02-10-2016 - Minutes TCCITY OF ORANGE
CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
Minutes of a Regular Meeting: February 10, 2016
I. OPENING
A. Flag Pledge
B. Roll Call
Present — Commissioners: J. Beil, A. Feliz, M. Lebeau, C. Vaughan
Present — Staff: J. Scott, M. Llanes, D. Hoard, D. Allenbach, Sgt. B. Marcotte, P. Then
D. Approval of Minutes
May 13, 2015 —Were not available.
October 14, 2015 — Approved as published by the Recording Secretary.
MOTION:
Lebeau
SECOND:
Feliz
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
II. ORAL PRESENTATIONS
None this meeting.
III. CONSENT CALENDAR
None this month.
C ity of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran g e Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 - 5536 in this regard, ad notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 10, 2016
IV. CONSIDERATION ITEMS
1. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the driveway at
324 N. Batavia St.
Mai Nguyen
324 N. Batavia St.
Orange CA 92869
Chairman Beil — We have a letter in our packet opposing the request from a resident
at 316 N. Batavia St. which is the multi -plex south of the subject driveway.
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman
Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Mai Nguyen, 324 N. Batavia St. — My parents have lived here for the past 30 years
and there is an issue with them backing out. We're not actually asking for you to
paint a huge strip of red paint just enough for them to back safely into the curbside
parking area because it is a 2 -lane street. You could paint on the right or left side,
we prefer the left side only because my mom is designated as the watcher and she
watches for opening in the oncoming traffic. Marking it red doesn't get rid of the
blind spot when cars are parked there.
Chairman Beil — Over the years what has the parking density been like every night,
is it getting worse with more vehicles?
Mai Nguyen, 324 N. Batavia St. — It's a multi- family area so you have people across
the street parking on our side of Batavia St. and running across that busy street back
and forth. My parents have a big tree in the front yard and people like to park in its
shade, and we're right next to the intersection at Palm Ave.
Commissioner Lebeau — Does that space between the front bumper and the curb line
where your driveway starts is that the area you are asking for?
Mai Nguyen, 324 N. Batavia St. — That would be the ideal situation because my dad
could park far left and he could back into the curb side parking area.
Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 10, 2016
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further
discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil - There's not a very wide sidewalk and a vehicle parked there the
steel fencing, the bushes and the tree. What was your thoughts as far as how much
the landscaping in the yard blocks the initial northbound view of the vision zone as
they back out?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - I don't think the landscaping plays a big
part of it, the canopy is up higher so motorists can see underneath it. There is plant
material that is far enough north of the driveway other than creeping out onto the
sidewalk, which could be a tripping hazard, I don't think is creating a sight distance
problem. Likewise with the fence, you can probably see over the fence it's not that
tall, so when you're close by it looks low enough that you can see over it.
Commissioner Lebeau - It shows 70 ft. between driveways in front of 324 and 334 is
that correct? Could you remind me of the length of the average parking stall?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - Yes. Installation would be 20 to 22 ft.
Commissioner Lebeau - So if we were to pull out 20 ft. that would eliminate a
parking spot and if we pulled out 10 ft. there would be no net change to the amount
of parking available in front of that house?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - You could probably fit 3 vehicles there,
it's just that the 3rd vehicle to the north where this ban is, in the photograph, would
be up against that driveway.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I'm a big fan of promoting safety and I know what it's
like to have to act responsibly when you're on a busy street and you are backing out
you are literally in a travel lane and when the traffic is busy I know what that is like.
I like what you showed us about a solution to safely back out without being all the
way in the lane, that is a really good compromise and I would like to support the
proponent's compromise and give them 4 ft. of red curb to the north so they can do
as described and perform that backing maneuver safety without being out in the
street, without removing existing parking spaces, I believe I heard them say that if
we gave them 4 ft. it would not greatly affect the existing parking.
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ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 10, 2016
Commissioner Feliz - I frequent Batavia St. every morning and I've seen how that
area can get congested especially watching several people back out in the morning
and I agree the 4 ft. of red curb would be a good compromise.
ACTION: Approved the installation of 4 ft. of red curb markings on the north
side of the driveway at 324 N. Batavia St.
MOTION:
Vaughan
SECOND:
Lebeau
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
2. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the driveway at
2750 N. Canal St.
Derek Nguyen
2750 N. Canal St.
Orange, CA 92865
Chairman Beil - We have a letter in our packet opposing the request from a resident
at 316 N. Batavia St. which is the multi -plex south of the subject driveway.
Commissioner Lebeau - Could we turn to the site sketch, I'm looking at the lower
left corner where it says 'Begin NSAT' that means NO STOPPING ANY TIME, is that
correct?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst -Yes.
