11-08-2014 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: October 8, 2014
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present — Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, W. King, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Absent — Commissioners: None
Present — Staff: A. Farahani, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, P. Then
Audience of 18
C. Approval of Minutes
1. August 13, 2014
ACTION: Approved as published.
MOTION:
Glasgow
SECOND:
Lebeau
AYES:
Beil, Glasgow, King, Lebeau
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Vaughan
2. September 10, 2014
ACTION: Approved as published.
MOTION: Vaughan
SECOND: Glasgow
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
City of
ran z°
Public Works Department � March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC/2014 Minutes] O Printed On Recycled Paper
Paize 12
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the removal of a handicapped parking space on the 100 block of N.
Fir St.
Julio A. Ortiz
149 N. Fir St.
Orange CA 92868
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. There
was no discussion of this request.
ACTION: Approved the requested removal of this handicapped parking
space on the 100 block of N. Fir St.
MOTION:
Beil
SECOND:
Glasgow
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
City of
)rang
Public Works Department
2�7 March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] 0 Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 13
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS — Continued
2. Request for installation of a STOP sign at the intersection of Maplewood St. and
Everett Pl.
Ky Kyler
822 N. Maplewood St.
Orange CA 92866
Tohn Manahan, 933 E. Everett Pl — I was quite delighted to receive the letter
notifying us of the requested STOP sign, we sit out on our front porch and I don't
think I've ever seen that much traffic on our street especially down the street
toward Cambridge. I've had several occasions where I've had close calls myself
and so has my wife because as you go east on Everett you will slow down
because on many occasions I have seen cars on Maplewood going south at a high
rate of speed and they don't even slow down and the same way on Everett. They
really speed down that street and I wish they would put in a STOP sign there.
It seems to me the cross - gutters are a natural slow down for traffic on
Maplewood do you think two (2) STOP signs on each of the gutters will work to
slow traffic?
John Manahan — I think 2 STOP's would probably be adequate to slow them
down. The high rate of speed seems to be the cars coming down Maplewood St.
and there is a little bit of a gutter there at Everett Pl. but it doesn't seem to slow
them down too much.
Robert Slagle, 1012 E. Everett Pl . — I understand the traffic volumes and the traffic
going east and west seem to be at a higher rate of speed and a lot of times in the
evenings and the mornings the speed going north and southbound on
Maplewood cars really tend to bottom -out and that makes me jump up in the
evening when you hear them bottom out. If not a STOP sign something else to
slow the traffic down would make it safer.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the
Commission for further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — From both speakers I heard the issue of speed, the one issue
with speed, that STOP signs are not used to control speed, they are used to
control the right -of -way and the access at the intersection. There is no history of
problems that I see in this area. Also I've learned over the years that when STOP
signs gone in the neighbors come back and complaining about the stopping, the
City of
?rang A.
Works orks Department
� March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] � Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 14
acceleration and all the noise of accelerating away from the STOP signs. I grew
up a block and a half away from this area so I'm real familiar with the area. We
have these conditions all over the City, I think over the years, you can see that
south of the Circle is the intersection of Rose and Maplewood and you can see
that is a 4 -way STOP and just north of the Circle there is a 4 -way STOP at
Mayfair so essentially going north -south on Maplewood you already have some
STOP restrictions fairly close in proximity to Everett Pl. There are a number of
intersections off of California St. and some others off of Maplewood that are not
STOP controlled either, either 3 -leg intersection of full 4 -way intersections.
Commissioner Glasgow — In my travels I'm up and down the streets all day long,
I think Mayfair is more of your thoroughfare than is Everett and Maplewood is
stopped all the way through, there are 2 sets of STOP signs that keep people
from doing it, so if they are starting at Rose and they are hitting the street at a
high rate of speed they are really on the gas. Maybe one car or maybe two, I
can't see everybody doing that in a residential neighborhood. I suggest we
accept staff's recommendation.
Commissioner Lebeau — I'm very sensitive to speed in residential neighborhoods
and I'd like to possibly suggest some additional enforcement in that area to try to
get people to slow down.
