02-12-2014 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: February 12, 2014
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present — Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, W. King, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Absent — Commissioners: None
Present — Staff: A. Farahani, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, P. Then
C. Elected Jim Beil as Chairman, whose term shall be from February 2014 through
December 2016.
MOTION:
M. Lebeau
SECOND:
E. Glasgow
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
D. Elected Christian Vaughan as Vice Chairman, whose term shall be from February 2014
through December 2016.
MOTION:
M. Lebeau
SECOND:
W. King
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
E. Approval of Minutes
• November 13, 2013
ACTION: Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION:
E. Glasgow
SECOND:
C. Vaughan
AYES:
Glasgow, King, Lebeau, Vaughan
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Beil
City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
O ran g e Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 12, 2014
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the
driveways serving 856 N. Commerce St.
Dana Baldwin
856 N. Commerce St.
Orange Ca 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Vice - Chairman Vaughan — You mention that parking is in high demand for this
street, do the number of available spaces within the business parking lots exceed
the demand for the on- street parking?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — There are open spaces in the parking
lot of the subject address. We didn't do a full evaluation of the neighboring
businesses. We're fairly certain the demand is coming from the area, we're not
sure if its clients visiting the various businesses or if its employees themselves.
Dana Baldwin, 856 N. Commerce St . — The business directly across from us has
one driveway and their curbs are painted red so they can get in and out easily.
The reason we are asking for this is that it is literally on a blind curve. Every
time you pull out you're looking around this blind curve and then someone is
flying this way. The other factor is business to business everybody jaywalks.
There must be probably 50 people working there and they have 3 parking spots.
They own both businesses and so they walk back and forth so they are constantly
jaywalking. I don't have a problem with that per se, other than I'm trying to see
around the blind curve, I'm trying to get around the truck, every time I go out of
g City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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my driveway and I'm looking right across the street and they are painted red
and we don't have any barrier to even look around and it's a dangerous
situation. There hasn't been an accident yet only because we take 30 seconds to
get out of the driveway, and there is no parking available for anybody, it's
hugely over - parked. None of our employee's park out there, we are all in our
spaces because we have enough.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil - I'm trying to remember the details of when we approved the red
curb almost directly across the street. It was because they had the one driveway
and they also had delivery trucks trying to make turns out of a somewhat
narrow driveway, that's what I recall.
Dana Baldwin, 856 N. Commerce St - Yes, several times daily.
Commissioner Glasgow - Big tractor trailers or semis?
Dana Baldwin, 856 N. Commerce St - Semi - trucks.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I drove by and I remember the other item fairly well
and I also know what's it's like the first time you get your nose out you're in
traffic when you're doing it and the problems it presents. I'd like to move to
grant the red curb.
Commissioner Lebeau - I see there is a fire hydrant in the photograph you have
presented; did you notice anyone parking in front of the fire hydrant during any
of your visits to the site?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - No they were observing the 15 ft.
distance away from the fire hydrant.
Chairman Beil - I think the proponent and their position on it I see agreeing with
the proponent that's asking from the perspective from trying to look at the
turning far to the right looking for oncoming traffic coming around the corner
and also having to get a vision zone to look at oncoming traffic looking straight
down the street on the right side.
City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 12, 2014
ACTION: Approved request of proponent and install the red curb on both
sides of the driveway at 856 N. Commerce St.
MOTION:
C. Vaughan
SECOND:
M. Lebeau
AYES:
Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau, Vaughan
NOES:
King
ABSTAIN:
None
2. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the driveway
serving 240 W. Fletcher Ave.
Doug Hall
240 W. Fletcher Ave.
Orange Ca 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Richard Peltzer 333 W. Fletcher Ave — I live directly across from there. Up and
down that street for quite some time it's gotten worse in the last few years.
