HomeMy WebLinkAbout1/5/1987 - Minutes PC
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PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
City of Orange
Orange, California
January 5, 1987
Monday - 7:30 p.m.
The regular meeting of the City of Orange Planning Commission was called to
order by Chairman Greek at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
ABSENT: None
STAFF
PRESENT: Stan Soo-Hoo, Administrator of Current Planning & Commission Secretary;
Jack McGee, Associate Planner;
Gene Minshew, Assistant City Attorney;
Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: MINUTES OF DECEMBER 15, 1986
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Master, that
the ?Minutes of December 15, 1986, be approved as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSTAIN: Commissioner Hart
IN RE : NEG] HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1547, VARIANCE 1805 - FAST:
Proposed bed and breakfast inn. within the RM~-7 (Residential,
Multi-Family - 7,000 square foot minimum lot size) zone. Also
requested is a deviation from parking requirements. Located on
the northeast corner of Palmyra Avenue and Orange Street.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1116 has been prepared for this project.
___.,( "° There was no opposition to this conditional use permit so the staff
report was not presented.
The public hearing was opened.
Norm Fast, 205 East Palmyra, applicant of this project, also owns the
property at 215 East Palmyra. Feels this proposal will enhance Old
Towne's concept of restoring an old residence and then opening it's
doors so they may also enjoy it. By passing the conditional use permit,
rehabilitation efforts caill be accelerated which will increase the
adjacent property values. The structure at 205 East Palmyra is
now on the National Register of Historic Places; it was placed there
on March, 1986. T,he image of that house was placed on a bronze plaque
Planning Commission Minutes
' January 5, 1987
'~ Page 2.
at the intersection of Glassell and Almond by former Mayor Beam and
Councilman Don Smith and City staff. That dedication was on
October 23, 1986. The proposed parking spaces on site are five.
The existing on-street parking is seven spaces, and we have valet
parking available of six spaces within one block. That totals 18
spaces for those two properties. The Culver House has never had
on-site parking because it was built before the town was planned.
It was before there were tract maps and before automobiles *aere
popular. The property (historically) was the ouerflow annex for the
Palmyra Hotel which needed hitching posts, not garages or parking
spaces. It is intended to turn two of those guest rooms of the four
guest rooms into the bed and breakfast inn, The Culver House is
presently on the Old Towne Orange - a walk-thru history tour 425 -
and has been a boarding house in the past. They want to promote
low density, historic preservation. and encourage tourism and shopping
in Old Towne. Requests approval of the variance because the one
on-site parking space in question can be made up by either on-street
parking in front or at the side of the house, or by valet parking
to the six available spaces one block away. Requests approval of the
conditional use permit to ensure continued development and rehabilitation
of the City's historic structures.
Commissioner Hart stated one of the things Mr. Fast was asking for -
a variance to allow reduction in the amount of parking -and it was
~,, cited that on-street parking as making up for that deficiency. The
Commission does not count street parking as a use to make up for
adequate parking.
Mr. Fast said he was aware of the Ordinance and what it says.
Commissioner Hart said that a use of; an alternate lot some ways away
was cited.
Mr. Fast said yes; it was located at 262 South Glassell..
Commissioner Hart understands Mr. Fast has ownership in that property
and asked him if he would be willing to, by deed restriction, place one
of those spaces fnr the use of this property.
Mr. Fast said no, not by deed restriction. The ownership of that
property involves other entities, other than him personally.
Commissioner Hart said the problem with allocating those spaces is that
the use that is given to the property on Palmyra goes with the property;
not with the individual. If Mr. Fast is no longer a part of the
Palmyra property,. the use of that space on Glassell would not be valid.
Where is the hardship without the use of these extra spaces?
Mr. Fast said the hardship is that in order to do what is wanted to
preserve the property and make it into abed and breakfast, there's really
no place to put the parking that is required by the. Ordinance on the
property to make it a viable bed and breakfast. Keeping the
historic flavor of it and all that.
•Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 3.
`w,r+° Commissioner Hart stated the hardship is a self-imposed hardship.
taithout the request for the bed and breakfast, there wouldn't be a
hardship. The variance is the difficult part of this application.
He likes the idea of the bed and breakfast.
Mr. Fast does not know what to do to proceed with this. There
are such few rooms that would be available for the bed and breakfast,
that it is not going to provide a hardship to the community.
Commissioner Hart said hardship is a planning term. It is specifically
called out in the code.
Mr. Fast said they could. make a parking lot out of the front lawn,
legally probably, and it would,.. Just by the physical location of
the house, it just doesn°t warrant any other location for a garage..
There's really no place to put a garage on the 205 property. The old
garage at 215 East Palmyra was torn down and it will be replaced
with a new garage to provide more parking. They are doing everything
that they physically can do to provide the parking that is needed.
Commissioner Hart said that parking in that area (as poznted out).
has been pretty critical. Every application that has been before the
Commission in the area, the protest has always been not enough parking.
Mr. Fast said they have six children, who each have cars, and they
have two automobiles; they make it work around their property.
Commissioner Master referred to Mr. Fast's presentation at the
December 15 meeting regarding the senior ci:tizen''s development on the
southeast corner of Glassell and Palmyra. A good number of those
people speaking in opposition were concerned about parking in the
area. That point was repeated quite strongly.
Mr. Fast does not want to cloud that issue along with this issue They
are two different projects.. He is concerned about parking and is
concerned about that project in that he strongly feels that the excess
parking that is not taken care of by that project will be parking on
the street; and they will be parking in front of our property. Has not
parked their cars in front of adjacent properties nor have the
adjacent property owners parked their cars in front of the house. There
is adequate parking today in front of the house. Seven spaces are
available. With the approval of the Sunwest project, that will be
completely eliminated. If that project goes through, those seven spaces
will evaporate.
Four people spoke in favor of this project:
Oddsverre Johannessen, 271 South Orange, owns property that bounds Mr.
Fast's property to the north. His. children have never caused a hardship
to the residents when they come home and park their cars. Doesn't think
there will be any problems with parking for the bed and breakfast. Has
not seen a critical parking problem in the area during the last year
and a half.
,Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 4.
