HomeMy WebLinkAbout1/16/1984 - Minutes PC~~ PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
City of Orange ~: January 16, 1984
range, California '! Monday, 7:30 p.m.
'the regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called
to order by Chairman Hart ~atii7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Hart, Master, Mason, Greek, Vasquez
ABSENT: None
STAFF
PRESENT: Jere P. Murphy, Administrator of Current Planning and
Commission Secretary; Jack McGee, Associate Planner;
Helmut Stolpp, Public Works Department, Bernie Dennis,
Traffic Engineer, Gary Johnson, City Engineer; Gene
Minshew, Assistant City Attorney; and Maryann Brown,
Recording Secretary.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE ' "'~~
IN RE: APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF DECEMBER 12, 1983 AND JANUARY 4,19$4
Moved by Commissioner Vasquez, seconded by Commissioner Greek,
to approve the minutes of December 12, 1983 and January 4, 1984,
as transmitted.
YES: Commissioners Hart, .Master, Mason, Greek, Vasquez
OES: None
MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN:
None
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS:
CONSTRUCTION PROJECT SP 2481, DRAFT ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT
REPORT #831:
Construction of the Loma Street/Imperial Highway connection,
City of Orange. A proposal to extend Loma Street northerly
across Peralta Hills for a distance of 8400 feet to join
Imperial Highway in Anaheim Hills. (This items was continued
from December 5, 1983. A study session was held on January 4,
^~ 1984. The public hearing has been closed.)
Chairman Hart indicated that an informal. discussion period
was held on January 4, 1984 with members of the ROAR group,
the staff, the Commissioners, and other members of the public.
He stated the study session was quite productive, the
Commissioners closed the hearing, and unless any compelling
reasons for re-opening of the hearing became apparent, the
Commission was prepared to take action on the issue.
Planning Commission Minutes
•January 16, 1984
Page Two
Chairman Hart asked for questions or discussion from the
Commission., or in the absence of same, a motion on the issue.
Commissioner Vasquez stated he would like. to make comments
in conjunctions with two motions he had prepared. He stated
that the Commission had spent a great deal of time on the
issue, ranging from visiting the sites, viewing the terrain,
geography, and topography of the area. In addition, a
number of statistics, reports, evaluations, potentials,
and prophetic reports regarding the area had been studied.
He stated that the bottom line was the issue of responsi-
bility in defif-ing where the community was headed in terms
of circu ation and transportation. He further stated that
a recent UCI study and a local city study revealed that
one of the major concerns of the community is circulation
within the County of Orange.
Commissioner Vasquez moved that action on the Taft-Loma
Extension be deferred until such time that a Draft Report
on the Eastern Corridor is prepared and circulated, which
is estimated !to be available in April of 1985 as a pre-
liminary draft, and the route alignment study is estiyna~e~ ~~ y,~~.„.~,.
to be available for study in June, .1~8~: /9'~'s'• ~~.c~t, a ~ ~~
Commissioner Vasquez stated the potential impacts acknow-
ledged in the work session that the Eastern Corridor studies
might have are sufficient enough to merit deferral on any
approval to take any action on this extension until the
Corridor Study is available.
Commissioner Vasquez continued his motion, recommending
that the City Council authorize staff to work with a
select committee of ROAR representatives to evaluate
and study the alternatives of alignments and configurations
which have been discussed in study sessions and public
meetings to ascertain the feasibility on a technical,
environmental, and financial basis.
He explained that approval of these recommendations will
allow the. City to make a more intelligent study of the
issue and to address some of those variables which are
unknown at this time, and to explore the options from
three perspectives which would benefit the community
and the City.
Chairman Hart called for a second on the .motion.
Commissioner Master asked if the motion proposed by
Commissioner Vasquez included the action on the EIR.
Commissioner Vasquez indicated he felt
appropriate to defer the action on the
imply or infer persuasion by approval,
consistent on the issue when, based on
mentioned figures, the item comes back
it would be
EIR, rather than
and to remain
previously
before the Commission.
Planning Commission Minutes
.January 16, 1984
'Page Three
Commissioner Greek stated he was in total agreement
with the consideration of the alignment as an important
factor, but he was concerned with setting a specific
date to receive the figures discussed.
