04-10-2013 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: April 10, 2013
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present — Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, W. King, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Present — Staff: A. Farahani, W. Winthers, D. Allenbach, D. Hoard, J. Bird, P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
• February 13, 2013 - Minutes not available at this time.
• March 13, 2013 - Minutes are not available at this time.
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this month.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
g City of
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Public Works Department
Tape #C'C -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request to remove the following streets from Neighborhood Parking Permit
Area R:
a) Both sides of Salinas Court easterly of Santa Maria St.
b) Both sides of San Luis Dr. east of Santa Cruz Ave.
c) Both sides of Santa Cruz Ave. from San Luis Dr. to Santa Maria St.
d) Both sides of Santa Maria St. between San Luis Dr. and Santa Cruz Ave.
Requested by
Steve Stahovich Shelly Aronson Taraneh Maleksaidi
7945 Salinas Ct. 248 S. Santa Maria St. 8127 E. San Luis Dr.
Orange, Ca 92869 Orange, Ca 92869 Orange, Ca 92869
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Suring Narang, 7903 Santa Cruz Ave — My concern is Santa Maria because my
house faces it and we don't want any strangers parking there, its mainly a safety
issue for us. My grandchildren come, they play around, now we see the cops
and patrol around the area and it's pretty safe. The neighborhood is clean ever
since it was enforced. Why are we here again? It was already done. Here we are
again going through this and spending our time and your time. I have a letter
from my neighbor also; they are in favor of keeping it. We bought our house
because this is a good neighborhood and we pay Mello -Roos. We think this
should stay and Santa Maria has to stay also because we are 3 houses from the
corner.
Anju Patel — 294 Santa Maria St — In favor of the parking permits because I have
two busy streets right across from my house where people can park when they
want to go to the park for jogging and they come up here to park. I have 10 yr.
old twins and sometimes they play outside, this would be a lot of traffic issues
and that is why I'm in favor of keeping the parking permits.
iennie Le — 282 Santa Maria St . — In favor of keeping the permits and we don't
want it lifted at all. The street is now quiet and it's clean and we do not want all
that traffic inside and they will come in. We have two long streets that can park
quite a few cars. If you lift the permit restrictions all the vehicles going to the
park will come right inside to park.
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Barbara Chlupek - 262 Santa Maria St . - Opposed to lifting the ban for a bunch of
reasons. We shouldn't be here, this was decided in December. You need to
authenticate all of the signatures on the proposal because not all of them are real.
At my house alone I told them I was opposed to the whole idea, they waited
until my car was gone and they came back at 9 PM when I was out and they
talked to my housemate; he wanted to get them out of his face so he signed it.
He told me later he felt he was coerced; I know he's not the only one. I heard
from one the other residents who just moved in that were told that if you live in
the neighborhood here please sign this, they weren't told what the problem was.
The problems are, first of all, we like not having the trash and I have letters from
everybody to hand you. I have them from 4 other people as well as mine. We
definitely do not want this to be lifted. If it is lifted you will see us again trying
to get it put back. Peter's Canyon is Peter's Canyon Park. We don't want to be
their parking lot they are now so popular that they fill up the enlarged parking
lot. On top of that they leave behind trash, food wrappers, water bottles and
other things, and then the neighborhood has to clean up. On top of that now we
have people coming in that as someone told you in December, commit identify
theft and have all kinds of problems along the lines of crime and then you have
people without parking permits who are casing the area because its upscale for
burglaries, if they don't have a permit in the car how do we know if they belong
there. We have noise, pollution we don't want that to come back, we are happy
the way it is. I have a friend who is a Ranger for the Orange County Parks and
he told me off record that Peter's Canyon Park is so popular that they already
have to close off the lot. When summer comes it's going to get a whole lot worse,
and of course those people are going to park on our streets if this is lifted. All of
the neighborhoods close to the Park already have permit parking; we want to
keep it the way it is. I think the only reason people signed that was because they
we either coerced or talked into it somehow. We don't have anything to gain by
lifting the parking permit issue, we have everything to lose.
Hans VanLigten - 308 Santa Maria St - I was opposed to the original imposition
of the permit parking program both at the Traffic Commission and City Council.