Commissioner Lebeau - What is the difference between red curb and NO
STOPPING ANY TIME?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - Red zone is typically looked at as no
parking and the definition of no parking first is that it a parking violation not a
moving violation. Secondly, you are not parked if you have someone behind the
wheel of a car that can be moved; whereas NO STOPPING ANY TIME is a moving
violation you can be cited for, and that goes on your insurance. Also there is NO
STOPPING ANY TIME on the east side of the street. As you can see from the diagram
(J Cityef A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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there is a left turn lane that is striped in and that northbound travel lane is simply
not wide enough to allow on- street parking and through traffic.
Commissioner Lebeau — Would it make more sense to move the NO STOPPING
ANY TIME zone up to Lincoln Ave. on the west side of the street?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — In this particular case, as you can see
from the diagram, the subject area is the only area on the west side of the street that
allows parking so if you approve this request we would paint it red and then we
would install NO STOPPING ANY TIME signs on that side of the street and let the
paint fade away.
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy. Chairman
Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Derek Nguyen, 2750 N. Canal St . —I'm from a family of 10 siblings and as we became
of driving age we needed that extra space in front of the house to park our cars. It
was red, we requested it to be painted over, but as everyone left home for college or
moved away we didn't need it any longer. But on top of that the population of that
area has become denser, and with the development of The Village there is a lot more
traffic coming through here to shop there. Backing out of that steep angle driveway
it is very difficult for us to see even without the cars, but now with the cars being out
front and the street being narrow as it poses a dangerous situation for us, so we
would like the City to consider painting it red.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further
discussion and a motion.
ACTION: Approved the installation of 40 ft. of red curb on the north side, and 16
ft. of red curb on the south side of the driveway at 2750 N. Canal St.
MOTION:
Vaughan
SECOND:
Lebeau
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
`g Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review andlor purchase.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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3. Request for the installation of red curb markings on Palm Ave. at Handy St.
Veronica Barajas
304 N. Palm Ave.
Orange, CA 92867
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report; please refer to your copy. Chairman
Beil opened the public hearing for the following discussion.
Chairman Beil — Did a request similar to this come to the Commission previously for
the same location.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — No I'm not familiar with a request here.
There is a similar section of street on Walnut that you may be thinking of.
Chairman Beil — Apparently parking allowed on both sides of that little stretch of the
street.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — It is not posted for any type of parking
restriction so parking is allowed.
Chairman Beil — What is the typical standard width of a car now?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We use the MUTCD standards and that is
a 10 ft. parking lane, and then you have a minimum of a 10 ft. travel lane.
Chairman Beil — In theory a car could park on each side of the street and nobody
could get through.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — That is correct. To our knowledge that
does not happen.
Commissioner Lebeau — Could we solicit the opinion of our Police representative if
he has familiarly of this location and any problems for any related issues?
Sgt. Brian Marcotte, Traffic Bureau, OPD — I am familiar with the area I haven't
heard of any issues in that area. I don't work at night so I'm not sure if they are
experiencing issues with people parking or loitering in that area.
Cityof A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 10, 2016
Veronica Barajas, 304 N. Handy St . - My house is right in front of the subject area
and my kitchen window faces that area. A lot of people park there to do drugs. I
have a 10 yr. old son and I don't feel safe for him to go outside in front of that area at
all. I don't think it is a safe street to be honest with you, I don't think it's even a
street because there's no striping, there's no lighting whatsoever so people park
there and do illegal stuff. I would hope that you would perhaps put in NO
PARKING sign in front of the house, or maybe close the street completely and turn
it into a cul -de -sac.
Steve Winterbottom, 577 N. Handy St . - Whenever I come to the corner there's not
enough room for 2 cars to pass, and I too have seen cars parked here numerous time
at night, it seems to attract people that want to party or who want to go over to the
bike trail when they're not supposed to be there at night. The entrance and exit of
the bike trail is also right there at that same section of the street.
Dolores Castillo, 2438 E. Palm Ave - I live right across from where Veronica lives.
As you can see there is a barrier right there so that's where the street narrows and
the only time I've seen issues is in the summer when kids are out of school. In the
evening once in a while there is a car there and sometimes they go down to the
creek. I've never seen anything really bad going on out there. I would prefer not to
have it painted because that would eliminate the parking adjacent to the bike trail.
Veda Mabry, 2441 E. Palmyra Ave - We have a street light in front of our house. If
you were to paint red curb in front of that area people are going to start parking in
front of our property. We have had a couple of cars out there, a couple of weeks ago
I called and the Police came out, by the time they got there the kids were gone
because usually when they come they go to the ditch really fast then do whatever
they have to do and get back in the car and they're gone. If you paint the curb red
people aren't going to see it at night because there is no street light there. They are
not going to pay attention just because there is a red curb or sign, they won't be able
to see it. Also in that area I think people believe they can park there because there is
increased trash there. My neighbor does not pick up the trash on that corner, the
wind was blowing last week and a branch sat there forever. People pulled up and
put beer cans out there. That is her yard so it's her responsibility to pick it up but
she doesn't do it. I think when people see this unattended area they think they can
park there because nobody sees or cares what is going on. My husband is there all
day long and he hasn't seen anyone parking out there for any length of time.
