HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/5/1981 - Minutes PCPLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
City of Orange
Orange, California
October 5, 1981
Monday, 7:30 p.m,
The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called to order
by Chairman Mickelson at 7:30 p,m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Vasquez
ABSENT: Commissioner Master
STAFF Jere P. Murphy, Administrator of Current Planning and Commission
PRESENT: Secretary; Stan Soo-Hoo, Associate Planner; Gene Minshew,
Assistant City Attorney; Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and
Doris Ofsthun, Recording Secretary.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 21, 1981
Commissioner Coontz asked fora correction to the minutes on page 14,
paragraph 3 - "...She wondered which of these categories was grouped
in order to...", add: "...arrive at the 60% figure which the report
indicates is the percentage of white collar workers in Orange."
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Vasquez, to
approve the minutes of September 21, 1981, as corrected.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioner Master MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN:
REVISED TENTATIVE TRACT 11486 - LINDQUIST - Item #3 on the Agenda,
under "New Hearings". Mr. Murphy explained that the applicant had
requested that this item be dropped to the end of the agenda, in
order to give applicant's attorney time to get to the hearing,
Chairman Mickelson explained to the audience that this item would
be taken in its turn on the agenda and it would be decided at that
time whether it should be moved to the end of the agenda.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS:
PRE-ZONE CHANGE 955, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1152, TENTATIVE
TRACT 11636 - QUIST:
Request for prezoning from County R-4 to City RM-7 and consideration
of a 9-unit Planned Unit Development on the west side of Ocean View
Avenue, north of Lincoln Avenue. (8721 and 8731 Ocean View Avenue).
(Note: Negative Declaration 732 has been prepared in lieu of an
Environmental Impact Report.)
Stan Soo-Hoo presented this application to the Commission, stating
that this is a request to prezone property from County R-4 to City
RM-7 and to allow development of a 9-unit planned unit development.
The property contains .614 acre of land and is located on the west
side of Ocean View Avenue, 152 feet north of Lincoln Avenue. It
contains two single family residences and is located in unincorporated
area zoned R-4, The applicant is requesting prezoning to RM-7 to
facilitate annexation into the City of Orange, as well as approval of
a conditional use permit and tentative tract map to permit development
of a 9-unit planned unit development. Mr. Soo-Hoo pointed out that
the density proposed for the project is 14,66 dwellings/ac., with
off-street parking of 18 enclosed and 5 open parking spaces, for a
total of 23 parking spaces, or 2.55 spaces/unit. Density standards
fora planned unit development in the RM-7 zone are 16.33 dw/ac with
.25 off-street parking spaces/unit required.
,t ~
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Two
Mr. Soo-Hoo explained that the residents of the Olive community have
addressed the Planning Commission and City Council regarding their
desire to protect the character of this area by maintaining present
street widths and not having curbs, gutters, and sidewalks installed
with development. City Counci 1 has directed Staff to work with the
residents of the area to develop acceptable street standards. Staff
feels that it would be appropriate to receive a bond for public im-
provements at this time with no physical work to be performed until
such area standards are adopted.
It was pointed out that the general plan designates the area for
medium density (6-15 dw/ac) residential development.
Staff has reviewed the proposal and found it to be technically
acceptable, but requested that a preliminary grading plan be sub-
mitted because of the topography of the site.
Staff recommends that the findings of the Environmental Review Board
to file Negative Declaration 732 be accepted.
Staff feels that this project is acceptable, particularly in light
"" of the fact that a project of similar density was constructed im-
mediately west of the subject site. Staff therefore recommends
approval of the proposal for the reasons that the proposal is con-
sistent with the City's adopted General Plan; and that the proposal
is compatible with surrounding land use and zoning.
Approval is recommended with the 21 conditions listed in the Staff
Report, together with the conditions set forth in the Engineer's
Plan Check Sheet.
Mr. Soo-Hoo further pointed out that the density proposed, if this
property is annexed into the City of Orange, is comparable to the
density proposed for the County of Orange. He also explained that
the Fire Department has requested an on-site fire hydrant on the
property.
Chairman Mickelson asked if the property which was approved immediately
west of the subject property some weeks ago was approved in the same
manner by the City Council. Mr. Soo-Hoo answered in the affirmative.
Chairman Mickelson then asked if they also approved the condition to
leave the streets unimproved. Mr. Soo-Hoo explained that it was his
understanding that the Public Works Department is now studying possible
standards for the Olive area. In the meantime, bonds are being posted
and the dedication i s being made with the i ntenti on .that i f th e street
standards are modified all of this can be adjusted. A final decision
has not yet been made, however. It is still under study at this time.
He pointed out that this is essentially the only occasion the city
would have to gain dedication for improvements.
Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing.
Bud Quist, 2957 Catal pa, Newport Beach, the applicant, addressed the
Commission in favor of this application. He showed a rendering of
the plan for the proposed 9 units, explaining that these units wi 11
al 1 be two-bedroom, 1 2 bath units with two-car garages . There wi 11
be two parking spaces in front of each garage. He stated that they
would not object to having a fire hydrant on the site. He pointed
out that the units will be two-story and will be set up for young
adults, as they are hoping to keep the cost within the affordable
housing category. He spoke to the subject of the streets, explaining
hat he had spoken with Mr. Nance and Linda Graves and they had dis-
cussed how the Olive Heights area looks now and what the future will
be i n that area. He is not objecting to curbs and gutters, but
Orange has an opportunity at this time to preserve the character of
a particular area. Therefore, he was suggesting a few modifications
o a couple of the conditions.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Three
Concerning Condition #9, he recommended that Ocean View be improved
with rol 1 ed curb being placed 20 feet from the centerline and with
no sidewalk in the parkway. That sewer facilities be installed to
City of Orange standards ,
He explained that the office building on the opposite side of the
street has rolled curbing and it is thought that this could be a
way to gradually do without a curb further up the street.
Mr, Quist also suggested that Condition #2 of the Engineer's Plan
Check Sheet read as follows:
Dedi cate and construct Ocean View Avenue to mo~di fi ed City
standards with a rolled curb 20 feet from the centerline
and no .sidewalk in the parkway,
He then went on to explain why he thought these conditions should
be modified as suggested. He pointed out that there are two old
buildings on this property which will be removed when they start to
build. He also pointed out the beautiful trees which are in this
area and which he intends to keep.
Chairman Mickelson pointed out the property which has been improved
next to this proposed project, stating that the Commission had left
the condi ti ons more open than Mr. Quist had suggested, stati ng that
the improvements be constructed subject to the approval of the
Director of Public Works . Mr. Quist was i n agreement with the condi -
ti on being worded i n thi s manner, He explained that he had viewed
this project from an engineering standpoint and pointed out that the
drainage further up the street turns a corner. Therefore, we are
talking about a very minor amount of drainage coming across this
property.
Richard Wurth, 8571 Ocean View, Olive, addressed the Commission,
wondering what the price of these uni is would be.
Richard Aldrich, 8701 S. Palm, Olive, addressed the Commission,
stating that the residents of that area are not here in opposition
to this application. However, they are only concerned about standard
bui 1 di ng codes being adopted wi thout keepi ng the rural atmosphere.
They are primarily concerned with keeping the atmosphere which is
now there.
Linda Graves, 8582 Palm, Olive, addressed the Commission, stati ng that
she would like to see the City Engineer consider Olive Heights as a
whole. They would like to see someone who is qualified look at the
hill as a whole. There are a lot of individual problems on Olive
Hill and this needs to be looked at as an entire area.
Commissioner Coontz asked if this was expressed to the City Council
and Mrs. Graves replied that they have not been before the Council ,
However, the City Council has considered their petition and agreed to
wait on those improvements. They have had no conversation with Staff,
as they were waiting until after their next neighborhood meeting which
was supposed to have been held this week. They would be happy to get
together with members of the Staff.
At this time Commissioner Master arrived at the Commission meeting.
Gary Johnson then explained that the petition was considered and the
.neighborhood concerns were reviewed. Council has asked that the Staff
work to the end of establishing some standards in that area which would
be compati bl e with the residents' desire, plus recognizing that i n the
future the City may take over portions of the area as development such
as this occurs. There are divergent types of development occurring
and Council would like Staff to come up with answers to the problems
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Four
there. He explained that a rolled curb gives a middle range as far
as standards are concerned. They will be trying to work on proposals
i n the comi ng months , but they cannot just turn off all development
going on i n that area at this time. The al ternati ve should be 1 eft
open instead of 1 ocki ng ourselves i n to any one type of standard.
