03-12-2014 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: March 12, 2014
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, W. King
Absent Commissioners: M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Present - Staff: A. Farahani, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
February 12, 2014 - Not available at this time.
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
r of Tape #CTC -34.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
Request changes to policies, procedures and guidelines of the Neighborhood Parking
Permit Program.
Traffic Engineering Division
Public Works Department
CITY OF ORANGE
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — I would like to go over some of the significant
changes.
1. The steps for the Program Implementation
• Upon receipt of the request staff conducts a brief evaluation to determine if the
request is qualified for the program.
• Staff will explore other mitigation that might better suit the area such as red
curbs, time limit parking and so on.
2. The application fee has been modified.
• The application fee is $525.00 but we are going to request an additional $500
deposit, which will pay for staff time for extra investigations, and also for the
more complex area and more material requirements such as paint and signage.
Any unused balance of the deposit will be returned to the applicant(s).
3. The petition will be read carefully and completely before signing it.
• It has to be carefully read and staff has to make sure when the applicant comes to
us and is going to pick up the petition that we spend some time with them to
make sure they understand the process and how to present it to the
neighborhood residents and get their signatures. They will also talk about the
pros and cons of the program. The vote is final.
4. Both property owners and residents will be notified of the City Traffic
Commission meetings.
5. As soon as the Traffic Commission recommends approval a resolution will be
prepared for adoption by the City Council
• It means the CTC is pretty much the final approval of the program. The
difference that would get your approval and then would go to the City Council
for another approval.
City of Tape #CTC -34.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
• If it gets approved here the only thing staff would do is to prepare a resolution
for adoption by the City Council. Of course the City Council always has the
right to hear it separately and discuss or make changes to them.
6. The program implementation policy.
• The Neighborhood Permit Parking Program has to be the only solution for the
requested problem. As mentioned before staff will investigate other options to
mitigate the problem such as red curb, time limit parking and NO OVERNIGHT
PARKING.
7. Only single- family and duplex residences qualify for this program, no apartments
or multi-unit buildings shall qualify for the program.
8. If an area is adjacent to a K -12 school they shall not be enforced during the
morning and afternoon drop off and pick up time. So there won't be enforcement
from 7:30 am to 8:30 am and for the afternoon from 1:30 pm to 3:00 pm. This is the
result from consulting with our Police and their challenges and significant concerns.
9. A minimum of 75 %, which used to be 55% of area residents, must be in favor of
the program and sign the petition.
10.75% of all available on- street parking must be occupied to show the need for the
program. Previously it was only a majority which could be 51% and above.
11 Staff must see evidence that off - street parking including garages and driveways
are being utilized for parking. We might get assistance from our Code
Enforcement to investigate that.
12. Number of permits issued.
• Single- family residents will get 3 permits for registered vehicles only and 2
permits for guest parking. The total permits to be issued shall not exceed 5 for
the single - family,
• For the duplexes each unit get 2 permits for their registered vehicles and 2 guest
parking permits. Each unit does not exceed 4 permits.
13. Cost for the permit It is $25.00 per household and is valid one -year for renters, and
3 years for occupied residents. Due to recent discussions with the Public Works
Director and City Attorney staff we are making the one -year permit fee $9.00 instead
of $25.
c�� City of Tape #CTC -34.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
L1 I'a11 g e
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
14. Program removal policy.
• Program removal shall not be initiated until 2 years has elapsed since
implementation. Previously it was a little looser the people who did not agree
today could come back in 6 months or 1 year and request the program be
changed, so it has to be at least 2 years before it will be considered.
• 75% of the residents have to be in favor of the removal and sign the petition. The
program for removal is pretty much the same as implementation so they have to
go through the application, petitions, signatures, and the fee will be $525.
• But if an existing program area is removed any future for permit parking
implementation is subject to $525 fee and $500 deposit.