The reason we are here again is because when the Council approved it in
response to comments from people like me they said you could bring it back in 6
months and circulate a petition and make adjustments as you deem necessary
and that's what some of my neighbors dyid. I full support lifting it for the same
reasons I opposed it in the beginning. The original staff report was very clear
that mere was a minimal intrusion of traffic from the adjoining park. Your
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Traffic Engineer said there really is no problem, but if the neighborhood really
wants it we can support it. There was not an intrusion problem, there was not a
big need for it and I thought it was overkill and unnecessary, although some of
my neighbors have a different issue because some of them are closer to the
entrance to the park. With respect to my street, I was opposed to it. I have 5
children, many of them are driving age and when their friends come over they
have to worry about getting tickets. Why? For no reason other than somebody is
concerned about parking in the neighborhood and trash and all these other
things that have never happened on Santa Maria St. The extent of the scope was
too great and that is why it's being asked to be tailored. One of the reasons I was
most upset with this after it was instituted is when the Crime Scene Investigator
came to my house to ask about my car in front of my house on a Saturday
because somebody was complaining about parking and he could not go do an
investigation on a crime scene because we had to waste police resources to go do
parking tickets in East Orange. That to me is an absurd waste of City resources.
Kathy Reza - 8123 San Luis Dr . - I live at the corner of San Luis and Santa Cruz,
and I've lived there 20 years; there is not a problem with traffic, trash, or a lot of
the things these people are saying. I believe it's because they don't want
anybody to park in front of their house. Now with the permit parking they are
going around putting notes on people's cars harassing people and they are
calling police all the time, they are wasting taxpayer money to come out giving
people tickets. We had an expired permit and because we didn't have time to go
get a new one when it expired we got a ticket ourselves. I don't believe the
parking permits are a good idea, it's inconvenient, we have lots of family and
friends and we entertain a lot and it very inconvenient.
Steve Stahovich - 7945 Salinas Ct . - When this went through the first time my
wife had signed the petition in favor of the permits to support the people on San
Luis. Unfortunately we were misled and lied to about the scope it would
encompass. I spoke with the Traffic staff about it, I spoke with my neighbors on
Salinas Ct. about it, and every neighbor with exception of one who hasn't been
home for several months was 100% against the permits. They felt that they were
also lied to and misled originally. We've never had a problem on Salinas Ct.,
since the permit parking restrictions went into effect people who don't read,
don't t read and they park right in front of that opening anyway. Nobody drives
around the corner to go park anywhere else, it's not been an issue. Part of the
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issue also going back to the Park was that the Park Rangers would instruct
people to go park in the adjacent communities when the lot was full. There was
a dog show held at the park and on the hand -out promoting the event it was
written that if the parking lot was full they should go across to Presidio Way and
they will find parking in that community. Park users now know they can't do
that, we haven't had an issue, there's no trash like everybody says, this isn't El
Centro, and this isn't a bad place to live. This hasn't been a problem for the last
19 years and I don't foresee it to be a problem for the next 19 years. I believe the
numbers of the signatures on the petition speak for themselves. It affects
property values from 3 -10% depending on who to talk to. You also don't have
the option of emergency passes and sorry if you don't plan it in advance you are
out of luck.
Brooke Delligatta — 8108 San Luis Dr . — My mom and I are happy that it's there
because nobody is outside when I want to hang out with my friends, and there's
not a lot of cars everywhere and random people going around and being odd. I
like the permits and hope you will keep them.
Cathy Delligatta — 8108 San Luis Dr . — The people here that are against permit
parking are in areas where they don't have the problem, but they will. They
don't understand that the signs are going to be taken down that say this block is
parking by permit only; it will be replaced by end of parking by permit only, so
they are going to get the problem. We are constantly getting people who are
parking in there and the very first thing that they always ask me, where's the
sign? And they also are asking where they can park within our area that doesn't
require permits. I've had this problem ever since I have lived here, it's done
northing except get worse, I've had people taking pictures of my daughter, I had
trash, I've had dog poop, people laying in our yard resting at the end of their
Peter's Canyon walk and people coming in a 3 AM and going to parties at houses
off the areas around Peter's Canyon. Officers have seen our problem, they agree
with the problem. The portion of San Luis where I live is going to keep the
permit parking. The reason we are concerned about that is because the street
where I live is the way in and out of the tract. We're still going to be getting the
traffic, the foot traffic, dogs, and trash. The people living on Salinas Dr. I
understand that they don't have the problem yet, neither do the people on Santa
Maria St. but they will. They have no idea. It took 10 years and my money to get
the permit parking restrictions implemented, there were able to get their removal
petitions without any fees being paid at all, I don't find that real fair.
