03-13-2013 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: March 13, 2013
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, W. King, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Absent - Commissioners: None
Present - Staff: A. Farahani, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. J. Bird, P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
• February 13, 2013
Minutes are not available at this time.
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of 40 ft. of 30 Minute yellow CARGO Loading Zone
in front of 250 W. Emerson Ave.
Juan Martinez
250 E. Emerson Ave.
Orange, Ca. 92865
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Chairman Beil — Delivery trucks on a street like this, are they legally allowed to
double -park for loading and unloading purposes?
City of
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
Sgt. Teff Bird, Traffic Bureau Orange Police Dept. — Commercial vehicles in the
City of Orange per the Municipal Code are actually allowed to actually take
Tustin St., you may take over the number 3 lane (curbside) and park and off -load
in the lane, you may also park your truck and leave for lunch for 30 minutes in
the number 3 lane if you choose to; we don't like to see that but they can per the
Municipal Code. In this case where you are in a commercial zone and it's a cul-
de -sac a lot of these bigger trucks may not actually be able to get into or close to
the curb itself. We understand that and we would allow them to unload from
that area as long as they're not blocking another business driveway or they are
not going to be very long blocking the other businesses' driveway.
Tuan Martinez, 250 E. Emerson Ave. — In favor of request. When big trucks come
in they have difficulty getting in to our facility.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
ACTION: Approved the request.
MOTION:
Glasgow
SECOND:
Vaughan
AYES:
Beil, Glasgow, King, Vaughan
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
Lebeau
2. Request for the removal of red curb in front of 2978 N. Cottonwood St.
Linda Dunlap
2978 N. Cottonwood St.
Orange, Ca. 92865
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion. There were no
speakers from the public.
Chairman Beil — It seems logical to me since it's on the outside of a left -hand
curve on the approach to it.
ACTION: Approved the request.
MOTION: Beil
SECOND: King
AYES: Unanimous
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
3. Request for the removal of red curb on both sides of Shaffer St. between Katella
Ave. and Hoover Ave.
Tim Zimprich
510 E. Katella Ave.
Orange, Ca. 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Tim Zimprich, 510 E. Katella Ave. — In favor of request. We have a parking
problem two days out of the month where we have a large group in around
lunch so if we can have some parking on Shaffer St. and I understand what Dave
was saying about the east side but I'm concerned just as much on the west side
also where there is that commercial building on that corner and it is curved from
their driveway from approximately 150 ft. to Hoover Ave. that is all red curb, for
what reason?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — It was approved probably because at
some time we had a request to put in red curb on the north side of Hoover and
then at another point we had another request to put in red curb on the south side
of the driveway that serves this and based on what was approved there may not
have been a useful parking space left and that may be why it has all been
removed. In our opinion, the proponent has about 90 parking spaces inside his
parking lot. There are also 2 -3 spaces on Shaffer St. near Katella Ave. here
directly across from the restaurant and then what we are proposing would add
another 2 -3 spaces on the street.
Tim Zimprich, 510 E. Katella Ave. — I understand what he said but it's been there
so many years and I think it's old. We don't have a traffic problem there. I
understand that it would be nice if you were going north on Shaffer St. to have
that 20 -50 ft. from Katella Ave. clear so they can turn right. I just feel there is a
lot of red curb, and I understand the palm trees but I don't know why some on
that street have red curbs and others do not on that street and they are protecting
those palm trees, don't ask me why but I guess we have a lot of money to trim
palm trees in Orange.
E -mail from Sergio Sendowsky, 411 E. Hoover Ave. — Opposed to request. My
home is 3 houses down from the intersection of Hoover and Shaffer and I haven't
seen any over -flow parking emanating from Villa Park Catering Banquet Hall.
City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
My concern is parking on the northbound side of Shaffer will impeded and
traffic flow will be diverted onto Hoover. There currently is no shortage of
parking at this facility and since the majority of their business is in the evening
when the other area businesses are closed there should be no shortage at all,
especially if they are allowed to share the parking lots of the businesses that are
closed in the evenings.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Could you go over this once again I want to make
sure I understand. Did I hear you right that you think it would be a benefit to
leave some red curb so the right turn could be accessed without backing up
traffic? Maybe 20 ft. of red curb there might be appropriate.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Based on our observation over the last
couple of years and also several counts we have done we are actually in the
process of making that a right -turn only lane, and it is going to be heavily used.