This pretty much wraps up our report, and I am happy to respond to any questions,
and also Dave Allenbach of my staff, and Sgt. Jeff Bird of the Police Dept. is here also.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
David Esparza, 468 N. Wavfield St . —We have problem parking on our street because of
the apartments behind us. There is a car parked there right now that has been there
since last week. Our trash cans get knocked over. We've got a man living in front of
the house who is 95 yrs. Our 95 yr. old neighbor comes out of the passenger side of
the car right on the sidewalk is where he tries to park and now these other people are
parking there and he has to try to get out of the car on the grass and he tripped and fell,
he uses a walker, and we had to go over and help get him up. I've tried talking to these
people to ask them not to park there for this reason and they just ignore us, they have
no courtesy for other people and we just don't get that anymore. They move our trash
cans away from the curb and they park and they knock over the cans and then there is
all kinds of litter on the street. They smoke dope in the front of the house, we don't
want to keep calling the police all the time.
Chairman Beil — Is Wayfield St. one of the areas that are on hold pending update of the
policy?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst Yes, we received a request and we notified
the person before today's meeting. I don't think she is going to be here, I think she has
to work but we have a request pending in that area between Walnut and Palm.
GYty of Tape #CTC -34.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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John Getz, 396 N. Park Ln . — I'm an ex- Orange County Deputy Sherriff so I've seen what
is going on in that area. I take issue with some of the things Amir is saying about 75%
of the street for occupancy for parking and cutting rates for the renters, as far as
permits. The fact is it doesn't matter how many people are parking on the street. I
drive a Toyota Tacoma truck, driving down the street the other day and there was a full
size pick -up truck with the toy box parked on one side and a full -size pick -up truck
parked on the other. I had 3 ft. of clearance on either side. If it becomes an issue where
fire /life safety is trying to get to somebody in trouble and there is damage to property
life or injury as a result of that truck having to detour itself, this city is liable. We've
been trying to initiate a neighborhood watch but you can't do this if you are allowing
overflow parking. How are you going to be able to pick out who doesn't belong, that
you're going to report. You're allowing these people to park on the street, they are
going to get out and look around and they will see crimes of opportunity. Not only that
they are not watching their vehicles because they are parked so far away. Now you
have a breaking and entering issue with vehicles and broken glass in the street from
where they are breaking in. If they don't find anything in the cars they are going to
look to the homes, they are going to come around. I'm driving down the street and I
cannot see around some of these vehicles, you've got neighborhood kids going around
on skateboards; they are out wearing dark clothing at night, if they are cutting between
parked cars how am I going to be able to see them. There are a lot of commercial
vehicles coming in and parking on the street. One guy has a detail shop operating out
of his house another guy has fleet vehicles and vans parked in his driveway and he is
parking his personal vehicles on the street. Those apartment complexes on Palm having
garages with lockable doors, what do you want to bet that most of those garages are full
of junk and the cars are on the street. It's the same thing with Oak St. if they have
garages they are probably utilizing them to live out of or store their stuff in and they are
not using them for parking, hence all of those cars are overflowing on our street and it
becomes our problem. You need to think about these things before you implement such
restrictive program as far as permits go. You need to be more open towards the owners
and our area, we bought a residence we didn't buy overflow parking in a commercial
area, it's not and never was intended to be a commercial area. This goes on beyond our
neighborhood, that parking lot at the old Earl's restaurant on Tustin St. that parking lot
is being used by these people now. Behind the Bank of America when I go to use the
ATM at 12:00 midnight there's vehicles parked in the lot; it's citywide.
Pamela Kaa, 144 S. Waverly St . It sounds like you are going ahead with the parking
permits which we are happy about. I'm just hoping that it can be done soon. When do
you think this might go in?
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
Chairman Beil - We're not considering implementation of any parking permit program
area tonight, we're considering the adoption of modifications to the parking permit
program guidelines, and then it will be approved by the City Council. Depending on
how we decide and then how the City Council decides and then the implementation of
that, and then there are several applications for permit parking on the waiting list
waiting for the moratorium on permit parking be lifted until the guidelines are
updated.