Laren Gartner, 315 S. Orange Street, lives directly across the street
from the proposed project. Began her comments with the express concern
for Mr. and Mrs. Fast: They were asked not to directly address the
current parking problems in relationship to the senior housing project
that is going in possibly across the street. Since the Commission has
prompted that question, pointed out that meetings with the people she
spoke with, that if Mr. and Mrs. Fast were willing to assure the
Commission that only senior citizens were allowed to use the bed and
breakfast, there wouldn't be any problem with the parking at all; there
wouldn't be a parking problem. It is unfortunate that it is perceived
in that nature, but that is certainly the truth. If this were a
senior's bed and breakfast, there would be no parking problem. Feels
this project will be a good neighbor policy to offer this charming old
piece of Orange's form of glory as a bed and breakfast.. Visitors will
have the experience of spending the night in one of the rooms that was
used just for that purpose many years ago when Orange was a stopping
off place between North and South Orange County. Old Towne may become
a little more well known by the graciousness of its inhabitants; a little
more understood by strangers who would leave the Fast's home a little
richer by their visit there. The Fast's are not asking approval to
add on or to change the character of this old home; they are asking to
share it with others.
Lisa Blanc, 368 S. Orange Street, feels the idea of a bed and breakfast
i.nn is a delightful idea for an old historic home and also feels it is
a delightful and refreshing addition to 01d Towne. This bed and breakfast
inn is in keeping with the 01d Towne atmosphere. Feels this type of
project should be encouraged by the City to compliment the downtown
area. Personally would welcome this addition into her neighborhood with
open arms. Stated she was. one of the first people who brought up the
parking is-sue with regard to the senior`s project. However, in light of
where their home is situated on the corner and the fact that further
down on Orange and further down on Palmyra, there are apartment
complexes, but because of where they are situated on the corner, there
are no .apartment complexes directly across the street on either side.
Therefore, they don't have. an already present problem with parking on
that corner. With regard to parking, if you look at the volume of
traffic as far as parked cars that would be generated from the possibility
of two or three rooms being offered for rent and the fact that how
many times they would all be rented at once, in comparison with the
volume of 74 units; it's such a difference that it is hard to correlate
a parking situation with a 74 unit senior citizens complex and a
historic home that has the potential of offering three bedrooms for
rent. The benefit that would be derived from using this historic
home in this way - to the neighborhood and to Orange - outweighs the
one parking spot that can be accommodated either on-street, or as
they have offered to valet park on Glassell.
Johnny Johannessen, 271 South Orange, lives in one of the back units on
the northbound side of the Fast property. Pointed out how the Fast's
have been good neighbors. The house has been immaculate, no problems
or hardship of noise during rehabilitation. Feels they would be
diligent in keeping their promises.
•Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 5.
Those opposed to this application:
Tim Smith, 2314 West Almond, feels Commissioner Hart's concern about
parking is valid. If anybody is allowed to get a conditional use
permit, saying they have on-street parking when there is an Ordinance
against on-street parking (but .it's not enforced), there is trouble.
If on-street parking is allowed in Old Towne,. it takes away from the
attractiveness of the area. There should be a restriction on that
property: Tf Mr. Fast loses that property and that space, that
should be in the conditional use permit that he has to use that
property for that space - and not on-street parking.
The applicant had no further comments.
The public hearing was closed.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council that they
accept the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file
Negative Declaration 1116.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Scott said the thing that bothered him about the
variance was the hardship needs to be displayed to meet the code.
In addition to the required parking -- four of the spaces is
suppose to be in the garage and there are only going to be two
spaces in the garage -- the fifth space that is designated is on
the north side of the property,. which is not there at this time.
Commissioner Hart already stated his concern about the lack of a perceived
hardship, but has also listened to the neighbors who are going to be
the ones most affected by the lack of parking. Likes the idea of .the
bed and breakfast; thinks it ,would be a good use. .Because of the fact
there has been almost no opposition, and because the neighbors are
joining in and speaking in favor of this, thinks he could probably
support the project. He must point out to the neighbors that spoke
in favor of it, that the Fasts may not always own that property. The
next owner may not be as accommodating. The. use goes along with
the property;. not the Fasts. He would not look favorably on someone
coming back in two or three years and complaining because the street
was loaded up with cars from someone else that had taken it over.
Another thing the neighbors must be aware of: Once this use is permitted
by a variance, everybody in the block has the same rights. They can
come in and ask and get because of a previous approved application.
That's the possibility the residents.. are faced with. As a Commission,
if that right were granted to one, it would have to be granted to all.
Commissioner Master can support the use. Thinks it's an excellent
idea. Would like to see more of that use in Old Towne. It brings to
the City some mark on the map, displaying the character, value and
worth of the Old Towne area. Perhaps the plan should be altered so
the parking requirements are not as great. The variance is the problem.
Planning Commission Minutes
-_~ ~ January 5, 1987
Page 6.
Commissioner Hart suggested after this hearing, they study the
issue of parking on bed and breakfasts as a separate issue.
Chairman Greek mentioned one thing that should have been considered
in the application -- the actual construction that is going on now
may be in violation because of an existing property line. Somewhere
along here the two properties should be joined into one lot if you
are going to create a driveway that goes over the second lot. If
the house is sold, you won't be able to get into the garage that is
being built right now.
Commissioner Hart stated it should be a parcel .map that combines the
two parcels. You have an interlocking parking agreement between
the two parcels. It would be violated if one of the parcels were
sold off.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that the
Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit 1547 and Variance
1805 (.they have to be tied together) subject. to the conditions shown
on the staff report and subject to the filing of a parcel map consoli-
dating the two lots.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Scott
NOES: Commissioners Greek, Master MOTION FAILS
Mr. Johnson stated that can be done by a lot line adjustment assuming
that both properties have the same vesting. This .hasn't been discussed
yet.
Commissioner Hart said the parking is spread out over the two lots .for
this facility so they would have to be tied together.
Chairman Greek said his reason for denial is the use seems agreeable,
but cannot see a hardship on this property.
Mr. Soo-Hoo announced that this matter is subject to appeal to the
City Council within 15 days from tonight.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1558 - MIA VILLA, INC..:
Proposed senior citizens congregate care facility within the C-1
(Limited Business) zone. Also requested are an increase in building
height and an increase in the percentage of compact car parking spaces.
This project is located on the west side of Flower Street, south of
Almond Avenue.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1110 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Soo~Hoo presented the staff report. The proposal is for a 125-unit
senior citizens congregate care facility. It will be three stories
in height. Both the use, as well as the height, require conditional
use permit approvals. Tn addition, the applicant is proposing 53% of
,Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 7.
his required parking to be in the form of compact spaces. The project
is to be located on approximately 1.8 acres of land, located on the
west side of Flower Street, south of Almond Avenue. The C-1 zoning
that exists on the property is somewhat unusual in this case in that it
is basically an island of commercial zoning surrounded by residentially
zoned property. Although the property to the west is zoned for a.znotixle
home park, iC is presently occupied by a commercial storage facility.