Commissioner Vasquez stated that Van Dell Associates
indicated that preliminary draft reports, containing
information needed by the City to conduct an evaluation,
would be available in April of 1985. Statistical data
would be available in April, 1985 and final realignment
of the Eastern Corridor in expected in Summer, 198`4.
Commissioner Master stated he was concerned about
developments which would come before the Commission
during that interim period which may be in the affected
area; asking if those projects would also be postponed.
Chairman Hart asked staff to comment.
Mr. Johnson, City Engineer, stated that within the next
few months the South Ridge Development would be coming
before the Commission, and the alignment of the road
under discussion would have an effect on that development.
He stated that lacking any final change in the effects
of this EIR, South Ridge will have to propose their
development around the alignment which .previously had
been envisioned.. He believed that the alignment used
in the South Ridge planning process is one which the
ROAR group is in opposition with.
Commissioner Mason asked if developments,previous1y
approved by the City Council would be impacted by
the alignment study under discussion.
Mr. Johnson stated he believed that some developments
which had been approved that may affect the road and
access of the road, and one or two of the major
roads which may be looked at as alternatives.
Commissioner Mason asked if roads such as Chapman
and Katella would be impacted and if so, could that
be alleviated.
Mr. Johnson stated that each case would have to be
looked at individually, but the upcoming project is
affected by the alignment of Loma itself. 'He further
stated that he d-idn t believe any other project,. either
past or future, with the exception of the Edison Sub-
Station property would have that same effect.
Chairman Hart asked if South Ridge Development would
be directly affected by any delay.
Plann~r~g Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Four
Mr. Johnson responded by stating that the project
would not necessarily be affected by the delay, but
that when the project came in, an integral part of
their development would be the road alignment and
at that time, a decision would have to be made as to
what concept would be in keeping with their layout.
Chairman Hart asked if there was any way to hasten
access to the statistical information being generated.
Commissioner Vasquez stated he believed the date
proposed was the earliest possible date.
Bernie Dennis, Traffic Engineer, addressed the Commission
and Commissioner Vasquez,-in particular, asking if the
date proposed was in fact June 1984, rather than June,
1985, stating he thought the plans were further along.
Commissioner Vazquez responded that the route alignment
was outlined as 18 months; the preliminary draft report
for circulation to cities was April 1985. He further
stated he also believed as did others, that the plans
were further along than stated.
Mr. Johnson referred to Commissioner Vasquez's motion
and the review of alternatives, stating that .some of
which had not been formally studied. He suggested that
if the motion directed the staff to look at those
alternatives, they could be studied within the time
frame that South Ridge Development would be forthcoming.
He believed the question of bypassing freeway traffic
could only be answered effectively when it was related
to the Eastern Corridor, with an overall view of not
only the Corridor Study, but the intervening local
arterial streets. He stated that the staff would have
some information in advance by looking at the alternatives
previously discussed.
Commissioner Vasquez asked if the issue of April 1985
would then not preclude separate discussions and studies
based on a timetable coordinated with South Ridge.
Mr. Johnson stated the City would not have the answer
to the issue of"bypassing freeway traffic, but that
the City's contention has been that that issue would
affect the nur-bers and classification of the road,. rather
than whether the road is needed to provide for area-wide
traffic. Alternatives with regard to the second part
of the motion could be accomplished in advance of that;
but that it would take the completion of the Eastern
Corridor in order to put it into a proper perspective.
3
Commissioner Vasquez asked if staff was suggesting a
timetable be attached to the second recommendation in
the motion to coincide with the anticipated timetable
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Five
of development; is that what you are suggesting.?
Mr. Johnson stated he did not know the exact timetable
on the South Ridge Development and deferred to Mr. Murphy.
Mr. Murphy stated the first Planning Commission public
hearing on the South Ridge Development would be in the
early part of March at the earliest..
Chairman Hart indicated that a second on the motion had
not occurred, and Commission Vasquez stated he was
open to a substitute motion or an amendment to his motion.
He indicated his concern that the South Ridge Development
project would impact the many months of study on the
Loma issue and inquired whether postposing the South
Ridge issue could be postponed.
Commissioner Mason raised the concern that the date of
April 1985 was not an absolute; that it could be a longer.
delay.