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Bill Lusher — 8139 San Luis Dr . — We are not in favor of the permit parking, it is
hard to manage, especially as we have a young son with visitors that continually
come over and we're giving out parking permits in order to adhere to the rule
and as soon as we do that everybody is gone and so are the parking permits. It's
hard to manage to keep on top of it. We just had health care workers and doctors
coming over to care for my father -in -law who was ill. We would hand the
permits out to them as they would come and then they would go and the permits
wouldn't be returned, it's a real chore to keep on top of these permits.
Taraneh Maleksaeidi — 8127 San Luis Dr . — I attended the last meeting regarding
this matter and I am in favor of the removal of the permit parking. I went
around with the petition on Santa Cruz, Santa Maria and San Luis cul -de -sac. If
my neighbors on the other side of San Luis want to keep their permits, I have no
problem with that as long as we don't have to deal with that is the general
consensus as I was circulating the petition; it's a nuisance, nobody wants it, we
were happy with the way it was before. We would like the parking permit
restrictions removed.
Gary Groover — 8127 San Luis Dr . — I wasn't in favor of the permit parking in the
first place. Public streets are for public access, now people want to use the Park,
I've run into a lot of families that come home with their kids and their dog and
they see this ticket $54.00 I've paid two of them while parked in front of my own
house. I've heard the arguments that well it's safer and it creates less traffic. A
real criminal is going to do what they want to do, a little sign indicating parking
permits restrictions doesn't stop a thing. I was against this from the beginning
and that's why we went around and got the petition signed. A lot of my
neighbors felt that when they originally signed the petition it wasn't properly
explained how it was going to work. Some of them were under the impression
that it would only be at the area right at the "T" of Presidio and San Luis and I
think that is why all these other streets are here. I'm asking that you please
remove the permit restrictions.
Stephen Amendt — 8100 San Luis Dr . — I live at the corner of Presidio and San
Luis. The fundamental issue is safety that is the fundamental issue of this whole
parking by permit only that we have put into our neighborhood. Last night I
called the police because there was a car parked out there at 10:30 PM and it was
people going into the park. We've had issues with people taking pictures of their
children, people loitering in our neighborhood, people throwing trash in our
neighborhood. I also had this issue; I got this letter from one of my neighbors on
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Santa Cruz who asked me to read it to you today because he was unable to
attend. He points out that trash has been littered on both curbs along the sides of
San Luis and Santa Cruz; they use the mailbox as a stretch area and mailbox
posts as stretch boards, and then went through and stole our mail. From stolen
mail credit and convenience checks were used, credit cards were stolen and used,
personal information was also used to obtain loans and other credit cards. As a
result we became victims of identity theft; this has all been reported to the
Orange PD. He writes further. "Please keep this parking permit policy in place
it gives us peace of mind knowing no strangers would frequent our area
anymore and as a result preventing theft and trash littering from our
neighborhood." I understand that some of the people of our neighborhood have
not experienced this first hand, but the fact is that they know that some of their
neighbors have experienced this and I find their attitude somewhat appalling to
be quite frank, that they don't care about the rest of their neighbors, particularly
as it pertains to theft to at least make this work. We have a number of people on
San Luis who do not seem to have the same issues as you people do with respect
to making the permits work and I'm sure there are some people out there who
have kids and there are some people that have parties. I also point out that a
certain family had a party on Easter Sunday and they had cars parked on the
street without permits, we did not call the police on them, we only directed our
comments to those people going in to Peter's Canyon. We've been very sensitive
to the fact that when we do call the police, particularly the parking enforcement
that they will circulate around and look for other cars. The police have been
great. We would really like people to step back and think about this whole issue,
this is a safety issue and if you allow these little islands of safety for these people
to come in at night and do whatever they may in Peter's Canyon or our
neighborhood, and I believe that the officer would know that we have had issues
with people coming in and sealing things and robbing the houses within our
neighborhood. As a matter of fact, my brother -in -law who used to live at this
corner of Santa Maria and Santa Cruz, the furthest point from entry over to
Peter's Canyon this house was broken into. I would ask that you reconsider
what has been put before you and think about the neighborhood as a whole, who
when this was initially passed was a 73% majority. If you look at the video tape
of the City Council meeting they did not ask nor did they suggest that streets
should be carved up as have been suggested with the cul -de -sac and San Luis. I
can understand if the cul -de -sac at Salinas Ct. is pulled off and if they do get a
majority of people in those streets that really don't want it I understand that. But
to carve up San Luis I don't believe it's fair to the people living in the cul -de -sac
nor is it fair to the rest of the people on San Luis.