The applicant is proposing 125 units. This will be a congregate care
facility with units ranging in size from 300 sq. ft. to 600 sq. ft. This
will be a natural care facility vs. the more traditional apartment
type unit. There will be no individual kitchens, but rather. there
will be a communal dining area. There would also be other various group
type services and activities offered. The staff sees the general
concept of seniors-oriented housing to be very favorable. Staff
recognizes the need for this type of facility and there is absolutely
no dispute over the actual need. The problem staff has with this
proposal is the intensity of development. The proposal is for three
stories. This is particularly sensitive in light of the context of
the location of the site. To the north, as well as to the east of the
property there are presently single family homes (single story). To
the south and west, there is two story development, but there is no
three story development in the immediate vicinity at this time. Because
of this intensity, the staff recommendation is for denial. On Condition
~~16 there is an error. It should read ~Bi~lding-Deparam~nt .rather" than
Building addition.
The public hearing was opened.
John Maple, architect and planner for the project, represents Mia-Villa,
Inc., 10671 Roselle, San Diego. The history of this project is quite
lengthy and they have spent quite a bit of time working with staff and
different departments of the City to arrive at this solution. They
were disappointed to find staff's recommendation was a little bit
severe. The project is acceptable and compatible with the General
Plan. It is an unusual situation in that it is a little island of
sea up against the freeway. The use is very ideal .for the site; it`s
not a high intensity use. They are not talking about masses of cars.
The age of these people is such that they really don't drive. A shuttle
bus service is provided. At shift change, there will be 24 employees.
The viability of the project financially means they need to have "x"
number of units or spaces which we can provide services.. They tried in
planning to get the project footprint- into a paint which respected the
neighbors to :fihe nbrth.~Neighbors ~were':asked to come and review the
project a couple of weeks ago at the Rodeway Inn. A number of people
did come and look at the project. They understood the height of the
project and understood what was being proposed. Fifty percent of the
people were interested in how soon they could take a reservation to move
in. Wanted to address the immediate context of the area: the area
does have a mixture of uses. Brought an aid to show and explain to the
Commissioners. The site is really up against the end of the freeway.
Mr. Maple proceeded to show the different uses surrounding this project.
He put together a graphic. Along the residential side, in section to
scale 24 to 28 feet, a person on the third floor, 64+ feet to the
property line, plus the landscaping of the neighbors immediately to the
north, plus the nearest distance to the back of the first house, there
Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 8.
is quite a distance. Regarding the height issue, there are three-story,
high density apartment projects at the end of Flower Street. The
height is in excess of 35 feet.. There is some height precedent within
100 meters of this project. Immediately to the north in the C-2 zone,
along Chapman, there are some office-professional and offices that is
butted up right against property lines. It is understood the community
has gone through some transition and there are. in-fill projects like
this that have extenuating circumstances. They are trying to provide
residential flavor and bring a sense of scale to the project. Directly
across the street is a very nice two-story victorian wood sided residence,
which also has a certain amount of flavor. To follow up on the density,
in the design they ended up with. 34% of the project is in footprint
of the building; 33% of it is handscape; and 32% of it is landscaping.
They have tried to keep the footprint of the site to a minimum. They
are in agreement with staff and will be happy to change the parking
configuration to the proper percentages and the standard size require-
ments. They would. be willing to delete the balconies on the northly
side of the project. Balconies are not an issue, but light, air and
ventilation are needed on that side. Visual ability to the neighbors
will still be present. This firm is doing approximately 15 of these
projects throughout Southern California. They will not contribute to
the parking problems; thinks its a natural for the neighborhood.
Chairman Greek asked what the distance is on the north property line as
he felt there was a plot plan discrepancy.
Mr. Maple took the worst case -- the distance is approximately 55 feet
.from the building to the property line.
Chairman Greek said the plot plan indicates 50 feet..
Mr. Maple said there was a condition where it is 50 feet..
Commissioner Scott thought to get the 64 feet was from the landscape
shown..
Commissioner Master asked to hear from Mr. Herrell who is responsible
for the care situation.
Victor Herrell, 619 Knight Way, La Canada, stated the owner has been in
the board and care facility for over 12 years. Currently she owns a
facility in Laguna and also in San Diego. Both of these facilities
conform to the State of California Code Title 22.
Commissioner Scott asked if there is a state requirement on the number
of employees per patient: It was stated there would be 25 employees on
a shift. [Jill there be a total of 25 employees or 75 employees?
What would be the distribution of employees that would handle these
patients?
Mr. Herrell responded there would be a maximum of 24 employees at
shift change. During the morning hours, there will be the most employees.
Commissioner Scott asked if there is a state law on how many employees
you must have per people you care for?
..Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 9.
Mr. Herrell said with a board and care facility, there is none.
Commissioner Scott asked to what degree would they allow a person
to stay in this facility?
Mr. Herrell said a lot of people are ambulatory. They will be able
to come in and sign out for a period of time. During the late afternoon
and evening hours, the facility needs to know where the residents are
going; it will be monitored.
Commissioner Scott asked what level of incapacity would be permitted?
When are they forced to be moved out?
Mr. Herrell stated by law people on the 2nd and 3rd floors must be
ambulatory. On the first floor they can have the use of walkers and
wheelchairs.
Commissioner Hart added they do not provide medical care at this
level; they are not allowed to.
Commissioner Master stated the ratio of patients per employee varies
from seven to 25; that is seven patients per employee -- 17 on the
first shift, 11 on the second shift.
Commissioner Hart stated not necessarily. .There could be more than
one tenant per unit.
Those speaking in favor of the application:
Paul Shaner, 215 S. Flower, lives directly east of the proposed project.
Welcomes the development and feels it will be an improvement over what
is there now. There are high-rises immediately to the west that gives
the people there to look in his back yard than the proposed construction.
Thinks this will be quieter than what is there now in as much as the
service road will be to the south. Has occasion to hear the sanitation
trucks come in every other day at the present site and it`s not a
problem. He won`t have very far to walk when he's ready for the place!
Those speaking in opposition of the application:
Tim Smith, 2314 West Almond, located the second house from the corner
on Almond. The project is directly behind his house. His mother
attended the neighborhood meeting and was the one who brought up
somebody looking in the back yard if this structure went up. Ivy
was put up so people wouldn't be looking in their back yard. This
project will generate more traffic. Flower has a traffic problem
today; more vehicles traveling on Flower would even make it worse.