Chairman Mickelson asked Mr, Johnson if they had been in contact with
any HUD representatives and Mr, Johnson replied that they had. The
approach at this time i s that the County i s going to do a s tudy to
see what development standards will be maintained in the County.
The City of Orange would not be a party to any of these decisions.
This creates problems for the City. This is why they have recommended
.that a standard be worked up for that area, Hopefully, it will be
compatible with the HCD study.
Commissioner Coontz asked about any communication with that group.
The answer was that there is no communi cation at this time, but they
hope to have communication in the future, as they develop their
standards.
Chairman Mickelson pointed out that the question in regard to this
application is whether there will be a modification to the regular
standards now i n effect. He expl ai ned that this had been done i n the
last action for the Olive Heights area.
Mr. Johnson felt that this particular location is a little different
than the one on Palm. He pointed out that Ocean View is one of the
main entrances to the park and residents have voiced their concern
over this fact. This means there wi 11 be people parki ng on that street
in an overflow situation. There is a need to continue to accommodate
the problems in this area.
Sally Wurth, 8571 Ocean View Avenue, Olive, commented on the park,
stating that the City put this park in and she is not happy about the
residents having to accommodate the parki ng for the park when the Ci ty
should have planned for this, If adequate parking had been provided
there would be no problem at this time. Residents should not have to
pay for poor planning.
Fred Ramer, 3042 Sherry, Orange, addressed the Commission, stati ng
that he owns property just to the north of the proposed project. He
wondered how far the uni is would be from the property 1 i ne and what
type of fencing is proposed,
Mr. Soo-Hoo explained that the closest unit would be 12 feet from the
north property line. The project is conditioned for uniform fencing
with the area. There is no requirement for a cement block wall.
Mr. Ramer stated that he would like to see the Commission consider a
block wall on the north property line.
Mr. Quist again addressed the Commission, answering questions brought
up by the residents, With regard to the price range of the units, he
explained that they plan to keep the prices as low as possible. How-
ever, right now they are looking at around $100,000. With regard to
fencing, he pointed out that along the south property 1 i ne there i s
an existing block wall fence. There is a proposed development going
i n adjacent to this property di rectly to the west, but he has not
tal ked to those developers as yet and does not know what type of
fencing they would be proposing. However, they will certainly take
that into consideration. They would want to put in something that is
consistent with the overal 1 development i n the surrounding area .
Commissioner Vasquez asked what kind of windows will look out over
the residences to the north of the development, since these are to
be two-story units. Mr. Quist answered that they are not planning to
have much view to the north , The bedrooms are all facing the south
and with the plans the way they are at this point, they will not be
disturbing anyone's privacy to the north. He explained, showing on
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Five
-the plans, what type of windows will be on the north side of
the units.
There being no one else to speak for or against this application,
the Chairman closed the public hearing.
Moved by Commissioner Coontz, seconded by Commissioner Hart, to
accept the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file
Negative Declaration 732.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
NOES : Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Coontz, to
recommend approval of Pre-Zone Change 955.
Commissioner Master asked if the City Council had given Staff
directions for setting up standards for this area. He stated that
he was sensitive to the residents' comments i n this regard and woul d
like to set up a condition in this matter.
Chairman Mickelson stated that he sees both the Commission and the
Council as being sensitive to the desires of the Olive residents.
He did not see the HUD people communi cati ng with the City Staff with
regard to s etti ng up standards i n this area , Therefore, h e suggested
th at a meeti ng be set up between the Staff and HUD, i n order to find
out what is being planned, It was pointed out that there have been
two different recommendations made by Council at different times.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Master, Vaszuez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Master, to
recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit 1152 and Tentative
Tract 11636, subject to the conditions as outlined in the Staff
Report and the condi tions contained i n the Engineer's Plan Check
Sheet, with the addition of a condition providing for a deviation
from the established curb and gutter standards to accommodate the
present rural nature of that area, stating that the area be improved
but not limited to sidewalks, curbs and gutters and sewer facilities
to meet the City of Orange standards, with the posting of a bond
acceptable at this time.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
NOES : Commi ss i o Hers none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CP.RRIED
Chairman Mickelson thought that Commissioner Coontz' suggestion of
proposing that a meeti ng be set up with the Ci ty Manager to ask that
the City of Orange move forward to get our Staff and the County Staff
moving forward to the same needs be accepted.
Commissioner Hart brought out an article which had been published
in the Register, stating that Orange was acting like an octopus,
taking in the Olive area. Commissioner Hart stated that he took
exception to this statement, since he feels that the City's actions
are only at the request of Olive residents .
Chairman Mickelson felt that there has been some misunderstanding
regarding some prior meetings of the residents at an earlier time.
Commissioner Hart wanted it to be public knowledge that the request
for a study has come from the residents in Olive Heights.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Six
Chairman Mickelson stated that he would contact the City Manager
and get some feedback in this matter. The Commissioners agreed
that this should be done.
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1153 - COUSIN CHARLIE'S RIBS-N-CHICKEN:
Request to allow a restaurant in the M-1 zone on the north side of
Katella Avenue, west of Glass ell Street. (Note: This project is
categorically exempt from Environmental Review.)
Stan Soo-Hoo presented this application, stating that this is a
request fora conditional use permit to allow a restaurant in the
M-1 zone. The property contains 1.58 acres and is located on the
north side of Katella Avenue, 235 feet west of Glass ell Street.
It contains an industrial building which houses a number of commercial
uses in the M-1 zone.
Mr. Soo-Hoo explained that the applicant proposes to operate the
restaurant wi thi n a 1 ,932 square foot unit of a 24,003 square foot
industrial building. Sixty off-street parking spaces were approved
at the time the site was developed. Conditional Use Permit 746 was
granted on December 15, 1975 which permitted retail use of 50% of
the property based on provided parking.
Mr. Soo-Hoo pointed out that based upon Staff survey, al l uses on the
site are retail with the exception of the computer programming school
In addition, it appears that, though the carpet store appeals to re-
tail traffic, it is primarily an industrial use. Nevertheless, it is
obvious that the property is used primarily for retail purposes and
that much more than 50% is used for this purpose. Other uses in the
complex include stores which do business in picture frames, CB and
auto stores, off-road equipment, stationery, tools, motorcycle
accessories and clothing.
Mr. Soo-Hoo also pointed out that scaling a very schematic diagram of
the floor layout; Staff calculates that, wi th the propose-d` restaurant,
the parking requirement for the complex would be approximately 92
spaces (60 spaces are presently provided) broken down as follows:
Carpet store - 7 spaces
Restaurant - 19 spaces
Balance of complex - 66 spaces
The Staff has reviewed the proposal and i ndi Gated that the parki ng lot
appears to be heavily used and questioned the availability of spaces
for this proposed use. Also discussed was the potential for illegal
signing since the building is located away from the street.
Staff foresees a number of potential problems with this proposal:
1 . I t exacerbates the violation of a condition of Conditional
Use Permi t 746, which 1 imi is retai 1 use of the site to 50%
by not only adding an additional non-industrial use to the
site, but by proposing one which is a higher traffic
generator (retail stores require parking at a ratio of
1 space per 200 sq. ft. of floor area, while restaurants
require 1 space per 100 sq. ft.) .
2. Hours of operation of the restaurant are simul taneous with that
of the balance of the complex, therefore parking demand would
not be off-setting.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Seven
3. Because of the present high rate of usage of parki ng
facilities at this location, parking may occur on the
street and in the driveway areas abutting the restaurant.
I t i s noted that the street and driveways are closer
than most parking stalls.
4. The Ci ty Traffic Engineer states that any attempt to
"reserve" parki ng spaces for a specifi c use typi cally
does not work . And, i n any case, i s unenforceabl e
by the City.
5. Because of the need for exposure for this type of use
and particularly because of its rather obscure location,
Staff foresees problems relating to ilregal signing in
an effort to gain i ncreased exposure to Katel l a Avenue.
For .these reasons, Staff recommends denial of Conditional Use
Permit 1153. However, should the Planning Commission feel that
the proposal warrants approval, approval should be granted subject
to the three condi tions set forth i n the Staff Report.