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Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further comments, consideration, and a decision.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — It seems there is some kind of disparity between the
majority it seemed we had at the time we voted on this, and the people we have
coming forward now who have both experienced it firsthand and maybe feel
they were led to believe this would be something that it wasn't. I was wondering
if that number reflects that numbers on the petition.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Are we talking about the residents who
spoke right now, compared to the percentage we have on the petitions.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I think it might be too hard of a questions to answer
right now because I believe if we count them up we might have some new
participants who didn't oppose it that might have been in favor of it originally
and maybe have changed their mind. So I'm wondering if it might be in order
for us to go back and have the City do a new count and get a more specific and
verifiable number based on what we have seen tonight.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — City Council directed staff to comply with
the guidelines and assist the residents that want to be out of the program. The
guidelines give us the ability to prepare the petitions and give the applicants the
goal to go with a good faith effort. The same thing happened the first time, so if
the applicants make a good faith effort to obtain the signatures either in favor or
opposed, and in some cases as you see are not home. Not being home for
opposition are considered the same. When we calculate the percentage the
percentage of in favor of that, in this case the removal, is divided by the total of
the residents. If that is the direction from the Commission staff would do that, it
would be the first time we would have had to do that.
Chairman Beil — I think the only comparison we have is the surveys that were
taken when the permit program was initiated versus the surveys noted on the
overlay of the existing survey we have now just to see what change the thinking
is. However, we also have the guidance regarding the minimum majority of the
55% either in favor of the removal or in favor of keeping the permits, in this case.
We could almost anticipate this would be coming back sometime in the future
that we know it's an issue of the County park, it's being over - parked, it is a base
camp for hiking and mountain biking, so we knew that a minimal parking zone
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implementation there is spill -over and they immediately would go the adjacent
streets. To what degree, the Commission doesn't know, we have to rely on the
surveys that go out to your neighborhoods and tell us, based on the guidance if
you meet the percentage. There is no way this process satisfies everybody in
these neighborhoods so that is the other thing we need to consider is that the
democratic majority of 55% is the guidance on acceptance. The original addition
to this permit parking area, was it exactly overlaid on all these streets?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — It did except on San Luis Dr. San Luis Dr.
from Santa Cruz to Santa Maria we took it out with the understanding that
nobody came forward to request the removal. But in other areas as highlighted
those are the 3 people who approached the city and requested a petition to
circulate and remove their sections.
Commissioner Beil — Regarding what the Commission decides tonight what
happens to this item if we make a decision tonight? Does it go to Council?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Yes it would go to the Council for the
final approval.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I want to properly represent the majority of the
population of that neighborhood. I feel conflicted because I thought I heard
some people say there was some misrepresentation on the description of the
petition, but I also heard some heartfelt facts about what people are going
through that are most affected. I wonder if this could be vetted more properly
and specifically. I noted there were some signatures on some of the streets that
were not contacted, I don't know if they would be in favor or if they would be
opposed and I don't know what the count is on the card of people who might
have voted for the petition the first time but changed their mind now based on
either their experience or because they didn't understand it properly. I think
Santa Cruz is of specific concern because they are so far removed from the main
avenue. I think it would be looked into in greater detail and maybe something
more specifically done by staff to personally contact and make sure that at the
end of the day if it is still 55% that we can honestly say that we've put our best
foot forward in making sure everyone is properly represented.
Commissioner King — I've been on the Commission a few years and I've never
seen more than a dozen people around, this is really staggering, there must be a
rea not issue out there. I'm sure many of you disagree and did agree th have
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changed your mind but this is a process and most of you I think would agree
that the process ought to work and there has been money paid to get this done
and it gets an automatic appeal to the City Council and we know the only thing
we have to go by is what the staff have put together and I think did what they
could. I'd make a proposal that we approve what the staff has recommended.
Commissioner Lebeau - I would be heard before entertaining a second on that. I
have some concerns about the petition itself. In going through them and for
example the first one for the answers on the first sheet of the petition that is the
7000 block of Salinas Ct. four of the answers have been changed. Flipping over
to the report for Santa Maria we had the speaker at 262 represent that the
signature gatherer was coercing that signature. Moving to the answers from 282
and 294 which are reported here to have refused to talk or not home, who came
today and spoke in opposition to this petition. If you change those two answers
then on that street you have 5 in favor and 4 opposed. I have concerns about the
signature gathering process if it is an accurate representation of the residents
attitude towards this matter and seeing the numerous changed answers on the
petition, seeing this representation that someone refused to talk or were not
home and is here today speaking against the matter makes me wonder if they
were genuinely attempted to be contacted. I am not in favor of staff's
recommendation at this point with this set of petitions because of these
irregularities.