Where these people are coming from, I do have an idea, they're coming from
other businesses west of this location on Fletcher from as far away as Batavia St.
they hike all the way from Batavia and park in front of my house. I bought that
house in 1969 and I have never been able to park in front of it in all that time,
someone has always beaten me to it. Any red anywhere around there is just
going to impact somewhere else. Right now no one appears to be using the side
streets to my home but I think that's next. They will start parking in the
residential areas. There are businesses down the way, I'm glad they are
successful, but you can't run a business with 60 employees and only have 6
parking spots, and then have those employees pull up in front of my house, pull
bicycles out and then ride to their place of business. It's just not right, where the
impact has come from in the last two years; it's just out of control. Prior to that
though I never had that situation I never had anybody parking 2 -3 cars in front
of my house on a daily basis, it had good rhythm to it all, now there's not. It's a
problem and it's so unsightly to see all these cars parked around my house, and I
take great pride in how my house looks, I just feel pretty hopeless about it.
g Cityof Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 12, 2014
Chairman Beil - Thank you for your comments, there probably are some things
you should talk to staff afterwards about other options for perhaps a parking
permit program.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - The policy for permit parking has been
under review so the City is not accepting any applications at this time. We are
hoping within the next 3 -4; months we can improve the policies and bring
something before you and then the City Council for approval and after that we
will accept applications.
Gary Tracy, 343 W. Fletcher Ave - I'm Richard's neighbor and like him I have
the same sentiments. I have children so I have a different concern as well. The
parking is a huge issue for us. Every single morning at 5:45 am - 6:00 am I have
3 brand new best friends parked in front of my house, I can't park in front of my
house unless I park there the night before. I always park in the driveway. The
businesses that are coming down to where we're at is the tree trimmers
businesses, there have been about 3 -4 that have opened over off of American
Way on the back side of that there are people who rent those spaces and then
they park their trucks but for some reason, I don't understand I just talked to a
Bill's Sweeping employee today and I asked him why doesn't he swap out your
cars? You're taking out a Bill's Sweeping truck why don't you park your vehicle
where the company car was parked? All their employees' park down in front of
my house, and it's a good hike, it probably takes them a good 5 minutes to hike
down there. As far as the permit I know out front when I pulled up here you
have 2 Hour parking during normal business hours. Maybe that's something
where the kids can dropped off in front of their school. As you were saying it's a
safety thing because these people that are being dropped off at school there is
nowhere to park.
Chairman Beil - How do you feel about the red curb proposal we're talking
abouttoday?
Gary Tracy, 343 W. Fletcher Ave. - My understanding first when I got the letter
was that they wanted to red curb the whole front of their business which isn't the
thing that is going on. The 20 ft. I understand trying to get out of a parking lot
especially when people are parking right up to it is no fun while people are
speeding down a big thoroughfare on Fletcher between Batavia and Glassell,
everybody takes that as aside street to cut through and people speed down it all
the time. If the red curb as to be, then it has to be but at the same time that's one
City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. _ v
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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more stall that is going to be parking on the other side of the street. If a person
can't part there they are going to be in front of my house or Richard's house or
next to the school. I oppose it.
Chairman Beil closes the public hearing and returns it to the City Traffic Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — It's another area of densification I see this different actually as
the last item that we just approved the red curb given the street width and the
fact that there is residential development on one half of the street. Red curb
would take away maybe about 20 ft on each side and that will impact parking in
this area where we have residential on one side of the street. Unfortunately this
item isn't addressing the larger problem and both of you were here to make us
aware of, we're just here to consider this red curb item but we heard you loud
and clear and staff can talk to you about options.
Randy Peltzer - What would you recommend as a next step for our issue?
Chairman Beil — I'll leave that to staff to discuss with you with their
recommendation. There is a lot going on with the City Council from a recent
change and I think the City Council is directing that the permit parking program
be reviewed for modification.
Commissioner Lebeau — In addition to the observations you just made this
particular building and site has another driveway with 160 ft. of red curb to the
west, and there is no impedance from the people parking in that lot or exiting
from the other driveway. That makes a significant difference between this and
the prior matter.
There were comments from the audience; however, as they were from the seats
and not at the microphone they were unintelligible.
