11-19-2014 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: November 19, 2014
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present — Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Absent — Commissioners: None
Present — Staff: A. Farahani, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, P. Then
Audience of 18
C. Approval of Minutes
1. October 8, 2014
ACTION: Approved as published.
MOTION:
Glasgow
SECOND:
Lebeau
AYES:
Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau, Vaughan
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
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IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of an "All -Way" STOP control at the intersection of
Cambridge St. and Trenton Ave.
Jennifer Holland
918 E. Trenton Ave.
Orang, CA 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Sue Tensen, 918 E. Trenton Ave - (In Favor) - I know you have only recorded
two accidents in the last couple of years, I also know not all accidents are
recorded. Since I have lived here I have been very upset with the amount of the
cars racing, coming around that corner, I've seen approx. 5 accidents myself. I've
seen a couple of cars in her yard and we little kids and we have to be very careful
about letting them out in the front yard. This particular request has been an
ongoing request for 15 -20 years I think it really important to get this STOP sign
in, something to slow down this traffic. It's really scary.
Jennifer Holland, 907 E. Trenton Ave - I've had my fence torn down twice and
the last time it was the 25th of November, the day before Thanksgiving 2011, it
took me 2 months for the insurance company to settle the claim so I could get a
new front wall put up, and remove all the garbage out of my front yard. I've
almost been hit in my yard; it's not a pleasant thing.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion
Chairman Beil - I really think we need to follow the MUTCD standards for
warrants on STOP signs. Furthermore, I just want to remind everyone that a
STOP controlled intersection is to assign right -of -way; it is not really there to
control speed. The staff reports that the accidents were rear -end type, the
configuration because people turning left have to stop in the #1 lane and its
noted in the staff report that STOP controlled intersections will increase the
instances of rear -end collisions.
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Vice Chairman Vaughan - I'd like to know from staff if there were any other
alternatives to speed control considered for that intersection? Or prior to the
intersection because it seems like if I'm hearing correctly that the problem is
people coming off Katella at a high rate of speed into a narrow section and it
creates a hazard, so I'm wondering if there were alternatives considered in the
proposal.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - We have looked at other alternatives. By
looking at the posted speed limit, which is 35 mph, and the 85th percentile is not
much higher than 37.2 mph which is not significantly higher than what is posted.
Due to the geometries and being kind of curvy at beginning north of Katella
there is not much that can be done. We took a look at the posted speed limit
signs to see if there was a deficiency. There is a bike like that needs that needs to
be upgraded to provide a little more confined and channelized traffic calming,
we will take a look at that to see if there is mitigation.
Chairman Beil - We had requests in the past for speed humps on Trenton and
the issue in the neighborhood and on Trenton itself was speed, people coming
both east and west. I don't believe they met warrants of the speed hump
program approved by the Council. We had requests on the east side in the past.
Commissioner Glasgow - That would have been between Cambridge and
Glassell, I think these addresses are on the east side of Cambridge so the west
side is where the humps would go because that's a continuous street between
Cambridge and Glassell.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I would like to hear from the Police Dept. we heard
reference maybe about some unreported accidents as well as reported and I'd
like to hear his opinion if perception of the people who would be in a position to
enforce it of a problem with speed in that area and if he has any knowledge of
additional accidents that may not have been officially taken as police reports.
Sgt. Teff Bird, OPD Traffic Bureau - We did a records check to verify that what
Traffic Engineering had was accurate, there were only 2 reported traffic collisions
for that particular intersection in the last 3 years. However, like any location in
any city there are unreported accidents that we don't know about. It's very
likely that there are some unreported accidents at that particular intersection. As
far as speed is concerned, the curve coming from Katella has actually had a
calming effect on traffic, it generally slows traffic down. However, after they
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come out of that curve it comes into a more open area and that's when they start
to accelerate out of the curve. A lot of time people misperceive speed for the
sound of acceleration. Yes, there is always going to be a speeding vehicles on a
roadway at any given time, however, studies on the street show that the 85
percentile of the vehicles is 37.5 mph. I'm sure there are vehicles that do speed
time from time to time we sit on Trenton at Shaffer for the STOP sign violations
we also sit up at Chestnut and Cambridge. Chestnut is used as a thoroughfare
which is just north of that location, they like to use it as a bypass from Tustin to
Cambridge and sometimes all the way to Glassell. We work that for speed, and
then we go up to Taft and Cambridge and we work speed, anybody coming
northbound for speed also.