Sgt. Teff Bird, OPD Traffic Bureau — Cambridge and Lincoln are the one's we're
on all the time. North and south streets in that area are the ones that we find are
trying to avoid Tustin St. and the intersection of Tustin and Chapman. This
week we have the radar trailer out on Lincoln just south of Everett and we've
had enforcement on the evening and morning hours on Lincoln and we're
always on Cambridge. He's correct Mayfair is the thoroughfare, Everett doesn't
go through to Tustin, and Mayfair is the one that goes through to Tustin and
goes all the way to Cambridge, so Mayfair is the one that gets all the traffic.
ACTION: Denied the requested installation of a STOP sign at Maplewood St.
and Everett Pl.
MOTION: Glasgow
SECOND: King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
City of
rang
pu A
blic Works Department �y March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] ro Printed On Recycled Paper
Paize 15
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS — Continued
3. Request for the installation of red curb markings on Cambridge St. on both sides
of the west leg of Adams Ave.
Raymond Barrett
726 E. Adams Ave.
Orange, CA 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Janet Zimmermann, 736 E. Adams Ave — The red curb that is on Cambridge at the
moment, the previous owner who no longer lives in the area painted that red curb
because he could not back out of his driveway safely, it wasn't something the City
did. The other issue regarding sight is the traffic on the weekend for the soccer
people goes all the way past my house (5th from the corner). I'm not sure which
weekend you were there watching but there is traffic that goes half way down our
street so it's pretty crowded on that corner. When you get to the corner there are
bushes on the right side and you cannot see until you half the way out into the
intersection before you can see around them and this is a street with a lot of
speeding. I think it would be appropriate to remove those trees, several of my
neighbors and I have called and asked for those trees to be removed but nothing has
been done. The crosswalk has reflectors on it you waited until a kid got hit before
putting the reflectors on that corner we have been asking for some sort of a flashing
light, a hit the button light for crossing people only. Not until this boy was hit in the
crosswalk did we finally get the little reflectors on that street corner. I would hate to
see that another accident has to happen before something is done about the traffic
and the visual problems we have on that corner and I've lived there for 18 years.
Commissioner Lebeau — You mention a child pedestrian was hit at that intersection
before the lights were put in. Do you recall how long that was?
Tanet Zimmerman — About 3 or 4 years ago. It was a young boy, he wasn't seriously
injured and he was on a scooter. We've had the speed humps on our street although
they still speed severely. There are now 18 kids living on this street.
Cit of
rang A.
Public Works Department L�7 March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] 10 Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 16
Raymond Barrett, 726 E. Adams Ave. - Yes the problem is only on Saturday's, yet
it's only soccer, and yes they come all the way down the street and this photograph
is from this last Saturday (Oct. 4th) both sides. Yes it's a minor problem and nobody
has been hit but the reason I introduced this is because if there is someone too close
to the intersection they're not going to be cited if they're 5 feet, they should. It's
partially_ illegal parking they start creeping toward the intersection, if they are raised
trucks you pull out onto Cambridge completely blind. I guess I could go the other
but my dentist is right there on Cambridge and I don't really like to be told I have to
go all the way around, my daughter's music teacher is right there at the music place
on Adams, there is a grocery store, I could go the other way to avoid it but I thought
it would be a better idea to maybe get the cars out of the there. There is a lot of
traffic. It's because Adams is at an angle, it's partially down, I know there are some
bushes at the house on the right, I don't know if you have the right to tell him to cut
them but they are kind of in the way too.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - What if it was only one car length? Going southbound
on Cambridge.
Raymond Barrett - Yes, even if it was one, it was just in the legal you can't park
within 15 ft., it was event just that plus 5 ft. would help. They are all fighting for
spots and they creep in.
Elaine Skinner, 910 E. Adams Ave - Cambridge is street that they speed on
constantly, it's posted 25 MPH, it's only posted right as you come off Katella Ave.
and right at you go northbound off Collins Ave., there are no other posted signs.