Pamela Kaa, 144 S. Waverly St . - We've been dealing with this for quite some time,
January 2012 was our original contact to initiate the permit parking program, and it's
just gotten worst since with a commercial person moving in on our street and now they
have just taken over so it's unsafe, unsightly, annoying and we have been really patient.
Doug Hamilton, 2044 N. Silverwood St . - I'm in the neighborhood on 1997 Greengrove,
I live just around the corner. I don't have a comparison if your requirements are either
more or less stringent but the folks that live on Greengrove starting from Meats Ave.
going south to Del Mar is not a long street but they are getting a tremendous amount of
spillover from the apartments that are just slightly to the east off Meats. I know a
number of people living on Greengrove, I'm a real estate broker in the local area, and
they talk to me about neighborhood complaints. They have been complaining for a
long time and they would like something to be done. Many of the things expressed
before me about trash cans etc., I would encourage you to make rules that people can
get something done in their neighborhoods because it looks to me like there are areas
that are more and more problems. From a real estate broker's point of view if I had to
list and sell one of those houses on that street it would affect their value because they
would have to disclose that there is a neighborhood parking problem and they can't
park in front of their own house. It affects real estate values in the City of Orange if you
have these apartment problems spilling over into the neighborhoods. If you put in
permit only sign in the Greengrove neighborhood those people are simply going to spill
over onto Del Mar and Buckeyewood and they will just have to walk a little farther.
That apartment is completely parked up every spot on the street.
Rose Cunningham - 355 N. Wayfield St . - The overflow of parking on our street is bad,
they are parking on top of fire hydrants, on the corner so you can't see out when you're
trying to turn. There was someone parked in front of our house for several nights
sleeping in his car. We've picked up broken glass, trash. People parking their work
trucks on the street for several days in a row and only move them on street sweeping
day. Our neighborhood is getting really bad and unsafe; we'd like our neighborhood to
get nacx to what It used to be.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014 1
Roger Woodruff, 2031 E. Sycamore Ave — I sympathize with the previous speakers who
have problems, we don't have that. It's quiet, very few cars and the neighborhood has
just been great for the last 10 years. We moved there to get away from parking permits,
we were in a condominium and we had parking permits, speed humps and I don't
want to see that again, at least on Sycamore. I understand the problem here on some
streets like Wayfield and Palm, they have problems because there are apartment there.
Oak St. has a multitude of apartments so if you can do anything to help them out great,
but please leave us alone on Sycamore.
Anna Laub, 295 N. Wayfield Cr . I have other concerns, there is a prostitution problem
on Tustin St. because people are pulling over to the side of the road and having sex in
the cars and when they leave they leave their used condoms, drug paraphernalia all
along the side of my house. Of just partying the loud music, I've called the Police many
times. They are out there 2 — 4 o'clock in the morning and they leave a mess on the side
of my house. There have been about 3 abandoned or stolen vehicles parked here in the
last year, and graffiti on my fence, sidewalk, and getting to be a real problems. Right
now for 3 days we've had an airport shuttle van parked there and a plumber with a
trailer parking there. At 5 am they are warming up their cars getting ready to leave
when we're finally getting to sleep after the late night curbside party. Please ask the
Police to come around more often.