ACTION: Denied the requested installation of an "All -Way" STOP control,
but have staff meet with area residents to investigate other traffic
calming measures that might be considered on Cambridge between
Katella and Taft.
MOTION:
Glasgow
SECOND:
Vaughan
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
2. Request for installation of red curb markings on the north side of LaVeta Ave.
west of the private driveway serving the Creekside Estates Mobile Home Park at
1925 E. LaVeta Ave.
Joy Nagel, Regional Manager
Santiago Communities, Inc.
PO Box 11927
Santa Ana, CA 92711
Commissioner Glasgow Where does the private property start on that driveway
and where does City property end?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — Generally it's the back of the sidewalk.
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Joy Nagel 1925 E. LaVeta Ave., Apt. #1 — I brought some additional photos that I
had taken regarding this matter. I moved into the complex in late June when I
took over as Regional Manager for that particular location and have monitored
the parking that is like this. There are also photos of people who actually park
their car in front of the handicap sidewalk access, in which I was told I could call
and turn them in every single time they did that to have them ticketed and then
have them towed from the front of the sidewalk crosswalk. I did that, I had to
wait 10 minutes to get them on to the line to even take the information to come
out and cite the vehicles. Most of the time the vehicles are parked 3 ft. closer to
the sidewalk ramp so if someone in a electric wheelchair tried to go down that
handicap ramp they could not do it. That was one of the reasons beyond the fact
that they are parking in our driveway it that they were blocking handicap
accessibility. Part of those pictures are at night and the visual hazard to get out
turning right you are almost into the oncoming traffic from your left to even be
able to make a right turn.
Chairman Beil — As far as it being a private drive I didn't see how this park had
parking signed on that stretch of road that comes out.
T oy Nagel — There is probably half -way in between where this photo ends on the
right hand side to where our entry gates are. There is a sign that says NO
PARKING SUBJECT TO TOWING. We use permit parking there and just right inside
our gate to resolve the clustering of people entering, exiting and parking, we
eliminated that.
Tim Graham, 1801 E. LaVeta Ave (Opposed) — What section is proposed to be
painted red from this picture? Just the corner curb? We don't want the 20 ft.
Isn't is already illegal to park on that corner because of the handicap curb? So it
seems that painting it red is redundant. Hopefully people won't park there, I
would hate that, but we have such limited parking in front of Arroyo Casa
Apartments there losing that 20 ft. takes away the availability of parking by
guests and visitors.
Tim Love, 1801 E. LaVeta Ave., Apt. #122 (Opposed) — We're always concerned
there are never enough parking spaces in that area. When the bike trail was put
through in the back of our complex we lost 6 -8 parking spaces that have never
been replaced. I'm sure everybody else in the neighborhood has a parking
problem so if anything is to be done with additional red curbing and it takes
away parking something needs to be done prior to painting that area to replace
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those parking spaces, someplace, I'm not sure where that would be. One
possible suggestion there is a large dirt area right next to the LaVeta Bridge that
is all fenced off cause it's flood control. That could be paved and you could sell
parking permits to people. I'm sure some people would be happy to have
parking someplace that could be assigned. That area probably has enough room
to park another 15 cars, and its just sitting there fenced off and it can't be used.
We all understand about the handicap ramp. When coming westbound on
LaVeta from the Yorba stop light people think that's a racetrack they come up
over that bridge at least 50 mph and it's a traffic hazard. I would change the
speed limit on the east side of the LaVeta Bridge to like 25 -39 mph and I'd put
one of your electronic speed monitoring signs at the bottom of the bridge on the
westbound side and it would tell people they are exceeding the speed limit. As
pointed out there is a lot of not very good vision pulling out of those driveways
and there's a lot of people pulling out there all the time so I think that's an
additional safety factor you might want to take a look at in the future. The traffic
officers show up out there periodically they never seem to get there quite at the
right time when the speeders are there, they make their best effort but ya know
we're happy to see them when they do come out but for some reason they're not
there at the right time. So you should look at the westbound speed limit and I
really recommend one of those electronic signs like you used in the school zones
to tell people they are going too fast, there have been bad accidents there in the
past. I remember one that was probably well over 10 years ago somebody pulled
out and got hit by a Mercedes and it was a 1973 Chevy Impala and it got spun a
180 degrees, it got hit so hard. So it can happen, I think we're all aware of what
the dangers are of pulling out there but the flip side is that we need the parking.
