06-08-2016 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: Tune 8, 2016
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present — Commissioners: J. Beil, L. Dick, A. Feliz, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Absent - Commissioners: None
Present — Staff: J. Scott, M. Llanes, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. B. Marcotte,
P. Then, M. Llanes
D. Approval of Minutes
♦ March 9, 2016 - Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION:
Dick
SECOND:
Lebeau
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this meeting.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran g e Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission June 8, 2016
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the implementation of 3 -Hour Time Limit parking with red curb
markings for 853 N. Shattuck Place, and 3 -Hour Time Limit parking in front of
the church at 840 N. Shattuck Place.
Glen & Steven Nelson
PO Box 1
Orange, Ca. 92865
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Did you go out on the weekends at all?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We went out on a Saturday during the
day and early in the morning about 8:00.
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
The following two a -mails were received from residents unable to attend the
CTC meeting but they wanted their opinions to be heard:
Carol Bellard, 15544 E. Collins Ave — In favor of the 3 -Hour time Limit parking
restriction, would like business owners to receive a permit enabling them to park
on the street. (Received via e-mail on May 27, 2016.)
Iamie Coate, 770 N. Shattuck Pl., #A — Opposed to the request. She is an owner
of one of the 4 -plex buildings that are on the street and she feels the proposed
time limit represents an impracticable solution to this request. She owns a 4 -plex
residential unit and her tenants always have more than 1 car per household and
there isn't enough on- street parking available as it is. (Received via e-mail on
June 3, 2016.)
Pastor Bubba Lipscomb, 840 N. Shattuck Pl . — In favor of the parking restrictions.
Sunday is the day I need it. Most of the time people will park their cars on
Friday night and they will move either Sunday night or Monday morning. My
concern is more that it's becoming a storage lot there on Shattuck Pl. I don't
want to call the Police every time a car is there I did last week because there was
a dump truck and I would appreciate if you would reconsider and think about
letting us have time limit parking because on weekends it is a nightmare on a
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran ge Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 7445536 in this re ard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission June 8, 2016
repetitive basis. If you went every Sunday like I do you would see that those
cars pretty much line the street. Our people are older and they like to park in the
front there is the parking lot but they want to park in the front. We need to park
from 9 am to 7:30 pm Sunday evening, and Wednesday after 7 pm. We have
cameras up and we have thefts on film.
Steven Nelson, 853 N. Shattuck Pl . — In favor of the parking restriction. We just
want to have parking available in front of our building and not have people do
mechanical work. People are bringing their cars over from Highland St. and
Quincy Ave. west of Tustin St. to park here, and there are a lot of commercial
vehicles that are also parked. I can't see how it hurts anybody to have this
parking restriction. People cannot park in front of our office when they need to,
it's very inconvenient for us and also this habitual parking of trucks, back -hoes,
vans, etc.
Glen Nelson, 853 N. Shattuck Pl . — In favor of parking restriction. If you go
around City Hall you see all kinds of parking restrictions for time limits. Two
years ago we came to you looking for No Overnight parking, and it was denied,
and then we went to see Rick Otto about 2 months ago and he said we should
contact Jacki Scott about this issue, and we started the process again and we were
quite surprised when we weren't granted this 3 -Hour parking. I walked around
the City Hall and in the front it's 1 Hour parking, down the side it's 1 -Hour
parking, if you go on Almond Ave. it's all red curb. We would like to have the
same consideration to run our business and our guests as the City has. I think 3
hours would help us. We think if you give us the 3 Hours it would be easier on
us, on Pastor Bubba, everybody would be happy.
Mike Schade 34659 Tennifer Dr., Wildomar — I perform maintenance for the
Nelson's buildings and I come in to work at 5:30 -6:00 am and I see people drive
up and park, and they have another car come up to pick them up, and they are
parked there all day long. I see the same thing with commercial vehicles being
parked there. A lot of time people are sleeping in their cars and they use our
wall and our community as a bathroom and we have to clean that up as well.
Along with the tagging too it's a constant thing, I'm constantly having to take
care of that sort of thing for the Nelsons, repainting the buildings, cleaning that
kind of stuff up. I don't see where a 3 hour limit would hurt anybody and it
would keep people from bringing their cars from other locations to park there
and then leave them overnight. I don't know if it's street sweeper days that they
do it but that street is pretty well always full until you get all the way down to
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
O ran ge Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this re ard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission June 8, 2016
the other end. At the far end you have apartments there and they use their
spaces up. Rarely in the mornings is there a space to park. I use the back of the
lot.