Stacy Mohler, 1915 E. Mt. Vernon — We're right off Wayfield St. east of Wayfield and
Oak St. We live here and we each have vehicles. Daily we have cars parked in front of
our house, some stay the entire weekend. The people that drive these cars and park
here do not live on our street, they don't live in our neighborhood and we have
approached a couple of them and asked them to park closer to their homes on Oak St.,
they usually pretend they can't understand us. There is trash tossed out the windows
every day and of course they don't care because it's not their street. We have some
bricks in front of our front yard and a lot of time they use our bricks to make seats and
play guitars and loiter on the street next to their parked cars. They use this area for a
lover's lane and of course there are their quarrels also. We can't park in front of the
house, there's no room for our guests to park when visiting. Basically it's Oak St. that is
the problem there is so much overcrowding, we have driven on this street plenty of
times and we see people living in the garages. The garage doors will be half -way up
and we can see that the garage has been made into their dwellings. To add insult to
injury one day one of our sons had no place to park on the street so he parked in our
driveway and the car partially overhung the sidewalk and he got a $50.00 ticket because
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
we don't have room to provide parking in front of our house. Hopefully we can get
some permits.
Frances Wilson, 375 N. Wayfield St . I moved here from Tustin. I leave my house at
5:30 am to catch public transportation, we have our own parking issues at UCI, and it's
very upsetting the number of cars on the corner of Wayfield and Oak is ridiculous.
They park sideways, even business trucks such as Time Warner cable van because you
can't even get in between,. On Tuesday nights I can't put my trash cans out because I
have to wait and police until there is enough space, that is an inconvenience to me as a
working person having to get to the hospital by 6 am, I wasn't expecting I was going to
have to do that. I live next to a private business, I didn't know when I bought the house
there was going to be a car detailing shop next to me. I didn't experience that in Tustin
because it wasn't allowed. The trash is ridiculous, the diapers in the street is just awful.
I don't understand what the hold -up is in getting the policies and procedures changed.
Elaine Woodruff, 2031 E. Sycamore Ave — We have no problems on Sycamore but I
sympathize with the other homeowners. To the other people if they see this going on
just call the police. I do this on my own.
Sherri Gylon, 406 N. Park Ln . - I've seen the area go downhill really bad. There is
always a lot trash out on the street when I'm out walking my dog, diapers and what
have you. The apartments over off Park are very disturbing. I feel for the people on
Wayfield, we don't have much overflow but it's going to come because there are too
many people living there. I know there is a city ordinance about how many people can
live in a place if they're not related. But everybody is related. Stevens St. got their
parking permits after about a year so we're just a bad as that street was. I feel that if
Stevens can get permits why can't Wayfield.
Heather Carr, 376 N. Park Ln . - We do call the police, all the time. There are people
sitting out in their trucks and they are fighting with their boyfriends and girlfriends,
there was a man sleeping on the lawn next to his truck on my neighbor's lawn, the old
man who lives at the corner. I call the police so much that I feel like I'm on a first name
basis with them. I've slowed down lately because it's just ridiculous. We need permit
parking and I_can't believe it's taken us this long to try to get it and now it's being
revised again to make it more difficult for us. I have photos of diapers and other trash
all over the street; I, have photos of their cars parked around the corners so you can't
even cross the street. I don't understand, permit parking or not, isn't this against the
law to block the sidewalk. Every night, every day, all day they are like this. So now I'm
going to call the police every time I see someone parked here. I wish you would stop
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
revising it and let us submit because we've been trying to do this for almost 2 years and
it's just getting worse and not better. Now we're having break -in's to homes and cars
and I have photos of that, and it's just getting ridiculous, I'm not safe as a single mother
walking my toddler and now I feel unsafe in my neighborhood.
Sylvia Esparza, 468 N. Wavfield St . - Oak St. was always a problem before but it
seemed to. go in peaks and valleys. This has now been consistent for too many years,
too many years that we as homeowner's shouldn't have to put up with this. We pay
our taxes just like you do, and you don't want this in your backyard. Neither do we.