Commissioner Vasquez stated that based. on his conversations
with the .principals of the company involved., he believed
they desired to complete the study as soon as possible.
Commissioner Master asked firstly, is the roadway needed
now, in the Commission's judgment collectively, to support
developments in the area; and secondly, are the impacts
of not having adequate ingress and egress thoroughly
understood? He further asked-if we would be dumping traffic
onto other streets and have we really. analyzed those impacts
to a greater extent? He commented further that the more
important issue seemed to be that of the 15%--the so-called
15% use by people trying to bypass a freeway junction of the
Riverside Freeway/Newport Freeway. Gommissioner Master
stated he believed the question would. be difficult to
answer now and in 1985, and he raised concerns as to
whether the study at issue would answer those questions.
In response to an inquiry from a member of the audience,
Chairman Hart stated that the public hearing had been
closed.
Commissioner Greek commented that he believed Loma Street
is needed; that the planning process is a committment to
the future and to the responsibilities of future citizens.
He stated he was not committed to an alignment, however,
and moved to approve the process, the need for Loma, but
with the condition that a consideration to an alignment
that wou d discourage the freeway bypass traffic.
Chairman Hart indicated that that consideration could
be covered by Commissioner Vasquez's second item.
Planning Commission. Minutes
'January 16, 1984
Page Six
Commissioner Vasquez stated that his motions were not
intended to imply he did not support the need. for a Loma,
but that to arrive at an acceptable. use., implementation,
design--those issues are still subject to discussion. He
further stated he agreed with Commissioner Master's concerns
as to whether the Corridor Study would answer the circu-
lation/freeway bypass traffic question, but,. in his opinion,
past engineering projections that the existing freeway
system would. be adequate until the year 2000 have proven
erroneous during peak Orange County traffic hours.
He further stated that it is for those reasons he thinks
it is important to study. the options, to scrutinize the
studies and reports available, in order to make a sound
decision:, without precluding the concept that Loma may
be needed; however,- there is an opportunity to explore
options, whether in design, or alignment, and of course,
the technical and economic issues which play an important
role. He reiterated that it is for those reasons he
included the technical and financial .feasibility, and his
action is intended to be broad, but .flexible. However,
the complications arising from forthcoming development
may impact the available options and he expressed concern
regarding a solution to save the recommended action and
at the same time, address the issue of the development
which is anticipated in the first part of March.
Commissioner Greek referred to the Resolution of the City
Council, City of Villa Park, which requests reclassifying
Loma from.a proposed secondary to a proposed .major
arterial between Villa Park Road and Nohl Ranch Road.
This request was made in March 1975 and Commissioner Greek
stated that sucks a committment is future planning and if
the Commission does not agree on the extension of Loma,
it would be "dropping the ball" for future citizens of
our city. V~:1la Parkin their change of attitudes,-creates•
problems and this was a Resolution of their City Council
at that time to follow certain procedures and classifications
of the arterial master plan and they appear to be changing
their mind again. He further stated. that if this Commission
does the same thing, it would be lax in its duties.
Commissioner Vasquez commented that when this issue arose
initially, the concept was that it was a Master Plan; that
it was part of a big north-south corridor. When we see
a proposal to delete Crawford Canyon south of Chapman from
the map; and. other deletions occurring left and right,-
its true .that we may fall into that category of falling
into ranks with other-jurisdictions who have. chosen to
delete certain areas; however, does that mean we must go
off and build roads that lead to essen Tally nowhere or
lead from open space o~ open-lanes or to congested lanes
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
.Page Seven
that cannot carry the load of traffic; specifically,
the Chapman Avenue. A Master Plan seems to have a
lot of hypocrisies enclosed in it, because it seems
that everybody's deviating from it.
Commissioner Vasquez stated he personally did not enjoy
that deviation because he supports master planning, but
on the other hand, even if we, for instance, amend this
language and approve in concept the extension of Loma
and went with the recommended actions of stating the
technical, environmental, and financial feasibility of
Loma, we still face the problem of this development,
regardless of what we want to do today. Unfortunately,
this prob em has emerged and here we are.
Chairman Hart stated he thought the problem involved
waiting for the figures.
Commissioner Vasquez responded that putting aside the
issue of the figures, even if we undertake recommendation
number two, there is not enough time between now and
March 1st or whenever to accomplish these objectives.