Commissioner Coontz wondered, other than policing the properties
for i 11 egal signage, has the City done any thing about enforcing the
original condition of 50 % industrial / 50 % ret~a~l usage?
Mr. Soo-Hoo replied that this is very difficult to enforce and re-
direct. He recalled that this was an experimental area.
Commissioner Hart referred to the cover letter which came with the
Staff Report which was not mentioned in the presentation. He asked
for a briefing on the chain of circumstances in this regard.
Mr. Soo-Hoo explained that the Staff has recently met wi th the
applicant to explain its negati ve position and recommendation on
this application. The applicant's response was that, since he re-
cei ved permi is from the Bui 1 di ng & Safety Division for interior
modifications (walls, electrical, etc.) to the unit, he had completed
he improvements necessary to convert the unit i nto a restaurant.
Because of this, he felt that the City is obligated to approve the
conditional use permit.
In reviewing the matter with the Building & Safety Division it was
determined that, because the permit request was for interior work
only, it was treated as a very routine plan check and the nature of
the use was never questioned. However, it was learned that the
building plans were approved on September 1, 1981 and on September 2,
1981 the applicant submitted his application package for this condi -
ti oval use permit (to allow the restaurant) with the knowl edge that
the public hearing was scheduled for October 5. Staff feels that it
is cl ear that any improvements to the bui 1 di ng were made at the sol e
risk of the applicant, since i t was obvious that a determi na ti on was
not forthcoming on the acceptability of the restaurant until October 5.
Mr. Soo-Hoo pointed out that the applicant also has stated that it was
his impression that the conditional use permit was only for the
serving of alcoholic beverages; however, the Assistant Planner who
accepted the application distinctly recalls that the applicant was
told that the application was for a restaurant and that the applicant
acknowledged this and further asked if a separate conditional use
permi t-was needed i f alcohol is beverages were to be sold.
~ Mr. Soo-Hoo stated, in summary, that the Staff does not believe that
the applicant has been misinformed or misled in this. case to cause
him to believe that the restaurant use had been approved. 'Obviously
the building permits had been issued to permit interior modifications
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Ei gh t
to the unit; however, Staff is satisfied that, at the same time,
the conditional use permit requirement was explained also. The
possibility exists that the applicant misunderstood the explanation,
but the Staff cannto support the contention that this or the fact
that substantial improvements have been made, obligates the Planning
Commission to approve this application.
Commissioner Hart wondered i f the plan check was compl eted one day
and the application was filed the next day, would any work be done
i n that time? The reply was i n the negative.
Commissioner Coontz pointed out that malice aforethought could not
be proved i n a matter such as this .
Commissioner Master felt that one of the missing el ements would be
the original applicant, who first came forward and asked for per-
mission to use 50% of this area for retail use.
Commissioner Coontz pointed out that these buildings have been there
since 1976 and Staff has done nothing to enforce the decisions of
the Commission made at that time.
Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing.
Marcus Merchasin, 6301 Ownesmouth Avenue, Suite 1000, Woodland Hills,
attorney for the applicant, addressed the Commission i n favor of this
application. He stated that the applicant was led to believe that
his procedure was a reasonable one. He has spent $100,000 on the
project and now sees bankruptv~~ coming up. Mr. Merchasin gave copies
of photographs of the location to the Commissioners.
Commissioner Master asked if Mr. Merchasin would comment on the
applicant's understanding with the owner of the property. Mr.
Merchasin explained that further on in his presentation, he and/or
the applicant would comment i n this direction.
Commissioner Master explained that the owner of the property has no
authority to make building decisions. The applicant had to come to
the Staff and the Commission for permission to build his project.
Mr. Merchasin proceeded to hand out to the Commission a list of the
tenants, plus their parking spaces in the buildings in question. He
also gave the Commi ssi oners a map of the 1 ocati on, together wi th a copy
of plans which have the seal of approval of the Building Department of
Orange. He also gave out a copy of the plans approved by the Orange
County Health Department. He then went on to explain that when Mr.
Woodward originally approached the Ci ty of Ornage to find out i f he
could open a restaurant in this area he was told that he would have
to go to the Heal th Department, etc . to seek approva 1 . H e pointed
out that i n the two buil di ngs i n questi on, instead of i ndustrial
there are mostly commercial uses here. This appears to be a strip
type of mall rather than an industrial area.
Mr. Merchasin then explai ned that Mr. Woodward went to the County of
Orange to the Health Department and his project was approved. He
thereupon went to the City of Orange for approval and obtained same.
He was left with the impression that if he had to make application
to the Commission it was already approved by Staff. Later the
assertion that he was acti ng unreasonably, that he should have known
that those who had approved of his plans had no authority would
probably be stretching a point. Mr. Merchasin pointed out that Mr.
Woodward is a lay person, he is not an attorney and not a man ex-
peri enced i n b ui 1 di ng this type of thing . H e went to the appropriate
authorities to receive the appropriate permission and received what
he thought to be the proper guidance.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Nine
Mr. Merchasin felt that the two reasons presented by the Staff
regarding parking and signage problems are problems which can be
overcome. He pointed out photographs which had been taken on
Saturday afternoon, showing parking areas and the kind of traffic
in that area. He explained that people come in and out of this
type of restaurant during lunch and dinner peaks and then taper off
in the evening. The restaurant would be open from 11 a.m. to 9 p.m.
This would avoid any problems with personnel from other stores when
they come to work in the morning. In the evening, around the dinner
hour, other stores would be closed. This shows that parking would not
be as critical as suggested by the Staff. He pointed out that of the
parking spaces at that location, counting both buildings, instead of
the 130 spaces originally referred to there are 152. This is 6.9
spaces per business. Mr. Merchasin also pointed out what had not been
commented upon earlier, that there are 14 spaces for owners and em-
ployees to park their vehicles in the rear of the buildings. This
would greatly assist the building in getting to the proper parking
spaces. Since each of these businesses has been given a business
1 i cense at some point i n time, the City Staff must be aware of these
businesses i n the area .
Mr. Merchasin explained that there is only one other business that
relates to food and that is a donut shop. He assumed that this type
of establishment does not serve lunch or dinner. Therefore, a
restaurant in this area would be good for generating bank and other
businesses in the nearby area. Since they could walk to the restaurant
this would mitigate the parking problem also. He pointed out that the
building is just a bit too large for a chicken store. Bost franchises
tailor the building to the use. Since this is a single owner situation
and since the area is too large, the applicant does not need as large
a parking space since some of this space is wasted. Unlike other
franchise locations, this i s i n an industrial area and there wil 1 be
much walk-in trade. He also pointed out that on Saturday the bank
parking 1 of i s not used and they are currently discussing with th e
bank manager the possibil ity of using the bank parki ng lot on the
weekends. The walk-in type of situation would be a benefit to the
community. There is also ample room next to the building for six
additional parking spaces next to the chicken stand.
Commissioner Coontz asked why the photographs had been given to the
Commission. She pointed out that these photographs had been taken on
Saturday when the area is empty. However, during the week there is an
overflow here which spills over onto Glassell, which presents a
dangerous situation. She didn't feel that these photographs were
indicative of what the normal traffic pattern is during the week.
Commissioner Hart pointed out that the chart shows that 40% of the
businesses are closed on Saturday. Therefore, this is not indicative
of the regular pattern of parking. He also pointed out that the
applicant had his permits signed off on September 1st and came back
to the City for a conditional use permit on September 2nd. Therefore,
he could not have made these improvements i n one day.
Mr. Merchasin commented that these improvements had been worked on
right along. These improvements had been inspected and approved as
time has gone on. Mr. Woodward had been informed that if he would
apply that since everything else had been approved, the assumption
was there that the CUP would be approved also. He didn't realize
how serious the CUP was or that there was a possibility that he
would not get it. When he saw the commercial use to which these
buildings have been put, he assumed that his use was not out of con-
text wi th what he saw. He was given the impression that the variance
was merely a formality.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Ten
Commissioner Vasquez asked how many people would be accommodated
inside of this restaurant. Mr. Merchasin replied that it would
accommodate a maximum of 35.
Commissioner Master commented that 50% of the facility was for other
than industrial and pointed out that the Commission is not anti-
business. However, various applicants have come into some of the
facilities which were originally shown for light industrial applica-
tions. Staff has gone on record as being against too much commercial
in these industrial areas because of the parking problem. This
property was originally approved based on the fact that no more than
50% would be commercial. He commended Staff for bringing these
problems to the attention of the Commission. He stated that he is
in empathy with business, but there are some constraints which must
be placed in these areas.