This three-story project in a single story residence area, surrounded
by single residences in every single direction except for across the
street and there are some apartments to the south that are two stories.
It is going to set a precedent for the area. On a shift change,
24 vehicles going in and out of the site, through those driveways, will
cause even more of a sound problem. The sound problem needs to be
considered.
.•Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 10.
The public hearing was closed.
Mr. Maple would like to remain available should the Commission feel
deletions or changes need to be made. tidould encourage approval as
presented; would like to leave the meeting with either a continuance
with a re-design for the removal of the balconies, which constitutes
an approval for the project, or an approval as presented.
Commissioner Hart said in regard to that statement about design: It
is not the function of the Planning Commission to pass on design.
That function belongs to the Design Review Board. Planning Commission's
function is for the proper use of the property for the project.
Mr. Maple understands that, but the staff, in their wisdom, brought up
the issue of design,
Commissioner Hart said it was indicated that the parking ratio could
be adjusted to fit the code. There is a 40% maximum on compact.
Mr. Maple responded there would be no problem.
Commissioner Hart said the economic viability of the project is not
Commission's concern either. If you paid too much for the project,
that's your tough luck. The Commission will not bail you out. That's
the disclaimer.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
the Planning Commission recommend to the City Council to accept the
findings of the Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration
1110.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that the
Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit 1558 subject to
the conditions with an added condition that the parking be brought up
to City standards of 40% compact. Also included in this motion would
be the revision of Condition ~~16.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Hart .feels this project will partially solve a major
problem in the future of adequate housing for the senior citizens.
The Orange 2000 Committee discussed the housing issue and they pointed
out if we don't gain in population, we will have a need for 20,000
units in the City of Orange for senior citizens. T~e're a long ways
from that.
Commissioner Scott commented on Condition ~~4; he's glad to see the
tenants had to be 62 or over instead of 55, which he doesn't consider
to be a senior citizen.
• Planning Commission Minutes
,, January 5, 1987
Page 11.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1562 - BOECKER:
Proposed two-story second living unit within the RD-6 (RCD) zone
located on the north side of Van Bibber Avenue east of Shaffer
Street (539 E. Van Bibber Avenue).
NOTE: This project is exempt from Environmental Review.
Mr. Soo-Hoo presented the staff report. The proposal is for approximately
1,300 square foot two-bedroom unit. There is an error in the staff
report. It cites the square footage of the unit as 9$0 square feet.
That 980 refers to the living area on the first floor; on the second
floor there is an additional approximately 400 square feet. On the
ground floor there would be a three-car garage. That, as well as
an open space on the driveway which would front to Van Bibber, would
provide the parking to meet the requirements of the Municipal Code.
As the Planning Commission may recall, in June, 1986, a two-story
second unit was also considered by the City for property that is two
doors to the east of this site. In that case., there was a proposal for
an 1,100 square foot, two-bedroom unit.. The Planning Commission
approved the application, but on appeal to the City Council, the Council
ultimately reversed that approval, which resulted in denial of the
conditional use permit and the ultimate withdrawal of the project
from development. The concern that was cited at the City Council
Meeting, which were cited in the conditions of disapproval, basically
revolved around the existing single stories, single-family character
of Van Bibber, and the concern that a two-story development would
not be in character with this area. Because of the concern that was
indicated by the City in that case, staff feels unable to recommend
approval of this application. Staff would like to bring out that
basically staff's review of the site plan shows that all development
standards of the R-2 zone would be complied with on this proposal.
Overall, the staff's reaction is that the design was a very good one..
The concern staff has is basically to be consistent with the City's
previous action on the conditional use permit. Staff feels it is
important to consistently treat the property owners in this area and
feels the only recommendation capable of forwarding to the Commission
is one of denial.
Commissioner Scott stated on Page 3 it said staff would study the
need for the one story limitation in the subject area. How fax has
that study progressed?
Mr. Soo-Hoo responded there is an understanding by staff that there is
a desire to investigate the entire Old Towne area. That study would
be joined with the study presently in place for the 01d Towne Guidelines.
The work program has been developed. The actual study itself has
not been done.
The public hearing was opened..
. Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
' Page 12.
John Killen, architect, 144 N. Orange, represents the Boeckers on this
project. They submitted a letter in response to staff`s comments.
In that response, the five main items were addressed: (1) Staff
shared the concerns with Council that the project may result in the
deterioration and loss. of value o£ the area due to an incompatability
with the 01d Towne district; (2) that the proposal does not
allow a transition from "01d Towne" development to a newer,. more•
efficient use; (_3) that the project may encourage an intrusion of privacy
of adjacent residents; (4) that the project may establish a precedent
and encourage similar two-story residential buildings not in keeping
with .the Old Towne theme; and (5) that the project would increase
dwelling density and traffic circulation in the area. In rebuttal,
the response to the issue of deterioration/loss of value was that
a project built with sensitivity and concern for the Old Towne district
probably would increase the value of the properties in the area.
Items 2 and 3 are covered by one response, which is the issue o.f
transition of Old Towne development to a newer, more efficient
project. One of the. few things that people who own .property in the
Old Towne-can do, in lieu of moving out of the area and turning their
properties over as rentals or re-selling them, is to up the density
within the limits of the code and provide additional dwelling area
for senior family members or possible future rental property. Feels
the project complies with the Planning requirements for parking,
complied with the zoning allowances for two-story dwelling units, and
architecturally tried to respond to the existing California bunualow
influence in that neighborhood, both in terms of massing, materials
and detailing. This project did go to E.R.B. twice; the first time, the
recommendation from staff was that it was a good project; that they
should proceed with it. The second response when it was submitted
for Planning Commission review, was the staff report which was reviewed.
The vote for denial is obviously prompted by Council's concern for
the previous project, The projects do differ. The previously denied
project. was a full second floor addition over a garage, with an exterior
stair designed specifically for rental use.- This project differs in
that it is intended as a residence for a single retired family member
and use by the family that currently lives in the existing residence.
The second floor bedroom is oriented mainly to the existing residence.
It`s not the full footprint of the ground floor space; its a partial
area. Access to it is through the unit itself. It is not by an
exterior stair. The westerly facing elevation is designed in such a
way that it is considerate of the single. story addition that was built
on the west side of the neighbor's property.. The building is two
story only on the southwest corner. It would scale down and that
two story is under one single roof. It would scale down to a single
story element along the alley, to the north. part of the property and
along the easterly elevation, and along more than half of the southerly
elevation. It does differ in a lot of ways if we are responding to
the issue of. consistency.