If you can clarify what you want to do there as long as you don't' take away any
more parking.
Patrick Rausch, 1801 E. LaVeta Ave (Opposed) — I have some photos I like to
pass around. We certainly need the parking. Painting the curb red where the
handicap access is, I don't think it's going to work. The first photo shows the
parking area past the NO PARKING sign on LaVeta just past the fire hydrant on
the left and there is an open space of parking about 30 -40 yards, beyond that as
you get toward Tustin there is an area of about 60 ft. that is NO PARKING with a
posted sign. That's not working, there is a car there in photo #1 taken at 8 a.m.
The next photo shows a truck trying to get past it, you can see is well over almost
into the other lane where cars are parked. The third photo is in the middle of the
day at lunch time, there is a car well in that area, well past the NO PARKING
BEYOND THIS POINT, it's not working. The next photo is of coming out
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morning of our access area looking east of LaVeta, you can see the area that is
painted red right there, there is nobody parked in that space righg now, but
occasionally there area and they can be large trucks and even without a truck
there you can see that it blocks vision. If you take a look at the last side I've tried
to circle were cars going by and as you can see cars going by and as I fellow
Orange residents have already pointed out people come down that road
especially in the morning very fast, it's very dangerous, but even with the curb
painted red people will still park there. What would work, I think, would be
police enforcement. We've had police parked in driveway using radar to catch
speeders and that seems to be pretty effective. I think we would use those same
police officers to do parking control, I think that would be a much more effective
deterrent than painting the curb red.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I'm very familiar with this area, I live close by, I travel
LaVeta often. I believe the problem of people parking on the corners blocking
the handicap access is a valid concern and everybody in the City knows that
parking spaces being at a premium are also a valid concern. One thing I was
thinking was painted parking stalls along the curb line, it works downtown, we
rarely see people parked in between because people have a definitive area to
park and it seems like we could reserve the parking space but designate a STOP
and START parking area around that corner as well because sight distance is a
concern there. I have come down that hill and have been concerned because I've
seen drivers struggle to get out of there when cars are parked along that curb
and trying to compete with it especially in the afternoon that traffic coming off
Tustin St. trying to use that as a thoroughfare. I think everybody wants the same
thing here and maybe that might be an alternative that would work because I
have found that people obey those when they see a designated space that they
have to park in they typically use it, sometimes they go over it a little bit. As far
as red curb goes we can't control when people are going to break the law or obey
the law we can only put the restrictions down and do our best.
Chairman Beil — I thought about the stall markers too for parallel parking but
stall markers are unenforceable, they are suggestions only to the motorist so you
can straddle those, you can ignore them, as if they're not there. I would hate to
put those out there and have the City maintain on- street striping in a parking
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area where there is oil that will be on them all the time. Some of the comments I
heard were parking on the curb returns by ramps and how you enforce that/
Sgt Teff Bird, OPD Traffic Bureau - As long as the vehicle isn't blocking the access
ramp, meaning blocking it totally so if somebody who was in need of the ramp
could not get down and around the vehicle they are okay. It's not illegal to park
on a corner, it illegal to completely block the ramp and we can cite for that and
we want people to call us so we can come out. If you call us a few times then we
will mark the area as a place we need to return to until it resolves itself. So I
suggest that if anybody would like to have us come out there and enforce that
area and we may be unaware of it we can set up our parking control out there to
do so.
Chairman Beil - Mr. Rausch's photographs show some pretty blatant violations
of parking in red and of parking in signed NO PARKING zones, so there could
be some additional enforcement out there.
Commissioner Glasgow - I'd like to see the cars from behind the sidewalk
toward the gate you might want to post your NO PARKING zone closer to the
end and enforce it on your own because we can't enforce that as City, even if we
where to paint the red curb it looks like it's part of your driveway and access and
if you call someone out on the red curb we couldn't cite them because it's private
property. You have the right to tow on your private drive, so you can call the
tow company yourself because they are parked on private property and have the
vehicle towed out of that area. Along with any enforcement that we can do it
will probably alleviate a lot of the problem that you have on that curve.