Commissioner King — The red curb is proposed to be in front of the 240 Fletcher,
what does that do for traffic for these guys over here in the residential area?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — There is demand for parking on both
sides of the street. We look at the entire reach of Fletcher Ave. between Glassell
and Batavia, there is a lot of red curb in that area and the more you add the cars
will just move somewhere else on the street. This is a car length on either side of
City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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the subject driveway; those cars aren't going to go away they are just going to go
somewhere else. They may move across the street they may actually be getting
to that tipping point where they move into the neighborhood, which we would
really not like to see.
Commissioner King - They already have a bad parking problem in the
residential area and they want a red curb in front of the industrial building
across the street?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - They don't want it? (referring to
previous speakers).
Commissioner Glasgow - In the letter from Mr. Hall he notes there has been an
accident but in your research it says they haven't been any accidents.
Unknown speaker comments about trucks entering parking space and the
accident resultant from turning wide and hitting
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - We are not aware of this accident, the
window we look at for accidents is 3 years and that is reasonable time duration.
Once you get any older than 3 years and you haven't had an accident in that time
then you're getting old in the accident scene. In this particular case if the
resident is accurate then the red curb would not have corrected that type of
accident because it didn't involve a vehicle coming down the street colliding
with somebody coming out of the driveway. It involves somebody who was
apparently following a little too closely when the truck swung wide to make the
turn into the driveway. That is a completely different type of collision.
ACTION: Accept staff's recommendation and deny the requested
installation of red curb on both sides of the driveway serving 240
W. Fletcher Ave.
MOTION: Glasgow
SECOND: King
Commissioner Lebeau - May I make a substitute motion? That we deny the red
curb and ask staff to investigate whether the other red curb was installed
appropriately?
g ran g City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
e Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 12, 2014
Chairman Beil - Do you accept that?
Commissioner Glasgow - Yes
Commissioner King - Yes
AYES: Unanimous
3. Request for the removal of red curb from various locations along both sides of
Water St. between Chapman Ave. and Almond Ave.
Jose Diaz
Water Manager
Public Works Department
CITY OF ORANGE
189 S. Water St.
Orange CA 92866
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Chairman Beil — Is there a schedule on any development plans on this property?
I know the City has been doing some demolition of some of the old buildings.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Nothing that we are aware of. In the past
they have been talking about the new Fire Dept. stations but that's long term
planning.
Chairman Beil — I think a lot of the removal will be handy even for any
construction or preliminary work done it gives more on- street parking.
ACTION: Approve the request and remove the red curb.
MOTION:
Beil
SECOND:
King
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
Cityof Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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4. Request for the installation of red curb markings for the easterly and westerly
driveways serving the business complex at 317 W. Grove Ave.
Donna Cahoon
317 W. Grove Ave.
Orange Ca 92865
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Commissioner Glasgow — What is the width of the driveways? Are they 30 ft.?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Anal — Yes, I believe they are 30 -35 ft.
Lynn Kershaw, 345 W. Grove Ave. — I own the building on the westerly in the
very front space, my office window looks out on Grove Ave. and every single
day event there are screeching tires. I observed a car going sideways down the
road and the big box trucks park there and they are tenants within the space and
I believe they park on the street because they don't want their trucks broke into
and they less incidents of this if the trucks are parked on the street rather than
the parking lots overnight. I observed an accident that happened; the driver was
creeping out of the driveway in order to make a left turn onto Grove Ave. in
order to see around the truck. There was a car coming rapidly so the person
jammed it in reverse and screamed back in so he wouldn't be hit, and another car
had come up behind him and he rammed into the front of the car behind him.
There will be a serious accident if we don't stop big trucks parking along the
street because you cannot see them. My wife routinely calls the Police Dept. and
they have ticketed those trucks so I don't know what their parking ticket is or if
there is already a law that prevents those big trucks from parking. If they do that
would need to be enforced so these people don't park there.