Who would want to live with the crime and worrying about taking a walk down the
street like this girl. I know I get afraid when I see boys, girls and men just setting in
their cars just watching everything. Looking, to see where they could break in and do
bad things. I'm not afraid of it I will write their license number but I am not going to let
them win. Just as you are elected by us we also want you to fight for us, to give us what
we need, the peace, the distinguished American City of Orange, we need that back. We
need to live where it's safe, not just a few of us but all of us, all of us taxpayers. We
depend on you for help and that's what we want. We want you to listen to us, not just
sit there but to really open your ears and listen because we are due that as American
citizens we pay for you to be here. We pay for all of you to be here, and that's what we
want from you in return, get this ball going, instead of living year in and year out with
more fear. The last time I came to one of these meetings it was disgusting because a
picture was taken of Wayfield St. when in the middle of the street there were no cars to
report but why don't you take the photos in the evening? This is all stuff that you need
to add to your resources, take the pictures during the evening when people are coming
home from work. The people who live on Oak are living in garages too, there are no
cars in there, the real estate said that it makes the property values go down and that's
true. Maybe the city ought to look into that. Maybe they should look into fining the
landlords that allow them to have all those people and cars per household.
Tohn Bivens, 340 N. Wavfield St . — My only concern with what you've said is the 75%
street occupancy of residents. If there was nobody parked there, at 2 a.m. there's no
place to park by the apartment building. If there's nobody parked on my street at 2 a.m.
by 3 a.m. there are 10 cars parked on my street. My biggest problem is people at 3 a.m.
setting their car alarms, slamming car doors, talking. It's normal stuff. At 3 a.m. if it's
just your neighbor its one thing, at 3 a.m. on my street its 15 people, and it's really
difficult to sleep.
Chairman Biel closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further
discussion and a motion.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
Chairman Beil — We're here to consider revising the parking permit program policy
tonight, not implementation of a specific requested permit parking area. I am very
familiar with the Wayfield, Oak area; I've been on this commission long enough where
we have dealt with the neighborhood on the other of Walnut in the past. We've looked
at various parking permit programs; this is one of the reasons why I believe this policy
is being revised. There has been so many of these parking permit programs where it's
been implemented on a marginal 51% previously and it doesn't work. The
neighborhood gets torn apart, they start arguing with each other, it moves the problem
to the next section. I believe staff has taken some very careful due diligence on trying to
look at the experience of other communities around Orange and in Orange County and
how they have developed parking permit program policies to find the best thing that
strikes that balance in neighborhoods when considering not only when to implement
them, but getting the neighborhood input, but also doing a little further definition on
how they conduct a study. They have included items of taking a look at the problem
- times, if the problem time is at 2 :00 a.m. I'm sure they will be going out at 2:00 or 3:00
a.m. to see what the parking condition is in those neighborhoods. I think attention is
being paid to the timing of when the problem is happening, we know it's at night, in the
middle of the night when people are coming home parking is at a premium.
Unfortunately it's also a public street. We can't control who parks in front of
everybody's houses. There are issues of density on a lot of these lower income housing
areas. Those issues of density are not in our purview, they are code enforcement issues,
and we deal with stuff in the public right -of -way out in the street, if there are safety
issues. I hear most of you are calling our officers out, they are impacted, and they have
a lot of things to look at. If you bring things to their attention they will send people out
to look at certain times, but they need to be made aware so they can routinely look
things when they go by.
I'm going to talk now about some of the notes I took and I have some questions too.
Regarding the additional $500 deposit, was there a basis on the calculation of that
figure?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer We did roughly calculate it but the actual cost on
some of the complex areas is much higher, but we didn't think that should be applied
here, so we decided not to go to the high end. That is a deposit, we're going to use it to
do more investigations at different times of the day, weekends, nights, that is how this
money is going to be used.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
Chairman Beil — I see some of the changes as far as the property owner of each address
will be notified in addition to the resident of each address, if they are different. As far
as signing the document that they have read the pros and cons, I think that is very
important, we've had so many complaints in the past when some of these parking
permit programs have come through and some people come in and say they never saw
it and they were told it meant something else and so they signed it on that premise. I
think that's a very good step. I'm trying to get that true verification, and I think that is
the best we can do to try and make sure that the people that live there and the owners
are aware of what the parking permit program means. Only single- family residences
and duplexes are qualified for the program. I would suggest a change that you give
some definition to the term duplex. Duplex runs a fine gray line to a lot of people and I
think it could be argued in court what exactly a duplex is; my suggestion is that you
define a duplex as two dwelling units on a lot. You can have apartment complexes that
are made up of a series of duplexes on one lot. That will eliminate an argument in the
future of the applicability for some of the apartment complexes which look like a group
of duplexes.
