Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1/19/1981 - Minutes PCPLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES City of Orange Orange, California January 19, 1981 Monday, 7:30 p.m. The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called to order by Chairman Mickelson at 7:30 p.m. PRESENT: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master ABSENT: Commissioner Hart STAFF Jere Murphy, Administrator of Current Planning and Commission PRESENT: Secretary; Stan Soo-Hoo, Associate Planner; Gene Mi nshew, Assistant City Attorney; Gary Johnson, City Engineer; Lon Cahill, Fire Prevention Bureau; Bert Yamasaki, Director of Planning & Development Services; Doris Ofsthun, Recording Secretary. FLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG. At this time, Chairman Mickelson asked for a moment of silence in respect for the hostages' awaiting their imminent freedom. IN RE: APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF JANUARY 5, 1981: Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Coontz, to approve the minutes of January 5, 1981, as transcribed. AYES: Commissioenrs Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commisisoner Hart MOTION CARRIED IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS: ZONING CHANGE 915, VARIANCE 1610 - EBERLING: Request to rezone property from RM-7 to OP and to allow modifica- tion of the parking requirement for an office proposal on the west side of Bush Street between Stewart Drive and Havana Place. (Note: Negative Declaration 610 has been prepared in lieu of Environmental Impact Report.) (Continued from meeting of January 5, 1981.) Jere Murphy presented this application to the Commission, stating that th i s i s a continued hearing with regard to asix-s tory bui 1 di ng to be bui 1 t for the Provi dence Speech & Heari ng Center. The request is to allow a change of zone to 0-P (Office Professional) to permit construction of a school , cl i ni c and medi cal office bui 1 di ng. A Vari ance i s reques ted to allow a reducti on i n the number of required parking spaces and an increase in the allowed percentage of compact car spaces. The property consists of approximately .93 acre of land and is located on the west side of Bush Street between Havana P1 ace and Stewart Drive. h1r. Murphy reviewed the request by the applicant for a zone change to change the zoning of the subject property to 0-P i n order to more accurately reflect the proposed use as well as a variance in order to permit construction of asix (6) story (plus penthouse) office building with provision of fewer parking spaces than required by code. Lastly, a tentative parcel map has been fi 1 ed i n order to consolidate the six existi nq parcel s which make up the site into one lot, Mr. Murphy pointed out that all applicable development standards can be complied with excepting the parkina requirement. Code standards require provision of 574 spaces while the applicant proposes to provide 394 spaces. A parking study conducted by the applicant's traffi c engineer verifies that 394 spaces woul d adequately serve the site. A commitment has been received from St. Joseph Hospital to allow use of their parking facilities im- mediately east (surface parking) and northeast (parking structure) of the subject site to satisfy the parking required for the pro- Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Two posal . I t i s noted that these existing parking faci 1 i ti es do not appear to be surplus spaces which may be reallocated to allow development of additional floor area. Mr. Murphy then explained to the Commission that the continuance was called i n order to allow the Staff to adequately review the parking study and figures which have been provided by the applicant's traffic consultants. The city Traffic Engineer, who is responsible for reviewing that information, has not had an opportunity to adequately study the information i n the two week period since the hearing was continued and, therefore, Staff recommends a further Conti nuance i n order to allow the Traffic Engineer to finish hi s work. The Staff requests another two week continuance i n this matter. However, it is their understanding that the applicant might wish to address the Commission this evening. Commissioner Ault questioned Mr. Murphy as to when this information was submitted to the Traffic Engineer. Mr. Murphy wasn't sure just when the Traffi c Engineer had received the information. He i ndi Gated that he has ei ther received the information necessary or can obtain it, but has not had time to review the information. Commissioner Ault felt that this was exactly why the applicant had not wanted a continuance and he felt it is unfair to the applicant to continue this matter again. Mr. Minshew stated that one reason the Traffic Engineer did not get to this matter is because of the lawsuit with Santa Ana. Chairman Mickelson asked the applicant to come forward and address the Commission with regard to their feelings about a further continuance. r Jim Taylor, Newport Development Co., representing the applicant, stated that thei r major concern, aside from the fact that they have provided the information in summarized form to the Staff back when they submitted their appl i cati on, i s that after the i nforma- tion has been reviewed by the Staff, if the Commission has any additional questions that this would require the submission of additional data. They would feel more comfortable if a continuance is necessary, if their traffic engineer could have an opportunity to go through a one page cover sheet which was provided to the Commissioners this evening and to summarize what that information demonstrates to the Commission adn the city Traffic Engineer, and get a confirmation that this information is sufficient upon which to base an analysis and a recommendation to this Commission. He explained that they have lost 45 days now and with a further con- tinuance, will lose 15 more. He felt that, based on the importance of this project, that they should make sure that they have given sufficient information upon which to base an analysis by the city Traffic Engineer. Chairman Mickelson then clarified the fact that the applicant wished to make a summary of the information on this project in order to get a commitment from the Commission that this information would be adequate for an evaluation, then making a decision this Evening or make a decision after the Staff has reviewed it. The applicant agreed with this summation. r~ Commissioner Coontz stated that she understood from what the Planni ng Department indicated, that this was not just a necessity for a number of parking spaces, but a plot plan to include all of the buildings in the complex. She did not feel that this would do the job. She explained that they are going to the Traffic Engineer for his expertise since they are not experts in traffic and parking faci 1 i ties and they need hi s knowledge i n thi s matter. This was why she felt the need fora continuance. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Three s Applicant asked for more clarification regarding this, as it was their understanding and that of their traffic engineer that this information should be sufficient upon which to base a decision. Chairman Mickel son pointed out that the applicant's reques t was to go ahead and review their data with the Commission in the hopes that after they have explained it sufficiently, that it will satisfy the Commission's concerns and that they could make a decision this evening. He then polled the Commission as to whether they wished to proceed with the presentation of this matter and then make a decision. Commissi oner Master stated that he would like to hear the presenta- tion, but at this point he is not in a position to make a decision, even with further presentation . There was further discussion among the Commissioners and then Chairman Mickelson asked fora presentation from the applicant at this time. He also asked the people in opposition to this application to 1 i mi t their concerns to the traffic study . Chairman Mickelson reopened the public hearing. Jim Calmara, of Berryman, Stephenson, traffic consultants for the applicant, presented a series of slides containing some of the data which was not made available at the last hearing. He ex- pl ai ned that i n their original parking anal ysi s which was prepared for the applicant, they subsequently provided a report including information as to where parking was currently provided for the St. Joseph Hospi tal complex as a whole. This was the basis for much of the analysis which has been presented to the Commission. The first exhibit was a summarization of the parking demand and space requirements for the St. Joseph Hospital complex. It showed not only the parking spaces now available, but the space needed for the complex of St. Joseph Hospital, CHOC, 1201 W. La Veta and the proposed speech and hearing center. H e further explained that they had used a 1 i near equation i n es timati ng traffi c figures and told the Commission that this was a very accurate way of getting these fi gures . He pointed out that the Providence Speech & Hearing Center needs have been provided by the Center's adminstrator. Commissioner Ault asked for an explanation of "parking demand", "parking spaces based on demand" and "spaces by code". Mr. Calmara explained that parking demand means to go out and actually count the spaces needed for the area demand. They then identify a parking utilization rate factor, in order to come up with th e number of actual spaces which would be needed. H e further explained how theycome up with their figures fora report such as this. He pointed out that they used an 85% estimation for St. Joseph Hospi- tal, which is considered somewhat conservative. For CHOC they used a 90% estimation. He then explained the basic summarization of parking - current and future. Mr. Calmara then showed the numbers on the report and explained why they considered the parking insufficient as far as St. Joseph Hospital is considered, Based on the figures he quoted, and assuming no further building goes in in that area, in their pro- posal, they would be providing 150 spaces over and above the estimated future parking demand and over 250 spaces over what they estimate is needed far the complex as a whole. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Four Chairman Mickelson wondered if that anticipated future con- e struction for St. Joseph Hospital as it is anticipated right now. Mr. Calmara answered that they have those figures avail- able, but they do not have a report addressing this question. What they did was make future estimations of employment at the hoppital to a target figure of 2600. The future they are re- ferri ng to i s the addition of the other faci 1 i ti es and the addition of the speech and hearing center. The second exhibit showed a breakdown. by parking 1 of and where the actual parking is located. Commissioner Coontz asked for clarification of the Orange Medical Complex office building because she thought there was not complete understanding as to where that was. Mr. Calmara explained this to the Commission. The next exhibit showed the Orange Medical Complex just adjacent to the CHOC Tower and right on the corner of La Veta and Pepper. Mr. Calmara explained that this exhibit was prepared to show the walking distances from the various parking 1 ots to the complex. They took the average walking distance, which is probably one concern when parking off-site. He explained just how far em- ployees would have to walk from the various parking sites. The final exhibit was taken from a transportation research report the data from which has been collected fora number of years. Average walking distances are taken from various charts. Average walking distances are for various hospital facilities and their figure for the average walking distance i s 700 feet for the medical staff and goes as high as 850 feet. Mr. Calmara concluded his presentation by saying that this in- formation had not been given at the previous meeting and they had wanted to be sure that thi s information was made avai 1 abl e to the Commission. He did wish to make special note of the fact that thi s information was made avai 1 a bl e to Berni e Dennis , the city Traffic Engineer, for any type of analysis that he may have wanted to conduct. They provided Mr. Dennis with what they thought was a fairly thorough document for his study and evaluation. Commissioner Coontz stated that the Commission's concern is with the long range plan for these facilities. Commissioner Master wished to confirm the fact that in the traffic consultants' original presentati on, i t was their opinion that there were adequate parking spaces, but that i t was mismanaged. He wondered i f thi s was, i n essence, what the current numbers show or substantiate. Mr. Calmara replied that the current numbers indicate this fact. If there is only an on-site deficiency of approximately 56 spaces, then perhaps there is a problem with St. Joseph Hospital. He did wish to indicate, however, that this is not a problem that St. Joseph has in particular, but this is generally the case for all hospitals because of the unusual type of operation that they have and the work shifts that they are required to have in order to meet medical needs in the community. He explained that because of this, there is an overlapping need for parking. The only time you have a real parking problem is when there is a shift change, the first shift i s sti 11 on duty whi 1 e the second shift i s coming into the building to look for parking. Shift change requirements present a problem to not only St. Joseph Hospital, but to most hospitals of small to medium size. However, this problem is only ~, present for perhaps 15 to 30 minutes out of a 24 hour day. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Five Commissioner Master asked whether this exhibit represented the off-site parking a 1 so and h e was told that i t did not . Th es e are strictly on-site parking spaces . Mr. Calmara also indicated that, in actual fact, the 600 spaces that woul d be provided with two ad di ti onal 1 evel s of parking to an existi ng parking structure would actually be i n excess of the code. St. Joseph Hospi tal is not currently deficient i n meeting the code requirements for any of the facilities that they have. Practically speaking, they are providing 600 additional spaces and the code is requi ri ng 574. He felt that the reason that the applicant has made an effort to identify what the speci fic needs would be for this facility is quite likely to eliminate the un- necessary waste of space to provide parking that, in all probability would not be utilized. Chairman Mickelson further commented on future development in that area, stating that he didn't know specifically what has been proposed as far as additional buildings are concerned, but that he has been informed that there are additional buildings being proposed. Commissioner Master wondered if the Staff has any way of deciding that the code requirements are as stated in this