The right turn lane the volume at the peak time is twice as both the combined
northbound through and the northbound left turn moves. So it is going to be
extended pretty much up to the proponent's driveway. 100 ft. is pretty much
going to be taken up by this right turn only lane, it won't be any shorter that 100
ft. due to the queue backing up.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — When will that take place and how does it affect our
decision tonight?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — That is going to take place in the next
couple of months and the installation and the impact is when we are going to
dedicate it as a right turn only lane then it's going to be NO STOPPING which is
the same as red curb.
Chairman Beil — I'd hate to implement the red curb and then come back and
implement the right turn only lane basically taking the parking away again.
Tim Zimprich, 510 E. Katella Ave. — I'm all for that, so why don't we free up that
red curb on the west side of the street?
City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
Commissioner Glasgow - Have you had any conversation with the property
owner across the street from you on those red curbs? They are probably the one
who requested their installation.
Chairman Beil - The red curb has been there a lot longer. In the email from an
area resident opposing the request for any removal and the area the proponent is
discussing is 110 ft. section on the north side of Shaffer St. closest to Hoover Ave.
and that seems to be the area that is most sensitive to the neighborhood there on
the north side of Shafer St.
ACTION: Leave the red curb in the area where there is going to be a future
right turn lane anyway and approve staff recommendation for the
removal of 56 ft. of red curb on the easterly side of Shaffer St., as
shown on that diagram.
MOTION: King
SECOND: Lebeau
AYES: Unanimous
4. Request to convert the existing 2 Hour time limit parking zone to a 1 Hour time
limit parking zone, and to establish a CARGO loading zone in front of 845 W.
Grove Ave.
John Grey
845 W. Grove Ave.
Orange, Ca. 92865
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Commissioner Glasgow - Are you saying the owner has put in the yellow curb
right now?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - Yes, as you can see from the
photograph the yellow curb had been repainted and it's very fresh paint and in
talking with him he felt that since the yellow curb already existed he went ahead
and repainted it. It wasn't that he was try to acquire new yellow curb but it not a
legal yellow zone as it is and it would have to be removed at his expense.
City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Tohn Grey, 84 W. Grove Ave. — If we cant get the yellow curb can we at least get
the curb painted green, they don't even pay attention to the sign for 2 Hr.
parking and we have 2 doors that we use for loading and unloading right in
front of the business. I painted the yellow curb because the neighbors were
parking there all the time and it was the only spot that they wouldn't park in any
more. There is a another painting company we have trouble with all the time
they shuffle their cars around, then my customers will park in front of his spot
and he calls me and says to stop parking in his spot.
Commissioner King — So you would like to have green curb here?
Tohn Grey, 845 W. Grove Ave. — If I could have it green, and then I think
someone .seeing the green curb instead of a regular curb it would be more
effective.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — There is no difference between signing
and paint on the curbs. When there are violations they can report them to the
Police and get enforcement in either case, it doesn't matter. Whoever is going to
park in an area that has signs posted, and they see the signs and don't pay
attention the green curbs for 1 Hour, instead parks for 4 hours then it's just a
matter of enforcement. It's redundant. The City tries to stay away for extra
painting and use signage, because you have to repaint every 2 -3 years, and
signage has lower maintenance.
Terry Householder, 701 W. Grove Ave. — I'm not opposed to the green curb. We
are very challenged for parking on that street, a lot is because there are 2
landscape companies around the corner down on Batavia St. and we have
anywhere up to 40 -50 cars parked there in the morning, say from 6 AM to 3:30
PM so that is challenging for him. When I built my building at 701 Grove the
City had me put in 40 spaces inside my property. I have all my employees park
inside, that's part of the stipulation so how do I deal with the other businesses in
the area that are having their employees parking here. I've heard they were
thrown of Southern St. because of parking there and they have slowly moved
over to Grove St.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
City of
Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
Chairman Beil - We've dealt with the problem of laborers arriving for work and
parking offsite on side streets and in some cases in residential areas, and it does
migrate around and the more parking you eliminate there's not much you can do
about it.