ACTION: Denied the requested installation of red curb markings on the
north side of LaVeta Ave. west of the private driveway serving the
Creekside Estates Mobile Home Park at 1925 E. LaVeta Ave.
MOTION: Lebeau
SECOND: Glasgow
AYES: Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau
NOES: Vaughan
ABSTAIN: None
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3. Request for the installation of red curb markings on the north side of the
driveway serving 240 N. Shaffer St.
Ellen Kincaid
18032 Wellington Cr.
Villa Park, CA 92861
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman
Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Chairman Beil - The width of the parkway and the width of the sidewalk combined
what would you estimate that to be?
Dave Allenbach - That would be 12 ft.
Chairman Beil - IF you're coming out of the driveway with the front of your car,
assuming they're not backing out, backing out you're going to have a problem no
matter what with the fence. Coming out forward you have enough room where you
would be able to get up and see past the fence along the property line and then
you're only obstructions would be the power pole and if the shrubbery in the
parkway is too bushy or too high, and any vehicles parked.
Kirsten Krtymann, 248 N. Shaffer St . - What I was going to say is a bit moot because
the recommendation is to deny the request. The red curb would be immediately in
front of our home. The neighbor at 240 that requested the red curb has recently
mounted a campaign against my house and my family and we believe this is
another instance of them utilizing the city resources for personal gain. They have
called Code Enforcement on us, they've sent several threatening letters and I just
want to note this for the Commission.
Chairman Beil —If there was red curb does that impact parking for your residence?
Kirsten Krtymann — It does, we have a single car driveway, my husband parks
immediately in front of our home most nights. We have lots of visitors and a big
family, so those people also park in front of our home. I would like to note one of
your comments that there is enough space in the back of this property, it is all
cemented in, this is a multiple- tenant property and they all park in the back. There
is plenty of space for them to turn around and come out facing front.
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Vice Chairman Vaughan — The issue of the vegetation growth that is a factor. People
have a right to have an unobstructed view for safety reasons, I don't know how long
they have been complaining about the vegetation before it was cut and before the
City got involved so I wondered if you are prepared to keep the vegetation at a
respectable level, to respect to sight distance and being able to see above that.
Kirsten Krtymann — Yes Commissioner Vaughan. This started about August 1, 2014;
there was a significant cutting on our side of the property as well. It was said that it
was their right; the safety issue came up several months later. At the time of the
significant cutting we recommended and offered to have our garner come on to their
property as well as ours and trim it weekly, at our expense, they declined. So
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission
for further discussion and a recommendation.
Commissioner Glasgow — I just drove by this location a couple hours ago, it is down,
you can sight see through most of the fence it's a simple cut -back. Sight distance for
when you are coming out of that driveway it didn't look obscured. It didn't look
like the picture it was fairly cut back and neatly trimmed and also the foliage in the
parkway in the front in the parkway was the same.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I like the fact that she has a gardener which obviously
help maintain it because every.
Commissioner Lebeau — There is a concern that the proponent seemed to be getting
in the way of her own solution if what the homeowner who just mentioned is true
that not allowing the gardener's access to trim it I do not want to condone that.
Commissioner Glasgow — I'd like to make another comment also, it looks, legally, in
our packet from an attorney in here and it sounds like there might be some conflict
between the two neighbors that they are trying to resolve through the City and
using the City's resources to do that.
ACTION:
MOTION:
SECOND:
AYES:
NOES:
ABSTAIN:
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Denied the requested installation of red curb markings on the
north side of the driveway serving 240 N. Shaffer St.
Vaughan
Glasgow
Unanimous
None
None
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4. Request for the installation of a vision zone on the south side of Almond Ave. at
Clark St.
Barbara Horton
730 W. Washington Ave.
Orange, CA 92868
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman
Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Barbara Horton, 730 W. Washington Ave. — (Provided some photos she took). The
business that opened at 814 W. Chapman doesn't have any parking. So no they park
all on Almond Ave. You can see by my photos that they park all the way around the
corner, we can't see even to turn out to turn right. They come down Clark,
depending on which side is street sweeping day. There are cars everywhere. I don't
understand why if someone has a business they can have their employee's park in
somebody else's neighborhood; then they get on their skateboards they go down the
middle of Clark across Almond continue on down Clark to go to work. They throw
their book -bag over their shoulder, I think it's some kind of communications place,
but we have cars everywhere. We already have lot of issues with cars, we have
condos, multi - family dwellings and we have been able to deal with it but this has
gotten out of hand. We're afraid someone is going to pull out; we have to pull out
so far to get around the cars that are parked coming around our corner.