He asked Mr. Johnson to comment.
Mr. Johnson stated he believed the question is how detailed
a study ,is required; that some rudimentary designs could
be done, some profiles could be worked up; some quantities
of cut and fill, configurations that might :work, however,
we would limit the total all-encompassing effect of the
study due to lack of time. He stated that based on the
motion, he would need more information on 'the comprehensiveness
of the study proposed. From the standpoint of the discon-
tinuous or T-type of intersection of the three major streets,
Imperial, Loma,- and Via Scola, staff could look at that ~-
and possibly have some answers by the time South Ridge
came with the project.
Mr. Johnson stated he wanted to keep all avenues open,
but that possibly staff would not be able to provide all
the answers envisaged by Commissioner Vasquez in their
report..
Chairman Hart suggested the problem be broken into two
phases: 1) whether the concept of Loma going. through is
the majority, and 2) the alignment.
Commissioner Vasquez .stated since his motion is dead for
lack of a second, he would not need to withdraw it, and
would abide by rules of order.
Mr. Johnson then stated that in conjunction with the
alignment previously discussed, in order to consider
adequately, the EIR may have to have a major change since
it would an affect on patterns and alignments. In that
case, the. short time frame being discussed would not be
possible, but he believed that if that was the indication,
staff should be aware of it as soon as possible.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Eight
Chairman Hart asked if this was a "worst case" EIR.
Mr. Johnson stated that from the concern of the
residents, they would probably indicate it as a "worst
case", but there were-alternatives that could also
be considered "worst case", depending on the direction
of the opposition.
Chairman Hart then stated for the sake of discussion,
assuming this was a "worst case" EIR, would a T-intersec-
tion be a lesser impact.
Commissioner Master asked for a more detailed explanation
of what T-intersection was being discussed.
At this point, Mr. Johnson approached the exhibit on
display, and pointed to specific points on the exhibit
which had been discussed as T-intersection alternatives.
Chairman Hart requested the Commission settle the issue
of whether Loma should go through at this time.
Commissioner Vasquez stated for discussion purposes that
approval in concept of the Loma extension, subject to a
determination of studying the alternatives which Mr. Johnson
outlined;. that the approval in concept of the extension
is contingent on defining or ascertaining those technical,
environmental, and financial aspects of those alternatives.
Commissioner Master asked if the Commission was setting
in motion the basis that a new EIR be prepared.
Mr. Johnson stated he hoped that not a "new" EIR, but an
amended or expanded EIR would be the reality.
Chairman Hart asked if a modified EIR would be necessary
if the alignment was left for some later action.
Commissioner Master stated his concern was the T-inter-
section in that if the T was being put in to affect
traffic flow, then its a major traffic change, or why
the T?
Mr. Johnson stated these alignments, which were the
major .issues in this EIR'; the T was Via Escol:a the
others were through streets.' The other two scenarios
which would be discontinuous traffic on one of the
other legs, then the EIR would have to be looked at in
that context.
Chairman Hart stated that that would be the modification,
and Commissioner Master asked what the purpose of the T
was.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
PAge Nine
Mr. Johnson responded that the purpose of the T would
be to .discourage thru traffic.
At this point, Commissioner Greek stated the intention
would be to make an offset intersection, rather than
straight through.
Mr. Johnson stated staff had never studied that concept;
that any time a T-intersection is put in a major leg,
then major delays occur, increased intersection widths
would be required, and changes in signalization would be
necessary, and that has not been done.
Chairman Hart asked what would-the Commission need to
need to do to make that a possibility? He reiterated~~.
that he would like the Commission to take some action.
Commissioner Vasquez requested that the Commission
confirm his original motion is dead from lack of a second.
Commissioner Hart acknowledged same.
Mr. Johnson stated that the Commission could request
that those two specific alternatives be incorporated
into an EIR and be returned with an amended EIR, including
that proposal at some later date.
Commissioner Hirt asked if that request would preclude
some other route.
Mr. Johnson responded that it would not; that the traffic
distribution to other streets within the study area would
be very important to the overall effectiveness of this
alternative. Just as the ROAR proposal on the board is
analyzed] it can be seen that there are other effects
of that 'no road" alternative. These T-intersections
will have similar effects, but it may be that they would
be of such a nature that there would be no major impact
on existing. roads, but its virtually impossible to make
that statement without further study.