During the summer time there is increased traffic because there are kids. It's a social
problem but it's not significant enough to warrant you installing red curb out there.
City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 10, 2016
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further
discussion and a motion.
Chairman Beil — I did a little research into this condition, I remember the history out
at Walnut Ave. and we talked about that very similarly. This one at Palm Ave., this
triangle is actually owned by the same property owner that owns the larger property
on the east side of Santiago Creek. I have heard people saying, "close it ", or "fix it"
why isn't there a full street there "? I'm hoping that if there is any development on
that property on the other side of the creek that part of development agreement
includes the finishing of Palm Ave. at this location either through dedication or
improvements to make it go through. Beyond that the biggest concern I have is
seeing a 16 ft. width of pavement and maybe they don't park door to door, maybe
they're off -set a little bit but you cannot get emergency services through there if
there are two vehicles, each parked in the other direction on that street.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — This is kind of an odd angle of this abutment that goes
out.
Chairman Beil — This is probably for drainage purposes more than anything at the
end of the street.
Vice Chairman Vaughan — I'm wondering how there has ever been parking there
just because of the narrowing. It's like an unforgotten section.
Chairman Beil —Have you thought about, from a potential issue of emergency access
and the safety of vehicles parking in access through there. I know there hasn't been
an accident history, that whoever looked at it for anything other than red curb just
posting it right along the constricted area of the street where it's only 16 ft. wide for
NO PARKING on one side just so we assured there's always ample room to get
through there.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — This particular stretch is long enough that
you could post it instead of just painting it, certainly it would be more economical
and less work for us because the signs last about 10 years. When asked if there was
ever a problem there they want to know if it was ever approved for someone to park
there, we would have heard from them but we haven't, so we are assuming that if
somebody does park there its really infrequent and it hasn't caused a problem for
emergency services or the motoring public in general.
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Minutes of a Regular Meeting City Traffic Commission February 10, 2016
Commissioner Lebeau - This stretch of roadway is far too narrow to permit parking
on either side of it, and for that reason I'm really strongly considering even
preventing parking on both sides or installation of NO STOPPING ANYTIME on both
sides through that stretch from where the road narrows to the end of Handy St. and
for the stretch where its identified as a potential red zone here. It's not because of
the social issues going on there, it's more of the roadway and how narrow it is, at 16
ft. wide that is barely enough room for 2 cars to pass and as you aptly pointed out in
theory you could legally park 2 cars there, one in each direction thereby completely
constricting the though movement at all. For that reason I would like to make the
motion to install the red curb and, installation of NO STOPPING ANY TIME from where
the road narrows to the end of Handy St., and for the stretch identified for potential
red zone here it's not because of the social issues going on there, it's more because of
the roadway and how narrow it is at 16 ft. wide there I barely enough room for two
cars to pass and as you pointed out if you could in theory and legally could park
two cars, one on each side of the street thereby completely constricting the through
movements at all. For that reason I want to make the motion to install at the red
curb on north side of the street and NO STOPPING ANY TIME from the point where the
road narrows to Handy St.
Vice Chairman Vaughan - I concur with Commissioner Lebeau I just wanted to
make sure that we clarify with Dave perhaps he wanted to accomplish the same goal
but with a sign.
Commissioner Lebeau - Let me clarify why I did it this way. There is no curb to
paint red on the south side of the street that's why I proposed signage on the south
side of the street. The north side of the street, I don't believe that is a full 100 ft. If it
is and we can accomplish it with signage I would gladly amend my motion but I
don't think it's a full 100 ft.
Chairman Beil - I thought Dave mentioned it but I think the light pole going north
you could actually sign that. From north of the light pole.
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst - The photograph you are looking at is
Palm Ave. looking east, so if you wish we could move that sign down the pole a
little bit and install a NO PARKING sign on top of it. The further sign is the STREET
SWEEPING sign and we remove that put in a NO PARKING sign there and on the
north side of the street that is about 100 ft. between the corner and the street light
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and again there is a STREET SWEEPING sign here and an END NO PARKING sign and
install it on the STREET SWEEPING sign on top.
Commissioner Feliz — This is to help with the emergency vehicle access, I don't think
it's going to solve the loitering problem.
Chairman Beil — (In response to comments from the audience.) We actually are not
concerned about parking we're looking at from a safety perspective of a 16 ft. wide
pavement portion of the street.