Chairman Beil - We have a motion on the floor from Commissioner King, do we
have a second? I'm going to go ahead and second that motion myself. We have
the guidelines and I find it very difficult to be the judge of the accuracy of a
residential signature collection survey. We can't tell if there have been changes I
think Vice Chairman Vaughan has made some valid points on what has changed
from the original. That just gives us one data set; it does not tell us the reasons
why things have changed.
ACTION: Approved the request and forward to the City Council for final
action.
MOTION: King
SECOND: Beil
AYES: Beil, Glasgow, King
NOES: Lebeau, Vaughan
ABSTAIN: None
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2. Request for the implementation of "NO STOPPING 7 AM TO 4 PM
EVERYDAY" on both sides of Taft Ave. between Cambridge St. and Shaffer St.
for the installation of Class II bike lanes.
Traffic Engineering Division
CITY OF ORANGE
Commissioner Lebeau — Did you conduct and traffic counts on the weekends?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No we did not.
Commissioner Lebeau — We have no idea how intensive parking is in this area on
the weekends?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No we do not.
Commissioner Lebeau — You mentioned there are 2 churches nearby?
Dave Allenbach Transportation Analyst — Yes, going back to the aerial exhibit.
There is Kingdom Hall located at the westerly end of the subject area, and they
have 114 -150 stalls in their parking lot. Just to the west of the study area is St.
Norbert's Catholic Church, they have approximately 300 parking spaces in their
parking lot.
Commissioner Lebeau — With the nature of the religious worship would it be a
safe question to say that this area might be more heavily parked on the weekends
than the weekdays?
Dave Allenbach Transportation Analyst — It's possible; we just had Easter, one of
the big holidays on the Christian calendar. During that time and on Christmas
day I don't believe there is a church parking lot large enough to accommodate all
the church goers on those two days of the year and so there may be a high
demand for on- street parking in this area at those times, however, at least 5 days
a week there is essentially no demand for on- street parking in this area and that
includes after work hours when people would be home.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — In the segment of study there is only one
church.
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Commissioner King — When did the vote come up for the bike lane on the rest of
Taft from Cambridge to Tustin? Has it been implemented yet?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That was approved last August; and
yes it is operational now.
Chairman Beil — Was there any consideration regarding the 7 AM to 4 PM
Monday thru Friday?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No but that is also based on the level
of parking demand we've seen in the area.
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — We want to be consistent with the other
segments which were from 7 to 4 except one section. In order to be consistent
that was the case. We didn't expect that much opposition to this project. In the
period of time we are in the process of a study, we didn't notice on weekdays
any demand for on- street parking in that segment of Taft Ave. we are surprised
by all the e- mails.
Chairman Beil — Do we think we have enough information to decide now and
should I hear the public testimony now?
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Based on your knowledge of the e -mails was there
one general theme or consensus about this issue that you could share with us?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Yes it was and most of the residents are
from the 700 E. Taft Ave., their concern was, they do have adequate parking for
their own but many times when they have visitors they have no place and all
visitors and guests have to park on the street, on Taft Ave. That was pretty much
the same on all of their concerns.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Was there a distinction made that you know between
weekdays and weekends?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — No there was no differentiation.
Commissioner Glasgow — Other than 700 E. Taft nothing else faces Taft Ave.,
especially on the north half, everything backs up to Taft Ave.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Nothing on the north side, it's all
residential and they all back on Taft Ave. On the south side there is a church, a
public library and Golden Circle tract at 700 E. Taft Ave.
Chairman Beil — Circumstances on this stretch of Taft Ave. as far as frontage of
driveways or in a community like this is very different than the section
immediately east that was previously approved. Because of the complex at 700
E. Taft it is not a traditional residential area that has more of a condo complex
parking arrangement. That is what makes it so very different that the stretch to
the east where there was one small apartment complex that had a issue with
under - parking on their side and having to over park on the street that we had to
deal with. This is the much larger scale of the same issue that we've faced
previously.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Wasn't there several variations of bike lanes
discussed? We talked about the type of bike lanes where you could park and
drive at the same time as opposed to ones where parking was restricted? I don't
know if it was shared with people in our audience that there are variations. No
one would disagree that bike lanes are a good thing, they make it easier for
people to travel our streets there are using them anyway. As I heard I don't
think anybody opposes the fact that there is a tremendous amount of bicycle
traffic, but there are variations of ways we can adjust the bike lanes and signage.
