08-10-2016 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: August 10, 2016
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present - Commissioners: J. Beil, L. Dick, C. Vaughan
Absent - Commissioners: A. Feliz, M. Lebeau
Present — Staff: J. Scott, M. Llanes, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. B. Marcotte, P. Then
C. Approval of Minutes
♦ June 10, 2016 — Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION:
C. Vaughan
SECOND:
L. Dick
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this meeting.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
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ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission August 10, 2016
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for 3 -hour time limit parking with red curb markings for the driveway
serving the business complex at 853 N. Shattuck Pl. and 3 -hour time limit
parking in front of the church at 840 N. Shattuck Pl.
Glen & Steven Nelson
83 -864 N. Shattuck Pl.
Orange, Ca. 92868
Pastor Bubba Lipscomb
840 N. Shattuck Pl.
Orange, Ca. 92868
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Emily Pierotti, 795 N. Lincoln St . — I'm not really in favor of or opposed to this I
just have a question, since having limited parking might affect residents on
Shattuck Pl., and not having the limited parking might affect businesses or the
local church. Would it be possible to create a permit for residents like they do
near Chapman University? Where you may only park on a block with a permit.
Chairman Beil — We can try to connect you with Dave or the City Traffic
Engineer, we have a city parking permit program that is available, there is a
process that it has to go through. That is an option.
Emily Pierotti, 795 N. Lincoln St . — If the 3 -Hour parking was enforced I don't
know how that would affect the surrounding neighborhood and the school at the
end of the street.
Chairman Beil — It is possible that the parking problem would migrate over to
Lincoln St. at night.
Steven Nelson, 853 N. Shattuck Pl . — Thank you very much for painting the curbs
in front of our office at 853 N. Shattuck Pl. it's been a help. Since our last meeting
we're still experiencing over - parking on the street. We installed a camera system
on our building for security due to the lack of visibility from the street for our
building. I have some pictures that I gave your people that show the parking
that exists on that street at night. The car maintenance, the commercial vehicles
that are parked there, repeat parking in front of our office. From what we
understand it is against the law to have a commercial vehicle parked on the
street at night. On Wednesday, street sweeping day a couple of weeks ago, I
called Jacki Scott regarding the parking on the street and she said to contact the
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Police. I contacted the Police that day and also today, and when I contacted the
Police they told me they don't have the staff to handle that. It seems that no one
is handling the people that are parking on the street on street sweeping days. I
spoke with 3 of the street sweepers that were on the street today, they said they
haven't seen anyone for weeks working with them to ticket the cars when they
are cleaning the streets. If the 3 hour parking is a problem then maybe we could
have no overnight parking from 10 pm to 6 am, I don't want to throw in another
option if the 3 hours is something the Commission would be willing to do I
would be willing to go along with that. If there is some other way to go that
would be more acceptable to the City we would look at that.
Chairman Beil — What time of night were these taken, these are from the day, I
assume they are after 10 pm?
Steven Nelson, 853 N. Shattuck Pl . — They're after dark, but you see the same cars
showing up on one side of the street one night and one side of the street the next
night. On Monday I came in to the office and there was 1 parking space in front
of our office and my Secretary took it before me, unfortunately that was all we
had. I see the pictures that were taken at night it's a completely different
situation.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — What time of the morning do they clear out? Or do
they remain all day?
Steven Nelson, 853 N. Shattuck Pl . — Some of them remain all day. Some people
bring in vans for other people to pick them up, but usually they stay all day, and
today there were 3 or 4 cars left on the street that were not ticketed and today is
street sweeping day.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Bel — I empathize with you on the overnight parking and this
becoming a park and ride lot to travel back to over - densified multi -unit
dwellings. It's happening by my house too over here off Palmyra. Usually by 10
pm the streets fill up and I see people parking their cars then hopping into other
cars and driving back to apartments. It's happening all over the County in fact.
Commercial vehicle, we'll ask for some advice on that in a second. Regarding
street sweeping, they usually have their own enforcement that travels with the
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street sweeper, maybe we could get some comments and clarification on that.
Once the street sweeper goes through you may park there, they are not going to
ticket if the sweeper has already been through.
Dave Allenbach Transportation Analyst - I'm not sure how the street sweeping
is enforced because that's not in our area. Typically it's called the spirit of the
law, once the vehicle is off the street the sweeper can come through and clean,
once he has gone through even though it's posted for a 4 -hour parking
restriction, he has cleaned the street and he's not coming back, so if somebody
comes by afterward and parks there it's okay.