presentation. Mr. Murphy replied that th ey have not had a chance to study the information given tonight, and therefore have no way to analyze the i nformati on at thi s time. Robin Ravgiala, Director of Planning for St. Joseph Hospital, addressed the Commission, stating that she would like to remind the Commission that health care facilities are under very strenuous health care planning regulations . Anything that costs more than $200,000 must go through a strenuous health care planning agency evaluation. She explained that with the current overbedding in Orange County an addi tional facility is not likely. Their current planning incorporates any proposed new buildings and any proposed new structures or added services. All of these things are in- cluded within the current parking study that they commissioned to be done. If they should be allowed to, at some future time, bui 1 d or add space, then they would have to come back to the Commission and the Commission would be able to regulate parking at that time. For right now, they have no other buildings or projects pending. P-ir. Taylor's final comment was that he i s a pl anner, not a traffi c engineers. He has come to the conclusion that, based upon what is being proposed to be built and the mitigation measure of two extra stories of parking, that the figures show that there wi 11 be more than sufficient parking for the uses. Their conclusion is that there is more than ample parking for the proposed building that they wish to build. If the Commission cannot concur with this they need identification of where the problems are. Geneva Fulton, 1801 Greenleaf, Santa Ana, addressed the Commission with regard to the 400 block an South Main Street in Orange. She had one question. If St. Joseph Hospital has enough parking, why are they 1 easing 500-600 parking spaces at Fashion Square and busing thei r employees -nd why are they not providing parking for the first two floors of the six-story building? She pointed out that any office bui 1 di ng changes tenants . Now they are having a school. Student counts can be doubled up one year and dropped the next. She alluded to the traffic analyst's explanation with re- gard to the fact that multiple parki ng was further away than the west park lot and they would have to walk north or south to the corner. She felt that if the west park lot were made into multiple parking, then give them the permit to build. Just one floor of parking is not enough. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Six Loretta Cargill, Administrative Assistant for St. Joseph Hospital, addressed the Commission, stating that they had relocated their parking spaces for day shift employees off-site, anticipating thi s parti cul ar project, anti ci pati ng the con- struction on the site and the fact that they will be overbuilding that particular structure that now parks employees two levels above. She explained that the third 1 evel of that structure i s now vacant because of employees parking off-site. She further explained that insofar as the provision of parking for the 1st and 2nd 1 evel s, these are servi ces that are already on-site and their parking spaces on-site would be vacated. She pointed out that compact car parking spaces are based on actual counts of smaller cars. There being no one else to speak for or against this application, the chairman cl osed the public hearing. Chairman Mickelson explained that the Commission has several alternatives. They could deny or continue this matter, as the S taff has suggested, allowing the Traffic Engineer to review the information provided by the applicant, or they can approve with ~,, conditions. He reminded the Commission that if they approve the application, it would go to the City Council. Corr~nissioner Ault thought that this has gotten caught in a bureaucratic mess. He could not understand why the Traffic Engineer did not .have time to study this situation. He couldn't see why the applicants would want to foster minimum or unavailable parking when they are putting i n such a n investment into th i s building. This has been continued long enough and he didn't want to see i t deni ed. He felt that i t should be approved with certai n conditions. He stated that he is aware that the Commissioners are not parking experts. Commissioner Master had some of the same thoughts which Commissioner Ault had expressed. The applicant has been caught i n somewhat of a catch 22 situation ....the fact that there has been a problem with parking i n the area, which the applicants have already identified, and the fact that the problem has become quite visible and is highlighted because of a previous hearing before the Commission when those opposing a major development in the nearby area cited St. Joseph's parking problems . He felt that i f they can condi ti on the application to be i n concert with the plan, he felt that at some point i n time i n the approval process h e woul d like to see something more firm in the way of plans for a commit- ment to adequate parking i n the entire complex. He would also like to see some conditioning regarding timing and some hard planning regarding parking lots . Commissioner Coontz asked the Staff wh en the Traffic Engineer might be able to finish his review. Mr. Murphy replied that he believed Mr. Dennis had stated that it would be ready for the next Planning Commission meeting. He also pointed out that the normal hearing time for Council would be from three to five weeks after the Planning Commission hearing. Commissioner Coontz stated that she would not mind recommending to the City Council that this application be approved with certain conditions expressing the concerns heard tonight. Chairman Mickelson agreed with these statements. He suggested that whatever action as t k that a specific request be made of the applicant to be prepared to gi ve a rev-i-e~--t~-~re o-f .-t-#~f presentati on to the City Counci 1 0-~ `.,` ~~~ Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Seven Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Master, to accept the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration 610. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Coontz, to recommend approval of Zone Change 915, for reasons as stated by Staff. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED Mr. Murphy pointed out that there is a supplementary report to the original Staff Report that suggested a condition that the Planning Commission may wish to require the 394 spaces to be i n effect prior to the bui 1 di ng being occupied. Mr. Soo-Hoo also pointed out a condition added orally at the last meeting to the effect that all compact parking spaces be used by employees. Moved by Commissioner Coontz, seconded by Commissioner Ault, to recommend acceptance of Variance 1610, with the two condi- tions as stated, one offered by the Staff and the other offered by the traffic expert. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED It was then brought out that the tentative parcel map should be attached to the variance and, by consent, this was added to the variance motion. Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Master, to approve the tentati ve parcel map, subject to the condi ti ons set forth in the Engineer's Plan Check Sheet. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED Chairman Mickelson explained that this constitutes a recommenda- ti on to the City Counci 1 and the applicant has been cautioned to be wel l prepared when th ey go before the City Counci 1 to re- view the entire traffi c si tuati on with the Traffi c Engineer and present that to the City Council. RECONSIDERATION OF C01\!DITIONAL USE PERMIT 970 AND VARIANCE 1543 - LINDBERG: Request to reconsider conditions imposed on approval of Conditional. Use Permit and Variance which allowed expansion of an existing 45 run dog kennel to 67 runs on the south side of Collins Avenue, east of Parker Street. ( Continued from meeting of January 5, 1981.) • Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Eight Jere Murphy presented this application, explaining that this is a request to reconsider conditions imposed on the approval of a conditional use permit and variance allowing expansion of an exis ti ng 45 run dog kennel to al 1 ow 67 runs which vary from development standards contained in the Orange Municipal Code for dog kennels. Negative Declaration 567 was accepted at the time of the original approval and no further envi ronmental review is required. The property contains 8,250 square feet and is located on the south side of Collins Avenue, approximately 207 feet east of Parker Street. Mr. Murphy pointed out that the property presently contains a 45 run dog kennel and single family residence in the M-2 zone. Twenty-two additional runs were under construction at the time this application was filed and have since been completed. On December 11 , 1979, Condi ti onal Use Permit 970 was approved to allow expansion of an existing 45 run dog kennel by 22 runs. Seven conditions were imposed with approval , tNhi ch include: 1) That the 22 proposed runs, which were recently built, will be allowed to remain i n place as they represent a recent significant investment and are among the best in the kennel. 2) That the 17 0l der existing runs along the south and wes t property line shall be removed. This would reduce the number of dogs and provide for a buffer zone between the dog kennel facilities and the neighborhood residences. 3) That the maximum number of dog runs shall be 50. 4) That the exposed wall surfaces where runs are to be removed shall be surfaced with sound-absorbing materials such as outdoor carpet, plastic egg cartons, acoustic the or wood. 5) That a roof of 2" plywood and asphal t rol l roofing with the undersi de of the roof 1 i ned with 2" soundboard shal l be con- structed over all runs. This shall be accomplished immediately for the proposed 22 runs and within one year for the balance. 6) That a parking lot design which does not require the backing of cars onto Collins Avenue shall be incorporated. This design shall be to the satisfaction of the Traffic Engineer. 7) That applicant shall install landscaping as required by the Planning Staff. Mr. Murphy explained that the applicant has complied with Condi- ti ons (1) and (5) and i s reques ti ng relief from or modification of the balance. Specifically, the Planning Commission and City Council acted originally to allow the applicant to construct 22 new dog runs with a condition that 17 0l der existi ng runs be removed. The applicant now feels that such a condition cannot be economically met and seeks to keep the total 67 runs. They point to the fact that a 12 foot high block wall has been erected along the southern property 1 i ne and feel that i t wi 11 adequately control. noise. Also requested is waiver of condition (4) since it is claimed that the new wall will sufficiently buffer noise and condition (7) since the landscaping was proposed to be located to replace the 17 runs which were to be eliminated. The applicant has stated that they intend to contact the Traffic Engineer regarding condition (6). Therefore, the question of compliance with this condition is still pending. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Nine Because of the applicant's desire to alter the terms of approval of Conditional Use Permit 970, Staff felt that another public heari ng was appropri ate. Mr. Murphy explained to the Commission that they key issue in this case revolves around the applicant's desire to maintain the total of 67 dog runs i n 1 i eu of the City's condi ti on that 22 new runs may be developed if 17 older runs are removed, thereby allowing a total of 50 runs . The applicant argues that, in order to comply with certain con- ditions of approval and also, in constructing a 12-foot high block wall (which was done voluntarily), all 67 dog runs need to be maintained to generate the income needed to pay for the i mprovements . Mr. Murphy explained that Staff certainly agrees that the volun- tary provision of the wall is a desirable asset to the kennel and that i t wi 11 help i n mi ti gati ng the problems between the kennel and its neighbors. However, Staff does not agree that the cost of the improvements justi fi es additional runs to offset these costs. Further, if the cost was truly such a factor so as to jeopardi ze the financial viability of the kennel itsel f, Staff must question why the applicant did not approach the Commission with the wall concept prior to construction in order to seek relief from the dog run limitations. In that way, the costs would not have been incurred without assurances for expansion. It was pointed out that the County Health Department i n its study pre- sented to the Commission at the last meeting and in their discussion with the applicant had 1 earned that the operation of the kennel has changed i n that i t i s now primari ly a dog guard facility rather than a hotel for dogs and cats. This may tend to reduce the noise because of the fact that there are only certain times during the day that the dogs are excited by people entering the rear portion of the property. That fact may tend to reduce the irritation to the residents of the area . The Staff then feels that other than the block wall having been created, the circumstances are basically the same as they were at the original decision of the Planning Commission and City Council and they would recommend that Planning Commission pass any recommendations on to the City Council since this was a Council action the first time around. Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing. Bob Vedel l , 629 E. Chapman Avenue, Orange, the attorney for Arf Bark Kennels, addressed the Commission on behalf of the applicant. He explained that when the Li ndbergs were before the Commission the first time, an ordinance which covered dog kennels had all of these conditions as mandatory. Since then, the Planning Commission and the City Council have adopted a new ordinance and, to his understanding, the only mandatory parts of that ordinance are the animal patrol ordinance of the County and the County's noise or sound ordinance. The other items are guidelines, which were mandatory at the time. He explained that the applicants feel that they have substanti al ly complied with the conditions set forth for them. They received a letter from the County Health Department stating that they were in violation of the noise ordinance. This letter is dated January 8, 1980 and it indicated that Mr. Bricks en, the Environmental Health specialist who did the sound study, did a noise monitoring on September 2nd. H e then came back on November 15, 1979 and at that time he said that due to the noises produced around the area, making the kennel noises unidentifiable, the study was considered to be inaccurate at the time. (Mr. Vedell quoted Mr. Bricksen's statements from his letter). Mr. Bricksen went back on December Z, 1979 and found the kennel was in violation of the noise ordinance. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Ten Mr. Vedell then explained that this kennel is in the M-2 zone, where, except for the fact that there was a non-conformi ng residence, there would be no ordinance. Mr. Vedell then went on to point out that the wall was built to cut down the sound. Mr. Lindberg hired a sound consultant and their ideas were discussed with Mr. Bricksen. Thereafter, the wall was built and a roff built over the kennels. This wall, which is on the west side, has a roof over the kennels in that area. If they are required to remove the over runs in that area they will be in trouble again with the county regarding the noise control. H e explained that night time noise control is that less noise can be generated during the night. They feel that they have complied with the sound ordi Hance by doing the work they have done. They are asking to be relieved of Condition #2. They are also asking to be relieved of Condition #3, since they have spent $20,000 to build a wal 1 and insulating the roof to delete the sound. They ask for deletion of Condition #4, since they feel that they have substantially complied with thi s condition by keeping the sound down. They have a setup now where it will work to keep the sound down and it meets the County noise ~' ordinance. With regard to Condi ti on #6, they asked Mr. Dennis, the Traffic Engineer, to come out and look at their situation, but Mr. Vedell does not believe that he has come out to look at the property yet. Re Condition #7, they are asking for approval of the 67 runs and not require them to remove 17 older runs and not require the buffer zone. They are also asking for approval of an entrance in the front of the property, rather than at the side, which they feel would help cut the noise down. He pointed out 'that when Mr. Bricksen testified before the City Council, he stated that the number of dogs does not raise the decibel level of sound. All it does is fill in the areas in the cracks. So reducing the number of runs is not going to reduce the decibel 1 evel . It may lengthen the space out between the highs and lows, but it will not actually reduce the decibel level itself. Mr. Vedell stated that basically the consideration for which they are asking is set out in a memo to the City Council dated 2/5/80 from the Planning Commission regarding Amendment 48-79-Dog Kennels, which he read from. Commissioner Coontz questioned Mr. Vedell with regard to the statement he had made that now that the applicant has built the wall and spent $20,000, that it would not be economical for him to have to get rid of the 17 older runs. She pointed out that at the time Mr. Lindberg came before them, he indicated that he could not put out money to do anything. Then he bui 1 t a wal l costing $20,000, which is probably an improvement. But now that he has put the wall up he needs the extra runs. This doesn't all fit together. Mr. Vedell explained that the runs were already i n when he appeared before the Commission. Commissioner Master commented that the Staff had indicated that the kennel had changed from a pet hotel to housing for guard dogs. He questioned what the difference would be in sound at- tenuation because of this change. He also asked what would stop them from reverting back from housing guard dogs to a pet hotel. Mr. Vedell explained that this is still a boarding facility. Commissioner Master stated that he was impressed with the fact that the applicant had gone out and found more information re- gardi ng noise reduction. But he felt that they should have come back to the Commission with thei r findings . Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Eleven Mary Barson, 638 W. Collins Avenue, Orange, addressed the Commission in opposition to this application. She thanked the Commission for extending this hearing so that Mr. Becker could represent himself. She stated that she felt that we are falling into a pattern here. Here are these kennels, plus another kennel next door to them. That kennel was supposed to have 10 runs and thei r dogs were to be housed i n bad weather. She felt that the biggest probl em is that there has been no policing of this situation. Over the holidays the dogs howled so badly that she had to go to her son's home to stay. She pointed out that this goes back to 196 2. According to what each owner has stated, since that time $200,000 has been spent over the years on this kennel . She 1 i ves on the east side of i t. This kennel went from 9 to 67 runs with no permits. She did say that she didn't know which kennel makes most of the noise. She has soundproofed her home as much as she could and can still hear the dogs howling every night. They keep adding and then sell the kennel to the next owner. They have done nothing but expand rather than abide by the rules set down for them. The kennel s went i n without a condi ti onal use permi t or hearing or anythi ng. She feel s that the city of Orange is to blame. The city set up an ordinance and the first time i t decided, i t i s thrown out. She tries not to disturb anyone, but the dogs get to her. Chairman Mickelson asked if there was any noise reduction since the wall has been built and Mrs. Barson explained that there was less noise, but the noise is still bad. Wilmer Becker, 873 N. Parker, Orange, addressed the Commission in opposition to this application, stating that he has been playing around with this situation since 1961. If the dogs are up against the wall you can hardly hear them. But there is a space in the middle of the kennel that is uncovered, and when they are i n that area, the noise is very bad. The area i n the center has not been topped with a roof or any soundproofing. He thought that perhaps if they would cover the entire back yard, it might cut down more of the noise. This would mean that the whole yard would be roofed. Mr. Becker explained that the noise is very bad when the guard dogs are taken to their workplace and then about 3:30 p.m. when they are returned. He thought the kennel should be monitored for about 48 hours rather than one or two hours. Mr. Lindberg, the applicant, then addressed the Commission, pointing out on the diagram where the roofing has been placed. He also explained where he has used soundproofing board. He showed that all of the kennel. has been roofed over except for one smal l hole, using asphalt and plywood, with fiberglass insulation. He further explained that according to the con- sultants he has gone to for advice, the sound does not rise and go up and out, but comes back to the house, rather than going out over the wall. H e stated that they have been in the guard dog business for about two years and they have about 30 guard dogs. However, they sti1T maintain the boarding kennel also. He pointed out the hours that they take the dogs out and bring them back in. Chairman Mickelson asked if he had implemented all of the things which the sound consultants had suggested and Mr. Lindberg ex- plained that he had done what they had asked. Commissioner Coontz asked if they had submitted a document in writing as to what they had done. Mr. Li ndberg explained that he did have a document and he could give a copy to the Commission. Commissioner Coontz suggested that they give a copy to the Staff. There being no one else to speak for or against this application, the chairman closed the public hearing. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Twelve Commissioner Coontz stated that she would like to see a change in the ordinance and wondered what the variables were regarding the number of dogs. Commissioner Ault sympathized with the applicant i n his di 1 emma, but pointed out that the M-2 zone makes fora problem regarding sound. He couldn't see much difference between 50 and 67 runs, if the middle area were covered. h1r. Murphy read from. the ordinance statements which could be used as guidelines, areas including coverage to establish a maximum of 30% of the parcel to be occupied by the dog kennel foci 1 i ti es . There wi 11 be a 10 ft. setback from any property line not abutting another kennel. He also read the guidelines for cooling, parking, a 24" high masonry wall to separate ad- jacent runs; animals being maintained should be obscured from surrounding properties; and addi tional requirements that might be placed on individual applications by the Planning Commission. Commissioner Coontz thought that this particular application looks like 45 to 50% coverage of the property. Commissioner Master commented that there are sound requirements even on M-2 zoni ng when i t is adjacent to residential property. Mr. Murphy explained that any noise ordinance relates to resi- dential use regardless of the zoning in the area, so that any industrial area that generates noise must comply with the notse ordinance. This is why some manufacturers have had to spend extensive amounts of money in modifying blowers, etc. in order to meet that noise ordinance. Commissioner Mickelson commented that he agreed with Commissioner Ault that the applicants have gone to some trouble to reduce the sound. His point way back was that it was not the number of dogs, but the sound that was generated. He was inclined to agree that perhaps they could reduce the sound 1 evel to a more acceptabl e 1 evel to the neighbors . Perhaps thi s one 1 i ttl e hole i n the kennel could be plugged. Commissioner Coontz commented that they do not have a report from the sound experts. They also have the problem of intent. If they let the condi ti ons sl i p through , i f th ey have no enforcement, th ei r decisions cannot hold. She would consi der 1 imi ti ng the number of runs in concert with looking at what the sound experts want done. She suggested recommending these things to the City Council. Commissioner Master did not understand the County report. Com- missioner Mickelson agreed with this statement. Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson, to recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit 970, with the condition that the open space in the roof 6e enclosed with the same type of soundproofing board used in the other areas and that all runs are covered. Commissioner Master was concerned with the possibility that the applicant may do all. of this at some expense and if the noise is not mitigated, then what? Chairman Mickelson requested that an additional condition be added that the applicants submi t a report from the sound con- sul tant, demons trati ng to the City Counci 1 the 1 evel of sound that will be accomplished by the first condition. ~J Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Thirteen Commissioner Ault agreed to the addition of this condition. Commissioner Coontz commented again regarding the fact that the Commission needs to stick with their ordinances. Mr. Murphy asked if the Commission wished to put a time limit for the conditions to be accomplished. Commissioner Coontz thought that the proposed recommendation could be added that the City Council consider a limited time period. This was agreed upon by the maker of the motion. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED IN RE: NEW HEARINGS: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1078 - WILLMON: Request to allow conversion of an existing residence to office at the northeast corner of Chapman Avenue and Lester Street (1111 West Chapman Avenue). (Note: Negative Declaration 660 has been prepared i n 1 i eu of an Envi ronmental Report. ) Stan Soo-Hoo presented this application to the Commission, explaining that this is a request to allow conversion of a residence to office use. The property contains .34 acre of land located on the northeast corner of Chapman Avenue and Lester Street. It is zoned C-2 (Commercial) and R-M-7 (Residential, Multiple Family, 7,000 square feet minimum lot size) and contains a two-story house that is currently being converted to an office and a garage. The Planning Commission did not require Staff to make a presenta- tion on this item because of the late hour. Staff recommends approval of Conditional Use Permit 1078 with the 18 conditions set forth i n the Staff Report. Chairman Mickelson opened the public heari ng. There being no one to speak for or against this application, the chairman closed the public hearing. Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Master, to accept the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration 660. AYES : Commissioners Mickel son, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Ault, to approve Conditional Use Permit 1078, for the reasons stated i n the Staff Report, and subject to the 18 conditions set forth i n said Staff Report. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED I] Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Fourteen CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1082, VARIANCE 1612 - THE PAINTED PONY Request to allow an arts and crafts school and limited retail sales in M-2 on the west side of Glass ell Street, north of Taft Avenue (1774 North Glass ell) . ( PJote: Negative Decl arati on 665 has been prepared i n 1 i eu of an Envi ronmental Impact Report. ) Again, Planning Commission did not require a presentation by Staff on this item. Therefore, Staff recommended approval of Conditional Use Permit 1082 with the three conditions as set forth in the Staff Report. Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing. There being no one to speak for or against this application, the chairman closed the public hearing. Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Ault, to accept the findings of the Envi ronmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration 66 5. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson, to recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit 1082 for reasons as outlined by the Staff and with the three conditions as set forth in the Staff Report. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED CONDITIONAL USE PERPIIT 1084 - LAMPPOST PIZZA: Request to allow operation of 22 coin operated electronic games i n an existi ng restaurant located on the north side of Katel la Avenue, east of Tustin Street (1737 East Katel la) . ( Note: Negative Declaration 667 has been prepared in lieu of an Environmental Report. ) The Planning Commission did not require a presentation by Staff on this item. Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing. There being no one to speak for or against this application, the chairman closed the public hearing. Moved by Commissioner Coontz, seconded by Commissioner Master, to accept the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration 667. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED Moved by Commissioner Coontz, seconded by Commissioner Master, to recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit 1084, with the five condi tions as set forth i n the Staff Report. Commissioner Master commented that this seems to be the start of a trend toward putting electronic game machines into public places. Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Fifteen AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Ault, Master NOES: Commissioners none ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS: TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP - 80-773 - SADDLEBACK ASSOCIATES: Request to allow a 23 lot industrial subdivision on the west side of Batavia Street north of Taft Avenue. Jere Murphy presented this application to the Commission, ex- pl ai ni ng that thi s i s a request to al 1 ow creati on of 23 industrial parcels. The property contains approximately 18.5 acres and is located between Batavia Street and Main Street, approximately 1056 feet north of the centerline of Taft Avenue. It is zoned N1-2 and is presently vacant. The site is generally surrounded by industrial uses in the M-2 zone. Mr. Murphy pointed out that the proposed parcel sizes ranged from .347 acre (parcel 16) to 1 .097 acres (parcels 13 and 14) . A larger parcel will also be created (2.182 acres), however, it i s not proposed to be developed at thi s time. Fifteen parcel s are proposed which would contain approximately .5 acre or less, while 8 parcels would be larger. He explained that Grove Avenue, which is presently shown as dedicated right-of-way, but which is not fully physically im- proved, is proposed to be vacated and incorporated into the applicant's subdivision. The Staff has reviewed the request and indicated that some 1 oadi ng doors are not adequately set back from the driveway and would thus obstruct traffic movement. The applicant was advised of then e deficiencies and has chosen not to correct them. Also indicated was the need for on-site fire hydrants and additional trash facilities. These latter two deficiencies can be corrected in the plan check process. Mr. Murphy stated that the Staff feels that the deficiencies noted in his presentation should be corrected in that they present functional problems which will be difficult to solve after construction. The problem of loading door locations on some of the parcels would entai 1 modi fications to the si to plan i n order to correct. He pointed out that the applicant was advised at a very preliminary stage of their planning that loading doors should be set back at least 8 feet from driveways in order to prevent obstruction. It was pointed out, for example, that on parcel 23 obstruction of the driveways by loading vehicles would prevent use of virtually the entire parking lot. Staff also rei terates its cauti on that industrial sub divisions which propose smaller lots should be discouraged in favor of larger lots which would act to attract larger industrial users. f~lr. Murphy pointed out that, as has been explained with previous industrial subdivisions smaller lots tend to promote fencing in of parking areas for outdoor storage, access problems due to obstructions i n joint or reciprocal driveways, etc . Should the Planning Commission find this proposal acceptable, the eight condi tions of the Engineer's Plan Check Sheet are recommended. Comr~issioner Coontz questioned the statements in the Staff Report with regard to deficiencies i n cul de sacs and architectural wings and Mr. Murphy explained that these had been taken care of through a revised plan, which was just submitted the end of last Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Sixteen 1~ week. The Staff Report referred to problems with the initial plan. There were more questions asked with regard to the space needed for the loading doors and P~1r. Murphy explained that the Staff has requested that there be an additional 8 feet adjacent to those doors so that a car or truck could park at the door and the parking space would still be usable opposite the door. There were further questions by the Commissioners with regard to the overh ead 1 oadi ng doors , which were explained by P1r . Murphy . Chairman Mickelson asked about future development which is not a part of the tract. He wondered if the owner of the parcel is cutting off that part and retaining it. Mr. Murphy replied that he believed that this is the existi ng intent. t~lr. Johnson pointed out that this plan assumes that the existing road right- of-way will be abandoned. The road in the middle will take its place as access to parcels to the west. Commissioner Coontz wondered what kind of recommendation the Planning Commission could make with these unresolved problems. Mr. Murphy replied that the Commission can ask for a continuance to resol ve these problems . Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing. George Bernharth, Thiebord Engineering Company, addressed the Commission on behalf of the applicant. He pointed out that it appears that after three staff hearings, there are only two items unresolved. There appears to be a philosophical difference. He explained that the size of the bui 1 di ng has no correlation with the fact that there will be outdoor activity. The question of the proper utilization of the building is a matter of the simplicity of the development. If you have a less intensive development, the need for outdoor storage does not arise. Mr. Bernharth pointed out that these buildings, by their very nature, have very small office area and will be basically light manufacturing and light warehousing. With regard to the overhead loading doors, he explained that they have utilized, since they don't know what the actual occupancy wil l be, the city criteria for parking, which is one parki ng space for each thousand square feet. He pointed out that the parking need far this type of development is far less than what the city requires . The parking rati o i n th i s city i s much higher than i n any other area. He expl ai ned that i f you average i t out, you will want to go with one parking space for every 800 square feet. This is a good rule of thumb. The parking provided is far in excess of what they will need. He brought up the Staff's statement that parking opposite the loading door is improper, feeling that this flies in the face of the whole rationale of the aisle. H e wondered why an aisle is required if they cannot put their loading door there. The loading door is served by an aisle. He explained further that they have much exnerience in this field and in their opinion this rationale does not apply here. It was their thinking that teh owner must police thi s area to ensure that these problems will not surface. He then stated that the Staff had a valid complaint about the loading doors being too close to the driveways. They are working with these areas . They can 1 ive with the other conditions . Commissioner Master asked if Mr. Bernharth had toured the city of Orange to look at parking in the industrial areas. He answered that they had designed two industrial parks in this city. Com- missioner Master then asked if the Staff had commented on parking problems i n these i ndustrial parks . Mr. Bernharth replied that Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Seventeen they had. They had driven around and found two areas where a problem was created. However, he does think that this is a matter for zoning enforcement. At this time questions were asked of Mr. Bernharth by the Com- missioners. Commissioner Coontz asked if the other two developments were a mirror of this development. The answer was no - that no development is a mirror of another, They are all individual. They do not try to get the highestpossible density. This is not the most economical way, but it makes a better looking park. Commissioner Mickelson stated that he tended to support the Staff in their recommendation, because he counted 22 such spaces where the loading door is backed up to the parking srace. He also saw many 1 ots which had single 1 oaded parking aisles, which also can create a problem. If you can double load the parking