Chairman Mickelson questioned seating 35 people in this restaurant.
He wondered if there were provisions for takeout orders. The answer
was that the primary function of the reataurant is to be a takeout
restaurant. The primary goal is not for sit down eati ng, but for
take out.
Commissioner Hart asked if the tenants were notified about this public
hearing. He was told that the tenants were not notified of the public
hearing, since they were not owners of the building.
Win Austin, one of the owners of the buildings in question, addressed
the Commission, stati ng that his son wi 11 be building this restaurant.
The tenants have been told about this and are delighted because they
wi 11 be able to wal k over to eat.
Commissioner Coontz recognized that this problem is accumulative.
However, we are criticizing th i s application. She wished to approve
the application with a condition to flag this so that from now on, as
businesses leave, all new uses must fall into the industrial category.
She pointed out that in a sense we are penalizing this applicant for
a number of mistakes made earlier.
Commissioner Hart pointed out that Staff felt that the applicant had
more knowledge of the ramifications than he says he had. He felt that
there area number of misunderstandings here. Inasmuch as the 50%
rule was not enforced, he did not see how i t could be enforced now .
Commissioner Master was concerned as to how this could be implemented.
There was discussion among the Commissioners in this regard. Com-
missioner Master wondered how this would be monitored. It was suggested
that the Business License Department could monitor this. A license
could be refused when they go over 50% commercial.
Chairman Mickelson asked Staff if 50% commercial was a specific con-
dition for both buildings. Staff replied affirmatively. Commissioner
Master asked Mr. Minshew whether Staff has this authority and Mr.
h1i nshew replied that the Planning Commission has this authori ty and
coul d delegate authority to Staff. Commissioner Master asked for
Mr. Murphy's comments in this regard. Mr. Murphy answered that Staff
will do what they can to monitor this, although it is very difficult
to do this through the Business License Division. However, they will
try to adhere to these conditions as best they can.
Mr. Minshew pointed out that the property owner has a duty to police
these buildings as to the 50% commercial occupancy. This was originally
a condi tion in the conditional use permit. It is the Staff's duty to
point out to the owner that he is not living up to the conditions.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Eleven
Chairman Mickelson asked how long P1r. Austin had owned this property
and was told since 1975. However, Mr. Austin stated that h e was
unaware of the 50% commercial since they had purchased from Dunn
Properties.
Mr. Vasquez commented that he i s di sturbed with regard to the parking
situation, that there would be a dependency on a neighboring parking
lot or parking alongside of the building. He thought that this type
of thinking should be discouraged.
Mr. Austin explained that they do not plan to depend upon this type
of parking. The bank manager has told him that he has observed on
several occasions where people have parked in their parking lot and
gone over to the bank.
Commissioner Hart thought that perhaps conditions could be placed as
deed restrictions on the property so that future owners will know
what the restric tions are on a particular piece of property.
~. Moved by Commissioner Coontz, seconded by Commissioner Hart, to
approve Conditional Use Permit 1153, subject to the conditions as
set forth i n the Staff Report, plus the third condition as suggested
by Staff that the plans be approved by the Crime Prevention co-
ordi nator of the Police Department as being i n conformance with the
bui 1 di ng security ordinance (7-79) ; and the addition of Condition #4
that the Planning Staff and the Licensing Division work together on
flagging these properties so that the original conditions of 50%
industrial/50% commercial combination will at some later date be
achieved through attrition.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioner Mickelson
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
REVISED TENTATIVE TRACT 11486 - LINDQUIST:
Applicant addressed the Commission, stating that his attorney had not
yet arrived and he would therefore appreciate this item being placed
at the end of the agenda.
Lillian Breckenfeld, 2344 Mills Drive, Orange, addressed the Com-
mission, in opposition to this delay, stating that she felt that
i t is only fai r to the homeowners that thi s should proceed.
Chairman Mickelson asked how many in the audience were here for this
item. Several hands were raised.
John Goul d, 1024 E. Washington, Orange, addressed the Commission,
speaking to Item #4 on the agenda, and stating that there were many
elderly people and persons who must work in the morning who were
attending this meeting with regard to Item #4, and they would like
to see the meeting expedited.
Commissioner Coontz stated that it is not the policy of the Commission
to hear an item when the applicant is not present.
The Commission decided to continue Item #3 to the end of the agenda.
ZONE CHANGE 956, VARIANCE 1660, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1154,
TENTATIVE TRACT 11646 - ORANGE CITY GROUP:
Request to change zoning from RD-6 to RM-7 and consideration of a
17-unit Planned Unit Development with tandem parking on the south
side of Almond Street, east of Maplewood Street. (Note: Negative
Declaration 734 has been prepared in lieu of an Environmental Impact
Report.)
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twelve
Jere Murphy presented thi s application to the Commission, stati ng
that the applicant requests rezoning from the RD-6 zone to RM-7
.zone; a variance to permit use of tandem parking to serve as re-
quired spaces; and a conditional use permit and tentative tract to
permit creation of 17 condominium units. The property contains 1.06
acres of land and is located on the south side of Almond Street,
159 feet east of Maplewood. The property formerly contai ned a si ngl e
family residence but is now vacant. It is zoned RD-6. The density
proposed is 16.04 dw/ac. with off-street parking of 17 enclosed spaces,
17 tandem spaces and 6 open, for a total of 40 parking spaces (assuming
that the Planning Commission accepts tandem spaces). This would break
down to 2.35 spaces/unit and a coverage on the property of 60%. The
development standards fora planned unit development in the RM-7 zone
are 16.33 dw/ac. with 38 (2.25/unit) off-street parking spaces, with
no tandem spaces permitted.
Mr. Murphy explained that the applicant proposes two-story units with
one garage space attached to it, as well as an open space tandem to
it. Units are arranged linearly along the west and east property
1 i ne with a driveway dividing th em, extending from Almond Avenue
through to Washington Avenue. The area is designated low density
(2-6 dw/ac . ) residential a nd medium density (6-15 dw/ac . ) residential
on the General Plan.
The Staff has reviewed the proposal and listed a number of reservations
regarding it. Concerns include:
a. The area as a whole is exclusively zoned R-1-6 and RD-6 with
much of the latter also limited to single story development by
the "A" suffix zoning. It was felt, therefore, that the appl i-
cant's request for RM-7 zoning constitutes a spot zone which is
not justifiable.
b , The applicant's request to allow 2-s tory development i s not com-
patible with surrounding residential development which is
exclusively single story .
c. Tandem parking as proposed would establish a precedent which could
lead to future projects in the City proposing similar designs.
In this case, residents not using garages (reserving them for
storage for example) could create a parking overflow which could
lead to street parking congestion on Almond Avenue and Washington
Avenue. In addition, parking in the driveway could occur due
to the anticipated scarcity, which could lead to circulation
problems on-site.
d. Other comments included the poor distribution of guest parking,
the preference for having the north ern driveway 1 i ne up with
Water Street, the lack of required trash enclosures, and the
need for two-way circulation on the southerly driveway.
It is recommended that the findings of the Environmental Review
Board to file Negative Declaration 734 be accepted.
Staff feels that the existing zoning of RD-6 is proper for this site
since surroundi ng zoning is excl usively R-1-6 and RD-6 and si ngl e
story. It is not felt that a 2-story development built to maximum
RM-7 density standards is compatible.
In addition, Staff does not view tandem parking as an adequate
al ternati ve to the parking requi rement. It i s anticipated that,
rather than to endure the inconvenience of such a parking arrangement
and/or to use the garage for storage purposes, future residents will
elect to use the streets for parking, thereby congesti ng a relatively
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Thirteen
low density residential neighborhood with parking from this project.
Further, the applicant has not provided any justification in the
form of special circumstances or hardships which apply to this
property which may be used to grant this variation from the code
when other developers of similarly zoned properties must adhere to
i t.
Mr. Murphy explained that though it is not specifically stated, it is
apparent that the applicant feels that their proposal to provide housing
i n this era of shortages of moderately priced housing justifies thi s
proposal . However, Staff feels strongly that i t would be counter-
productive to allow such a project at the expense of an existing low
density area where the zoning is solely R-1-6 and RD-6.
Staff strongly recommends denial of this project for four reasons:
1 . That the proposed zoni ng consti tutes a "spot zone".