Chairman Beil - I don't see a continuing issue during business hours, the
ongoing concern is you put no overnight parking out there, it's an overnight
parking issue and if you try to limit that it will move to the next neighboring
street. All the neighboring streets are residential, there is also the multi-unit
dwellings just to the south of this location on the west side of Shattuck that are
pretty severely under parked and I wouldn't doubt that a number of these
vehicles there at night are from those multi -unit dwelling units on Shattuck. I'm
not going to be in favor of making any further changes, I think with a little bit of
enforcement it can work itself out. I will turn this over to the police to comment
on enforcement of commercial vehicle parking and what the rules are.
Sgt. Brian Marcotte OPD Traffic Bureau - We went out there for 30 days and we
monitored the area. We had 2 parking control officers that monitored that area
they were told to look at it in the morning before noon, and they work until 5
pm, and then check it once again in the evening hours or late afternoon. As a
result they didn't see anything in regards to a problem with parking during the
daytime. As far as commercial vehicles go they're not operating at night as far as
parking control goes. So if we have commercial vehicles being parked there
overnight that is an issue, that is something that the residents would have to call
on and the police department can respond. Our Municipal Code 10.34.060 is in
regards to commercial vehicles. There is an exception, which is "... if they are
mechanically disabled or while they are loading or unloading merchandise,
goods or building materials or when such vehicle is parked in connection with or
in the performance of a service to or on a property in the block upon which the
vehicle is parked or left standing."
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Chairman Beil — There is only one vehicle I see in those pictures that could be a
commercial vehicle that parks there every night it appears. It's a stake -bed truck,
I'm not even sure that's considered commercial.
Sgt. Brian Marcotte O(PD Traffic Bureau — That stake -bed truck, I don't believe
qualifies as a commercial vehicle, it's got to be 84 inches wide and the wheel
diameter has to be greater than 17 inches, and I don't think that looks like that
rim size is larger than 17 inches. For any motor truck or tractor with or without
an attached trailer 2 of the following or more features have to be present, "the
diameter of the wheel has to be 17 inches or larger, it has to have 2 or more axles,
having more than 2 wheels on any one axle and having a storage bed greater
than 16 feet length." Now if this bed on the truck is greater than 16 ft., and it
doesn't look to be, it does have the 2 wheels on the back and it would qualify, but
just looking at it doesn't look like it has a 16 ft. bed at all.
Commissioner Dick — I would appreciate someone helping me out on this
parking code violation regarding the street sweeping. As I explained before I
have my morning paper route, me and the attack basset, as we go around the
neighborhood we pick up the papers and throw them onto the porch, and I see
the street sweeper because they start in our neighborhood and for years there
was a code enforcement officer that followed and I had noticed that has been
missing. Have we decided that it doesn't pay for itself? Do people not pay the
citations, or what?
Sgt. Brian Marcotte OPD Traffic Bureau — This is true. Several years back there
was a hiring freeze, and we have lost a number of parking control officers. We
are literally down to two officers for our entire City that do that job. One of them
is having some personal issues so he is not on the job that often, so literally it
narrows down to 1 person on some days that we have for the entire City. We are
in the process of hiring but the priority is we hire the police officers first, then
dispatchers, and then it trickles down.
ACTION: Approved the staff recommendation to deny the request
MOTION
J. Beil
SECOND
L. Dick
AYES
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
g A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
e Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission August 10, 2016
2. Request for red curb markings on Cambridge St. south of Lake Dr. in front of
843/849 E. Fairway Dr.
Eleanor Chapman
700 E. Lake Dr., #142
Orange, Ca. 92866
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Irma Calata- Rogers, 700 E. Lake Dr #140 - In favor of the red curb. I have had
an incident happen twice even though they have no marked parking in that area
they still park there. I go to work before 8 am and it's when there is a lot more
cars coming in and out, there are 3 -4 cars in line behind me, and I try to inch out
to see if I can turn left, and a couple of times a mom with 2 children on the bike
comes right up to me because I'm looking this way and I don't see her coming
the other way and they don't expect me to be coming out either. That's scary to
me. When I leave between 7:30 - 8:00 there is heavy traffic with lots of cars going
both ways.