Commissioner Greek stated his concern was that all the
® traffic studies use the same criteria, but his personal
feeling was that assumptions made in the E:IR of greater
development to the East. than was concerned with in the
County s traffic study.
Mr. Johnson concurred, stating the City may be accused
of comparing apples and oranges and -- we have been.---
the County did a study concerning the ROAR proposal and
their figures certainly can be correlated and it was his
belief that the County would have to accept and abide
by any recommendation that this Commission makes if we
are to maintain our credibility in the AHFP project
and to accomplish a county-wide system, that a County
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Ten
study would have more credibility, at least, in keeping
*~ that context, than say, a restudy by Mr. Basmasian. He
further stated that if the Commission. directed staff to
work on these alternatives, staff would attempt to get
together with the County and see if ,they used the same
criteria that were used before, that hey. could come up
with something that they would be comfortable with; and
when the time came, that if your body and the Council
decided they wanted to change the alignment of the
Master Plan, that the County would be agreeable.
Commissioner Hart stated that before the Commission
ordered another study as to alignment, that the decision
should be made as to whether there should be an extension
of Loma.
Commissioner Greek moved that we make a finding that
the extension of Loma is required for the orderly
development of the City of Orange.
Commissiner Master seconded the motion.
Commissioner Vasquez stated that he would cast a negative
vote because he believed that, in all good consciousness,
as a general statement, he could not support that motion.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Master, Mason., Greek
NOES: Commissioner Vasquez
MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Master asked for a point of clarification.
We are talking about additional studies related to a
T-type intersection; are we talking about a different
alignment?
Chairman. Hart responded yes; not an alignment that shows
in the EIR.
Commissioner Master then asked if that alignment was
going to be an impact on that development that comes
before the Commission in March; back to square one.
Commissioner Hart responded affirmatively., and Commissioner
Master stated he thought it was just a rnatter of how the
streets met, rather than a principal alignment.
Mr. Johnson stated it could be different; it may not be,
and based on the development he had seen, the project
limits could accommodate several different concepts as
far as road alignment are concerned.
Commissioner Master then asked if the Commission could
go forward with that development from the standpoint of
making a decision.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Eleven
Mr. Johnson stated he believed staff would attempt
to come up with as many answers as possible in this
interim period between now and the first hearing
before the Commission on South Ridge, and staff would
try to dovetail that in, if that was the Commission's
desire.
Commissioner Master stated, for the sake. of argument,
if the intent of the T street was. to be an impediment,
that configuration can do that, but he questioned
whether alignment. should be a significant consideration.
In other words, you could effect a dog-leg in these
intersecting streets, and you could put pork chops in,
you can do all kinds of things, but he didn't believe
alignment was the way to affect an impediment to traffic.
Mr. Johnson stated he could not answer that completely;
that possibly Bernie Dennis, Traffic Engineer, may be
able to shed light on that question, regarding the typical
model that is used 'to evaluate trip demand. Yet,from the
standpoint of a~lkgnment, he was sure that a road could be
made so circuitous that .people would take an alternate
road, but he did not know what the criteria for that would
be. Further, he stated he did not know how circuitous
a road would have to be to completely discourage people.
Commissioner Master stated his concern was that he felt
the Commission could settle on a proposed route and
address the issue of providing impediments to the use
of the route that- might have the effect'of cutting down
or discouraging through traffic from other areas.. That
seems to be issue--not so much the route, although it is
in certain factors of ROAR, but the main issue seems to
be concern of traffic from one freeway to the other.
Chairman Hart •'asked if Mr .' Johnsan'~s`:;comcern ~ _~.: -~.,~:~
about modifying the EIR was that if a T-intersection
was agreed upon, the traffic flow would be different
so that you couldn't use the EIR.
Mr. Johnson responded that that was the inference he
believed would occur; that there will be `impacts. The
construction EIR considers the impact to the area, but
it includes the traffic characteristics, so if those
change, maybe there should be a change in the EIR. He
then asked the expert consultant on this, Jill Sterret,
to address the Commission.