I just wondered if that was shared in the process.
Chairman Beil — Maybe we could ask if staff looked into the bike lanes striped
just on the outside of the parallel parking area along the curb, is there enough
width in this section and would it be viable to do that in the eastbound direction
for this stretch?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — We did not evaluate that option we
discussed it previously but we are more than happy to take back all your
comments and suggestions to review and evaluate them.
Chairman Beil — For the audience, this option allows parking against the curb
and actually does a striping pattern outside of the parked vehicle. This is in
conformance with the Manual For Uniform Traffic Control Devices which is
really the guiding design document that is used in court all the time as to what
designs are implemented. It needs to be studied to see if the geometric
conditions, the speed make it applicable to the use in this location. That would
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have to be looked at by staff. I'm not willing to direct them until a proper study
has been done.
Commissioner Glasgow - I share your concerns and I would make a motion that
we hold this over so staff can do that study.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion on this item.
Melissa Chicklo, 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #12 - Opposed to the bike lane. I'm one of
the board members for our community and this impacts us greatly during the
week. I know there have been surveys out with the lines going out and I live
right in front facing Taft and I have never seen that many bicyclists going up and
down Taft. We have a cabana our homeowner's may use during the day and
when it is being uses we ask that guests park on Taft Ave. We don't have the
parking in the complex to accommodate everybody that wants to park on Taft
along with the homeowners. We do that because the homeowners have a right
to park where they live, so we asks guests to park out on Taft. We are the only
ones besides the church and the library in that little section that use Taft for
parking, and there is more parking on Taft during the day, I'm home every day
and I see it. If there has to be a bike lane there where the parking is restricted, it
needs to be on the north side of the street as opposed to the south side. On
weekends both churches park up and down Taft Ave. all day.
Pat Niverson, 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #22 - Opposed to the bike lane. If you look
at that map we have 44 units in our complex. If you put in this bike lane I'm
going to have my visitors park at least 2 blocks to Taft and if you put in the bike
lane another 2 blocks. So that means my family and friends will be parking 5
blocks away to visit me. This is just not something we want on Taft Ave.
Chris Ash, 1753 N. Maplewood St - In favor of adding the bike lane down Taft.
I have 2 kids that I like to take on bike rides and cars go down that street pretty
fast, it's kind of a safety issue, it's also often turns into a used car sales lot with
people selling cars, and I don't feel safe with my kinds being going down that
way by themselves. Between Cambridge and Tustin where the bike lane did get
installed, there were 2 churches along that stretch as well and they seem to be
okay with that there as well.
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Ken Eldridge, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #7 — Opposed to losing on- street parking
along Taft Ave. I think the Commission is on the right track in reevaluating the
type of bike lane that may be placed there, I have not measured the street myself
but it looks to me that there is plenty of room to do such a thing so I will leave it
to your good judgment.
Scott Miller, 20221 E. Frank Ln. — I'm one of the managing directors of the 534 E.
Taft Ave. Kingdom Hall and out of respect of the Commission's time we have
discussed this issue and decided we would have one or two speak on our behalf.
By a show of hands everyone in the audience please raise your hands. We're
here to speak against eliminating the parking along Taft Ave. We are in favor of
bike lanes because some of our members and the public take rides to our
property. Having been established in the neighborhood for 50 years, having had
good neighbors from the 700 address. We've observed the impact of parking on
that street from our activities, from our neighbor's activities, and even from St.
Norbert's Church down the street which is not yet affected by this. Especially on
the weekends that street gets filled with parking cars. For those reasons and for
what it would do to disrupt the harmony in the neighborhood, we've taken some
steps to try to be good neighbors. We have had occasions where buses will come
to pick up and drop off some of our attendees, and in an attempt not to disrupt
the neighbors at 700 and the neighbors that face Schaffer St. we direct those buses
not come in to our generous parking lot, because we don't want the noise to
disrupt our neighbors and their activities. We understand our activity is
different from our residential neighbors thus we ask them to park on the street,
which they do. Additionally, as commented before, certain activities through the
calendar year generate a much larger attendance of the public than we would
typically have. To help offset that recently we rented a facility to offset the
impact we would have on street parking and we still feel packed up. We're in
favor of exploring other options that would provide both a bike lane while
allowing on- street parking and it appears that both options could work on Taft
Ave.