Commissioner Hart stated that it was indicated the addition is for
the benefit of an existing family member. How can that be ensured?
Mr. Killen said there was not a way to ensure that. The intent of this
current development is the housing of his clients' mother.. Design
and requirements of the zoning code have been taken into consideration.
'Planning Commission Minutes
,. January 5, 1987
Page 13.
Commissioner Hart stated in looking at the plans it is two bedrooms/
two baths.
Mr. Killen said that was correct. In the future it could be•a rental
unit, but that is not the intent right now.
Those speaking in favor of the application:
Kenneth Long, 18822 Fowler Avenue, Santa Ana, owns property at 551 E.
Van Bibber, two doors east of the Boecker property. Talked with the
Boeckers about their plans and intentions; feels .their plans are very
well done and in keeping with Old Towne. He is the one that presented
the previous application which was denied by City Council. Feels
this plan is superior to the one he presented;. it's much more
compatible to the neighborhood and it would be an asset. As far as
property values are concerned, that would in no way be detrimental
to the property values along that street. There is a two-story house
already on that street and two-story developments surround the
area.
Louise Boecker, 539 E. Van Bibber, would like to answer the question
about the elderly member of the family -- it is her mother. The
reason for the second floor bedroom is for her to come and live with
them if she can have a home of her own and a bedroom of her own. The
only way they can put a home on their property with two bedrooms is
to have one bedroom. upstairs. As far as traffic and density, she's
one person. There is no guarantee she will live forever, but she will
probably outlive some of the neighbors who are objecting to this. She
has a car and does drive; .she's very active. The house they are
building is very similar to the existing house. Loves Orange and
has lived here for 18 years; does not want to move.
Those speaking in opposition to the proposal:
Marsha Bolanos, 567 Van Bibber, 15 year resident in the neighborhood.
Spoke on behalf of her neighbors and voiced opposition to the issuance
of a conditional use permit. The reasons cited for opposition
referred hack to City Council's denial of a prior proposal. The
approval of this project would escalate into more buildings and would
change the uniqueness of the neighborhood and eventually Old Towne.
Zoning needs to be studied along with the other study being conducted
in Old Towne. Suggested maybe even downzoning many of the Old Towne
areas, including their neighborhood.
Dale Rahn, 350 N. Harwood, President of Old Towne Preservation Association.
Has been before Planning Commission and City Council numerous times
with similar requests for property owners within Old Towne asking for
increase of density for their properties and setting precedences as
far as height limitations within their area. This continues to be a
major concern to the Association and the residents of Old Towne.
Considering the intensity of the issue of increased density within the
Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 14.
Old Towne area, not necessarily East Van Bibber, but all of Old
Towne, and considering that there are a number of issues before the
Planning Staff concerning guidelines and property uses within
the Old Towne area, he urges denial of this project. Feels this
will continue to be a problem that needs to be addressed. Proposes
a Master Plan be developed for the Old Towne area, other than the
General Plan, to evaluate and plot out the goals and long-term
objectives of the Old Towne neighborhood. The area is in a
transition now.. Believes guidelines are needed to direct applicants
in developing their properties.
Commissioner Hart asked Mr. Rahn a couple of questions regarding
his comments on a study of the Old Towne area, as it affects this
property. The previous speaker offered a solution of downzoning,
which would mean that essentially all properties would be zoned
R-l, which would stop the duplex -- two units to a lot. It would
not affect, however, the building of a new two-story home. There
are many two-story homes that are Victorian and he finds no
objection to the two-story homes. That could be accommodated by
downzoning to limit the building to one unit ,per lot. Is that something
you visualize?
Mr. Rahn was not prepared to say that now. Thinks the issue is the
preservation of the neighborhoods, but is not sure how that would
be accomplished. As more and more units are built onto the back
'""" of the existing old homes, the tendency is that the second owner becomes
an absentee landlord. The front house is rented and the rear house
is rented. As that takes place, a transition takes place in the
neighborhood. No longer are residents there for a long period of time;
no longer is the community developed. It becomes a transient
neighborhood. Not sure if downzoning has to be done. In limiting
height, in essence that is a process that protects existing property.
Commissioner Hart stated the Commission is not responsible for
the applications that come before them. They act as the hearing body
for all applications. Sees downzoning as a solution if .the property
owners want that. The property is zoned for duplex. To avoid all
these public hearings for duplexes is to zone the property R-1. Then
see what that does to your property values.
Chairman Greek said if this property were zoned R-1, and this addition
were added to the existing house, it would satisfy as a single family
residence even though two families were living there. The problem
encountered by the Commission is to satisfy the requirements of the
City Council, but still listen to the needs of the community. It's a
tough problem; there is no simple solution.
Commissioner Hart said it would eliminate the legal structures. It
would encourage the operation of illegal structures. Another thing that
has not been addressed is the Granny Flat Law, which the state of
California has put upon us. If they do re-zone and keep denying the
proposals, that's going to come down on them. There is no control over
that.
i
''
•' Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 15.
Chairman Greek said there are no restrictions on a single family
house addition. There is an existing zoning and it's an interpretation
of that zoning. A solution from the residents in the neighborhood
would be welcomed by the Commission. If you are sincere about down-
zoning to R-1 for the entire area, that would be a way to control it.
Not the height, but you could also control that to re-zone it to
single family, single-story residences -- if that is what you really
want.
Mr. Rahn has sent a number of proposals on impacts to the area, as
well as development standards to the staff, Planning Commission and
City Council. Staff is looking .into those. Have also submitted through
the Chamber of Commerce Economic Development Committee a number of
proposals for Old Towne. Those are our ideas collectively.
Commissioner Hart does not relish the idea of forcing upon the residents
who thought they were buying an R-2 lot, the concept of a R-1. He
would rather Old Towne Preservation take that heat.
Mr. Rahn personally lives on a R-2 and has chosen not to develop it for
that very reason.
Goldie Hicks, 576 Van Bibber, has lived there for 41 years. It's a
R-2 lot, but you have to have garages. Parking can be a problem. The
homes are single story except one at 590 Van Bibber. Would like to
see it kept the way it is if possible.
The applicant appreciates Commissioner Harts discussion and many
points that were made are valid. He is also a homeowner in Old Towne
and is very much interested in the preservation of the Old Towne
character. The Boeckers are not trying to create a neighborhood
controversy. A plan was developed quite innocently and came up with
a concept which met the needs of the family. Mr. Boecker has been
very diligent in taking this plan around and showing it to all the
neighbors. Thinks there is a little bit of misrepresentation that 22
of the 24 neighbors on the street is opposed to this. That's not the
case. Letters signed by many of the neighbors agreeing to the project
were submitted to Planning.