aisle, you gain a great deal of efficiency. Mr. Bernharth replied that these are wide doors. He went on to explain that people delivering to these places of business go in, drop something off, and continue on their way. There is no long term parking. He went on to say that i f i t would solve the problem, he would have no objection to eliminating the parking spaces opposite the loading doors. But then he thought they would get into trouble with the parking ordinance. If the Commission can accept a compromise by assuming a reasonable parking ratio then perhaps these problems can be solved. However, if they are tied i n to certai n parameters, then their hands are tied. Commissioner Coontz felt that industrial business are not the only businesses to come into industrial parks - some are pseudo industrial. It makes sense to follow the ordinance and recommenda- tions of Staff because there are higher utilizations of the parking areas. There being no one else to speak for or against this application, the chairman closed the public hearing. Commissioner h1aster commented that he is now involved in converting industrial buildings to office use and the parking areas can make a very big impact on such a conversion.. There was further discussion among the Commissioners in this regard. Mr. Mi nshew spoke with regard to Condition #6 on the Engineer's P1 a n Check Sheet, s tati ng that he wished to insert the words , "acceptable to the city attorney", so that Condition #6 would read: "Subject to reciprocal ingress-egress easements acceptable to the city attorney being recorded between the following parcels prior to transfer of parcel title: 12-13-14; 15-16-17-18-19-20-23." This was acceptable to the Commission. Commissioner Ault felt that the applicant's explanation was quite logical and acceptable. He pointed out that when he goes out to these various parking areas, they are empty and no one is using them. He felt that the various owners in such a park will watch their property so that it won't be messed up. Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner 1~1i ckel son, to recommend approval of Tentative Parcel Map 80-773, subject to the conditions set forth i n the Engineer's Plan Check Sheet, with the wards suggested by Mr. Mi nshew added to Condi ti on #6. Chairman Mickelson stated that he does not have a problem with the small lots, primarily that they have looked at this many times and have never gotten the Ci ty Council to do any thing about i t. 0 Planning Commission Minutes January 19, 1981 Page Eighteen However, he felt that i t i s relatively easy to design the project " to avoid the condition that has been created and he even thought that some extra square footage could be picked up of building. He would like to see the applicant take another look at their plan in order to improve it. Commissioner Master supported this reasoning. The Staff is not necessarily against the project. They are merely pointing out the problem. AYES: Commissioner Ault NOES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Master ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION DEFEATED Chairman Mickelson then pointed out that the Commission has two alternatives. They can deny the application or move for a continuance and ask for a redesign. He asked the applicant to speak to a continuance of no more than two weeks . Mr. Bernharth replied that they are not agai nst a continuance. However, they see a bigger problem in the parking and loading doors. In double loaded aisles you cannot have secure parking, which is a big hindrance to sell a property. Therefore, you try to 1 i mi t this . Al l of these aisles cannot be doubl e 1 oaded. You must give a buyer a certain privacy. You cannot accomplish this by double loaded aisles. He is concerned that they will go back and try to come up with something acceptable - some kind of a mix that is acceptable to the Commission, and the Commission wi 11 not be happy because they wi 11 sti 11 be facing some si ngl e loaded aisles. He did feel. that if this is what they are striving for, the loading should not be hindered by parking. Ei ther they should put in compact parking spaces, or no parking at all behind the loading doors. He pointed out that they do have some control with the occupancy permits. When a buyer comes in with an occupancy permit, he must state the nature of his business. If an owner has business which needs a large parking area, they can deny the permit. Mr. Bernharth then asked for a little more time this evening to discuss this si tuation with the Commission and come up with some solution rather than a continuance. Commissioner Master painted out that they have made their concerns known to the applicant weeks ago. They do not see any reason for continuing discussion this evening. I t was then explained that i f thi s appli cati on i s denied i t can be taken to the City Council. Pr1oved by Commissioner Master to deny Tentative Parcel Map 80-773 for the reasons as stated by Staff. Motion was withdrawn when the applicant stated that he would prefer a continuance. Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Coontz, to continue this matter unti 1 February 2, 1981 , so that Staff and he applicant can get together to resolve their differences. AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Master NOES: Commissioner Ault ABSENT: Commissioner Hart P~10TION CARRIED Chairman Mickelson brought up a notice which he had received announcing a seminar for Planning Commissioners, There was discussion among the Commissioners with regard to the seminar, IN RE: ADJOURNMENT: The meeting was adjourned at 10:30 p.m, to reconvene on Monday, February 2, 1981 at the Civic Center Council Chambers, 300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange, California. ~'' STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) SS AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING ORDER COUNTY OF ORANGE ) OF ADJOURNMENT Jere P. Murphy, being first duly sworn, deposes and says: That I am the duly chosen, qualified and acting secretary of the Planning Commission of the City of Oranae; that the regular meeting of the Planning Commission of the City of Orange was held on January 19, 1981; said meeting was ordered and adjourned to the time and place specified in the order of adjournment attached hereto; that on January 20, 1981, at the hour of 2:00 p.m., I posted a copy of said order at a conspicuous place on or near the door of the place at which said meeting of January 19, 1981 was held . ~~ ~J EXCERPT FROP1 THE MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ORANGE CITY PLANNING COPIP1ISSION HELD ON JANUARY 19, 1981. The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called to order by Chairman Mickelson at 7:30 p.m. PRESENT: Commissioners Mickelson, Ault, Coontz, Master ABSENT: Commissioner Hart Ploved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Plaster that this meeting adjourn at 10:30 p.m. on Monday, January 19, 1981 to reconvene at 7:30 p.m. on Monday, February ?_, 1981 at the Civic Center Council Chambers, 300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange, California. I, Jere P~urphy, Secretary to the Orange Planning Commission, Orange, California, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true, full and correct copy of that portion of the minutes of a regular meeting of the Planning Commission held on Monday, January 19, 1981. Dated this 20th day of January, 1981 at 2:00 p.m. -.~u /~ ,Jer P. P1urphy, Ci t Planne & i Sec etary to the Planni ng C mmission ~~of the Ci ty of Orange. C