Kathleen Dolaway - 700 E. Lake Dr #61 & #58 - In favor of request. I had an
accident here. I have known of at least 2 -3 other accidents as well. When I was
trying to pull out, and I have to pull out maybe 2 yds. past the striped bike lane
so I can see oncoming traffic, skateboarders are coming across Lake Dr. and one
of the people parking the large truck came north on Cambridge, took a U -turn
across Lake and I would have been hit by either the truck or the skateboarder, so
I just put my car in reverse and backed into the truck behind me. It turned out
about 3 weeks later he experienced the same thing there. With the proximity to
the Santiago Creek walking trail and bike trail we have people coming in and out
of there at all times of the day and night, and they also make a U -turn at Lake Dr.
to turn there because the turn into the bike trail is very sharp. I don't want to see
anybody get hurt so we're looking out for safety of all people using the parks. I
went out this afternoon about 2 pm and there wasn't anyone parked on
Cambridge at all, it was wonderful, I could see everything approaching and
make my left turn. That isn't the case, particularly at night, people are still using
the walking trail after business hours in the dark, and it can be pretty scary there.
Maybe approve it on a temporary basis and give it a try for 3 -6 months and see
how it works out.
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Commissioner Dick — When was the incidence of that accident?
Kathleen Dolaway — 700 E. Lake Dr. #61 & #58 — In the last two months.
Eleanor Chapman, 700 E. Lake Dr. #142 — In favor of the request. This is the
same information that I gave to the City Council. There are 200 cars coming out
of Lake Dr. somewhere each day, then if you go further it's Fairway and there
are a 100 coming out every day. On the other side there is 100+ coming out.
What I measured from Lake Dr. to Fairway was 75 feet, and I guess you
measured differently. Of course there are those two spots that we would like to
see removed and I have a petition for 81 people who said they were having
problems. The bicycles are coming against traffic and they have to move out
around us and they come from Cambridge really fast. The bikes coming from
the bike trail feel they have the right -of -way to cross immediately and they get
very angry with us coming out of Lake Dr. It's a very dangerous area and there
are at least 400 cars coming and going through here every morning and evening.
Paul Bennett, 843 E. Fairway Dr . — Opposes the request. My front door faces
Cambridge and it's a very convenient place for me to park to unload my car if
I'm dropping something off without having to park around the corner. The
photos I took earlier are pictures with a vehicle parked there, there was also For
Sale signs for the residences down on Lake Dr. which obstruct the view,
especially for a car. There was some shrubbery between the tree and the STOP
sign, I went out there and I removed the shrubbery. I'm not sure who owns the
tree, what property line it falls under.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Do you know who owns the SUV's that are usually
there?
Paul Bennett, 843 E. Fairway Dr .— That's my neighbor, they live at 849 Fairway
they are the further one back closest to Lake Dr.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Do they have one or both of those vehicles that are
usually parked there? I've seen them there.
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Paul Bennett, 843 E. Fairway Dr . - They have a white SUV and a pick -up truck, I
have a pick -up truck and my girlfriend has a van, so depending on who is doing
grocery shopping or dropping off children for the day is who gets to park there
for the day. I'm happy the way things are. I'm concerned with the speeds on
Cambridge between LaVeta and Fairhaven. I'm afraid to have my kids play
outside.
Jennifer Lund - 700 E. :Lake Dr., #44 - Support the request. I'm looking at that
picture and I think that if you stop behind the white line like you're supposed to,
you've got a wall from the back yard of a duplex, then there are some bushes,
and then you see the vehicles and you end up slowly inching up because you
can't tell. Like the gentleman said people aren't going 35 MPH down that road,
they are 45 -50 MPH. I can understand him liking to use that because it's
convenient for his parking. It's a wide street why don't you put in a center lane
for making turns?
Denise Rose - 700 E. Lake Dr., #62 - Supports the request. I'm a teacher and I'm
really concerned because I'll be back to work in a couple of weeks, I also see that
mother and her 2 children every morning and I'm always nervous about them
because they go right by and traffic is pretty bad about 7:30 am and it's like that
every day. That photograph is taken from a totally different angle of what we
see when we're coming out in our cars.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil - I'm very familiar with the area, I grew up in Orange, and I live
very close to this location also. I'm very aware of the speeds on Cambridge and
it must be one of the widest sections of Cambridge in the city. The speeds are
pretty fast through here, it's posted at 35 MPH. I know the bike lane on
Cambridge and it's posted for NO PARKING 7 -9 AM AND 2 -4 PM ON SCHOOL DAYS,
so a vehicle may be there when many of the residents of Lake Dr. are leaving in
the morning. I noticed the multitude of For Sale signs out there and they do
impede the view when you're approaching the STOP sign on Lake Dr. Nobody
knows who owns the tree or shrub on the corner but the suckers that were
hanging down apparently have been trimmed out now so that's got to be another
improvement. I also am entering and exiting onto Cambridge in the morning
and the afternoon, not too far from here on a side street, and the issues I have,
particularly when trying to exit onto Cambridge from my street is that there is no
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platooning of cars. I live closer to STOP signs on Cambridge and it's a constant
barrage of cars in each direction and that is what is more frustrating to me trying
to get out. I have the same issues, I have good visibility I just can't find slots to
get out. There's bicyclists, and a lady with her kids going by there every
morning that also cause me issues. I don't find this to be a sight distance issue.