Cindi Stanton, 744 W. Washington Ave. — Also provides photos. We have such a
bad issue that our postman cannot eve find parking so he double - parks. So now we
can't even go around him because if we do we're on the opposite side of the street
and if someone were to turn onto Clark we would be in big trouble. I am in favor of
the red curb; I am also in favor of trying to limit this business to have parking in our
neighborhood. This is what is causing this problem. If you've got an extra 20
people now parking in an area that they weren't before, not to mention that we also
have a used car dealership and he has an overflow of vehicles and he parks them out
on the street. So that also takes away from the neighborhood parking. Some people
don't even go that way to get out any more because you inch, inch, inch and pretty
soon you're in the street. I just hope you take this matter into consideration, I do
want the red curb but I'm hoping we can do more.
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Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further
discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — In regard to the density of the parking from a neighboring business,
we can only deal with the actual situation, not the source of the parking. That's not
really under our authority.
Commissioner Glasgow — On that 30 ft. will that go from the handicap ramp
towards the, or does that just start after?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — If approved the red curb would go on the
end of the curb return forward 30 ft. We don't usually park in the curb return area
because you are either going to be parking across as crosswalk or blocking an access
ramp. In those cases it is redundant to paint in there, you're really not supposed to
be parking there.
Commissioner Glasgow — What is going to happen is you will get someone in a
small car that thinks they can put their car there, and you're going to have more
issues with police officers being called and summoned out there to write citations or
have vehicles moved. Adding another 15 ft. going back to the front of that ramp
may alleviate some of issues with this.
ACTION: Approved the requested installation of red curb markings on the
north side of the driveway serving 240 N. Shaffer St., and add 15
ft. of red curb to the top of the x.
MOTION:
Vaughan
SECOND:
Glasgow
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
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5. Request to remove the "NO PARKING ANYTIME" restrictions from the east side
of Old Camp Rd. from Heatherview Ln. to the cul -de -sac.
Traffic Engineering Division
Public Works Department
CITY OF ORANGE
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil — Could you repeat the number of times you have been requested for
special event to waive the parking restriction?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — I regularly receive requests for that and since
I have started logging that beginning 5 -6 months ago I have received 5 requests in
that time, and you constantly communicate that with Sgt. Bird, because we don't
have the staff to go and bag the signs and it's mostly on the weekend so we let the
police know not to enforce and that sometimes creates a little confusion for the Park
users who see our vehicles parking when they see signs that say "NO PARKING ",
that's one of the reasons we want to do this.
Chairman Beil — In regards to the increased amount of parking in Peter's Canyon
Regional Park, what are they currently charging for parking now?
Dave Allenbach — I believe they charge $3. It's a very nominal fee.
Commissioner Lebeau — Who initiated this request?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — It comes from us. Working with the PD we
realize that's creating some ambiguity for the Park users or other people who see
other vehicles are parking under the signs saying "NO PARKING ALLOWED ", and
because they have no idea that PD allows that.
Sgt. Teff Bird, Traffic Bureau, OPD — We have received a number of requests from
the community inside the condo complex to be able to park in that partivular area
for special events. It has created some problems for the PD, a lot of times these
requests are not very far out, they are more of a last- minute kind of thing and yes
there's not enough staff members to go out and bag signs so the request comes to us
to just not enforce. The problem the PD has is that I'm the traffic unit and it's easy
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for me to tell the 9 people I have working for me to not go out on that particular day;
however, I've got the entire patrol that is not under my purview that I have to
somehow get message to, to not go out and enforce that particular area for the signs
that are out there which then leads to citations being issued if they didn't get the
briefing memo because they had to go 10 -8 real quick because of an emergency in
the field that evening. Then I end up having citations that I have to go back through
and potentially void and take care of, so the ambiguity of it being posted "NO
PARKING" the fact that the City is on occasion allowing this community to park
because they don't have enough parking inside their facility whether that is their
problem or not, it's still being allowed, creates a problem for PD. The way we look
at it is if it's posted "NO PARKING" it should stay "NO PARKING ".