C
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Scott made one statement regarding parking. The staff
report indicates there will be a three-car garage and a fourth parking
stall will be provided by the driveway, What is existing now is just
a one car garage. Three additional spaces will be added instead of one.
Parking is not the problem.
Commissioner Master said it's a dilemma in that the applicant has come
under the existing zoning that the Commission and Council would approve
something like this; however, the Council has spoken. That leaves
a situation where the intent when the re-zoning took place in the RCD
overlay was just that. It would require approval by both the Commission
and Council.
,.Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 16.
Chairman Greek stated the intent is to preserve the established
harmony, character and scale of the existing neighborhood, and
permit the more orderly transition of existing older development
to a newer, more efficient use while preserving the structures
and' landmarks which are historically significant to the area (as
read from the staff report). Further down, a conditional use
permit is required for both single .family homes aad twa family
residential homes.
Commissioner Master said the transition right now is restoration
rather than the transition to a more efficient use.
Moved by Commissioner Master recommending denial. of Conditional
Use Permit 1562 for the reasons so stated by staff.
There was no second to above motion.
MOTION DEAD
Commissioner Hart stated that he is hopefully known far consistencv. He did vote
~, for approval of fhe other project on Van Bibber and doesn't believe
the conditions have changed. Believes a denial would be a political
decision; not a planning decision. The applicant has met all the
conditions that are required for the property.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that the
Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit-1562 subject to
the conditions as shown on the staff report.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Scott
NOES: Commissioner Master
MOTION CARRIED
Mr. Soo-Hoo announced this decision is subject to appeal to the
City Council within 15 days.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1557 - ORLIJAN:
Proposed establishment of a pawn shop within an integrated commercial/
industrial development within the M-1 (Industrial) zone on the north-
west corner of Katella Avenue and Glassell Street.
NOTE: This project is exempt from Environmental Review.
No one opposed this proposal; therefore, a staff report was not presented.
Don Orlijan, owner of Don's Jewelry on Katella. Was in business for
15 years in Santa Ana, Because of redevelopment there, he had to move.
Thought the City of Orange would not accept his project.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that the
Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit 1557 subject to the
staff's six conditions.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
,.Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 17.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1559 - REORGANIZED CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST
OF LATTER DAY SAINTS:
Proposed use of existing church facilities for the temporary
housing of homeless persons within the RM-7 zone on the east
side of Tustin Street north of La Veta Avenue.
NOTE: This project is exempt from Environmental Review.
Mr. Soo-Hoo presented the staff report. The request is to allow
a shelter for the homeless. This would not be individuals, but
oriented towards homeless families, It is to be housed in an
existing dormitory facility located at the church on the east side
of Tustin -- 395 South Tustin. The site contains approximately
3.5 acres of land. The structures on the site are a main church
building towards the front of the lot, as well as a building to the
rear. This rear building contains administrative offices, as well
as a dormitory type facility together in one building. The subject
proposal relates exclusively to the rear building, The dormitory
wing would include eight family bedrooms. Of these eight bedrooms,
they would accommodate a maximum of six persons each. In addition,
there are bath, shower, dining and kitchen facilities which exist
in the building itself. The dormitory was built by the church for
the purpose of accommodating weekend retreats. This facility was
approved by Conditional Use Permit 452 by the Planning Commission
in 1969. The application now is to take this existing facility to
use for housing the homeless families rather than retreats. The
program is being offered by the Christian Temporary Housing Facilities
organization, which presently operates a similar type facility on
North Glassell in Orange. The recommendation of the staff is that
the location for this purpose is a good one. Because of the location
of the dormitory building to the rear of a large lot, there would be
minimum impact to adjacent properties.. Staff`s experience with
Christian Temporary Housing has satisfied them they do have the admins-
trative ability to control such a program so there is little noticeable
effect on adjacent properties. Staff recommends approval with the
17 conditions listed on the staff report.
F~ The public hearing was opened.
Gloria Rasmussen,1725 N. Williamsburg, Orange, applicant and member of
the Orange congregation of the Rearganize~ Church of Jesus Christ Latter
Day Saints. They are requesting to utilize an already existing facility
on the back of the church property as a temporary shelter for homeless
families. This is to be called."Project Hope". She is also the President
of the Project Advisory Committee for Project Hope, which will act
in an advisory capacity to the Christian Temporary Housing Facility
Board. This organization will lease the facility from the church and
will administer the program on a day-to-day basis,
Mike Elias, Director of Christian Temporary Housing, 125 West Rose
Avenue. Dealing with the homeless, during the last ten years, has seen
a tremendous growth. Wish he could report that the problem is getting better
.. Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 18.
but it is not. Last year there were over 25,000 people who asked for
help. Of those 25,000 people, two-thirds of them were children. The
stereo type of the homeless is the wino, the person that is out for a
free handout, but ,the people seen at CTHF are the workers who are the
workers who are without a place to go to at night. The clients are
working, children go to school -- that's part of the program. They
just don't have a roof to go home to at night. Wishes there could be
a solution to the homeless problem. Feels through hard work and
people having a place to stay for up to 60 days does give a person
an opportunity to get the first and last month's rent, does help them
to stabilize and then look for a place to live. That's the program at
CTHF. Have been successful in getting 87% of their clients back into
the mainstream of the community. One of the problems in dealing with
the homeless is that the media has portrayed the homeless - specifically
the mentally i11 - CTHF has resisted or are not even equipped to take
the mentally i11. Families are the only people taken. Yesterday they
found 197 families that were on the streets during the rain storm.
He is dedicated to seeing the. homeless come to a solution. Shelters
are a necessary commodity. Feels this site is perfect for their
program: total privacy, no parking problems. Their dream is to give
the families with children shelter to re-establish their lives.
Those speaking in favor of this application:
Dr. Art Oswald, retired, 12061 Marquis Circle, Santa Ana. Has been
associated with CTHF-since its inception. They rehabilitated the
building on North Glassell to house clients. At that location there
is very limited space, small bedrooms and not enough room. They do
plan on putting up a fence at the new location so the area will be
restricted where the children will be playing. The reputation of
CTHF has been exemplary with little problems in dealing with the
community. The local residents do not complain about the children
now.
