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04-10-2013 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION Minutes of a Regular Meeting: April 10, 2013 I. OPENING A. Flag Pledge B. Roll Call Present — Commissioners: J. Beil, E. Glasgow, W. King, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan Present — Staff: A. Farahani, W. Winthers, D. Allenbach, D. Hoard, J. Bird, P. Then C. Approval of Minutes • February 13, 2013 - Minutes not available at this time. • March 13, 2013 - Minutes are not available at this time. II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS None this month. III. CONSENT CALENDAR None this month. g City of rang Public Works Department Tape #C'C -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744-5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] C40 Printed On Recycled Paper C Page 12 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS 1. Request to remove the following streets from Neighborhood Parking Permit Area R: a) Both sides of Salinas Court easterly of Santa Maria St. b) Both sides of San Luis Dr. east of Santa Cruz Ave. c) Both sides of Santa Cruz Ave. from San Luis Dr. to Santa Maria St. d) Both sides of Santa Maria St. between San Luis Dr. and Santa Cruz Ave. Requested by Steve Stahovich Shelly Aronson Taraneh Maleksaidi 7945 Salinas Ct. 248 S. Santa Maria St. 8127 E. San Luis Dr. Orange, Ca 92869 Orange, Ca 92869 Orange, Ca 92869 Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Suring Narang, 7903 Santa Cruz Ave — My concern is Santa Maria because my house faces it and we don't want any strangers parking there, its mainly a safety issue for us. My grandchildren come, they play around, now we see the cops and patrol around the area and it's pretty safe. The neighborhood is clean ever since it was enforced. Why are we here again? It was already done. Here we are again going through this and spending our time and your time. I have a letter from my neighbor also; they are in favor of keeping it. We bought our house because this is a good neighborhood and we pay Mello -Roos. We think this should stay and Santa Maria has to stay also because we are 3 houses from the corner. Anju Patel — 294 Santa Maria St — In favor of the parking permits because I have two busy streets right across from my house where people can park when they want to go to the park for jogging and they come up here to park. I have 10 yr. old twins and sometimes they play outside, this would be a lot of traffic issues and that is why I'm in favor of keeping the parking permits. iennie Le — 282 Santa Maria St . — In favor of keeping the permits and we don't want it lifted at all. The street is now quiet and it's clean and we do not want all that traffic inside and they will come in. We have two long streets that can park quite a few cars. If you lift the permit restrictions all the vehicles going to the park will come right inside to park. City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A, V�7 April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 14 Printed On Recycled Paper Page 13 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Barbara Chlupek - 262 Santa Maria St . - Opposed to lifting the ban for a bunch of reasons. We shouldn't be here, this was decided in December. You need to authenticate all of the signatures on the proposal because not all of them are real. At my house alone I told them I was opposed to the whole idea, they waited until my car was gone and they came back at 9 PM when I was out and they talked to my housemate; he wanted to get them out of his face so he signed it. He told me later he felt he was coerced; I know he's not the only one. I heard from one the other residents who just moved in that were told that if you live in the neighborhood here please sign this, they weren't told what the problem was. The problems are, first of all, we like not having the trash and I have letters from everybody to hand you. I have them from 4 other people as well as mine. We definitely do not want this to be lifted. If it is lifted you will see us again trying to get it put back. Peter's Canyon is Peter's Canyon Park. We don't want to be their parking lot they are now so popular that they fill up the enlarged parking lot. On top of that they leave behind trash, food wrappers, water bottles and other things, and then the neighborhood has to clean up. On top of that now we have people coming in that as someone told you in December, commit identify theft and have all kinds of problems along the lines of crime and then you have people without parking permits who are casing the area because its upscale for burglaries, if they don't have a permit in the car how do we know if they belong there. We have noise, pollution we don't want that to come back, we are happy the way it is. I have a friend who is a Ranger for the Orange County Parks and he told me off record that Peter's Canyon Park is so popular that they already have to close off the lot. When summer comes it's going to get a whole lot worse, and of course those people are going to park on our streets if this is lifted. All of the neighborhoods close to the Park already have permit parking; we want to keep it the way it is. I think the only reason people signed that was because they we either coerced or talked into it somehow. We don't have anything to gain by lifting the parking permit issue, we have everything to lose. Hans VanLigten - 308 Santa Maria St - I was opposed to the original imposition of the permit parking program both at the Traffic Commission and City Council. The reason we are here again is because when the Council approved it in response to comments from people like me they said you could bring it back in 6 months and circulate a petition and make adjustments as you deem necessary and that's what some of my neighbors dyid. I full support lifting it for the same reasons I opposed it in the beginning. The original staff report was very clear that mere was a minimal intrusion of traffic from the adjoining park. Your City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] VO Printed On Recycled Paper Page 14 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the Ci Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Traffic Engineer said there really is no