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion:
Tames Sladack, 8522 E. Baker Hill Rd. #E — In Favor. It's a $3 parking fee over in
Peter's Canyon Park, I use it a lot. The community center is right at the edge of the
cul -de -sac, it's 100 ft. in, and because of that it spikes at times if you have a baby
shower or a birthday party, that's why they need some additional relief. I walk in
the park and I go in there twice a day with my dog there's no reason not to have
additional parking there. It does alleviate spill -over parking from the condo
complex which has been enforcing parking quite rigorously the last 6 month. I
endorse your approval.
Tudith Coletta, 129 N. Cross Creek Rd., #A — Opposed. [Notice had incorrect sticker
on the outside of the envelope.] We got the parking issue cleared up a few years
back and it would be nice if we could leave the restrictions as they are because we
have an encroachment problem from Peter's Canyon made up of a walking group,
bicycling group meet there on Saturday, and if they don't come in at that end of the
complex they come in at the other and I've seen them come in and park at our
parking lot and walk around the corner. We always have to deal with that.
Kristen Warren, 8556 Deershire Ct. — Opposed. [Notice had incorrect sticker on the
outside of the envelope.] I am a resident of a single house that is adjacent to this, I'm
part of the committee that organized and initiated this request in 2011. Peter's
Canyon is the reason people are parking there, so even if you open it up to the
condo residents the Peter's Canyon attendees will be the people that will park there,
they don't want to pay the $3 so in addition they leave their trash in the vicinity,
water bottles, and I feel there are safety issues. Not only do I walk in that area and I
know the residents of that area I have teenage children that I'm just comfortable
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enough now to let them wander with their bikes in that area, and we have people
who don't treat the neighborhood in the same way. The people that benefit from
having parking in that area would be the people from the condo and my
understanding is because within the condo area, and my understanding is that the
reason this is coming up now is that the people in the condo, or at least the
association is really coming down on their parking rules. I'm not sure why that has
to affect that area. I don't see any of my neighbors in this meeting and when I asked
around nobody had opened that envelope.
Tody Linneman, 262 Fairfield Ln. — Opposed. [Notice had incorrect sticker on the
outside of the envelope.] I would like the Commission to leave the parking policy as
is. I think it is a safety concern. I have lived in the community for 15 years and I
lived there when parking was allowed, it's much different now, it's much more
pleasant and I feel a lot safer now. I think that in our community we have parking
permits required and I think for special events or for visitors you can get special
parking permits.
Ivor D'Souza, 236 S. Grisly Canyon Dr., Unit #T — Opposed. [I didn't receive a
notice.] I was hoping to speak after Kathy, she submitted the letter and she covers a
lot of the stuff that I did not write down. This is a huge problem. People talked
about the problems 2 years ago when we asked for the NO PARKING signs, we
went through a whole list of reasons why we were looking for that. Taking down
the NO PARKING signs is a drastic solution for a problem that occurs maybe 5% of
the time. We talked about 5 requests, that's about 2 -3 hours on a weekend through
the whole year. The other 95% of the time is when the people from the Park come
over and do all these nasty things. There is a safety aspect too, we have 386 units in
this complex and about half leave and come in from the top end and the other half
come in from the lower end, roughly. So when they leave in the morning and come
back in the evening there is a lot of traffic on that little side street. When the people
from the park come when they park over there, there is something about the
bicyclist's they will get their bike ready and they will start circling the street waiting
for their other riders to get ready, they do not pay attention to any other traffic, there
are a lot of close calls, never an accident but a lot of close calls. If something goes
wrong that street is theirs. My thought is that for the few times that somebody
needs to park on that side why doesn't our association hand out little permits that
they can put on their dashboard so that you don't have to come and bag the signs
and have to enforce things. If they are parked there when enforcement comes
around they will see the tags and they will know what it's about. For the other 95%
of the time my balcony is about 20 ft. from the street diagonally and when they come
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in at 6 a.m. and the doors and trunks start slamming and the alarms go off and
people are yelling out to their buddies across the street. It's very quite at 6 a.m. and
even normal voices are quite loud and it's terrible. You have to live facing Old
Camp to realize how bad it is, it's not a problem for people who don't live facing
there.