Richard Tepe, 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #34 — Opposed to this. Last Sunday I
counted in the morning and early afternoon at the Kingdom Hall that there were
16 cars on the street at one time and 12 at another time. St. Norbert's has the
same problem and when they have their Octoberfest the entire Taft, Shaffer
everyplace is wiped out completely. We are wiped out for 3 days. We are a
small facility with a small parking lot and parties take place and there are 10 -15
cars out there all the time. The weekends should be checked out definitely.
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Melissa Knopes 1746 N Maplewood St — In favor installing the bike lane, it
promotes health and safety. I have 2 young daughters and I would ride with
them in the bike lane, I wouldn't let them go by themselves. I do not see a lot of
weekend parking especially the signage that would say from 7 - 4, that seems
like a flexible time. When the churches are crowded along that area it's usually
because they are having a special festival after 4 pm or some special meeting.
For the safety and for the access of health that is promoted in our beautiful City
of Orange I do believe we should have a bike lane.
Scott Winer, 534 E. Taft Ave. — Out of respect for your time and how our
expressions have already been made, we are going to waive the right to speak at
this time.
Art Mattson, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #5 — We do not object to bike lanes parked on
the street, we strenuously object to the area being designated as NO PARKING
for any period of time. There are bike lanes everywhere in the County where
you can have both. I'm willing to negotiate that. If this proposal was for
bicyclists' safety it simply is not necessary. There has not been an accident or a
mishap in the 26 years I have resided here. There is plenty of room to fit the bike
lane in and I would propose you put it in on the north side of the street. It's
unusual but I've seen them before where you can have a 2 -Way Bike Lane on
side of the street, it's an alternative that be considered. The count results indicate
there are up to 300 people using the bike lanes, we have never seen these people,
and who are they? Did a bike club go through one day and you got them? Most
days nobody parks on the street. If the parking restrictions are put in where are
all these people going to park that currently use Taft Ave.? Not in the Library
next door because there are signs in there indicating the parking is for Library
customers only. There are a lot of instances where there is a need for parking
and I urge you to deny the request.
Angie Mattson, 700 E. Taft Ave Unit #5 — Waive her turn her points have
already been made.
Mike Burgess, 299 N. St. College St. Unit #3029 — Waive his turn to speak and his
points have already been made.
Tames Yeah , 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #6 — I fully support a happy medium with
bicyclists and pe9ople parking on the street. I have a lot of medical p roblems
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and parking 5 -6 blocks away isn't possible for me on Sunday's, it will have a
severe impact on many people if you eliminate parking.
Ken Mendun, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #26 — I find it amazing that you have done a
survey on the street and it's a residential street with 2 churches and yet you
didn't do any counting on the weekend. This is unbelievable to me; this is when
everybody is parking on the street. There are a lot of people that park on that
street during the church services on Sunday's and that would impact them. My
hope would be that you would instruct the Traffic Engineer to complete the
survey as it should have been done to include the weekend.
Louise Irving - Mendum, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #26 — I am in favor of a safe bike
lane, I've raised 3 children myself, I know how scary it is as a mom, but I really
believe there is a happy medium. We cannot afford to lose our parking, I just
rented the clubhouse for a birthday party and we were so strict that nobody
could park inside the complex and everybody complied. If you take away the
parking on Taft Ave. they wouldn't have had their party. We have a lot of
activities in our community.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission
for further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — We had a discussion about continuing this for some additional
surveys.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I just want to say I am greatly encouraged by the
participation here it's wonderful to see everyone come out and be able to speak
their mind, we're here to represent you and this is the most people I have ever
seen at a Traffic Commission meeting.
Chairman Beil — I'm glad they didn't want parking permits.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I'm also greatly encouraged that everybody
recognizes that there really is no harm in bike lanes, bike lanes are a good thing,
they are stripes on the street. I am a bike rider, this gentlemen and this other
gentleman is a bike rider and I think what we have heard is everybody's
willingness to come up with a solution. Having said that I hope that the
spokeswman would review the options and that they get together with staff and
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I would like to recommend that we put this over for further consideration to
continue this to the next meeting.