Ms. Ste-rret stated she believed discussion centered
about different sides of the same coin;. that it was true
if some impediments were created in this road, you will
reduce the impact on this particular road and some of
the things ROAR has been concerned about. In that case,
the EIR you have is a "worst case". However, she believed
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Twelve
that Mr. Johnson was referrin to the total number
g
of trips. and if they are taken off this road, they
will go somewhere else, and that's the part that has
not been analyzed in the EIR and would need to be done.
Commissioner Master stated he was trying to facilitate
.that the Commission take a motion on a route and that
analysis of impediments and results thereof are what
is being talked about in future studies; not alternate
proposed routing.
Commissioner Hart stated that it might come to a question
of whether. the existing EIR can be used if we do change
that. He further stated-that the next question bef ore
the Commission was whether they wished to order an
amended EIR to cover the alternative alignments discussed.
Commissioner Master questioned the use of the word
"alignment". He asked if the discussion involved
major alignment differences, alternatives different
than those proposed, or interfacing streets which may
Q act as an impediment.
Chairman Hart stated the discussion involved intersections.
Commissioner Vasquez asked Mr. Johnson if an amended
EIR would interrupt, affect, stipulate the South Ridge
Development talked about previously.
Mr. Johnson stated he could not answer that, but until
a different concept is a reality, staff has told South
Ridge people that they would have to use the alignment
already indicated and has been designed in Anaheim and
in Orange.
Commissioner Vasquez asked if this had already been
stated to the developers.
Mr. Johnson responded affirmatively and stated that
that is how the developer's proposal will appear. It
does not mean that it cannot be changed in the course
® of submittal `and approval, and it may be that the two
decisions may dovetail together within the next three
or four months.
Chairman Hart asked if the EIR could be modified in
that period of time..
Ms. Sterret stated the EIR could be modified in that
period of time; the question that cannot be .answered
would be whether it would trigger recirculation. If
it was necessary to -go back through circulation, it
would require at least 30 days, if not a 45 day period
for review. As a general guess, she indicated that
since the interested parties are already involved, it
may not be necessary to go through that process, but
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Thirteen
she could not make an official statement without
further checking. But as far as the information is
concerned, she stated that could be done within the
time period discussed..
Commissioner Mason asked Ms. Sterret if she would need
to know .the alignment before that study could be done.
Ms. Sterret asked if the Commission was referring to
the two basic configurations -described by. Mrs` Johnson
and stated they would be designated as two more
alternatives and dealt with under that concept, possibly
more extensively than some of the original alternatives,
but not necessarily going through the entire report.
Commissioner Greek. stated he would like to recommend
that staff be directed to come up with alternate
alignments by the first meeting in March,. and process
them through the ROAR Committee so whey could give
imput into it. He stated although we may not have
complete agreement, but we would have imput and
possibly by the first meeting when we have those
alignments, we may find we need more traffic analysis.
He further stated that any traffic studies or counts data
are available at :the County and we would not need to
have any elaborate consultant studies when we can use
the County staff to get the information at no cost.
Mr. Johnson stated that staff would begin work on the
feasibility of those alignments; studies of the physical
portion of it, and immediately ask the County to study
that concept and provide us a report similar to-what
we have seen on the critique of the ROAR proposal.
Commissioner Greek stated he personally would like to
see an alignment with profiles and numbers that could
be looked at.
Mr. Johnson stated the staff had profiles for the three
alternatives and would prepare profiles for the two
additional ones.
It was moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by
Commissioner Master that staff be directed to develop
alternate alignments by the first meeting in March, and
further,.. to process those alignments through the ROAR
Committee for imput.
Commissioner Vasquez asked Mr ..Johnson that based on
the motion before<the Commission,~that it does not impact
or require EIR amendments, based on the action tonight
and subject to what's coming before the Commission in March.
Planning Commission Minutes
Ja~auary 16, 1984
Page Fourteen
Mr. Johnson responded that staff would. meet with
Ms. Sterret to determine how extensive the amendments
would. have to be, but he believed the EIR.. would have
to respond to the question of two additional alignments.
He further stated he did not have answers from the
standpoint of how extensive the amendments` would have
to be and would not have those answers until he had
further discussions.
Commissioner Vasquez stated, for purposes of understanding,
that if we exceed the seven weeks and come back with the
information that a major EIR overhaul is required, how do
we deal with that question in seven weeks.