Perry Pace, 1904 East Palm, and owns Pace's Jewelers at 813 South
Tustin. This project begins to address a problem that we will see
more of in the City of Orange.. Across the street from his business
he watched a woman live in her car during the ~dnth of 'November.
Robert Warden, 2993 N. Cottonwood ~~9, is one of the associate pastors
of the congregation. They responded to this opportunity that they
would be able to reach out to some of the people and might be able to
help because the facility would be there. The facility is not being
used to it's potential now.
Erica Gatz, 232 N. Center, wanted to commend the church for taking the
advantage and initiative for housing the homeless. As citizens of
Orange, it is our responsibility to contribute in finding housing for
the homeless; it is a problem.
Carol Keck, 2321 Conifer Lane, Tustin, is a member of the congregation.
As of a year and a half ago, she was a transient. If it wasn't for
the members of this congregation reaching out for the home~ess...there
are many circumstances a person does not plan fqr moving and they
ended up with their three children -- no home, not knowing anybody.
,. Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 19.
Nettie 8oughman,.148.11 Rdgeboro Tustin, is a member of the congre-
gation. This project will impact the church congregation the most.
After examining the need in the community,. their congregation could
be almost 100% in favor of this project. There will be some problems
in adjusting to this, but they are anxious to become involved in this
project. The problem of homeless people. is too vast not to address
it.
Dorothy Acton, 444 S. Tustin, lives across the street from the church.
Has seen all kinds of transients. Has worked with CTHF. The people
they take in are not the winos. There is a misconception going around
now. They are families and they are rehabilitated. She welcomes the
shelter and thanks the church for .offering .this opportunity.
Barbara Arbushar, 18881 :?atricia Drive, Villa Park, is a member of
the Church of St. Mary Magdalene, which has. worked with Michael
Elias and CTHF. Thinks he has been an inspiration to their church.
Her congregation wishes to help the. staff and to work wit'n them.
Feels this is a need the City of Orange must look at because yogi can't
close your eyes when you have children sae~png in .tfie. ~b~u~s~hes: " 'This
place is a beautiful one and will help many people.
Those speaking in opposition:
Lawrence Kosmin, owns the Tustin Avenue Veterinary Hospital, 434 S.
Tustin, directly across the street from the church. Sounds like
a very commendable organization; doesn't know if he is opposed to what
they are doing. Has heard rumors of the transients in the area, but
sees that is not what it is. However, there is another problem --
a commercial problem that has not been addressed. Doesn't know
how much parking is going to be involved. This church already leases
a certain amount of parking to the Care Unit, which is a big parking
problem in the area.
Karen Miner, 179 S. Lincoln Street, was under a completely different
impression about transients. She is a school teacher and likes the
children also. However, she does not feel guaranteed that the organi-
zation is going to take in only families. Does not know what her
guarantee is as a homeowner. Feels strongly about the City of Orange;
moved here because it is an established community.
Jim Herrington, 616 Amboy Street, Anaheim,: owns the-four=p.Zex.apartments
behind the church. Concerned that there is going to be 40 people
in the facility. There is no fence other than a small, three foot
fence along the back side of the property. Concerned with the kids
playing out there. If the church could build a fence - block wall -
as there is on both the north and south side of the facility, then
that would satisfy his concern. Other concerns are noise, lighting --
is that mercury vapor lighting?
Mr. Soo-Hoo believes there are a number b~ di~_ferent lighting types that
could be used. The applicant would need to work with the Police
Department. The police are concerned with the level of light; not
the type.
_ Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
' Page 20.
Mr. Herrington is also concerned with security. Who is going to be
there to look after the children, the people? Thinks the detrimental
effect would be the turnover as a result of the disruption in their
lives. If there is vandalism to the surrounding properties, who is
going to be responsible for it? Believes everyone should have a
place to sleep.
Henry Taecker, 374 S. Tustin, owns E1 Dorado .Shopping Plaza. Represents
32 tenants and occupants of the Plaza. They wanted him to express
their opposition to this project. Their reasons include the already
existing Care ?~a.nor who rehabilitate people with excessive drug/alcohol
problems. Feels the people being housed in this project are still
transients who will be loitering at their. shops. Feels this is not
a healthy situation. The rear of the shopping center has trash around
the dumpsters, broken glass and needles, evidence of pot being smoked.
The children will be exposed to a worse environment. Mr. Taecker
has been told by his tenants they will leave the premises when their
lease expires because of the increasing problems in the Plaza. Public
liability insurance on the Plaza tripled last year. Insurance rates
will soar even more if accidents keep occurring.
Chris Christensen,l63 S. Shattuck Place, concerned about the transient
children. Palmyra School will be used by these children. It's almost
to capacity now. It's a safety situation: those children will have
to cross Tustin -- a traffic nightmare at this point.. This needs to
be looked into. Concerned with police/fire. protection. Who is going
to pay for these services? Should not put ourselves in a position where
vandalism would have .the possibility of increasing.
Jeff Nadler, 444 S. Tustin, ~~Al, his home is located down the street
from the project. Concerned about the potential and quality of life
of the residents in the surrounding neighborhoods. Not because of
the people who are accepted into the shelter, but because of those who
are not. The establishment of the shelter-will become known on the
street and will draw transients to the area.
Faith Rajack, 444 S. Tustin, in the Orange Gables, is not certain she
is 100% opposed to the project, but what is to prevent the expansion
of the facility and therefore bring in further amounts of homeless families,
increasing the potential for the possible negative impact on the neigh-
borhood. Other problems: crowded .conditions, parking, other types of
homeless people coming to the neighborhood. Is worried about these
things as it relates to the future of her neighborhood.
Georganne Keyster, 1204 E. Fairway Drive, has lived there 14 years. Her
property backs up to the Garden Grove Freeway. Half of the street
is lined with Oleanders and they have had the misfortune of finding
someone living in the bushes. There are numerous problems because
of parking and traffic on Tustin. It is impossible to use Tustin in
the mornings. Sympathizes with the homeless; knows it is a problem.
However, feels Tustin Street is not the right place. Traffic is her
main objective. Can there be a guarantee the people will stay at the
facility 30-60 days. Are they stablized, do they have a place to go,
are they .going to come back in another 10 days and are you going to
have a waiting line of 300 people to get in?
Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
Page 21.
;,'
Mr. Elias spoke regarding the citizens' concerns. They are mandated
by the state of California to carry a million dollar insurance policy.