Rossana Fernandez, 8636 E. Sugarload Peak Rd., #D — In Favor. We did used to have
open parking t the end of the cul -de -sac for quite some time and that really helped
with the overflow. There is a very large clubhouse and pool so during 3 -4 months
through the summer there are people visiting there and there are lots of people
coming in. There is no visitor parking in the complex, all of the spaces are marked
with numbers and when visitors come in they start yelling where should I park?
And the tenants have to tell them we don't have visitor parking, just park anywhere
you want the numbers don't mean anything. The reason they numbered the spaces
is so we could control things but we really have no visitor parking at any of the
facilities or any of the parking. I think if we were allowed to have 12 -13 parking
spaces that would alleviate any requests for the city to relieve parking. I am one of
the people who submitted a request for the suspension of the NO PARKING on Old
Camp Rd. for a party recently, I had a 50 people coming to the clubhouse for an
event, I called the City, he helped me with my request, but I had to call 3 different
departments to try to figure out how I could achieve this. The condo complex
doesn't want to be involved, so luckily I'm having 25 cars coming and there is no
place for these people to park.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Do you have a homeowner's association there?
Rossana Fernandez — Yes.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Have they ever, as a group addressed the non - visitor
parking situation inside the complex?
Rossana Fernandez — We have a tremendous issue right now with parking. They
issued a parking permit and they are forcing people to park in their garages. They
number the spaces but they don't assign those, it's just a trick so the people coming
in from Peter's Canyon not to park there, but they are not assigned parking spaces.
The whole complex struggles with parking issues.
Commissioner Glasgow — The numbered spaces are they being towed out of there or
is the association allowing people to park there during the day?
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Rossana Fernandez — You can park there during the day. If you park outside in the
numbered spaces overnight you have to have a placard so if I have a visitor staying
with me I actually have to call and list the vehicle and let them know that they are
visiting for the evening so their car doesn't get cited.
Kathie Kudlo, 8636 E. Sugar Loaf Peak Rd., #N — I was angry when I got that letter
but I'm even angrier now hearing all of these crazy comments people are making.
I'm the one who wrote the semi -novel and Kristen is the other person besides myself
who is most affected by all this, because at the very end of the cul -de -sac the
building that is sitting right there are condos are immediately facing the street so
we're getting the brunt of this so us being single - family I think there is a huge safety
concern there. I didn't know if you want me to read down through all this but I
think there are a lot of points that I feel should be made that I feel have been
addressed incorrectly. [Ms. Kudlo reads her list of main concerns from her letter
dated Nov. 19, 2014, copy attached.] 1) Noise at all hours of the day and night,
people talking, slamming card doors.; 2) Trash in the streets; water bottles and food
containers.; 3) Undisposed doggie baggies; 4) Hikers and bikers changing clothes in
the open; 5) Loss of revenue for Peter's Canyon Park. 6) Extra traffic on the street
leading people into our community; 7) Potential for the public to daringly attempt to
park in spots in the condo community. 8) Since it's not a gated community I fear the
general public will wander into the grassy areas with their pets, which opens our
community up to inspection and possible trash and loitering.
Due to the recent installation of parking permits within the Canyon Hills
community, residents are now forced to park their vehicles in their garages, which
has freed up spaces for those with a second or third vehicle. To me there is now
ample parking at all times of the day and night for residents. So to me opening 12-
13 spots on the street isn't going to solve the problem for anybody when 2 of those
might be taken up by the condo people, 2 taken up by the park, and maybe some
people from across the street. You're not really helping any one group, you are
piece - mealing it, which isn't solving anything. If think I just fear that if the signs are
removed we're just going to be back here in two months again with me and a hand
full of pictures going these are all the problems that have now been created because
of an issue that was brought up back in 2011.
Teff Dement, 8636 Sugar Loaf Peak Rd., #T — I'm on the Board for the condos. The use
of the clubhouse was recently renovated in the last year or two so it has been a lot
more in use since then. At this point it's being used nearly every weekend so I know
a lot more people are requesting the temporary suspension of the NO PARKING
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regulations on Old Camp Rd. and it will increase more and move. The parking in
general there is 386 units and there are less than 300 parking spots.
Chairman Beil - Does that surface parking lots outside?