Chairman Beil - Do we want to give staff anything specific to look at such as
weekend counts? Amir would have to figure out who would go out and do that.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - Oh I think we already know who goes
out and does that.
Chairman Beil - I would suggest we give some recommendations to staff to also
look at weekend counts, look at the applicability of the bike lane next to parallel
curb parking.
Commissioner King - How is the bike lane structured at the other end of the
street? Is parking still available there with the bike lane on the outside?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - Yes it is, well there is 8 ft. of bike lane
from 7 AM to 4 PM except one section which was compromised from 8:30 AM to
3:30 PM but in the afternoon cars can park because we know the activity of the
bikers is much less in the afternoon after 4 PM.
Chairman Beil - We've looked at the applicability the problem particularly in the
other section it was if we could use that striping detail next to parking in the
westbound direction. There was a lot of difficulty due to the area where it
transitions approaching Tustin St. that made it troublesome you don't want to be
transitioning back and forth continually.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - Hopefully the spokespeople will be able to get with
staff discover all of the viable options and educate yourselves on what they are
and come up with a consensus.
Chairman Beil - When staff takes a look at some specific things on the staff
report that comes back we'll hopefully something will work out and they will
have some things they will present that will be viable.
Commissioner Glasgow - On your average daily ridership graph it looks like
your weekends are your down time, Saturday and Sunday, it looks like Sunday
was 317 yet you have your ridership down on Sunday a long way and then your
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Saturday is still down. That may lead to a 5 -day restriction or limited and lifting
it for parking on the weekend.
Chairman Beil — That's another thing we can look at, maybe formalize the staff
recommendation as far as continuality with the section of roadway to the left if
you do different timing. Amir how long do you think this will take to vet this
out a little more?
Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — 3 -4 months.
Chairman Beil — That would put us into our August meeting.
ACTION: Continued this to the August meeting with the additional
research and vetting of ideas.
MOTION: C. Vaughan
SECOND: W. King
AYES: Unanimous
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: None
3. Request to prohibit on- street parking from the north side of Orangewood Ave.
between Eckhoff St. and the SR -57 Fwy. northbound on -ramp.
Trudi Carabino
250 El Camino Real, Suite 210
Orange, Ca. 92870
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Was the request based on the safety issue or the
parking issue?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — A safety issue, but we have been out
there several times and the street was empty.
Chairman Beil — The Mar -West Real Estate letter request indicates sight.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Having said that I was wondering if splitting the
ditterence it a proposal could be considered to do a respectable sight distance
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measure like what we've seen at other entrances or intersections and leave that
parking but accommodate a safe sight distance measure.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That could be considered I believe the
proponent had noted that if parking could not be removed in total that perhaps
some red curb adjacent to the driveways could be implemented. In this case we
would probably only consider the easterly driveway which is closest to Eckhoff
St. because the westerly driveway is already within a NO STOPPING zone.
Commissioner Glasgow — I believe they rent space to people going to the Angel
games. I've parked on Orangewood before going to an Angel game in that area
and they have had people out there with their flags for parking in their parking
lot. So I have a small suspicion that may be part of their request that 30 -40 cars
can park there, I've rarely seen somebody park that close to the driveway, they
are pretty considerate.
Chairman Beil — I would be in favor if there was something staff would be
amenable to doing something to the easterly driveway for the vision zone
looking east.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — Based on our intersection sight
distance ordinance and that is a minimum 30 ft. plus 1 ft. for every mile per hour
the street is posted over 25 MPH and its posted at 40 MPH so you're looking at
40 -45 ft. on either side of the driveway.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I'd like to make a motion to install the standard vision
zone at the easterly driveway.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — From the westerly driveway which is
near their property line there is a NO STOPPING ANYTIME just east of this
which provides sight distance to motorists exiting here. Also, the driveway on
Eckhoff St. is within a existing NO STOPPING zone so again there are options
for motorists to exit.
Commissioner King — The sight distance is the problem for people coming out of
the parking lot being able to see oncoming traffic?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — Yes, that is the proponents claim.
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ACTION: Approved the installation of a standard 45 ft. red curb vision zone
on both sides of the easterly driveway of the subject property on
Orangewood Ave.
MOTION:
C. Vaughan
SECOND:
E. Glasgow
AYES:
Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau, Vaughan
NOES:
W. King
ABSTAIN:
None
End of Consideration Items
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
VI.ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral
Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic
Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - May 8, 2013
Respectfully submitted,
CITY OF ORANGE
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
12then@cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
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