Sgt. Bird, you didn't have any issues with the enforcement around the school zones in
the morning and afternoon peak hours?
Sgt. Teff Bird, OPD, Traffic Bureau — We would prefer not to have to enforce it, it creates
safety issues for the kids and the parents trying to get their kids dropped off or picked
up around the school. Currently we have only one permit parking area that we are
aware of where we have a school that borders the permit area and creates problems for
us on a weekly basis.
Chairman Beil I want to touch back on the minimum 75% of resident's requirement.
Previously you mentioned it was 55 %. I actually think 75% is a good change,
particularly with the problems we've seen in the past of having to go back and revisit.
The percentage in favor I've found in the past permit zones that I've worked in, the 75%
deals with trying to find that fine line of how big is the permit area, because the people
farther away from the problem don't see a problem, but when you implement it the
problem starts migrating, but there is a fine line, how far will it migrate. I think the 75%
is good to give a little bit better confidence in the overall neighborhood so you don't
start a war. Demonstrating the need that 75% of available on- street spaces, how do you
determine if 75% of available street parking during the perceived problem times be
dealt with?
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Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We get a map of the area, I have an aerial
photo on it and ,I go out with a wheel. We'll subtract the driveways, existing red curbs,
any fire hydrants and any place where you really cannot park, and that leaves us with
the curb frontage and you go through and start counting out the cars that are parked
there at various times of the day. That will probably include the night. Most times
these problems occur after everyone is home from work so there will probably be at
least one or two times we'll be out there in the evening; what times those are going to is
not clear to me right now, but you just count up the number of cars on the street and
subtract it from the available curb parking and that will give you the percentage of
occupancy.
Chairman Beil — Based on input from the requestors when are the perceived problem
times?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That is correct.
Chairman Beil — This next area is a judgment area and we touched on it in some
previous parking permit areas, and that is the evidence that the off - street parking is
being utilized. There is some judgment used in that.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We're not going to look in anybody' garage,
unless the door happens to be up when we go by. Certainly when you are going by and
you see a car parked in the driveway then you know they are utilizing their driveway,
whether they have one or two cars on it, whatever the driveway can hold. In a sense
the residents are trying to get their cars out of the way so you can determine that the
vehicles that are on the street, if it's an unusually high level of on- street parking then
you can get an idea that maybe the demand is coming from outside the area.
Chairman Beil — The number of permits, we have the 3 permits for single- family
residences/households with 2 permits for visitors; it boils down to 5 permits for the
house. The duplex will receive a total of 4 permits. Could there be any challenge in
treating a duplex differently than a single- family residence as far as the number of
permits? Or is that based on a code?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — That restriction has not been changed from the
existing program. We have never had a challenge on it.
Denah Hoard, Asst. City Attorney — This is a policy and if there is a particular request
or need that is shown we can make adjustments.
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Chairman Beil — That's all the comments and questions that I had. I'll just say that
overall I think staff did a good job. I know the moratorium has not been in effect that
Tong. Beyond that I'll say that some of these parking permit programs take quite a bit of
investigation to put all the details together, do the surveys, and send out letters to
affected residents.
Commissioner Glasgow — When you decide on the deposit on the number of man hours
it will take, is there a set rate on that sheet that shows a rate for man hours? In the event
it was questioned would it be documented on their forms how it was calculated to the
amount of the deposit that was used?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — At this time there is not but if it gets approved
we will prepare forms that show the hours listed and the hourly wages, materials and
so on.