problem, but if the neighborhood really wants it we can support it. There was not an intrusion problem, there was not a big need for it and I thought it was overkill and unnecessary, although some of my neighbors have a different issue because some of them are closer to the entrance to the park. With respect to my street, I was opposed to it. I have 5 children, many of them are driving age and when their friends come over they have to worry about getting tickets. Why? For no reason other than somebody is concerned about parking in the neighborhood and trash and all these other things that have never happened on Santa Maria St. The extent of the scope was too great and that is why it's being asked to be tailored. One of the reasons I was most upset with this after it was instituted is when the Crime Scene Investigator came to my house to ask about my car in front of my house on a Saturday because somebody was complaining about parking and he could not go do an investigation on a crime scene because we had to waste police resources to go do parking tickets in East Orange. That to me is an absurd waste of City resources. Kathy Reza - 8123 San Luis Dr . - I live at the corner of San Luis and Santa Cruz, and I've lived there 20 years; there is not a problem with traffic, trash, or a lot of the things these people are saying. I believe it's because they don't want anybody to park in front of their house. Now with the permit parking they are going around putting notes on people's cars harassing people and they are calling police all the time, they are wasting taxpayer money to come out giving people tickets. We had an expired permit and because we didn't have time to go get a new one when it expired we got a ticket ourselves. I don't believe the parking permits are a good idea, it's inconvenient, we have lots of family and friends and we entertain a lot and it very inconvenient. Steve Stahovich - 7945 Salinas Ct . - When this went through the first time my wife had signed the petition in favor of the permits to support the people on San Luis. Unfortunately we were misled and lied to about the scope it would encompass. I spoke with the Traffic staff about it, I spoke with my neighbors on Salinas Ct. about it, and every neighbor with exception of one who hasn't been home for several months was 100% against the permits. They felt that they were also lied to and misled originally. We've never had a problem on Salinas Ct., since the permit parking restrictions went into effect people who don't read, don't t read and they park right in front of that opening anyway. Nobody drives around the corner to go park anywhere else, it's not been an issue. Part of the City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department V!!7 A. April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] Co Printed On Recycled Paper 0 Page 15 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 issue also going back to the Park was that the Park Rangers would instruct people to go park in the adjacent communities when the lot was full. There was a dog show held at the park and on the hand -out promoting the event it was written that if the parking lot was full they should go across to Presidio Way and they will find parking in that community. Park users now know they can't do that, we haven't had an issue, there's no trash like everybody says, this isn't El Centro, and this isn't a bad place to live. This hasn't been a problem for the last 19 years and I don't foresee it to be a problem for the next 19 years. I believe the numbers of the signatures on the petition speak for themselves. It affects property values from 3 -10% depending on who to talk to. You also don't have the option of emergency passes and sorry if you don't plan it in advance you are out of luck. Brooke Delligatta — 8108 San Luis Dr . — My mom and I are happy that it's there because nobody is outside when I want to hang out with my friends, and there's not a lot of cars everywhere and random people going around and being odd. I like the permits and hope you will keep them. Cathy Delligatta — 8108 San Luis Dr . — The people here that are against permit parking are in areas where they don't have the problem, but they will. They don't understand that the signs are going to be taken down that say this block is parking by permit only; it will be replaced by end of parking by permit only, so they are going to get the problem. We are constantly getting people who are parking in there and the very first thing that they always ask me, where's the sign? And they also are asking where they can park within our area that doesn't require permits. I've had this problem ever since I have lived here, it's done northing except get worse, I've had people taking pictures of my daughter, I had trash, I've had dog poop, people laying in our yard resting at the end of their Peter's Canyon walk and people coming in a 3 AM and going to parties at houses off the areas around Peter's Canyon. Officers have seen our problem, they agree with the problem. The portion of San Luis where I live is going to keep the permit parking. The reason we are concerned about that is because the street where I live is the way in and out of the tract. We're still going to be getting the traffic, the foot traffic, dogs, and trash. The people living on Salinas Dr. I understand that they don't have the problem yet, neither do the people on Santa Maria St. but they will. They have no idea. It took 10 years and my money to get the permit parking restrictions implemented, there were able to get their removal petitions without any fees being paid at all, I don't find that real fair. g City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] V Printed On Recycled Paper 0 0 Page 16 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Bill Lusher — 8139 San Luis Dr . — We are not in favor of the permit parking, it is hard to manage, especially as we have a young son with visitors that continually come over and we're giving out parking permits in order to adhere to the rule and as soon as we do that everybody is gone and so are the parking permits. It's hard to manage to keep on top of it. We just had health care workers and doctors coming over to care for my father -in -law who was ill. We would hand the permits