Chairman Beil — In your view is there a lot of vacant storefront in that little
commercial center facing Tustin St.?
Mike Schade, 34659 Jennifer Dr., Wildomar — We have a couple of units that are
vacant on the Tustin side. We haven't had too much of a parking issue in the
front in the parking area. Wells Fargo Bank is right there and all of their
customers park in our lot for some reason. We put little signs up but nobody
really pays attention to them we don't really give them a hard time over it. We
have a trash dumpster that I have to roll out on Monday and Thursday's and
there are always cars right there, and I try to put it right at the gate so the trash
guy can get it, and sometimes people park all the way up to the entrance. They
are not talking about having any red curb, just the 3 Hour parking.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — The original request is for 10 ft. and 3 ft. of the red
curb so if I'm hearing you correctly would 3 ft. and 3 ft. give you enough
distance to keep that from encroaching on the driveway?
Mike Schade, 34659 Jennifer Dr., Wildomar — That would definitely help
especially when we go in and out of there. It would be better if it were 5 ft. back
especially on the south side where we haven't put the dumpster in. 5 ft. and 3 ft.
would be ideal.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for
further discussion and a motion.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — Was there any indication when you were there or if
our law enforcement officer knows about the shuttling? I've seen it in other
areas so I believe it, I just wondered if any of our people saw it. I went by there 3
times last week and I didn't see that.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — In one of my observations I saw a guy
parking what seemed to be one vehicle then he walked over that got into another
truck and drove away.
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this re ard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission June 8, 2016
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I remember when they came to us last time regarding
the overnight parking and I know the same kind of problems exist as now, and I
think between Pastor Bubba and the Nelson's I think the 3 Hour parking is a
good compromise, and I would move to grant the request and change the red
curb to 5 ft. and 3 ft.
Chairman Beil — My only concern with that is moving the issue over to the next
residential street. I'm still trying to ascertain if it's an overnight issue or a
daytime issue.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I have to admit I was wondering about time
restrictions I don't know how staff feels about that and we didn't really discuss
it. I know the church's concern was primarily on the days where they have
church services.
Chairman Beil — If there was consideration to put in a 3 hour parking limit is it
just days or would it be all the time?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We have limited parking enforcement
during business hours Monday through Saturday.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I believe my motion was to deny staff's
recommendation and go forward to approve the request. In regard to the red
curb it's to approve installation of 5 ft. and 3 ft. red curb markings.
Motion fails for lack of a second.
Chairman Beil — I understand the issue and it's an issue we were facing when
you came before us in the past, and it's an issue we're facing in a lot of areas of
the City and if we start taking small actions like this and start moving the
problem around because whoever is parking here and whoever is staying there
they believe for some reason this is the place that is the least impacting on
residential and businesses, it's kind of on a back street and it probably has a lot of
vacancies, the church is there. They are going to start migrating and park
somewhere else. A 3 hour time limit is a parking turn -over tool, to make parking
turn -over generally for business purposes, you turn that parking over to
customers. I don't think this situation out there is the reason to put in parking
turn -over.
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran ge Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this re ard, advance notice is appreciated.
Public Works Departmen
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Glen Nelson — It looks like we're not going to prevail in this situation but the
situation isn't going to go away and you are pinning the donkey tail on us. We
didn't cause the problem, my bother drove through the project on the other side
of Tustin St. and he counted over 300 garages and they were all closed. We don't
know what those garages are being used for, maybe Code Enforcement could
find out. I don't know why we have to carry the burden of the graffiti, trash, and
public defection in our front yard, literally. When you have City Hall with
restrictions surround it on no parking and red curb why we are denied the same
basic human right?
Chairman Beil — Parking isn't a human right.
Denah Hoard, Asst. City Attorney — We can ask Orange Police to actively enforce
parking restrictions for the next month and report back to us then.
Chairman Beil — Ask Orange Police to increase enforcement of parking for 30
days and add red curb. I would be in favor of that. You know how I feel about
taking away a single parking space, I just don't like taking away parking. The
things Mr. Nelson brought up appears to be a Code Enforcement issue, a density,
that's the issue we're facing.