Terry Householder, 701 W. Grove Ave. - Isn't the business responsible for
providing a certain amount of parking for his employees within the premises?
Chairman Beil - That is a Code Enforcement issue in regard to the available
parking spaces on a business site. Otherwise public street /public parking that's
why the Commission have stated they loath taking away parking spaces but
sometimes it has to be done in certain circumstances. It's happening more,
parking is becoming more of an issue in the City, and we empathize with you.
ACTION: Approved reducing the 2 Hour time limit parking to a 1 Hour
time limit parking zone.
MOTION: Glasgow
SECOND: King
AYES: Unanimous
Commissioner Lebeau - I'm just wondering why you didn't make the loading
zone on one end or the other and have the rest of it be ...... 1 Hour.
John Grey, 845 W. Grove Ave. - If you look at the property there is no curb there.
The curb comes from the 2 doors down to 1 and that is where the yellow is.
There are no sidewalks there at all, it's all grass and then we can't load a
customer's car when our 53 ft. truck comes in either.
City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
5. Request to remove NO STOPPING ANYTIME restrictions in front of 2421, 2419,
2411 and 2409 N. Featherhill Dr.
Amber Stiefel, MAeD EdD
2409 Featherhill Dr.
Orange, Ca. 92869
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Melanie Broad, 2417 Shady Forest Ln. - Opposed to request. That is the slope to
our property on Shady Forest and that is my property down to the street with a
10 ft. easement for you guys that I keep. I am very concerned about what goes
on Featherhill Dr., I travel that a lot even coming in tonight I was coming around
from Shady Forest on to Featherhill and coming down someone was parked on
the left side and it was blind as I rounded the corner. It's dangerous, there are
blind spots. I think parking should be kept to a minimum. Another concern is a
crime wave in the neighborhood and if we have street parking it's hard to keep
control of the neighborhood.
Commissioner Lebeau - Are you suggesting these people shouldn't be allowed
to park in front of their own homes?
Melanie Broad, 2417 Shady Forest Ln. - I understand their rights but at the same
time that street was not built to have, I mean those were slopes that the other
people sold to these people to build houses on. The street was not built to
provide parking if you drive up and look at it you will see the blind spots
coming up from Meats you will see them just about where 2904 starts.
Al Baez, 2429 N. Shady Forest - Opposed to request. My concern is for the
pedestrian. There are 4 schools in the area, Serrano Elementary School, Cerro
Villa Jr. High, and the Lutheran High School and there are kids to and from
school and if you allow parking on the east side that will push the traffic on to
the west side, that's where the kids walk, and there's no sidewalk on the west
side. There is an easement for you to put in a sidewalk but it hasn't been put in.
I would be okay with the parking if they put in the sidewalks. If the kids have to
walk on the east side they have to cross at the top of Featherhill Dr. walk down
to Featherhill and Meats and cross again and then cross Meats again to get to
school, that is 6 crossings a day per child. We need the sidewalks put it, that
would make it safer for the pedestrian, get them off the streets and then these
�7 City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
people could have their parking. There is a spot where a whole car disappears
from view because of this dip. You can't appreciate the steepness of that hill
until you are standing there.
Bob Grau, 2439 N. Shady Forest Ln. - Opposed to request. He is exactly right
about what he is saying. The blind spot is huge. The speeds on that street
leaving Meats Ave. going up to Meadowgrove especially on the weekends can
approach approx. 60 mph, people race up and down that street. That blind spot
is very dangerous. The NO STOPPING signs were there when those people
bought those homes so that's too bad in our opinion; it was clearly marked for
NO STOPPING. We have people even as of this afternoon that are parked on the
other side of the street. If you are coming up the hill you have nowhere to go if
someone is shooting up or down the hill. I don't mind the loading and
unloading, that's fine but the parking in front, each of those homes have ample
driveway space for their own parking needs, you saw the signs when you went
and looked at the home to buy it.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil - So currently this whole area on the east side is posted for NO
PARKING, is that correct?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analys - Currently both sides of the street are
posted for NO PARKING ANYTIME up to Meadowgrove.