Mr. Johnson stated he believed staff would be in a position
to give the Commission the rudiments of the two alignment
studies within the seven weeks; to promise a full-blown
amended EIR and all the exhibits, full traffic study, etc.,
would not be possblebecause we need time to talk about
the timeframes discussed: Mr. Johnson stated he could
not give a firm timeframe regarding completed study and
amended EIR.
Chairman Hart asked for the date, and was informed that
March 5, 1984 would be the first meeting in March.
C
i
i
omm
ss
oner Greek stated it was his anticipation that
these alternate-routes will indicate a decrease in
traffic. He stated that the criteria there is such that
assumptions were made of various route selections because
of the width of the highway, and with computer moduling
and flow diagrams, we might find a decrease in traffic.
He further stated he wanted a comparison of the through
route rather than an obstruction.
Commissioner Vasquez requested a restatement of the
motion, and Commission Greek stated that, in general,
he was asking for a realignment and studies that
indicate creating some impediment to freeway traffic;
that it be processed through the ROAR group, and that
it be submitted back to us on March 5th, the first
meeting. in March.
YES: Commissioners Hart, Master, Mason, Greek, Vasquez
~1.OES : None
MOTION CARRIED
The Commission took a brief recess at 8:35 p.m. and
Chairman Hart reopened the meeting at 9:00 p.m.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
. Page Fifteen
N RE: NEW HEARING:
CONDITIONAL .USE PERMIT 1327 - LAGUNA LAND & CATTLE COMPANY:
Request to establish an office use in the industrial
zone with a greater percentage of compact spaces than
allowed and greater building height than allowed on the
south side of Katella Avenue at Struck Avenue.
NOTE: Negative. Declaration 833 was prepared for this
project.
Chairman Hart opened the public hearing,. and asked if
the applicant or his representative was present.
Mr. Patrick Conover, 1:8001 Sky Park South, Suite J, Irvine,
architect for the applicant, addressed the Commission. He
stated he had not seen he staff report, but in his con-
versations with the Planning Department, he understood
there was nothing of any great impact in the report on
the project.
Commissioner Greek asked Mr. Conover why he had requested
!~''~ the extra five feet.
Mr. Conover re ponded that in going to a four-story
building, the applicant was attempting to get maximum
usage out of the property, for the amount of parking
that could be made available. He stated a number of
easements which run across the property restrict the
area of the building, mainly in the northern portion of
the parcel and, in order to get the maximum benefit from
it, the extra five feet was required. to get the four
floors and maximize the parking.
Mr. Conover explained that the floor-to-floor height
was minimal, the parking ratio could be maximized if
we went to the maximum height of 50 feet.
Commissioner Greek asked the height of the building at
Struck and Katella, and asked if Laguna was doing that
also.
Mr. Murphy responded that he did not believe there were
any four-story buildings in the area, but a three-story
building across the street, on the north side of Katella,
might be in the area of 43-45 feet in height, and was
probably the tallest building in the area at present.
Mr. Conover commented that applicant's initial design
showed the bul'dirig to be four to five feet below the
curb line at Katella because it was their understanding
that the 45 feet height limit would be taken from that
Planning Commission Minutes
January 16, 1984
Page Sixteen
curb line. In his discussions with the Planning
Department, it was. determined that raising the
building. to ground level was more cost beneficial.
Moved by Comrni signer Master, seconded by Commissioner
Greek, to accept the findings of the Environmental Review
Board to file Negative Declaration 833.
A3~ES: Commissioners Hart, Master, Mason, Greek, Vasquez
NOES: None
MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Master,. seconded by Commissioner
Greek, to approve Conditional Use Permit 1327,f-or,ge~sons so
by staff -'.:and subj~c~t :ta cond;itioras as _ outlined by staff .
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Master, Mason, Greek, Vasquez
NOES: None
MOTION CARRIED
Mr. Murphy stated that this approval s_ a final decision
and not a recommendation to the City. Council. An appeal
may be filed within 15 days to the City Council; otherwise,
this will be a final decision of the Planning Commission.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 9:15 p.m., to be reconvened
to a regular meeting on Monday, February 6, 19$4, at 7:30 p.m.,
at the'Civic Center Council Chambers, 300 East Chapman Avenue,
Orange, California.
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