2. That the proposal is not compatible with surrounding land
use or zoning.
3. That the applicant has not demonstrated that special
circumstances apply in this case which would justify
a variance.
4. That approval of this project could result in parking
congestion on Almond and Washington Avenue.
Chairman Mickelson asked for the General Plan designation in this
area and was told i t was 1 ow to medi um density . When Chairman
Mickelson asked how this would be applied, Mr. Murphy replied that
the General Plan would probably accommodate the density as it is
proposed, and that is therefore not the question in this case.
Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing.
Ron Davis, the applicant, addressed the Commission in favor of this
application. He stated that they have studied the area very carefully
and do not understand the opposition to this project. Even though
the area is zoned R-Residential, there are other uses in that area.
Much of the parki ng problem is created by the people who work i n the
area, not by the people who live there. He explained that the con-
figuration of the lot is such that they feel it will accommodate a
17-unit development. Density does not seem to be the real issue,
if he understands the Staff Report correctly. The opposition appears
to be the placing of the units on the 1 ot, the aspect of spot zoning,
and the incompatible use to surrounding areas. Mr. Davis pointed out
that this is a rental area, so he does not see why this project
would be incompatible. He also pointed out that there i s a scarci ty
of land in this area and they feel if this project is approved they
can offer a home that people in this area can afford.
He spoke to the concern about surroundi ng one-story residences. He
thought that they can attend to this by a privacy wall and good
landscaping.
Mr. Davis stated that they would like clarification on the General
Plan and would like a zone change fora 17-unit project. Without
17 units the project is not profitable for them to do.
Commissioner Hart pointed out that the cost of land is an economical
issue and the Commission is not deciding this on the basis of
,~ economi cs .
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Fourteen
Jack Nanigian, 1039 E. Washington, Orange, addressed the Commission
in opposition to this application, stating that he was speaking on
behal f of many people i n the audience who are adamantly opposed to
this proposal. He spoke to several areas in which they are opposed.
1 . The high density nature of this development, neighboring residents
feel, would create an overcrowding in that area. It was originally
designed for lower density. Some of the problems resulting from
this high density would create friction in life styles.
2. Traffic flow - the proposal i ndicates that the alley or access
to garages is one-way, entering from Almond on the north, pro-
ceeding south to a right hand turn onto Washington. This
would apparently require purchase of some property from the
church because this would require an easement. This would be a
one-way arrangement and would put an increase of traffic onto
Washing to n, creati ng problems for the residents i n that area.
3. Increase i n traffi c flow would present greater danger to elderly
people living in the area and school children going to school
• in the area.
Mr. Nanigian pointed out that he has been a resident there for nine
years and night time parking is the problem, not the day time parking.
He stated that he had circulated a petition and had obtained 58
signatures. This petition was submitted to the Commission. This
petition is in opposition to the proposed project. He pointed out
that there are no two-story buildings anywhere in the immediate area.
He saw this as a large problem. This is a peaceful neighborhood, with
quite a few elderly people living here. He did not see these units as
adding to the peaceful atmosphere.
Chairman Mickelson pointed out that the assumption that this would be
a one-way drive is incorrect. There is room for this to be a two-way
street. With regard to the possibility of purchasing property from
the church, Chairman Mickelson saw this property as having room enough
to have 16 foot access on a private property for easement, without
the purchase of property elsewhere.
Rev. Charles Smith, Pastor of the Orange Church of the Nazarene, the
church which abuts the property in question, addressed the Commission,
explaining that the church is not necessarily against this project,
but th ey are concerned about some of the i ssues . He pointed out that
the middle line of the street is not the property line. It was his
understanding that there is a city easement along the property line.
Therefore, he would like clarification on this item. He stated that
it is also his understanding that there will be only five guest
parking spaces. Their church has a pre-school which is in session
every day and he was concerned as to how high the wall would be and if
there is parking at the end near the church he could foresee problems.
They would like clarification on these issues.
Chairman Mickelson explained that the plan shows a 10-foot storm drain
easement along the north boundary line, with a six-foot block wall
along the south, east and west boundari es.
Flo Kinder, 1342 E. Hickory Lane, Orange, addressed the Commission in
opposition to this application. She stated that she and her husband
own a duplex at the corner of Maplewood and Washington. They are
not residents there, but they are owners who take an interest i n
their property. Therefore, they are concerned about the noise factor
with this project. There is no room for an easement between this
~, property and the church property. She pointed out that the duplexes
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Fifteen
have reciprocal agreements in their driveways. Therefore, people do
use the street to park. She was a parking problem here. She pointed
out that construction of any buildings next to their property will
have to allow for a five foot easement for Southern California Edison
Company, since they are carrying the burden right now of the whol e
10 foot easement required. There are irrigation pipes presently
located all along the westerly boundary. She handed a copy of a
letter to the Commission, written from her and her husband.
John Gould, 1024 E. Washington, Orange, addressed the Commission in
opposition to this application, stati ng that no one can deny that
there is a parking problem. During the evening there is little area
for parking and during the day the people working in that area take
up most of the parking spaces.
W.P. Rogers, 234 S. Maplewood, Orange, addressed the Commission in
opposition to this application, and asked for clarification of
Negative Declaration 732.
Ch airman Mickel son explained what a Negati ve Decl aration i s and what
issues it speaks to. Mr. Rogers wondered if noise is included in an
environmental study and was told that it was. He explained that he
felt that noise will be a problem. The area is too small for such a
small, tight project. There will be a garage for each apartment,
but this will probably be used for storage and the people will park
around the neighborhood. He pointed out that it was described that
the project would open out onto Washington. However, Maplewood wasn't
mentioned. He explained that traffic will swing out onto Maplewood and
create more traffic there. He thought that tandem parking was a new
thing and should not be allowed.
Mr. Rogers asked if there will be a wall separating this project from
other areas. He was told that there will be a wall .
He thought that this will be in conflict with the General Plan.
Ernestine Ransome, a property owner on Maplewood, Orange, addressed
the Commission in opposition to this application, wondering if this
is setting a precedent. She wondered if it is along range plan to
relocate the Fire Department and will that property some day be open
for development.
Chairman Mickelson explained that this is a county facility and he
did not know of any plans to relocate it.
Gary Johnson reaffirmed this statement. It is open to conjecture as
to what will happen to the corporation yard, which is located there.
Commissioner h1aster stated that he had recently read in the newspaper
that this property was not being used to its highest and best use
and it would be put up fora better use of the property.
Commissioner Vasquez stated that the county is currently undertaking
a long term study regarding the County Fire Department and its
location.
Dick Kinder, 1342 E. Hickory Lane, Orange, co-owner of the property
at Washington and Maplewood, addressed the Commission in opposition
to this project. He pointed out that the property has several fruit
trees which were cut down sometime ago. For a long time they called
regarding the brush and debris from these trees which was up against
the fence. Some of this has finally been removed, but there is
still quite a bit of debris, which is a fire hazard.
ti
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Sixteen
Mr. Ninigian asked if there was a large water aqua duct under this
property and, if so, is it feasible to place buildings on property
such as this and have it be safe.
Mr. Johnson replied that the water line which was there has been
utilized as a storm drain immediately adjacent to the west boundary.
There wi 11 be no structure bui 1 t over that easement.
Mr. Gould asked if the exit will pass over the easement for the
storm drain. Mr. Johnson explained that they will have to put a
reinforced slab over that storm drain. This has been done in other
areas .
Ms. Ransome asked if these buildings will be purchased or rented.
Chairman Mickelson replied that it is his understanding that they
will be for sale.
Mr. Lansing, 1102 E. Washington, Orange, addressed the Commission in
opposition to this application. He pointed out that where the access
is there is a 12 foot opening. However, he could not find out who
owned the property. There is about three or four feet where they
will have to come across someone else's property. This eliminates
3 or 4 par king spaces i n that area .
Mr. Davis again addressed the Commission in rebuttal. He answered
the statement that there are no two-story buildings within a five
block radius. by stating that he has driven around the area and
there are two-story dwellings in the immediate area. He explained
that they are aware of the easements and they know about the parking
problems that could be potentially created. This can be restricted
in their CC&R's. They can even state no parking on Almond or
Washington. He pointed out that they wish to improve this piece of
property and increase the tax base of the city. The General Plan
states that thi s many units can be placed on thi s property. Re the
tandem parking issue - there is nothing in the city ordinance that says
this is illegal. He explained that the storm drain problem will be
dealt with.