Jacki Scott, City Traffic Engineer — I spoke on this item or a very similar item just
Monday night at the Planning Commission meeting, this kind of inquiry and
request comes in to the City almost daily in some form or another, whether it's a
complaint, request for time limit parking, permit parking, inquiries about
neighborhoods, different initiatives that someone might be interested in taking
and everybody is basically concerned about there not being enough parking on
the street in front of their business, their residence in front of wherever their
interest is. This is a citywide issue and each one of these individual requests
does accumulate over time, and so staff's recommendation for denial is along
these lines. If the numbers bear out, we've done the study and we have the
numbers that shows a moderate demand, and in trying to minimize this overall
impact to adjacent areas.
Commissioner Dick — Just to show that we're not totally unsympathetic to what
has happened, if the Commissioner would care to revise his proposal to ask for
30 days of enhanced enforcement and amend it to include the red curb I would
be pleased to second that. You know how I feel about giving up one single
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran ge Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 7445536 in this re ard, advance notice is appreciated.
Public Works Departmen
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Minut of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission June 8, 2016
parking space, there's only so many and the City grows, and nobody wants to
park in front of my house, or your house or your shop, or my shop. Every time
we take away another parking space it just makes it more likely that somebody is
going to illegally park somewhere else and that might cause other problems. I
just don't like taking away parking.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I'm more in favor of supporting the business owners
than I am to visitors to the area and transitory traffic. They most likely will find
another place, that's an unknown we aren't certain of, maybe they will go to the
next block and maybe they won't, I don't know. I can say as a resident and
somebody who works in a city where there is no free parking, it's all metered
and you have to pay everywhere in downtown Riverside, I think people are
more inclined to park in front of business in business districts than they are
residential. The business owners here have been pretty patient, I agree with
them that there is a problem, so if working toward a solution to them if the best
we can do is to put it to the Police Department for 30 days and see what happens
knowing we could bring it back and revisit it on their behalf, I would probably
make that motion. I think the red curb at 5 ft. and 3 ft. is acceptable and we can
leave that in or if staffs feels that 10 ft. is more appropriate.
Chairman Beil - Any thoughts on the 10 ft. and 3 ft.?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - We put in red curb for sight distance
problems, if you are going to get any benefit out of this you need to have 10 ft. of
red curb on the south side of the driveway. The reason we are going with 3 ft. on
the other side is to preserve 1 parking space that is there, and your sight distance
is not as acute as looking northbound.
Commissioner Lebeau - What if I offer a substitute motion that is attainable, to
adopt the request for a vision sight zone north and south of the driveway and
653 N. Shattuck Pl., 10 ft. south of the driveway and 3 ft. north of the driveway.
Ask the Watch Commanders for a period of 30 days of enforcement, and to have
staff revisit the parking issue after those 30 days, it could be reported at the
August Traffic Commission meeting.
Commissioner Dick - We lose how many parking spaces?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - One in total.
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran ge Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
Public Works Departmen If
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission June 8, 2016
Commissioner Dick - This is June, my concern is that the August date might be a
little too quick to get an accurate count because in my estimation you have to
find out if people are continuing to park there. If they are parking there are they
being ticketed, and if ticketed are they actually showing up for court.
Commissioner Lebeau - My motion was mindful of the fact that we are dark in
July, if the citations start showing up we might get a quicker response that the
reinvestigation would occur after that 30 day period was over with any need to
modify. Once the enforcement period is over then verify if the behavior has
changed in the neighborhood, if we're trying to modify whether behavior has
changed during the enforcement the numbers would be affected.
Chairman Beil - We have a motion that we approve the red curb, and a 30 day
enforcement of the area.
There was someone else speaking but the voice is unintelligible.
Sgt. Brian Marcotte, OPD Traffic Bureau - In a 6 month period we had less than
10 calls that were parking related. They can call after 4:30 to report any
problems.
Commissioner Dick - We're talking about 30 days of increased parking control
with no modifications to signage, and no red curb.
MOTION:
M. Lebeau
SECOND:
L. Dick
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
End of Consideration Items
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
None this month.
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran ge Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission June 8, 2016
VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations,
the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - August 10, 2016
Respectfully submitted,
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
12then @cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran ge Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this re ard, advance notice is appreciated.
Public Works Departmen
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