out to them as they would come and then they would go and the permits wouldn't be returned, it's a real chore to keep on top of these permits. Taraneh Maleksaeidi — 8127 San Luis Dr . — I attended the last meeting regarding this matter and I am in favor of the removal of the permit parking. I went around with the petition on Santa Cruz, Santa Maria and San Luis cul -de -sac. If my neighbors on the other side of San Luis want to keep their permits, I have no problem with that as long as we don't have to deal with that is the general consensus as I was circulating the petition; it's a nuisance, nobody wants it, we were happy with the way it was before. We would like the parking permit restrictions removed. Gary Groover — 8127 San Luis Dr . — I wasn't in favor of the permit parking in the first place. Public streets are for public access, now people want to use the Park, I've run into a lot of families that come home with their kids and their dog and they see this ticket $54.00 I've paid two of them while parked in front of my own house. I've heard the arguments that well it's safer and it creates less traffic. A real criminal is going to do what they want to do, a little sign indicating parking permits restrictions doesn't stop a thing. I was against this from the beginning and that's why we went around and got the petition signed. A lot of my neighbors felt that when they originally signed the petition it wasn't properly explained how it was going to work. Some of them were under the impression that it would only be at the area right at the "T" of Presidio and San Luis and I think that is why all these other streets are here. I'm asking that you please remove the permit restrictions. Stephen Amendt — 8100 San Luis Dr . — I live at the corner of Presidio and San Luis. The fundamental issue is safety that is the fundamental issue of this whole parking by permit only that we have put into our neighborhood. Last night I called the police because there was a car parked out there at 10:30 PM and it was people going into the park. We've had issues with people taking pictures of their children, people loitering in our neighborhood, people throwing trash in our neighborhood. I also had this issue; I got this letter from one of my neighbors on g City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] V# Printed On Recycled Paper 'i.d Page 17 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commiss April 10, 2013 Santa Cruz who asked me to read it to you today because he was unable to attend. He points out that trash has been littered on both curbs along the sides of San Luis and Santa Cruz; they use the mailbox as a stretch area and mailbox posts as stretch boards, and then went through and stole our mail. From stolen mail credit and convenience checks were used, credit cards were stolen and used, personal information was also used to obtain loans and other credit cards. As a result we became victims of identity theft; this has all been reported to the Orange PD. He writes further. "Please keep this parking permit policy in place it gives us peace of mind knowing no strangers would frequent our area anymore and as a result preventing theft and trash littering from our neighborhood." I understand that some of the people of our neighborhood have not experienced this first hand, but the fact is that they know that some of their neighbors have experienced this and I find their attitude somewhat appalling to be quite frank, that they don't care about the rest of their neighbors, particularly as it pertains to theft to at least make this work. We have a number of people on San Luis who do not seem to have the same issues as you people do with respect to making the permits work and I'm sure there are some people out there who have kids and there are some people that have parties. I also point out that a certain family had a party on Easter Sunday and they had cars parked on the street without permits, we did not call the police on them, we only directed our comments to those people going in to Peter's Canyon. We've been very sensitive to the fact that when we do call the police, particularly the parking enforcement that they will circulate around and look for other cars. The police have been great. We would really like people to step back and think about this whole issue, this is a safety issue and if you allow these little islands of safety for these people to come in at night and do whatever they may in Peter's Canyon or our neighborhood, and I believe that the officer would know that we have had issues with people coming in and sealing things and robbing the houses within our neighborhood. As a matter of fact, my brother -in -law who used to live at this corner of Santa Maria and Santa Cruz, the furthest point from entry over to Peter's Canyon this house was broken into. I would ask that you reconsider what has been put before you and think about the neighborhood as a whole, who when this was initially passed was a 73% majority. If you look at the video tape of the City Council meeting they did not ask nor did they suggest that streets should be carved up as have been suggested with the cul -de -sac and San Luis. I can understand if the cul -de -sac at Salinas Ct. is pulled off and if they do get a majority of people in those streets that really don't want it I understand that. But to carve up San Luis I don't believe it's fair to the people living in the cul -de -sac nor is it fair to the rest of the people on San Luis. City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A, � April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] I!# Printed On Recycled Paper 0 Page 18 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further comments, consideration, and a decision. Vice Chairman Vaughan — It seems there is some kind of disparity between the majority it seemed we had at the time we voted on this, and the people we have coming forward now who have both experienced it firsthand and maybe feel they were led to believe this would be something that it wasn't. I was wondering if that number reflects that numbers on the petition. Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Are we talking about the residents who spoke right now, compared to the percentage we have on the petitions. Vice Chairman Vaughan — I think it might be too hard of a questions to answer right now because I believe if we count them up we might have some new participants who didn't oppose it that might have been in favor of it originally and maybe have changed their mind. So I'm wondering if it might be in order for us to go back and have the City do a new count and get a more specific and verifiable number based on what we have seen tonight. Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — City Council directed staff to comply with the guidelines and assist the residents that want to be out of the program. The guidelines give us the ability to prepare the petitions and give the applicants the goal to go with a good faith effort. The same thing happened the first time, so if the applicants make a good faith effort to obtain the signatures either in favor or opposed, and in some cases as you see are not home. Not being home for opposition are considered the same. When we calculate the percentage the percentage of in favor of that, in this case the removal, is divided by the total of the residents. If that is the direction from the Commission staff would do that, it would be the first time we would have had to do that. Chairman Beil — I think the only comparison we have is the surveys that were taken when the permit program was initiated versus the surveys noted on the overlay of the existing survey we have now just to see what change the thinking is. However, we also have the guidance regarding the minimum majority of the 55% either in favor of the removal or in favor of keeping the permits, in this case. We could almost anticipate this would be coming back sometime in the future that we know it's an issue of the County park, it's being over - parked, it is a base camp for hiking and mountain biking, so we knew that a minimal parking zone City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:[Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] W Printed On Recycled Paper 0 Page 19 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 implementation there is spill -over and they immediately would go the adjacent streets. To what degree, the Commission doesn't know, we have to rely on the surveys that go out to your neighborhoods and tell us, based on the guidance if you meet the percentage. There is no way this process satisfies everybody in these neighborhoods so that is the other thing we need to consider is that the democratic majority of 55% is the guidance on acceptance. The original addition to this permit parking area, was it exactly overlaid on all these streets? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — It did except on San Luis Dr. San Luis Dr. from Santa Cruz to Santa Maria we took it out with the understanding that nobody came forward to request the removal. But in other areas as highlighted those are the 3 people who approached the city and requested a petition to circulate and remove their sections. Commissioner Beil — Regarding what the Commission decides tonight what happens to this item if we make a decision tonight? Does it go to Council? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Yes it would go to the Council for the final approval. Vice Chairman Vaughan — I want to properly represent the majority of the population of that neighborhood. I feel conflicted because I thought I heard some people say there was some misrepresentation on the description of the petition, but I also heard some heartfelt facts about what people are going through that are most affected. I wonder if this could be vetted more properly and specifically. I noted there were some signatures on some of the streets that were not contacted, I don't know if they would be in favor or if they would be opposed and I don't know what the count is on the card of people who might have voted for the petition the first time but changed their mind now based on either their experience or because they didn't understand it properly. I think Santa Cruz is of specific concern because they are so far removed from the main avenue. I think it would be looked into in greater detail and maybe something more specifically done by staff to personally contact and make sure that at the end of the day if it is still 55% that we can honestly say that we've put our best foot forward in making sure everyone is properly represented. Commissioner King — I've been on the Commission a few years and I've never seen more than a dozen people around, this is really staggering, there must be a rea not issue out there. I'm sure many of you disagree and did agree th have City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. L:� April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] I? Printed On Recycled Paper C `•,,, Page 110 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 changed your mind but this is a process and most of you I think would agree that the process ought to work and there has been money paid to get this done and it gets an automatic appeal to the City Council and we know the only thing we have to go by is what the staff have put together and I think did what they could. I'd make a proposal that we approve what the staff has recommended. Commissioner Lebeau - I would be heard before entertaining a second on that. I have some concerns about the petition itself. In going through them and for example the first one for the answers on the first sheet of the petition that is the 7000 block of Salinas Ct. four of the answers have been changed. Flipping over to the report for Santa Maria we had the speaker at 262 represent that the signature gatherer was coercing that signature. Moving to the answers from 282 and 294 which are reported here to have refused to talk or not home, who came today and spoke in opposition to this petition. If you change those two answers then on that street you have 5 in favor and 4 opposed. I have concerns about the signature gathering process if it is an accurate representation of the residents attitude towards this matter and seeing the numerous changed answers on the petition, seeing this representation that someone refused to talk or were not home and is here today speaking against the matter makes me wonder if they were genuinely attempted to be contacted. I am not in favor