Mr. Davis pointed out that they are talking about 34 cars in this
project. They will not be of significant impact in that area.
There being no one else to speak for or against this application, the
Chairman closed the public hearing,
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Master, to accept
the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file Negative
Declaration 734.
Commissioner Coontz questioned the no answer with regard to traffic
impact in the Negative Declaration. Commissioner Hart pointed out
that there was no indication on the plan that Washington will be used.
Chairman Mickelson felt that the problem is that it is difficult to
traverse in the area when this project is built. It should not have
access to Washington unless it is emergency only. Almond is enough to
handle this property. He could only support the Negative Declaration
if there is a finding that there be only access on Washington of a
limited nature. Commissioner Hart and Commissioner Master accepted
this modification to the motion.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Seventeen
There being some troubl e with the audience not being able to hear
the Commissioners at all times, Commissioner Coontz asked that
Staff look into the PA system to see if there was a problem.
Commissioner Coontz asked for the history of the "A" designation
and was told that it is a result of the old downtown suffix.
The area was built under the RD-6 district.
Moved by Commissioner Coontz, seconded by Commissioner Hart, to
recommend denial of Zone Change 956, for the reason that the pro-
posal is not compatible with surrounding land use or zoning and that
the "A" suffix which is prevalent in the surrounding area is of
historical significance and was not placed on the property back to
the Staff, but came with the original zone.
Commissioner Master stated that he was in support of the motion but
would like more clarification with regard to other two-story buildings
in the area. Mr. Murphy explained that those areas referred to by
the applicant were not zoned through the "A" suffix. They are located
i n the Palmyra area outside of thi s zoning that surrounds thi s
property. He pointed out that there are places where the "A" suffix
is not prevalent.
Chairman Mickelson felt that there is a logical reason why the "A"
suffix stops at Water Street. This property is zoned RD-6, but not
RD-6A, Commissioner Hart pointed out that we are not discussing
two-story issues on the zone change.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioner Mickelson
ABSENT: Commissioners none P~10TION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Mickelson, seconded by Commissioner Hart, to
recommend denial of Variance 1660 for the reason that no findings
were made to substantiate tandem parking.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson,
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none
Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
MOTION CARRIED
~. Moved by Commissioner Mickelson, seconded by Commissioner Vasquez,
to recommend denial of Condi ti onal Use Permit 1154 and Tentati ve
Tract 11646, for the reason that the design of the project is not
compatibl e to the area or to the site.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Plaster, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
REVISED TENTATIVE TRACT 11486 - LINDOUIST
Request for reconsideration of modifications to a previously
approved mobile home subdivision located east of the Orange
Freeway and south of Almond Avenue. (Note: Revisions to Environ-
mental Impact Report 662 have been submitted and should be considered.)
Jere Murphy presented this application to the Commission, stating
that this property contains 4,109 acres of land located adjacent to
the east side of the Orange Freeway, south of Almond Avenue. It is
presently vacant and zoned R-1-6, RM-7 and C-1, The applicant pro-
poses to develop a senior citizens ownershi p mobile home park with
32 individually owned lots, with a density of 7.79 units/acre and
guest parking of 11 spaces. All interior streets are to be private.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 19 81
Page Eighteen
Mr. Murphy explained that Tentative Tract 11486 was originally
approved in June of 1981 for 33 mobile home lots. At the time,
however, primary access was proposed to Flower Street via an access
easement across the southerly portion of the Orange County Medical
Association property. Almond Avenue was proposed to provide emergency
access only, When the matter was heard by the City Council , a 1 egal
question arose regarding the availability of the easement for the
entire project. Approval was granted, subject to legal verification
of the easement. He pointed out that previous consi deration i ncl uded
a General Plan Amendment (to medium density residential), zone change
(to M-HO) , Condi tional Use Permit (to allow 1 ots without frontage on
a public street), and a variance (to allow a mobile home park on a
site containing 1 ess than 10 acres, for drives of 1 ess than 33 feet,
and to allow waiver of requirements fora recreation area, R.V.
parking, and a laundry facility), as well as the tentative tract.
Mr. Murphy explained that major changes proposed at this time include:
a. The movement of primary access to Almond Avenue.
b. The reduction of lots from 33 to 32.
c. Provision of R.U, parking
d. Provision of a recreation area and building.
e. Provision of a laundry facility.
f. The use of the access easement to Flower Street
for emergency use only. Gating would be i nstal 1 ed
to accomplish this.
The Staff has reviewed the proposal and feel s that the modification
to the access points is not desirable and poses a burden on the
residents of Almond Avenue. Specifically, Almond Avenue presently
serves 15 single family residences. Though it is joined to Mills
Drive (to the north) by an alley, it is apparent that this alley is
seldom used. Almond Avenue, therefore, functions similarly to a
cul-de-sac street. Primary access to this street could constitute
an intrusion into an established area which Staff feels should be
discouraged. A concern was also expressed regarding the adequacy
of the accessway onto the site from Almond Avenue and the applicant
was requested to prepare a detail drawing.
The Environmental Impact Report for this project was previously
certified. However, because of the circulation change brought about
by the modification of access points, the traffic and circulation
section was rewritten. He pointed out that the studies by the
Traffic Engineer, as well as an independent traffic engineer hired
by the City indicated that Almond Avenue could sustain the additional
number of vehicles . However, Staff feels that this would be the i ntro-
duction of foreign traffic into what is basically a cul-de-sac street
and, therefore, is inappropriate.
Staff has two major concerns regarding this proposal:
1. Moving primary access to Almond Avenue could have an adverse
effect on that street.
2. No verification has been received to demonstrate that the
proposed emergency access easement is indeed available for
such a purpose. The alternative of having a single access
is unacceptable from an emergency services standpoint.
The latter concern can probably
ditioning of approval. However,
proposal and must be accepted i
feels that the applicant should
primary access to Flower Street
acceptable location, rather tha
be adequately addressed with con-
the other is inherent with this
f thi s al ternative is chosen. Staff
be encouraged to pursue acquisition of
as previously approved, or at another
n to accept the present proposal.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Nineteen
Should the Planning Commission feel that the request is acceptable,
the conditions of the Engineer's Plan Check Sheet are recommended
with approval.
Commissioner Hart asked how i t was planned to gain access to Flower
Street as an emergency access if they cannot do it as a direct access.
Mr. Murphy explained that the City Council had asked this question
about primary access and added that condi ti on. It is uncl ear and
possibly can only be decided by the courts. The Planning Commission
has the prerogative to ask for clarification.
Chairman Mickelson opened the public hearing.
Donald Greek, 7767 Diane Drive, Orange, the applicant, addressed the
Commission in favor of this application. He stated that his original
proposal was for primary access on Almond and secondary access on
Flower. Staff asked for a change to primary access on Flower.
However, they do have an easement for access to Flower. The current
situation is that Orange County Medical Association has created a
cloud . They do not deny existence of an easement. They question how
much they can use it. As an emergency access, they are of the opinion
that they can use it as such until they get a court case. If they
get a zone change they can create a court case. The issue cannot be
settled until this case goes to court. If they do not have an approved
project, they cannot go to court.
Mr. Greek pointed out that the width of the easement is approximately
30 feet. The easement does exceed and they have the right to use i t,
but they cannot overburden it. Then the question is what is over-
burdeni ng? The court will have to decide how much is overburdeni ng.
It was brought out that the City Council approved this project with
the condi tion that they have proof that they can use the easement.
He explained that any title company will back them up on this. So it
must be resolved by the courts. In order to proceed with the project,
they are asking for a change in the Tentative Tract Map. When they
start construction the Orange County Medical Association might start
some court action, at which time it will be resolved.
Commissioner Hart felt that the Commission is being put i n a posi tion
to approve something they have no right to do.
Chai rman Mickel son felt that the case should be considered on its
merits from a land use standpoint only. The problem could be ad-
judicated in the courts and not here.
Mr. Greek stated that his traffic engineer was here tonight and would
answer any questions the Commission might have.
Commissioner Coontz stated that she could not tell from the report how
many units are moved in and out of the project onto Almond Avenue and
how often.
Commissioner Vasquez questioned with regard to Almond what purpose
there is for the street slanting to the middle, which he thought would
cause it to flood during a rain, causing people to use the outer edges
of the street. Mr. Johnson explained that this street was built around
the time of World War I I to the standards of that time, with the drai n
down the center. The City has not felt a need to reconstruct the street.