I've talked to people in the neighborhood and think its just 25 mph when there are
children present so I think there should be more signs on that street to try and slow
some of the people down. The man living at the corner of Cambridge and Adams
(837) needs his parking spot he couldn't be here tonight but he asked that they not
paint that red.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I was very curious, you've spoken to him, he does not
want any more red curb?
Elaine Skinner - Especially in front of his house, he's approx. 87 years old and it
would inconvenience him a lot. If you make it more red sometimes they slow done
because there are parked cars there and they are afraid they might hit someone.
Somewhere next to the school they painted that red and I don't know when they did
that, it wasn't red before so now there is even less parking so the people with all
cityof
l�g A
Pubilo Works Department V�7 March 2014 [N:/rraffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] 11 0 Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 17
their gear and their children have to park so far away and cart everything and then
walk down the street where they are speeding.
1. Galisky, 919 E. Adams Ave — I appreciate these are passionate issues and they
usually brings people out on both sides. I agree with bits of what I hear from
everyone on this issue and primarily about the speeding. There is always a problem
on Cambridge St. and the soccer seems to exacerbate that issue and the concern is
also as we eliminate parking opportunities for the people that are using it on a
temporary basis, it removes them from the residents on a permanent basis and
sometimes, I have a study here that I want to submit that cites how encouraging
parking can have a calming effect on the speeds. I think that's the issue that I thing
we're dealing with here is primarily one of speeding, not so much as parking. I too
have talked to a number of residents in the area who really don't want to see any
more red curb and part of this issue; I think most of us remember when the red
curbs were added in front of the school because all of a sudden there was an
explosion of parking further up on Cambridge. I'm not sure that you would even
have people parking so far north if there were more parking available adjacent to the
fields and I know on one side they painted it red right where the fields are that
forces people to now park on the other side and then cross over. I think that creates
a safety issue. Now you have more people parking in the residential area carrying
their stuff the kids are slamming doors and running back and forth and now they
are having to cross driveways and streets and walk further to get there, and they are
there for such a short period of time having a permanent restriction for everyone
because of a temporary issue that is really related to speed would be problematic for
the residents. It would be nice to see any of the Traffic Engineer's solutions from
traffic calming solutions to solar signs that will post the speed to any number of
things that would probably be more effective than this issue. Calming the speeds
would also increase the ability for people to stop in time and probably reduce the
severity of any accidents or any near misses that would occur if the speeds were
lower people would have greater distances and I know that with the speeds on that
street being excessive at all hours that would have a big impact. I've had my whole
front yard taken out by a speeding vehicle on Cambridge that lost control, luckily I
had two police officers behind him who saw the whole thing and it make it easy for
the insurance claims. I've seen a number of issues in that area and they are always
related to speed on Cambridge, the parking situation has only made the speed
worse because it gives the illusion that the street is wider and people think they can
drive faster and it causes more of a headache for everyone. I support the Engineer's
recommendation and I appreciate your service.
`b Cityof
ratig Ow
Public Works Department E�7 March 2014 N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] ] _ Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 18
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
additional discussion and a motion.
Commissioner Lebeau - Has anyone investigated whether the red zone adjacent to
the driveway at 1102 was painted legally painted?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - I believe all the red curb along this
section of Cambridge was at one time approved by the City. As it fades perhaps the
resident went out and repainted it himself which he shouldn't have done, he should
let us know. All of these sections of red curb had been approved by the City Traffic
Commission and the City Council back years and years ago. One issue I could point
out here as you can see from the map the red curb on the east side of Cambridge
south of the crosswalk extends past what once was a house owned by the school
district, here again, initially the red curb went down about 3 ft. south of that
crosswalk and at one point the school district had asked us to put in red curb on
either side of their driveway and it went through the Traffic Commission. Again
there wasn't a usable space left so now you've got about almost 100 ft. of red curb
south of the crosswalk. Now this house is gone and I believe the driveway is no
longer needed and so this may be something that we could look at in the near future
and come back to you later to see if this area of red curb could be shortened and
then perhaps if there are any other areas further south adjacent to the school that are
no longer needed or are excessively long we could have a look at that and see if we
could shorten it so we keep the people that are using the field for soccer not only
park further away from the intersection but also park on the side of the street where
the school is that would also eliminate any pedestrian traffic going mid - block.