of staff's recommendation at this point with this set of petitions because of these irregularities. Chairman Beil - We have a motion on the floor from Commissioner King, do we have a second? I'm going to go ahead and second that motion myself. We have the guidelines and I find it very difficult to be the judge of the accuracy of a residential signature collection survey. We can't tell if there have been changes I think Vice Chairman Vaughan has made some valid points on what has changed from the original. That just gives us one data set; it does not tell us the reasons why things have changed. ACTION: Approved the request and forward to the City Council for final action. MOTION: King SECOND: Beil AYES: Beil, Glasgow, King NOES: Lebeau, Vaughan ABSTAIN: None City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 14 Printed On Recycled Paper Page 111 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 2. Request for the implementation of "NO STOPPING 7 AM TO 4 PM EVERYDAY" on both sides of Taft Ave. between Cambridge St. and Shaffer St. for the installation of Class II bike lanes. Traffic Engineering Division CITY OF ORANGE Commissioner Lebeau — Did you conduct and traffic counts on the weekends? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No we did not. Commissioner Lebeau — We have no idea how intensive parking is in this area on the weekends? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No we do not. Commissioner Lebeau — You mentioned there are 2 churches nearby? Dave Allenbach Transportation Analyst — Yes, going back to the aerial exhibit. There is Kingdom Hall located at the westerly end of the subject area, and they have 114 -150 stalls in their parking lot. Just to the west of the study area is St. Norbert's Catholic Church, they have approximately 300 parking spaces in their parking lot. Commissioner Lebeau — With the nature of the religious worship would it be a safe question to say that this area might be more heavily parked on the weekends than the weekdays? Dave Allenbach Transportation Analyst — It's possible; we just had Easter, one of the big holidays on the Christian calendar. During that time and on Christmas day I don't believe there is a church parking lot large enough to accommodate all the church goers on those two days of the year and so there may be a high demand for on- street parking in this area at those times, however, at least 5 days a week there is essentially no demand for on- street parking in this area and that includes after work hours when people would be home. Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — In the segment of study there is only one church. City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. ' ag Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 0 Printed On Recycled Paper Page 112 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Commissioner King — When did the vote come up for the bike lane on the rest of Taft from Cambridge to Tustin? Has it been implemented yet? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That was approved last August; and yes it is operational now. Chairman Beil — Was there any consideration regarding the 7 AM to 4 PM Monday thru Friday? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No but that is also based on the level of parking demand we've seen in the area. Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — We want to be consistent with the other segments which were from 7 to 4 except one section. In order to be consistent that was the case. We didn't expect that much opposition to this project. In the period of time we are in the process of a study, we didn't notice on weekdays any demand for on- street parking in that segment of Taft Ave. we are surprised by all the e- mails. Chairman Beil — Do we think we have enough information to decide now and should I hear the public testimony now? Vice Chairman Vaughan — Based on your knowledge of the e -mails was there one general theme or consensus about this issue that you could share with us? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Yes it was and most of the residents are from the 700 E. Taft Ave., their concern was, they do have adequate parking for their own but many times when they have visitors they have no place and all visitors and guests have to park on the street, on Taft Ave. That was pretty much the same on all of their concerns. Vice Chairman Vaughan — Was there a distinction made that you know between weekdays and weekends? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — No there was no differentiation. Commissioner Glasgow — Other than 700 E. Taft nothing else faces Taft Ave., especially on the north half, everything backs up to Taft Ave. City of Tape ACTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. t� April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] C? Printed On Recycled Paper X ?•',, Paae 113 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — Nothing on the north side, it's all residential and they all back on Taft Ave. On the south side there is a church, a public library and Golden Circle tract at 700 E. Taft Ave. Chairman Beil — Circumstances on this stretch of Taft Ave. as far as frontage of driveways or in a community like this is very different than the section immediately east that was previously approved. Because of the complex at 700 E. Taft it is not a traditional residential area that has more of a condo complex parking arrangement. That is what makes it so very different that the stretch to the east where there was one small apartment complex that had a issue with under - parking on their side and having to over park on the street that we had to deal with. This is the much larger scale of the same issue that we've faced previously. Vice Chairman Vaughan — Wasn't there several variations of bike lanes discussed? We talked about the type of bike lanes where you could park and drive at the same time as opposed to ones where parking was restricted? I don't know if it was shared with people in our audience that there are variations. No one would disagree that bike lanes are a good thing, they make it easier for people to travel our streets there are using them anyway. As I heard I don't think anybody opposes the fact that there is a tremendous amount of bicycle traffic, but there are variations of ways we can adjust the bike lanes and signage. I just wondered if that was shared in the process. Chairman Beil — Maybe we could ask if staff looked into the bike lanes striped just on the outside of the parallel parking area along the curb, is there enough width in this section and would it be viable to do that in the eastbound direction for this stretch? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — We did not evaluate that option we discussed it previously but we are more than happy to take back all your comments and suggestions to review and evaluate them. Chairman Beil — For the audience, this option allows parking against the curb and actually does a striping pattern outside of the parked vehicle. This is in conformance with the Manual For Uniform Traffic Control Devices which is really the guiding design document that is used in court all the time as to what designs are implemented. It needs to be studied to see if the geometric conditions, the speed make it applicable to the use in this location. That would City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. � April 2013 [N:/rraffic /CTC /2012 Nvfinutes] V# Printed On Recycled Paper Page 114 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 have to be looked at by staff. I'm not willing to direct them until a proper study has been done. Commissioner Glasgow - I share your concerns and I would make a motion that we hold this over so staff can do that study. Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion on this item. Melissa Chicklo, 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #12 - Opposed to the bike lane. I'm one of the board members for our community and this impacts us greatly during the week. I know there have been surveys out with the lines going out and I live right in front facing Taft and I have never seen that many bicyclists going up and down Taft. We have a cabana our homeowner's may use during the day and when it is being uses we ask that guests park on Taft Ave. We don't have the parking in the complex to accommodate everybody that wants to park on Taft along with the homeowners. We do that because the homeowners have a right to park where they live, so we asks guests to park out on Taft. We are the only ones besides the church and the library in that little section that use Taft for parking, and there is more parking on Taft during the day, I'm home every day and I see it. If there has to be a bike lane there where the parking is restricted, it needs to be on the north side of the street as opposed to the south side. On weekends both churches park up and down Taft Ave. all day. Pat Niverson, 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #22 - Opposed to the bike lane. If you look at that map we have 44 units in our complex. If you put in this bike lane I'm going to have my visitors park at least 2 blocks to Taft and if you put in the bike lane another 2 blocks. So that means my family and friends will be parking 5 blocks away to visit me. This is just not something we want on Taft Ave. Chris Ash, 1753 N. Maplewood St - In favor of adding the bike lane down Taft. I have 2 kids that I like to take on bike rides and cars go down that street pretty fast, it's kind of a safety issue, it's also often turns into a used car sales lot with people selling cars, and I don't feel safe with my kinds being going down that way by themselves. Between Cambridge and Tustin where the bike lane did get installed, there were 2 churches along that stretch as well and they seem to be okay with that there as well. City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] Of Printed On Recycled Paper C 0 Page 115 Minutes of a Regular Meeting o f the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Ken Eldridge, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #7 — Opposed to losing on- street parking along Taft Ave. I think the Commission is on the right track in reevaluating the type of bike lane that may be placed there, I have not measured the street myself but it looks to me that there is plenty of room to do such a thing so I will leave it to your good judgment. Scott Miller, 20221 E. Frank Ln. — I'm one of the managing directors of the 534 E. Taft Ave. Kingdom Hall and out of respect of the Commission's time we have discussed this issue and decided we would have one or two speak on our behalf. By a show of hands everyone in the audience please raise your hands. We're here to speak against eliminating the parking along Taft Ave. We are in favor of bike lanes because some of our members and the public take rides to our property. Having been established in the neighborhood for 50 years, having had good neighbors from the 700 address. We've observed the impact of parking on that street from our activities, from our neighbor's activities, and even from St. Norbert's Church down the street which is not yet affected by this. Especially on the weekends that street gets filled with parking cars. For those reasons and for what it would do to disrupt the harmony in the neighborhood, we've taken some steps to try to be good neighbors. We have had occasions where buses will come to pick up and drop off some of our attendees, and in an attempt not to disrupt the neighbors at 700 and the neighbors that face Schaffer St. we direct those buses not come in to our generous parking lot, because we don't want the noise to disrupt our neighbors and their activities. We understand our activity is different from our residential neighbors thus we ask them to park on the street, which they do. Additionally, as commented before, certain activities through the calendar year generate a much larger attendance of the public than we would typically have. To help offset that recently we rented a facility to offset the impact we would have on street parking and we still feel packed up. We're in favor of exploring other options that would provide both a bike lane while allowing on- street parking and it appears that both options could work on Taft Ave. Richard Tepe, 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #34 — Opposed to this. Last Sunday I counted in the morning and early afternoon at the Kingdom Hall that there were 16 cars on the street at one time and 12 at