He was not aware of any problems created by the street as i t is .
Commissioner Vasquez thought that moving mobile homes into the park would
probably be best using Mills Street.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty
Mr. Greek stated that Almond Street, when it was originally built,
had 15 or 20 more homes on it. It handled more traffic then than
it will have if this project is built.
Woody Johnson, a resident of Orange, and a realtor involved in the
sale of this property, addressed the Commission on behalf of the
owner, Mr. Armstrong. He does not consider Almond as a cul-de-sac
because there is a connecting link between it and Mills Street.
H e sees this as a connecting street. If the easement being discussed
were a two-way street, then the connecting link between Almond and
Mi 11 s would be also a two-way street and be suitable for bringing
i n the mobile homes to the park. He felt that either of these streets
would be capable of diverting traffic from either one and minimizing
the traffic in the area. He referred to the 30 foot easement which
had been discussed, stating that the Orange County Medical Association
would be prohibited from building on this since it is an easement.
He questioned whether it would not be paved, inasmuch as there will
be a chaff n across that particular 30 feet prohibi ti ng traffi c from
going in and out. The Fire Department would have a key to the chain
placed across this area. It was explained to Mr. Johnson that this
would have to be an all-weather road and must be paved for fire trucks
to go across.
John Gilway, representing the Orange County Medical Association,
300 S. Flower, Orange, addressed the Commission in opposition to this
application. He spoke in response to the petition fora revision of
Tentative Tract 11486 and Environmental Impact Report 662, explaining
that the OCMA wished to reiterate a position of opposition. Their
major objection as presented at the May 12, 1981 Council hearing on
this subject were inadequacy of EIR 662 and easement restrictions on
the proposed primary access road, off Flower Street.
In addition, OCMA recognizes and supports the Staff's initial environ-
mental study of December 10, 1980, concluding that the project might
result in substantial air emissions or exposure of persons to locally
elevated levels of air pollution.
As regards noise, again OCMA supports the Staff's i ni tial findings
that the project might result in an increase in existing noise levels
and exposure of people to same.
It remains questi onabl e that the City can be assured that al l noise
attenuation standards will be enforced and more importantly, that age
restrictions on sales to the elderly be enforced.
Further, as regards traffic, Staff's initial study identified potential
increases in traffic volume and related hazards. OCMA again supports
this as a significant concern, and notably so as regards the safety
and welfare of the proposed residents.
OCMA has emphasized the 1 imi tation of the existing proposed access
road and has , by necessity, pursued formal cl ari fi cati on of this
position. To our knowledge, no title report has been produced that
demonstrates that an easement exists to the benefit of parcels 5,
8 or the property to the south . We note this i n 1 i ght of the fact
that the Council of June 16, 1981 concluded that insurance for the
entire property, showing entire easement must be obtained, or the
action will become null and void.
In light of the aforementioned and in view of the other noted ob-
jections, coupled with the present negative recommendation from the
Council's Planning Department, OCMA finds no value or reason for
~,, further consideration of this matter.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-One
Commissioner Master commented that he would hope that this is not
the only property for which they would make a comment regarding
environmental impact.
In response to a question from Commissioner Coontz, Mr. Gilway ex-
plained that the proponent of this project has been describing the
burdening of the easement by numerical traffic going back and forth
on the easement. In reality, that easement does not service the
other parcels that would make up the project. He then pointed this
out on the map.
Mr. Gilway pointed out that the condition from the Council is that
they were abl e to provide ti tl e insurance showing easement to the
entire property. They have-not been able to do this.
Commissioner Hart felt it was unclear about the limited access of
this easement. However, OCMA is saying that only one parcel of four
can use the easement.
~ Chairman Mickelson asked that, assuming that a determination were
made by the City that some land use could be put on this entire
parcel , without the benefit of the easement across OCMA's property,
would OCMA still object to the use? Mr. Gilway replied that two
accesses were required for this particular use. They probably would
be opposed to devel opment i n that area. Chairman Mickelson stated
that he was asking this question because he would like to know what
use OCMA sees for this piece of property. Several uses have come
before this Commission and have been opposed by the people in the
area. There doesn't seem to be any use which is acceptable.
Joe Troya, 2402 W. Mills, Orange, addressed the Commission in opposi-
tion to this application, stating that he felt that the residents in
this area are caught in the middle between OCMA and the developers of
the project. It is almost impossible to make a turn from ~1ills Drive
to Almond right now. H e saw more problems in this area when this
project is developed. He wanted to know whether this is a cul-de-sac
if it is linked to Mills Drive.
Chairman Mickelson explained that the report states that it acts like
a cul-de-sac even though it is linked to Mills Drive.
Mr. Troya wanted to know what the minimum width is fora two-way
street. Mr. Johnson explained that the minimum alley, if you consider
this an alley is 20 feet. If it is to be considered a two-way travel
way it must be 24 feet. He pointed out that this street was 30 feet
wide where it connects between Mills and Almond. Mr. Troya wanted
to know if this could be closed off. Mr. Johnson explained that the
State's approach to that was that instead of putting a large cul-de-sac
on both ends of those streets, they would connect them the way they
were connected.
Mr. Troya pointed out that he has 1 ived i n that area for 12 years and
at one time there was a longer street, which he remembers. It was
just closed off and at this time there is a parking problem. He
felt that the City should go out and look at this.
Lillian Breckenfeld, 2344 Mills Drive, Orange, addressed the Com-
mission in opposition to this application, stating that the houses
i n that area were bui 1 t in 1953. She has 1 ived there since 1954 .
She pointed out that the street connecting Almond is not 30 feet wide.
The realtor was allowed to claim hardship to build three-bedroom
houses. When people park tfi.nee cars in that area there is no room
for even two cars to pass in that alleyway. She stated that she is
not opposed to a mobile home park for seniors, but she is opposing
the impact on their residential streets.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-Two
Benjamin L. Harper, past president of Orange County Medical
Association, addressed the Commission, stating that there is a
council which decides issues for the OCMA and there have been only
a half dozen projects brought to them for this piece of property.
He wondered if it is feasible to come in for a second recommendation
after there is already a recommendation on the property.
Chairman Mickelson explained that this is proper procedure.
Mr. Greek again addressed the Commission, explaining that OCMA does
not oppose this plan. They are opposed to access to Flower. This
plan asks for access to Almond.
Mr. Johnson asked about whether the remarks made by the OCMA
representative refer to Plot #5. Mr. Minshew replied that if you
are going to use thi s for any purpose, there would be the same re-
quirement as for the other application that they have access to the
easement. You would have to prove that you have the use for all of
the property, because the City has no more power than anybody else
has when it comes to going across people's land. The way he under-
stands it, the problem for the primary access, you will have for
the emergency access on the same basis.
Duncan Clark, resident of Orange, addressed the Commission, stating
that he had supported this mobile home park when it came up in May.
He is not i nterested i n thi s other than developing homes for peopl e
in the City of Orange who need this. He personally feels that the
citizens of Orange need a mobile home park of this type. It seems a
shame that we cannot get some satisfaction out of this by making
both routes available. He suggested that the Commission pass this
on both streets and let the court make the final decision and settle
the issue.
Commissioner Master explained that the conditions of easement are
clouded, which the City has nothing to do with. The Commission is
also looking at the matter of public safety.
There being no one else to speak for or against this application,
the Chairman closed the public hearing.
Chairman Mickelson pointed out that a petition has been filed in
support of an own-your-own mobi 1 e home park, and also one i n
opposition to the project has been filed.
There was discussion among the Commissioners with regard to a
revision for this Tentative Tract application. It was concluded
that options are to re-state previous approval or accept the
modifications presented tonight.
Moved by Commissioner Mickelson, seconded by Commissioner Coontz,
to accept the supplementary information to the Environmental Impact
Report as being adequate to the decision of the Commission.
AYES: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson,
to recommend that the accesses in this project be reversed, making
Almond Avenue the primary access and Flower the secondary access,
for the reasons that the additional traffic on this street would be
insignificant and the Commission would like to see both accesses
open and free.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-Three
Mr. Minshew commented that it should be easier to obtain the
emergency access with this modification. He pointed out that
neither version will do the development any good until the court
makes some kind of decision in the matter.