Kristofer Wilkes, 4940 Campus Dr., Irvine, CA — Pretty much everything he said
except we consider that is pretty low demand for parking out there. Other than
the big trucks there are not a lot of guys parking out there. The big trucks are the
problem because it's relatively narrow driveways and it has some sight distance
issues. I'm stunned there haven't been more accidents. Motorists get to a pretty
high speed and the cars are coming at each other head on so one guys pulls out
you can have a head on accident which could be a pretty serious issue. The main
issue is the semi - trucks that park there. When cars are parked here you can see,
but not when the trucks are there. 1 trunk a red curb would be a pretty good
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ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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solution. I'm the property manager for the complex and we represent 19 owners
and everyone present at the last board meeting unanimously agreed they wanted
to see something done about this, they want to see red curb out there.
Larry Cahoon, 317 W. Grove Ave. — I notice we didn't pull up any of the photos
that show the existing red curb. I know you said it was mostly down by Batavia
St. which is true, but this our neighbor right here, which is Waste Management.
Do you notice to the east of their driveway what they have, red curb, and I
assume it's about 20 ft. It's a busy complex and people are in and out all the
time, and for some reason I think that Grove is one of those side streets that is a
cut -off street, it's used to get across from Batavia to Glassell because there is no
faster way. I don't know why but if you take the average speed it's not what the
posted speed is. We have to inch out and I think it's mostly Waste Management
employees that are usually parking there, I think. It presents an extremely
dangerous position.
Chairman Beil closes the public hearing and returns it to the City Traffic Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — This appears to be similar to the very first proposal
where it seems we have a sight distance issue. More importantly, what I heard,
is that because there is not high demand for on- street parking I don't see any
reason or conflict not to support the business owners who are most affected. I
think that's the most important thing, we had a little more push and pull with
the last one because there was residential tied in so it was a little tricky, but here
it looks like we have the consent of the people most affected.
Commissioner Glasgow — One of the things they brought up was the commercial
vehicles that are parked on these streets. Isn't there a law prohibiting
commercial vehicles from parking on the street overnight, and being parked for a
certain amount of time?
Sgt. Teff Bird, OPD Traffic Bureau — That's correct. These trucks may park on the
street while actively picking up or dropping off materials. There are some
people that are parking here overnight and that is not proper, our motorcycle
officers have been instructed to check those during those times and to cite them,
that way eventually include enforcement. Some people look for commercial
districts believing that some cities allow parking on a street in a commercial
district that it is allowable in our City.
g Cityof Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Chairman Beil - We have a motion to go ahead and deny the staff
recommendation and approve the placement of the red curb. For some of the
reasons stated I also support of this. As far as a 20 ft. vision zone red curb, do
you have any comments on what kind of a vision zone that really provides for a
box truck or semi or large commercial vehicle?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - When you are talking about a vehicle
that is large like that then you really would have to take all parking off to
provide adequate sight distance. While we saw 1 or 2 box type trucks there
weren't a lot during business hours. Primarily the demand was passenger
vehicles and regular pick -up trucks, which I think 20 -25 ft. would be adequate
for this situation and the posted speed limit on this street which is 35 MPH.
ACTION: Deny staff recommendation and approve the installation of red
curb.
Commissioner Glasgow - Even with the red curb installed if you park a box
truck there you're not going to be able to see. Even if they park these trucks in
front of the red curb you're still not going to be able to see. Part of the problem is
Code Enforcement on the vehicles that are being parked there; get those out of
the way. Regular cars and pick -up trucks aren't going to give you a problem.
It's not going to give you what you're looking for if they continue to park there.
Chairman Beil - I have a likewise feeling but given the fact that the demand is
low we're not really taking away much. I think there is ample parking in the
business complex.
MOTION:
Vaughan
SECOND:
Lebeau
AYES:
Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau, Vaughan
NOES:
King
ABSTAIN:
None
End of Consideration Items
City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
Chairman Beil - While there's nothing agendized I may ask you rather than an
administrative report if you have anything to report actions the Council may
have recently taken.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - At the meeting last night the Council
approved retaining the red curbs on 453 S. Orange St. and there was an appeal to
keep the red curb but to take away that red curb that was not officially installed.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic
Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - April 9, 2014
Respectfully submitted,
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen @cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
City of Tape #CTC -34.01 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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