Chairman Biel - Did we have any communication with the resident at 1102 N.
Cambridge?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - No we have not received any
communication from them.
Vice Chairman Vaughn - How about 837?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - The resident at that address called me a
few days ago and the lady who spoke on his behalf, he reiterated that to me over the
phone that he needs the parking in front of his house.
Cityof
` Nangl A
Public Works Department E27 March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] ro Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 19
Commissioner Lebeau — Does he mean on Cambridge or Adams?
Dave Allenbach — He meant on Cambridge. There is a gate in this fence around his
house, he has two driveways, both are gated, when he backs out these are not
electric fences, they don't roll, he has to back out, park on the street then get out and
close the gate behind him. To remove parking on the front of his house, I believe he
felt that we were going to remember all the parking in front of his house but he
needs some space.
Chairman Beil — The proposed plan on the site sketch just shows between his
southerly driveway and the curb return.
Dave Allenbach — The southerly driveway is about 22 ft. north of the intersection.
The intersection sight distance ordinance requires a minimum of 30 ft. of red for a 25
MPH speed limit. On the north side of the street we can use the 22 ft. and then the
width of his driveway to get that 30 ft.
As a few of the resident have noted, while we were not here on the weekend we
were here during soccer practice which was late in the afternoon. While there was a
high demand for parking along Cambridge it did not extend north of Adams. This
would leave at least one space for him between his two driveways and another
space just to the north of this driveway. The northerly driveway actually feeds into
not his garage but also an RV garage.
Commissioner King — The lady spoke that we need more signage and people would
slow down. The City has installed all kinds of electronic expensive speed signs on
LaVeta Ave. and the sign says 25 MPH When Children Are Present. I go through
there and I'm trying to stay under 30 MPH and there are people passing me, I'm
sure they are doing 80 mph, all the time. They pay no attention to these signs, it
makes no difference. I'm sure you must have spent $30,000 on electronic signs that
say slow down, slow down, it doesn't do a bit of good. The only thing that will do
any good is if you park out there about a month every day and write tickets and I'm
sure you'd get a fist full every day, maybe that would help. I'm sorry to say that the
signs don't work very well.
Commissioner Lebeau — I notice you propose a 42 ft. red zone south of the
intersection. Isn't that a little bit long for a 25 mph speed limit area?
`g City of
rang
Public Works Department
2!7 March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] 1 4 P Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 110
Dave Allenbach - The reason for the 42 ft., going back to our intersection sight
distance ordinance with minimum length of 30 ft. it wouldn't leave a useable space
left here but it would be long enough to look like it was a useable space and we
don't want to see somebody try to fit into this space and overhang the red curb and
then get cited for that. In this particular case if this request were to be approved 42
ft. would make it easier for enforcement.
Chairman Beil - We've approved zones less than 30 ft. in the past.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I went by there and if you take the natural respectful
distance from the inside of somebody's driveway I believe it's probably 22 ft.]
Chairman Beil - What is the length of the typical parking space?
Dave Allenbach - An end stall is 20 ft. and middle stall is 24 ft. and the difference is
that if you are in the middle you get that extra 2 ft. to maneuver back and forth to
move out into the lane of traffic.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I was driving my Fort Taurus and I couldn't figure out
how anybody unless they drove a Smart Car would want to try to get into that little
area anyway without the front of your car protruding into the crosswalk. I feel that
it's very dangerous and you have to be in the lane in front of the residence before
you see something coming and given the small area of the particular spot at 837 and
the concerns of the residence... I would wonder if we could play with the existing
red curb on Cambridge on the far side and move that forward a little bit and free up
that space and cut down the 42 ft.