I've looked carefully at The Lakes, I've driven in there and out and I don't see the
same sight distance problems that I'm being told about.
Commissioner Dick - I was out there, not at 7:30 in the morning, but I didn't see
a problem. I work at a place where we have a similar situation and we have a
company policy that says you cannot make a left turn, you have to make a right
and go down and make a U -turn or whatever, because it's just one of those
things where it's a challenge and while that may not be the advice one would
like it is a safer approach. When we have no evidence of any accidents for the
past 5 years and the report from staff would indicate to leave things as they are, I
need to support the staff.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I'm very familiar with that area too and I also live in
the same neighborhood and I use the trail all the time. I went down there several
times and I saw the exact same cars that are in these pictures and I went in and
out of there and I think the width of Cambridge lends itself to an easier exit, but I
agree that the overall problem is the speeds on Cambridge, if people drove the
speed limit entering and exiting Lake Dr. wouldn't be a problem because of the
width. One of the most interesting ideas I heard is a center turn lane. I think a
narrowing of Cambridge St. would be something that would improve driving
conditions for everybody we talk about Cambridge all the time with sight
distance and red curbs but usually it's further down where it's so narrow, it's a
huge issue, you can't get your front bumper out into Cambridge as you go
toward Katella without being in traffic. I don't think the sight distance is a
problem I think the width lends itself to not having to do anything about it at this
time but overall the speeds are what make Cambridge the biggest problem
within that stretch between Fairhaven and LaVeta.
Chairman Beil - Do we know the width of Lake Dr. there at the back of the curb
return?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - I would say 26 ft. although I haven't
measured Lake Dr.
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Vice Chairman Vaughan - I've seen cars do some pretty funky maneuvers and
pass a slower vehicle on the left on Cambridge. People get in a hurry and they
rush around.
Commissioner Dick - I've seen that also on Collins, Katella and Chapman;
somebody has always got to be there faster than you do. I support staff's
recommendation to deny the request.
MOTION: L. Dick
SECOND: C. Vaughan, I will second it but I wonder what the mechanism will
be or if we have to look into the issue of implementing some type of
narrowing either with the center lane.
Chairman Beil - So we have a requested amendment to the Motion to approve
staff recommendation to deny the request but also to take a look and report back
on what is the Master Plan for traffic lanes and striping on this section, and what
is the staff's thoughts on the potential of left - turns. From my perspective there is
one too many other streets in close proximity, and a left -turn lane in there would
cause other issues.
Denah Hoard, Asst. City Attorney - Such a request would most likely take a
traffic study and would you like an estimate on the cost associated with such a
traffic study?
Chairman Beil - No that's not what I'm asking for, I just want to give staff some
time to report back to us as an Administrative Report, on the potential based on
the geometry that you see out there and the adjoining streets. There was some
discussion already about vehicle counts that could support or go against putting
in a left -turn lane, the claims of how many vehicles are entering and exiting
Fairway. Dave must have some kind of counts, some idea of the volumes that
are going in and out of there.
Dave Allenbach - I conducted turn counts for Lake Dr. but I did not count turns
for Fairway Dr. I don't have an overall traffic count for this area. We were
looking for rear -end accidents for people waiting to make a left turn.
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Chairman Beil - I'm looking for a quick administrative report on what has been
going on out there, a little bit deeper dive to what you have already done, as to
assessing the sight distance for the safe zone off Lake. Do you accept that
amendment?
Commissioner Dick - I have no objection to accepting a friendly amendment I
wish there were ways we could avoid making these folks make this trip multiple
times. We're going to be here anyway so it's not a problem for us, but I see no
way of knowing in advance of what to prepare for.
ACTION: Denied the request, but staff will further investigate as an
Administrative Report at our next meeting.
MOTION:
L. Dick
SECOND:
C. Vaughan
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
Tacki Scott, City Traffic Engineer - Is this something you would like agendized at
the next meeting and brought back to you or just an informal memo to the
Commission of our findings and the data we have collected?
Chairman Beil - An informal memo as an administrative report saying how long
you need.
End of Consideration Items
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Comm ission August 10, 2016
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations,
the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - September 14, 2016
Respectfully submitted,
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
12then@cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
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