another time. St. Norbert's has the same problem and when they have their Octoberfest the entire Taft, Shaffer everyplace is wiped out completely. We are wiped out for 3 days. We are a small facility with a small parking lot and parties take place and there are 10 -15 cars out there all the time. The weekends should be checked out definitely. City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 1 V4# Printed On Recycled Paper Page 116 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Melissa Knopes 1746 N Maplewood St — In favor installing the bike lane, it promotes health and safety. I have 2 young daughters and I would ride with them in the bike lane, I wouldn't let them go by themselves. I do not see a lot of weekend parking especially the signage that would say from 7 - 4, that seems like a flexible time. When the churches are crowded along that area it's usually because they are having a special festival after 4 pm or some special meeting. For the safety and for the access of health that is promoted in our beautiful City of Orange I do believe we should have a bike lane. Scott Winer, 534 E. Taft Ave. — Out of respect for your time and how our expressions have already been made, we are going to waive the right to speak at this time. Art Mattson, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #5 — We do not object to bike lanes parked on the street, we strenuously object to the area being designated as NO PARKING for any period of time. There are bike lanes everywhere in the County where you can have both. I'm willing to negotiate that. If this proposal was for bicyclists' safety it simply is not necessary. There has not been an accident or a mishap in the 26 years I have resided here. There is plenty of room to fit the bike lane in and I would propose you put it in on the north side of the street. It's unusual but I've seen them before where you can have a 2 -Way Bike Lane on side of the street, it's an alternative that be considered. The count results indicate there are up to 300 people using the bike lanes, we have never seen these people, and who are they? Did a bike club go through one day and you got them? Most days nobody parks on the street. If the parking restrictions are put in where are all these people going to park that currently use Taft Ave.? Not in the Library next door because there are signs in there indicating the parking is for Library customers only. There are a lot of instances where there is a need for parking and I urge you to deny the request. Angie Mattson, 700 E. Taft Ave Unit #5 — Waive her turn her points have already been made. Mike Burgess, 299 N. St. College St. Unit #3029 — Waive his turn to speak and his points have already been made. Tames Yeah , 700 E. Taft Ave. Unit #6 — I fully support a happy medium with bicyclists and pe9ople parking on the street. I have a lot of medical p roblems City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang EPI , .ase contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. pril 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 10 Printed On Recycled Paper 0 10 Page 117 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 and parking 5 -6 blocks away isn't possible for me on Sunday's, it will have a severe impact on many people if you eliminate parking. Ken Mendun, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #26 — I find it amazing that you have done a survey on the street and it's a residential street with 2 churches and yet you didn't do any counting on the weekend. This is unbelievable to me; this is when everybody is parking on the street. There are a lot of people that park on that street during the church services on Sunday's and that would impact them. My hope would be that you would instruct the Traffic Engineer to complete the survey as it should have been done to include the weekend. Louise Irving - Mendum, 700 E. Taft Ave., Unit #26 — I am in favor of a safe bike lane, I've raised 3 children myself, I know how scary it is as a mom, but I really believe there is a happy medium. We cannot afford to lose our parking, I just rented the clubhouse for a birthday party and we were so strict that nobody could park inside the complex and everybody complied. If you take away the parking on Taft Ave. they wouldn't have had their party. We have a lot of activities in our community. Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further discussion and a motion. Chairman Beil — We had a discussion about continuing this for some additional surveys. Vice Chairman Vaughan — I just want to say I am greatly encouraged by the participation here it's wonderful to see everyone come out and be able to speak their mind, we're here to represent you and this is the most people I have ever seen at a Traffic Commission meeting. Chairman Beil — I'm glad they didn't want parking permits. Vice Chairman Vaughan — I'm also greatly encouraged that everybody recognizes that there really is no harm in bike lanes, bike lanes are a good thing, they are stripes on the street. I am a bike rider, this gentlemen and this other gentleman is a bike rider and I think what we have heard is everybody's willingness to come up with a solution. Having said that I hope that the spokeswman would review the options and that they get together with staff and Cityof Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department R t� April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] V4P Printed On Recycled Paper M 10 Paee 118 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 I would like to recommend that we put this over for further consideration to continue this to the next meeting. Chairman Beil - Do we want to give staff anything specific to look at such as weekend counts? Amir would have to figure out who would go out and do that. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - Oh I think we already know who goes out and does that. Chairman Beil - I would suggest we give some recommendations to staff to also look at weekend counts, look at the applicability of the bike lane next to parallel curb parking. Commissioner King - How is the bike lane structured at the other end of the street? Is parking still available there with the bike lane on the outside? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer - Yes it is, well there is 8 ft. of bike lane from 7 AM to 4 PM except one section which was compromised from 8:30 AM to 3:30 PM but in the afternoon cars can park because we know the activity of the bikers is much less in the afternoon after 4 PM. Chairman Beil - We've looked at the applicability the problem particularly in the other section it was if we could use that striping detail next to parking in the westbound direction. There was a lot of difficulty due to the area where it transitions approaching Tustin St. that made it troublesome you don't want to be transitioning back and forth continually. Vice Chairman Vaughan - Hopefully the spokespeople will be able to get with staff discover all of the viable options and educate yourselves on what they are and come up with a consensus. Chairman Beil - When staff takes a look at some specific things on the staff report that comes back we'll hopefully something will work out and they will have some things they will present that will be viable. Commissioner Glasgow - On your average daily ridership graph it looks like your weekends are your down time, Saturday and Sunday, it looks like Sunday was 317 yet you have your ridership down on Sunday a long way and then your 10 0 1 City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 1 40 Printed On Recycled Paper Page 119 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 Saturday is still down. That may lead to a 5 -day restriction or limited and lifting it for parking on the weekend. Chairman Beil — That's another thing we can look at, maybe formalize the staff recommendation as far as continuality with the section of roadway to the left if you do different timing. Amir how long do you think this will take to vet this out a little more? Amir Farahani, City Traffic Engineer — 3 -4 months. Chairman Beil — That would put us into our August meeting. ACTION: Continued this to the August meeting with the additional research and vetting of ideas. MOTION: C. Vaughan SECOND: W. King AYES: Unanimous NOES: None ABSTAIN: None 3. Request to prohibit on- street parking from the north side of Orangewood Ave. between Eckhoff St. and the SR -57 Fwy. northbound on -ramp. Trudi Carabino 250 El Camino Real, Suite 210 Orange, Ca. 92870 Vice Chairman Vaughan — Was the request based on the safety issue or the parking issue? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — A safety issue, but we have been out there several times and the street was empty. Chairman Beil — The Mar -West Real Estate letter request indicates sight. Vice Chairman Vaughan — Having said that I was wondering if splitting the ditterence it a proposal could be considered to do a respectable sight distance City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] V4f Printed On Recycled Paper Paee 120 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 measure like what we've seen at other entrances or intersections and leave that parking but accommodate a safe sight distance measure. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That could be considered I believe the proponent had noted that if parking could not be removed in total that perhaps some red curb adjacent to the driveways could be implemented. In this case we would probably only consider the easterly driveway which is closest to Eckhoff St. because the westerly driveway is already within a NO STOPPING zone. Commissioner Glasgow — I believe they rent space to people going to the Angel games. I've parked on Orangewood before going to an Angel game in that area and they have had people out there with their flags for parking in their parking lot. So I have a small suspicion that may be part of their request that 30 -40 cars can park there, I've rarely seen somebody park that close to the driveway, they are pretty considerate. Chairman Beil — I would be in favor if there was something staff would be amenable to doing something to the easterly driveway for the vision zone looking east. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — Based on our intersection sight distance ordinance and that is a minimum 30 ft. plus 1 ft. for every mile per hour the street is posted over 25 MPH and its posted at 40 MPH so you're looking at 40 -45 ft. on either side of the driveway. Vice Chairman Vaughan — I'd like to make a motion to install the standard vision zone at the easterly driveway. Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — From the westerly driveway which is near their property line there is a NO STOPPING ANYTIME just east of this which provides sight distance to motorists exiting here. Also, the driveway on Eckhoff St. is within a existing NO STOPPING zone so again there are options for motorists to exit. Commissioner King — The sight distance is the problem for people coming out of the parking lot being able to see oncoming traffic? Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — Yes, that is the proponents claim. City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] C? Printed On Recycled Paper Pai;e 121 Minutes of a Regular Meeting of the City Traffic Commission April 10, 2013 ACTION: Approved the installation of a standard 45 ft. red curb vision zone on both sides of the easterly driveway of the subject property on Orangewood Ave. MOTION: C. Vaughan SECOND: E. Glasgow AYES: Beil, Glasgow, Lebeau, Vaughan NOES: W. King ABSTAIN: None End of Consideration Items V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS None this month. VI.ADJOURNMENT After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations, the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission. The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled: 5:30 P.M. Wednesday - May 8, 2013 Respectfully submitted, CITY OF ORANGE Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary Traffic Engineering Division 12then@cityoforange.org CITY OF ORANGE PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT 300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE ORANGE CA 92866 PH: (714) 744 -5536 FAX: (714) 744 -5573 City of Tape #CTC -33.03 of this City Traffic Commission meeting is available for your review. rang Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated. Public Works Department A. B April 2013 [N:/Traffic /CTC /2012 Minutes] 1 4P Printed On Recycled Paper