Luong 9381 Redwood St. Cypress, Ca. 90630 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman Beil — Is your observation that vehicles are always parked there? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — This particular vehicle was there on the day we conducted our field investigation I have seen larger vehicles parked in this spot, and there have been no vehicles parked in this spot on other visits. Keep in mind this photograph was taken in early afternoon when most everybody would be at work. As you can see there is a fairly high demand for on- street parking as it is. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. Khanh Luong, 9381 Redwood St., Cypress — While this is illegal we wouldn't want to burden the Police Dept. with having to call them every time because a lot of residents do park there, especially when there are big trucks there. We have already had an accident with one of our tenants. Later in the day when a lot of cars are parked in the neighborhood there are lots of kids playing and it creates a gigantic blind spot for drivers and people pulling out. When a pick -up truck is parked here it poses as danger not only to other motorists but to other people as well. Chairman Beil — You marked on the card that you are in favor of the red curb? Khanh Luong, 9381 Redwood St., Cypress — Yes we are. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for final comments and a motion. Commissioner Lebeau — Absent of our knowledge that it's already too small for a legal parking space, is there any other indicators by way of sign or notice to residents that are unfamiliar or in this case familiar with the area, that this is not a legal parking space? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — The area is actually too small to sign. You would have to have at least two signs, both a "BEGIN" and "END" plate. City of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department September 2012 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] Printed On Recycled Paper L4*] Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 12, 2012 Pg. 3 Obviously if you have an 11 ft. space it's just too small for that. Red curb would be the way to handle something like this; however, it is illegal to park here. You cannot park a vehicle there other than a motorcycle without overhanging one or both of those driveways. Commissioner King — If you get a call about this particular situation, do you just write a citation or can you tow that car? Sgt. Jeff Bird, OPD Traffic Bureau — It's case -by -case basis. Depending on the size of the vehicle that is there, some people will call because it's blocking but is it actually blocking their egress in and out of that driveway? It may be an inconvenience and it may be more difficult for them to pull in and to pull out but if it's not stopping them from pulling in or out we're probably not going to do anything with that vehicle. We have the availability of citing the vehicle, but once again it's a case -by -case situation, is the vehicle actually hanging over, on which side, what are they complaining about, and does it affect their vehicle or not? Chairman Beil — You can see one car pulled into the driveway in your picture on the street right behind the nearest car on the street (on the photo) that completely blocks the sidewalk and hangs out over the driveway. That exacerbates the situation in this area, because all of the driveways of those apartments in this area really have no legal driveway parking without blocking the sidewalk. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That's correct. Chairman Beil — I did not go by there at night but I would suspect at night that is full of cars and the sidewalks are unusable in that area. Vice Chairman Vaughan — Honest, law abiding people given any shred of space to park in an area where they think they have to go, they will usually go. I'll respect the comment that it will be redundant but I believe the lack of any noticeable direction in the form of red curb or a sign is the same as allowing it. I would say we would be assisting law enforcement in making this a red curb to keep those people from parking there. Commissioner Glasgow — It's a small area, I was down the street the other day but do you think red curb is really going to stop them from doing it? It's impacted; there are other red curbs around there. I think I saw one car in one of the red areas, it's still going to be law enforcement's duty to go down and check i City of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Vrang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department B September 2012 [N:[Traf6c /CTC /2012 Minutes] Printed On Recycled Paper H Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 12, 2012 Pg. 4 on it and write a citation or not but is a red curb really going to stop them from parking there. Commissioner Glasgow — But law enforcement is still going to have be on that street constantly monitoring it, or getting phone calls saying they are parking here, and then you guys are going to go down and for a red curb you'd write a ticket, where if it were not a red curb you would not. Am I correct or is it the same thing? Sgt. Teff Bird, OPD Traffic Bureau — If it's a red curb then we will write a ticket, if it's not a red curb it's a case -by -case depending if they are truly blocking anybody or not. Chairman Beil — I agree with Vice Chairman Vaughan on this, if there is some deterrent it gives our Police the ability to write the ticket. It is actually a visual deterrent. I think incrementally it will be less likely for people to park there. My suspicion it is the same people who always park there based on the oil spots. They will learn very quickly, it will take one ticket and their behavior will be correct. ACTION: Approved the installation of 11 ft. of red curb between 2008 & 2014 E. Palmyra Ave. MOTION: C. Vaughan SECOND: M. Lebeau AYES: Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau, Vaughan NOES: King 2. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of Loredo St. between White Oak Ridge and Shadow Pines Rd. Thomas Larkin 158 S. Shadow Pines Rd. Orange, Ca. 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Tom Larkin, 158 S. Shadow Pines Rd . — This is the first year we have had problems with the parking. The reason is that east of White Oak they put in permit parking only and that means nobody can park there unless they are a resident. That is where all the traffic is coming from. During the week you do `g City of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department B September 2012 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] a Printed On Recycled Paper H Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 12, 2012 PQ. 5 not see that much but on the weekends it is a lot heavier and it's a short street, if you put 3 cars on each side of the street and people are coming around the curve and this all the way around White Oak, all the way around Canyon View. There are only two entrances without red curb and that is at Briar Creek off Canyon View, and Loredo. There is a lot of trash there. Today when I marked it off there were baby things there and they don't clean it that often. Chairman Beil - Do you see a lot of the use and it's heavier on the weekend, do you see them biking and hiking and such? Tom Larkin, 158 S. Shadow Pines Rd . - Yes. Today as I was leaving somebody parked right in front of my house. They don't' always park on Loredo, they can park anywhere in the tract because we don't have permit parking, so we get a lot of traffic there too. Chairman Beil - Do you think putting in red curb on Loredo will push them back onto your street? Tom Larkin, 158 S. Shadow Pines Rd . - It may push them into the street but at least it would leave Loredo open, but I don't know how the people across the street got permit parking and nobody else was told about it or given information on how to request permit parking. Can you give me a date when that was given? Chairman Beil - It was fairly recent. Tom Larkin, 158 S. Shadow Pines Rd . - That's why we have the influx of traffic on our side. Vice Chairman Vaughan - Has there been any discussion with your neighbors about the possibility of permit parking? Tom Larkin, 158 S. Shadow Pines Rd . - I have not done that, all I wanted to start with was to see what the red curb would do cause there is red everywhere else except into our tract. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for final comments and a motion. Commissioner King - I would recommend that you get your neighbors to sign a petition the County to provide more parking at Peter's Canyon. I have driven up there and the parking is very limited for the Park. Get some signatures together, make a presentation to Supervisor Campbell, write him a letter and maybe that City of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department B September 2012 [N:/rraffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 1 0 Printed On Recycled Paper H Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 12, 2012 Pg. 6 will relieve the parking. Now whether or not they will do it is unknown, it's up to them, but I think that is the relief you need overall is to get enough parking at the Park and then people will park where they should. Tom Larkin, 158 S. Shadow Pines Rd . — That's good but when this area east of White Oak was given permit parking that just shoved everybody over into our place. Chairman Beil — In reality what's happening is there is a demand at the Park and this demand is using the neighborhood for their parking. As the neighborhoods try to control this demand it's pushing that parking into the adjoining neighborhoods. One of the questions is when does it stop? Commissioner King — That's part of it. It just goes on and on, and we'll be back at it in 6 months. Our colleagues after us will be addressing the same problem. The problem really is parking for the Peter's Canyon Park; I support the idea of doing that if it would be helpful. Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — As you are aware we have to take the items recommended by the Traffic Commission to the City Council for final approval for the recent area. Staff was directed a couple of things; we can add some additional parking on Skylark and also to go back to the Council for reporting because there was pros and cons, they were in favor of and some opposed to the permit parking in the area so we were directed to go back and monitor the area. As part of this monitoring activity we have been in contact with the County Park and they recently told us they have 75 parking spaces before and they have added 50 additional spaces at the beginning of the summer and they are talking about possibly adding 200 more parking spaces by next summer. This will be a part of our report to the City Council in December. Commissioner Kin e — So the County has agreed to add 250 more spaces? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — They didn't agree with us, but that is their plan. Chairman Beil — One of the issues is not necessarily Peter's Canyon Park, there is a system of off -road trails that Peter's Canyon Park connects to. Going north of Peter's Canyon Park on Jamboree past Chapman, you go by the college there on Jamboree and the Santiago Creek Trail starts adjacent to Irvine Park, and I drive up there frequently as I drop off and pick up kids for practices up in the Park and I see the mountain bikers and the other bikers who are actually parking over City of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department B �' September 2012 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] CIO Printed on Recycled Paper H Minutes of a Regular Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 12, 2012 Pg. 7 in neighborhoods in this area that are not permitted and actually are riding because there is nowhere else to park unless you want to pay and go into Irvine Park or Peter's Canyon Park. They park in these neighborhoods and they go on long rides up in the hills. It's beyond Peter's Canyon, based on that and the fact that there is quite a bit of red curb already on other neighborhood entrances in the area I would support this incremental thing to go ahead and give it a try, it will match the other neighborhoods. There is a bigger issue and it's not just Peter's Canyon parking, it is people who do not want to pay for parking, no matter how cheap it is. Commissioner Glasgow — I drove around here and part of the reason why the other entry streets don't have red curbs is that the entrances are about 25 -30 ft. into the complex, where Loredo is almost a 70 ft. entrance into this neighborhood. The red curb makes sense where it already is. I would think if I was having guests over that would be a great place for them to park and red curb would deter that and blocking parking in the rest of the neighborhood. Tom Larkin — Most of the people living in the tract do not park on Loredo because they come around the curve pretty fast and that STOP sign, 70% of the people don't obey the STOP sign. Since there's nobody really coming down Shadow Pines Rd. and people in the neighborhood don't park on Loredo. Commissioner Glasgow — You can get permit parking, you go through the City for the appropriate documents and get your neighbors to sign the petition and bring it back to the City. Vice Chairman Vaughan — I think the permit parking recently approved is going to push people into your neighborhood other than just Loredo, and 1 think that is the reality of it. I would encourage you to pursue the permit program. Both of the adjacent neighborhoods have the permit program, it would be nice if the County follows through with their additional parking but we can't count on it, which would be your long -term solution. I would hate for us to approve red curb and then have to readdress this problem with a parking permit because it gets exacerbated for you and your neighbors. Tom Larkin — I don't think it would matter if they put in 50 more parking spaces because the people that are parking in our tract don't want to pay. It's not a matter of overloaded or anything so they park in our neighborhood because we're the closest one without permits. cit of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department September 2012 [N:/rraffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] a Printed On Recycled Paper Minutes of a Regula Meeting - City Traffic Commission — September 12, 2012 Pg. 8 1 ACTION MOTION: SECOND: AYES: NOES: Denied the red curb. E. Glasgow W. King Unanimous None End of Consideration Items V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. VI.ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission. The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled: 5:30 P.M. Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Wednesday - October 10, 2012 Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division pthen@cii)roforange.org CITY OF ORANGE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT 300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714) 744 -5536 FAX: (714) 744-5573 City of Tape #CTC -32.05 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department B September 2012 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] a Printed On Recycled Paper