Leff Dement - There is garage parking also, but there are not enough spaces for
people to have a second car parked outside. The parking permit program that was
implemented here in the last year or so has helped a little bit. I thought more people
would be in favor of the reinstatement of the parking spaces on Old Camp Rd., it
would allow people who come home late at night to have a please they could safely
park.
Commissioner Lebeau - How much do you charge for the use of the clubhouse?
Jeff Dement - It's $150 now
Lauren Osborn, 8636 E. Surarloaf Peak Rd., #F - Opposed. I strongly feel that the
removal of these signs would negatively impact my life and my neighbor's lives as
well. My concerns mainly are safety. My condo is in very close proximity to this
area and I'm concerned about strangers, lookie - lou's, unsavory activities that may be
occurring in cars parked along that dark street. I think this is going to cause
additional safety concerns moving forward. I'm also concerned about sanitation, the
overflow from the Peter's Canyon parking lot is going to spill over the Old Camp
Rd. and trash will be left behind, oil stains may occur going forward that will impact
the look of our neighborhood. The City will be losing money if these signs are
removed as patrons going to Peters Canyon will definitely park across the street to
save that $3 parking fee. This matter also has to do with the safety of those people
who do go to Peter's Canyon because now we have an additional issue of jay-
walking thus creating a possibility of pedestrian vs. auto accidents as they cross the
street to access the park. I do know that the parking issue has been a sore subject for
a while but I feel it has improved in the last several months. I just think this is a
heavy price to pay for a few parking spaces.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further
discussion and a motion.
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Chairman Beil — The City is not going to lose any money, Peter's Canyon Park is a
County Park and they get all the money. I've been involved with this issue on Old
Camp from the start; I really see this as an issue of the condo association. The
association needs to deal with this and figure out the parking. Allowing the parking
to go in on one side of Old Camp Rd. if you take down those signs particularly if the
event is on the weekend, that road is going to be full early in the morning by bikers,
runners and hikers. I know it, I used to do it, I used to park there. I think we should
leave the status quo as it is with the signing out there. We're going to have the
Firenza Way people come unglued as soon as people start parking out there
regularly since they have permit parking on Firenza Way that came through the
Commission and the City Council for approval. Staff has been very gracious in
trying to accommodate the association but when it comes right down to it we don't
have the means to accommodate their request. I feel we need to retain the status
quo with this parking I don't know if there is a better way to deal with events in the
complex itself. It sounds like the association has made some progress in controlling
parking but I think they have a ways to go internally, more discussion.
Commissioner Lebeau — I share your concerns I remember the gallery was filled the
last time we considered the NO PARKING ANYTIME on Old Camp Rd. with a lot
of proponents from both the residential tract and the condo development. I think
the lack of turnout today could be attributed to the potentially defective notice, but I
share your concerns and I am opposed to removing the NO PARKING ANYTIME
signs.
Commissioner Glasgow — If you're leasing out a clubhouse, I think the association
really needs to look at supplying parking when it is leased out. If it holds 70, 35
spaces, something where they have a place to park and they lease it, the spaces go
with it. Coming back to the city saying they need more parking on your street and
using street parking where it's been NO PARKING for years, I think is trying to put
the issue on the City when it should taken up by the association to see what they can
do. If they are leasing out their clubhouse they need to supply the parking inside.
Chairman Beil — I think the association can find parking, I don't know what the
covenants are in the development agreement or what they have to comply with
inside on the private roads but even if they allow parking on Sugar Loaf they can do
your own signing to allow it temporarily.
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Vice Chairman Vaughan — I think we all agree, if you free the space they will come.
That is the same everywhere in the City. I am always loathe to make ultimate
decisions without taking all of the people that are most affected and consideration
and would like to suggest that in the future we actually poll the residents and not
just sending out notices so we could get a total.
Chairman Beil — I'm against that myself, doing polling. I think notification and if
they feel strongly about it they can come and present themselves. There was a
hiccup on the sticker on the envelope but if my name is on the letter I'm going to
open the envelope and read the letter.
ACTION: Denied the request and retain the "NO PARKING ANYTIME"
restrictions on the east side of Old Camp Rd. from Heatherview
Ln. to the cul -de -sac.
MOTION:
Lebeau
SECOND:
Beil
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
End of Consideration Items
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VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations,
the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday -December 10, 2014
Respectfully submitted,
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
12then @cityoforangg.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
City of
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