They have been in business 10 years; it's not something they dreamed
up over night. It is a viable, proven program. Encouraged people
to come down to their shelter at 704 N. Glassell and they will not
see people lined up. CTHF does not do a hand out policy. They. are
opposed to that. Tt is their belief people should work. He is
opposed to increasing the size of the shelter; will not warehouse
people in big buildings. He is a social worker and is for the family.
Believes in the family staying together. The shelter calls for
48 people. It has eight bedrooms for eight families; they do not
mix families. It is against state law to combine two families to a
room. They can guarantee the families because the state of California
has given them money to operate the shelter. They must abide by their
regulations. In reference to the shopping center concerns, the
shopping area close to Glassell Street reports business has increased
and vandalism has not increased. These are people like all of us.
Does not have control over the schools. That is another issue.
[,Thy should the children be denied an education just because they are
without shelter? There is a 24--hour staff. Their intake procedure
is not conducted on-site. There will be no walk-ins at the site.
Screening will take place in Anaheim. They do not take everybody;
some people do not fit into this category. The shelter is run by
the residents in terms of cleaning up, etc. People look after their
own children. Tt is a disservice to put a label on a group of people
and expect them not to operate like other people. There will also
be a live-in manager at the shelter,
Ms. Rasmussen addressed the parking issue. There are 88 parking spaces..
They have filled 78 with a reserve of 10. They are allowing 9 spaces
for the clients. That is allowing for the 8 families having a car.
There is also a space for the full-time staff member. There is adequate
room to park.
Commissioner Hart stated Mr. Herrington had a concern about the
fence.
Ms. Rasmussen said that was one of the first concerns they addressed.
Tt will be fenced off to contain the children in the back area where
there is a patio. It wonFt be block wall but chain link, high enough
so the children will not crawl over.
Chairman Greek asked how many spaces they rent to the Care Unit?
Ms. Rasmussen is not clear on exactly how many spaces are rented -- 76
spaces, but only during the morning hours. They don't rent those spaces
on the weekends. There is parking in the back, in front of the offices
too -- about 18 spaces behind the building that cannot be seen from the
street. (Those 18 are included in the 88 spaces.)
0
Commissioner Hart thought the problem was the resentment to the Care
Manor Facility spilling over onto this project. That is not the issue
here.
Mr. Soo-Hoo made a point regarding possible expansion. There is a
Planning Commission Minutes
` Janaury 5, 1987
Page 22.
condition that staff suggested for approval to limit the occupancy
to 48. In addition, their understanding from. the Fire Department
is that it is virtually the limit to occupancy from their standpoint.
They will enforce that. Should there be any physical expansion of
this facility, there would need to be a new public hearing for a
conditional use permit so everyone would be notified once again.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Scott stated the location of 704 N. Glassell is not
visual when driving by. Has not seen it to be .a problem.
Commissioner Hart thought the people who had concerns-about the
operation should drive by and view it.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Master, that
the Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit 1559 for
the reasons listed and subject to the conditions listed.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Mr. Soo-Hoo announced the decision of the Planning Commission is
final unless it is appealed to the City Council within 15 days.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PER'~IIT 1560, TENTATIVE PAF,CEL PRiAP 86-424 - TdILMA-
_ _ _ _ _. _ _
PACIFIC:
Proposed industrial subdivision of a 5.5 acre parcel into seven lots,
five of which do not have direct frontage on a public street. Located
on the east side of Main Street, south of Taft Avenue.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1111 has been prepared for this project.
There was no opposition; therefore, a staff report was not presented.
Carlos Elvin, Irvine Civil Engineering, 3187 Airiaay Ave:; Costa",Mesa,
is.nof .the applicant; he has been delayed.
Mr. Johnson commented the conditions of this project were set some time.
ago and basically they are normal condtions in regard to infrastructure
and improvements. One of the things excluded from review was that the
drainage from this facility goes out_ to the west along the east side of
Main; then goes into the Edison right-of-way via a catch basin. This
entry in recent years has been disturbed by activities in and around the
Christmas tree farms. Staff feels it should be the-duty of this develop
ment to make sure the drainage .being contributed from this project does
not create problems in the street where there may be back up of nuisance
water. This developer should be responsible for making sure the drainage
is taken care of from the point it enters the catch basin until the tithe
it gets to the under ground drain.. Does not believe this will require
an under ground storm drain, but will require possible. re-grading and
maybe a portion of drainage facilities. Unfortunately it is off-site;
Planning Commission Minutes
January 5, 1987
` Page 23
it is not on the site of the project.
Chairman Greek stated that was no problem and asked if Mr. Johnson
would like to make a condition.
Mr. Johnson could make a general condition... Doesn't know if it would
give them much leeway or not. Would prefer that type of thing. This
would be a condition on the parcel map.
Chairman Greek said the conditional use permit is going to allow
development of the property even if the map is never filed. Thinks
there will be a problem when the property is developed.. Tf it is
a drainage problem, it should be put on both.
Commissioner Hart said whatever is enforceable. in Mr. Johnson's
estimation. The parcel map would probably not proceed unless there
was development of the property; there is no problem unless there
is development of the property. It could be included as part of
the parcel map condition. Some condition similar to the requirement
for adequate off-site drainage improvements to ensure that a
maintenance problem within. Main Street is .not required. Once it
leaves the tract boundaries, the problem becomes the City's.
Chairman Greek stated again. his concern with the property being
developed under a conditional use permit and the tentative map is
not filed, then the condition would not be included. It's .possible
to develop this as a rental. The tentative map would not be of
any value .unless the property were developed.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that the
Planning Commission recommend to the City Council that they accent
the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration
1111.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that the
Planning Commission recommend to the City Council to approve Conditional
Use Permit 1560 and Tentative Parcel Map.86-424. Conditional Use Permit
to add one more Condition 4~7, which would require adequate o.ff-site
drainage to ensure no flooding of t~.ain Street as approved by the City
Engineer. The Tentative Parcel Map is to include all twelve conditions
outlined in the staff report,
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTTON CARRIED
IN RE: OTHER ITEMS
Commissioner Scott. brought up the issue of the possible study session
for parking requirements for bed and breakfast.
Commissioner Hart suggested setting the meeting for 2/2/87, and asked
staff to provide them with ideas/suggestions.
,~ Planning Commission Minutes
y '+ January 5, 1987
Page 24.
~,
Mr. Soo-Hoo will note the study sessions on the Agendas for the
Commissioners.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:45 p.m., to reconvene at a regular
meeting on January 19, 1987, at 7:30 p.m., at the Civic Center Council
Chambers, 300 E. Chapman Avenue, Orange, California.
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