Chairman Beil - I think staff mentioned that they could take a look at that red curb
on the northbound side of Cambridge I think they still want to allow some vision
zones for the crosswalk to be able to see when cars are coming. I think that could
probably be shortened quite a bit. Last month we actually denied some additional
driveway red curb on Cambridge south of this. My concern is the guy who lives at
1102 Cambridge St. Even though it's not their parking it's a public street parking
we're taking away everything in front of their house essentially.
Commissioner Lebeau - I'm of a like mind with Vice Chairman Vaughan and I was
thinking 30 ft. and then perhaps removing some of the red curb north of the
driveway to allow for an individual car.
g City of
rang ow
PobIPo Works Department 2:�7 March 2014 N:/rraffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] ] _ Printed On Recycled Paper
Paae Ill
Chairman Beil - Do you know what the length on the existing red curb on the north
side of the driveway at 1102?
Dave Allenbach - Yes, it's about 20 ft.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - So if 10 ft. of the existing and move the proposed section
10 ft. from the crosswalk to keep the sight distance for the residents.
Commissioner Glasgow - I have a circular driveway but a lot of time I will have to
back up and ..... park in there. If you ever have to back out onto a busy street and
you don't have the sight at 20 ft., he needs that 20 ft. to see down Cambridge to see if
anybody is going to hit him, and that's the side that is going to hit him first. If you
shorten that to 10 ft. and you put a car there or you put a bigger vehicle there he's
not going to be able to see down Cambridge to back out of his driveway.
Chairman Beil - I think a lot of us were thinking along the same lines we were trying
to figure how to save one space on that southbound side in front of 1102 but I'm not
sure we'll be able to.
Commissioner Glasgow - Have staff go back and look at Cambridge The west side
of Cambridge has a lot of red curb and it sounds like the problem that they have is
coming from Yorba and California on the soccer park ..... can we relook at the red
curbs existing see if they are really necessary and if they're not maybe remove stuff
closer to the school so they could park closer to the school. That house has been
gone almost a year now, maybe relook where that house is and get that back down
to a 30 - 40 ft. sigh view from the crosswalk and which would relieve 50 ft. of
parking space.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - As we were reviewing the requests it came to
our mind that maybe there is excessive red curb in the area so we are going to look
at the records we have for the history and see, especially on the east side, if there is
any excessive amount of red curb that is unneeded and then we can bring it back to
you at one of our future meetings and see if we can return those parking areas to the
street.
Chairman Beil - I drive that route regularly and believe me I don't know what it is
the new soccer season but there are more cars than I have ever seen, I see them
going down Adams, I'm actually surprised the amount of people they have there
right now on the weekends.
`t' City of
Jrang A.
Public Works Department 2!7 March 2014 N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] ] 4 Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 112
Denah Hoard, Asst. City Attorney — This was a World Cup year.
Chairman Beil — It was and there is a big interest in soccer.
Commissioner Glasgow — I also think taking out that house added a lot more square
footage grass area for soccer; that was a big piece of property right in the middle of
the field.
Chairman Beil — There was a big change because Yorba finished their expansion,
they removed all the temporary buildings they had soccer field so there is expanded
field space.
ACTION: Deny the staff recommendation, approve the installation of the
red curb as proposed in the site sketch, and also have staff review
the existing red curb both northbound and southbound from
Adams all the way Cambridge to see if there is anything that can
reasonably be removed and return to us at our February 2015
meeting.
MOTION: Beil
SECOND: King
AYES: Beil, King, Lebeau, Vaughan
NOES: Glasgow
ABSTAIN: None
End of Consideration Items
Commissioner King announced his resignation from the Traffic Commission effective
immediately, and expressed his appreciation to other members of the Commission and
staff, and that he thoroughly enjoyed his experience serving the City in this capacity.
l City of
�rax�g A.
Public Works Department Et7 March 2014 N:/rraffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] ] # Printed On Recycled Paper
Page 113
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations,
the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - November 19, 2014
Respectfully submitted,
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen @cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
g City of
rang ow
puttkc Works Department V�7 March 2014 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2014 Minutes] 11 4 Printed On Recycled Paper