ACTION: Approved the installation of red curb on north side of the street and
NO STOPPING ANY TIME signs on the north side of Palm Ave.
where the road narrows on Handy St.
MOTION:
Lebeau
SECOND:
Feliz
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
4. Request for the installation of red curb markings on both sides of the driveway
serving 1830 E. Palmyra Ave.
Michael Hall
1830 E. Palmyra Ave.
Orange, Ca 92866
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for discussion of this request.
Alice Lisk, 1828 E. Palmyra Ave — It's been hard getting out of the driveway they
seem to park behind the driveway but their bumpers hang out making it harder to
get out and to see oncoming traffic. On trash day we have cans out there and people
will move the trash cans and park their cars there and leave our trash cans blocking
the driveway.
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ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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Mike Hall, 1830 E. Palmyra Ave — We have neighbors in the front of the apartments
and the other apartments over here by the driveway, and ambulances come many
times for one older lady, and guys park out in the street so if we could get some of
the curb painted red they could drive into the driveway or go across because there
are cars being parked half over the driveway. Other older apartments have had
management companies and they don't care how many cars they have, this is a
safety issue for my neighbors.
Chairman Beil closed the public hearing and returned the item to the Commission for further
discussion and a motion.
ACTION: Approved the installation of 10 ft. of red curb markings on both
5. Request for the installation of red curb marking on both sides of the driveway
serving 807 W. Walnut Ave.
Omar Vasquez
807 W. Walnut Ave.
Orange, Ca 92868
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for discussion of this request.
Commissioner Feliz — What times of day did you go out to this location and observe
the parking?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We went out there 8:00 a.m. and various
times through the business day. This photo was taken around 10:30 a.m. but we
were out in the early afternoon there hasn't been anybody parked there. One of
these vehicles may actually belong to the proponent, we're not sure. The resident to
the east has his driveway on Clark St.; however, on the south side of the street
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sides of the driveway at 1830 E. Palmyra Ave.
MOTION:
Beil
SECOND:
Vaughan
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
5. Request for the installation of red curb marking on both sides of the driveway
serving 807 W. Walnut Ave.
Omar Vasquez
807 W. Walnut Ave.
Orange, Ca 92868
The oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to your copy.
Chairman Beil opened the public hearing for discussion of this request.
Commissioner Feliz — What times of day did you go out to this location and observe
the parking?
Dave Allenbach, Transportation Analyst — We went out there 8:00 a.m. and various
times through the business day. This photo was taken around 10:30 a.m. but we
were out in the early afternoon there hasn't been anybody parked there. One of
these vehicles may actually belong to the proponent, we're not sure. The resident to
the east has his driveway on Clark St.; however, on the south side of the street
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adjacent to the apartments there are vehicles parked there consistently each day and
into the evening.
Chairman Feliz - I have a feeling most of the problems at night and maybe on the
weekends, I know Walnut Ave. is an incredibly busy cut - through.
Chairman Beil - Although Walnut is classified as a collector rather than an arterial.
Commissioner Feliz - This is another one of those small ones when you back out
you are basically in the lane, when you start putting in red curb and you keep doing
it more and more.
Chairman Beil - Because it is a collector and if we do one on this collector we are
going to get more. It's different than something like Canal St. that is what we have
approved, that is a collector but there is a specific geometric issue of the curve and
the street width, so there are other reasons why we're doing it. My inclination is to
support staff's recommendation to deny the requested red curb.
ACTION: Denied the installation of red curbs at the driveway serving 807 W.
Walnut Ave.
MOTION:
Beil
SECOND:
Feliz
AYES:
Unanimous
NOES:
None
ABSTAIN:
None
End of Consideration Items
V. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORTS
Chairman Beil advised the schedule for 2016 meetings was included in the packets.
The Chairman also advised that a new Traffic Commissioner has been appointed by
the City Council at their January meeting.
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VI. ADJOURNMENT
After discussion of today's Agenda the City Traffic Commission meeting was
concluded, and as there were no further requests for action under Oral Presentations,
the Chairman adjourned this session of the City Traffic Commission.
The next meeting of the City Traffic Commission is scheduled:
5:30 P.M.
Wednesday - March 9, 2016
Respectfully submitted,
Phyllis Then, Recording Secretary
Traffic Engineering Division
pthen@1cityoforange.org
CITY OF ORANGE
PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT
300 E. CHAPMAN AVENUE
ORANGE CA 92866
PH: (714) 744 -5536
FAX: (714) 744 -5573
3 City of A digital recording of this City Traffic Commission meeting can be made available for your review and /or purchase.
ran Please contact the Recording Secretary at (714) 744 -5536 in this regard, advance notice is appreciated.
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