Chairman Beil — I think the $500 deposit on top of their application fee is much needed
based on what I see. Parking permits work in some of these high - density problem
areas. I've seen it work over the years myself. I've seen a few communities that have
flip- flopped back and forth and had little neighborhood wars over the permit parking.
That is unfortunate it can be handled by communicating in the neighborhood. Having
staff do a little more effort up front, having to prepare and make sure the issues are well
vetted, that the is are crossed and the i's are dotted is well worth the effort.
Denah Hoard, Asst. City Attorney — I'd like you to understand that this deposit scenario
is identical to the situation that you see in the Planning Commission submittals, and the
city is well versed in identifying how long and how to charge for investigations.
Commissioner King — Mr. Chairman and I graduated from Orange High School, so we
are all old time residents of Orange. I got out of high school in 1957 so you can figure
out where I am. The parking problem gets worse all time, I don't know where we're
going to go with all of that. Jerry Brown wants high speed rail, I don't think that is
going to work, I don't think it is going to help you. I would suggest that all of you
make sure that you talk to your neighbors and your friends in the area so that they
know what is going on. As the Chairman mentioned, in the past these things were
passed on as parking permits and people would come in and say they didn`t know
anything abut that and were did that come from. We're here, the 3 of us, a couple of
guys didn't make it tonight they had other commitments, but we're telling staff to write
a resolution for the Council to judge. The Council is going to have to make the hard
ll}.�,Cityof Tape #CTC -34.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
lJ ra11 g C
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission March 12, 2014
judgment, it's a hard question and there is no easy answer. Now these guys, there are
just 2 guys on the staff, and they're going to spend hundreds of hours of looking at this
and to give us their best judgment based on the law, the legal requirements, the police
and so on. Now I will close by saying we are not elected, we are appointed and we
don't get paid, we don't even get a parking spot. So we are here because we feel
strongly about the city and we want to do the right thing, as you do. We're listening,
the Chairman made a lot of notes, made good progress asking questions, so I'm going
to leave it at that.
Commissioner Glasgow — It sounds like, especially the Waverly, Park Ln., Mt. Vernon
areas you guys will pretty much have that 75 %. It sounds like you are pretty well
organized on how to go about doing this. We've had some problems in the past where
petitions have circulated and had signatures on them, but they didn't do the proper
thing and we had other people come back saying they didn't know that it was going to
do this, and was going to cause them grief. That's one of the reasons for these changes;
we don't want to have it come back because now your neighborhood is split because
they didn't understand the whole process. Let us get this over to the City Council and
if you want to come to that meeting and also speak either way on it, and then it will
come back to us and at that time your applications will be processed. It's probably
going to be a few more months before it will come back before us as a specific request.
Make sure you are organized and make sure everybody is on the same page with the
vote.
Chairman Beil — What is the last permit area, how many do we have?
Amir Farahani; City Traffic Engineer — We have just finished Area T.
Chairman Bei1 I invite you after the meeting, staff has a little GIS plot of the city and
all of the parking permit areas, locations of the schools and everything for our
information.
Commissioner Kin ? — How many of these do you have? Will you have it on- line? If
you want to look at the map get with staff and get this map.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Not yet, we just prepared it. We can put it on-
line.
c�.V � GYty of Tape #CTC -34.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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Chairman Beil — We've got a few copies and after, the meeting you are invited to come
up and look at them. If you're curious as to how many permit parking areas there are
around the city it's pretty astounding. It goes all the way back to 1986.
ACTION: Accept staff recommendations and forward to the City Council for final
approval.
MOTION: Glasgow
SECOND: King
AYES: Beil, Glasgow, King
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
End of Consideration Items
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month:
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VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations,
the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday -April 9, 2014
Respectfully submitted,
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
12then@citvoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
ran City ofd g Tape #CTC -34.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Public Works Department Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is a ppreciated.
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