Chairman Beil - The proposal is to remove just the east side and create the red
vision zones at the top and bottom at Meadowgrove and Meats. My one
perspective is that going uphill or north the right side of the street is the outside
of the curve your vision is constantly looking to the left on that slight geometric
curve to the left. Coming downhill you are always looking to the right and so
leaving the NO PARKING on the west side is appropriate. I think staff has done
the leg work as far as looking at the safety and traffic implications of this, there
are sidewalk on the east side of the street. We are not proposing any change to
pedestrian traffic on this street as part of this item. I don't see this as being an
issue for pedestrians.
City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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Commissioner King — So that I can be clear the speakers all go along with staff's
recommendation is that correct?
Chairman Beil — No, the speakers have all indicated they are opposed to any
removal.
Commissioner Glasgow — What amount are we looking at for parking, 3, 4, 5 or 6
cars?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — The area south of 2409 we are
showing as 100 ft. is probably 3 -4 cars. The area between 2409 and 2411 there
really isn't that much room you might be able to get a small car in there.
Between 2411 and 2421 we have a vacant lot and there isn't even a driveway
approach you could probably get 5 -6 cars; and then north of 2421 you could put
in another 4 -5 cars in that area. Now if you're having company most of the time
the street is going to have very light demand for on- street parking because you
only have 3 residences there, you have 3 -car garages and you do have fairly deep
driveways.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — If you are parking on the inside of the
curve and you are visiting somebody over here then you are walking out and
crossing the street, and you are not being seen. If you are parking adjacent to
those residences you don't have to cross the street. There is sidewalk here on the
east side of the street that goes down to Meats and the traffic volume in the area
is a little bit more on Featherhill because it serves a fairly large neighborhood,
but the volumes on the other streets are fairly light.
ACTION: Continue to next meeting, and have a look at it and maybe come
up with another way to do this. The speakers are all opposed.
MOTION: King
No Second, Motion fails.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I'd like to clarify where the sidewalks are on the
street. I heard 2 of the speakers comment about pedestrian traffic and I wanted
to make sure I am clear in mind if there is a safe option for children walking in
the street and whether Sgt. Bird has an opinion on pedestrian traffic there?
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting — City Traffic Commission March 13, 2013
Chairman Beil - The existing sidewalk is on the east side of the street and there is
no sidewalk on the west side. Some of the opponents were actually saying they
want a sidewalk.
Sgt. Teff Bird, Traffic Bureau Police Dept. - There is a sidewalk on the east side
that will lead from Meats all the way up into the neighborhood. I think what the
opponents are saying is correct though that if anybody lives on the west side of
Featherhill they are going to have to cross the road at least twice, once at Meats
and once when they get up to their neighborhood when they go back to the west
side.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - So there is an issue to be considered.
Sgt. Teff Bird, Traffic Bureau Police Dept. - Because there's no sidewalk on the
west side. That hasn't changed and it won't change with this request.
Commissioner Glasgow - They have been doing that for 10 - 15 years however
long that property has been built.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - What we're hearing is a request for a sidewalk you're
saying that is what is needed. That is a different issue than what is being
considered here and I think there is a process that you can go through and it
sounds like what is needed but we cannot act on it.
There is further discussion about the actual location of the sidewalk and review of the
Google maps showing the missing sidewalk section.
ACTION: Approved staff recommendation in full.
MOTION: Glasgow
Chairman Beil - I look at the geometry of the street being on the outside of the
curve and the existing sidewalk is on that side, I see no reason that you couldn't
allow parking on that side.
SECOND: Beil
AYES: Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau, Vaughan
NOES: King
End of Consideration Items
City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - April 10, 2013
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen @cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92566
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
O City of Tape #CTC -33.02 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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