Commissioner
Flower is the
in futility.
AYES: Commissioners
NOES: Commissioner
ABSENT: Commissioners
Vasquez commented that the emergency access off of
better of the two. However, this might be an exercise
Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Vasquez
Master
none MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS:
REQUEST FROM VILLA FORD TO ADDRESS PLANNING COMMISSION REGARDING
VARIANCE 1554:
Property located on the north side of Heim Avenue, east of Tustin
Street.
Mr. Murphy explained that at the August 3rd meeting it was moved by
Commissioner Plickelson and seconded by Commissioner Hart to rescind
the past motion on Villa Ford to direct Staff to set up public
hearings to consider revocation of a variance, with the finding that
Villa Ford has until October 15, 1981, based on a previous extension
of time to respond to the Commission's concerns with regard to the
existing sign on the property on East Heim Avenue. Mr. Murphy further
explained that the Vil l a Ford peopl e, through an attorney, have fi 1 ed
a 1 etter dated September 15, 1981 with the Commission, stati ng their
proposal for the future use of that property. Mr. Murphy pointed
out that the Commission should make a decision as to whether or not
the sign should remain and, if so, under what conditions.
In the letter from the Villa Ford attorneys, it was explained that
the automobile leasing operation will entail the location of the
Director of Leasing, 1 easi ng sales personnel and at 1 east one 1 easi ng
secretary-office worker at the leasing office. Various records re-
lating to the leasing operation will be located on the premises.
No automobiles or automobile services will be maintained or performed
on the site as those functions will be performed at the Villa Ford
mai n faci 1 i ty at 2550 North Tus ti n Avenue. Therefore, there wi 11 be
a neat, tidy office operation conducted in the handsome building to
be constructed on the site. Villa Ford believes that this would be
in the best interests of the City of Orange, Villa Ford, Inc. and
Mangano and Sons, Inc.
Commissioner Master asked if the report from January 12, 1981 was
still valid. Mr. Murphy replied that it was not.
The Commission then asked for a short report from Mr. Murphy to
bring them up to date on what has transpired in this matter. Mr.
Murphy explained that the original conditional use permit was to allow
the residence on the Heim property to be converted to a leasing office.
The original variance was for a 40 foot high sign rather than the
regular authorization of 17 or 18 feet in height. The property is
located at 1815 East Heim Avenue, east of Tustin Street. Mr. Murphy
explained that the Commission is required to review all freeway
oriented signs and that is a freeway oriented sign.
Mr. Murphy then pointed out that the conditional use permit woul d
have expired on April 15, 1981 . However, the Planning Commission
granted an extension of six months, until October 15, 1981, at the
request of the applicant. The reasons for this extension were
stated by the applicant and summarized by Staff that there "appeared"
to be a misunderstanding of what the improvement conditions were and
Staff took the position that perhaps that wasn't quite a val i d under-
standing of what the problem was.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-Four
Gary Johnson stated that plans were submitted on August 18, 1981 for
street improvement. Prior to that there were several discussions,
the first being that they were not sure what the City wanted. Mr,
Johnson suggested hiring an engineer to look at the problem and
design the street improvement. These have been going through plan
check. Mr. Johnson explained that various changes have been made
and they should be approved this week, R. J. Noble Co. has been
calling, stating that they have a contract to do the work and they
wished to combine that project with one next door and are anxious
to proceed. The City staff has been checking, making changes and
taking action, Plans should be OK'd this week. If the bond is
approved, Mr. Johns on assumed that they will probably begin next
week .
It was explained that the item before the Commission is the approval
of the sign, Is it to remain and, if so, under what conditions?
Chairman Mickelson asked if the conditional use permit and variance
were tied to one another. Mr. Murphy replied in the negative. The
issue is the fact that they have erected a sign without setting up
the leasing use for the building.
There was discussion among the Commissioners as to what the jus tifi-
cation was for the erection of the sign.
Chairman Mickelson asked for further clarification of what the
determination is before the Commission. h1r. Murphy explained that
the applicant i s stating that he wi 11 be 1 easi ng a suite on the
property with another party owning the building. A decision must
be made as to whether this is sufficient use for having the freeway
sign, It was decided that the area of the sign is within the code.
The variance is only for the height of the sign.
Commissioner Coontz brought out the fact that we now have a different
set of ground rules. Now what we are saying is that we have no
stipulation as to-how much of an office building that you own, rent,
lease, or whatever, in order to have a sign.
Commissioner Master felt that it is certainly implied in the code,
even though it might not be written, that the use of a building be
in conjunction with a sign.
Chairman Mickelson felt that the proper way is to ask the City Council
to tell Villa Ford to take down their illegal sign.
There was further discussion among the Commissioners with regard to
the signage on a piece of property and to whom it should belong.
Bruce Rauch, attorney for Villa Ford, 1900 Avenue of the Stars,
Suite 1100, Los Angeles, addressed the Commission, pointing out
that there were two applications:
1. To use a residence for a leasing office.
2. To erect a sign higher than what is normally allowed.
He pointed out that the variance was granted, without conditions, and
the conditional use permit was granted, with numerous conditions,
amongst which were the conditions that certain off-site improvements
be completed. Those off-site improvements are in the process of
being finalized now. He explained that the bond will be filed to-
morrow or the next day, as they are very anxious to do that work.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-Five
Mr. Rauch then explained that the problem that occurred was that in
the planning stage Villa Ford planned to use the residence for a
leasing operation. Since that time there has been a tremendous drop
in the automobile industry and, therefore, they had to look at several
other options. It was decided to take down the residence and have a
building erected with Villa Ford leasing a suite from another owner.
Mr. Rauch felt that it was clear that a tenant of real property can
utilize a sign to identify their business. He pointed out that the
problem that Villa Ford faces is that if they transfer the property
in question to Mr. Mangano, they will no longer be the owner. During
construction the sign will still be there and the question might come
up that the owner of the sign does not do business at that location.
If they were to have this problem, they might be forced to go back to
Plan I and convert the old house to a leasing office. Therefore, they
are coming to the Commission to request that the Commission resolve
that, if Villa Ford transfers the property to Mr. h1angano and he
constructs improvements, as proposed, if no action will be taken by the
City during the construction period, they will go into escrow and
thereupon go into construction and Villa Ford will lease a suite and
actively conduct a leasing operation in that area.
Commissioner Coontz stated that the Commission is being asked to
approve an illegal sign. Mr. Rauch didn't agree that this sign is
illegal and they would resist any attempt to take the sign down.
They merely want the Commission to tell them that they will not
initiate any action to revoke the sign on the grounds that Villa Ford
does not own the property and is not doing business during the con-
struction period.
Mr. Rauch explained that Villa Ford would not oppose a condition
stating that if they vacate the premises that the sign would come
down. Commissioner Coontz explained that the Commission does not wish
to have the sign used- by anyone other than the original owner.
Commissioner Master stated that he understands that there can be a
sign for someone not owning the bui 1 di ng, but i t i s a different story
with a freeway oriented sign. The whole tone changes at this point
and, therefore, the owner of the sign needs to be the owner to some
extent of the property below i t.
~, Commissioner Hart pointed out the phrase used, "good faith",and the
fact that this has not been shown by Villa Ford in the past. Mr.
Rauch pointed out that if they did not intend to act in good faith
they would not be going forward with street improvements, even though
they are not going to use the conditional use permit. They would not
be opposed to a condition whereby the City checks on the ongoing
constructi on of the bui 1 di ng and that a review come before the Com-
mission in this regard.
Commissioner Coontz was bothered by the fact that the sign was wanted
and the house was just a vehicle. This is another reason why she
sees bad faith in this situation.
Mr. Rauch replied to this comment.
Commissioner Coontz explained that perhaps one of the reasons why they
were lenient with Villa Ford was because of the money which Villa
Ford brings -into the City. However, there is more than the money
which they bring into the City which should be considered. Villa
Ford owes something to the City also,
,~'' Mr. Rauch explained that the City of Orange stands to gai n from the
site improvements. If P1r. Mangano builds the building which is
proposed, the City wi 11 be rid of a derelict house and have a beauti -
ful building which will have a broader tax base and bring business
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-Six
people into the community. The sign will be in conformity with an
existing use within the building and every thing will be, at that
point in time, in accordance with the ordinances and codes of the
City of Orange. The City will benefit and Villa Ford will benefit.
They are asking the assurance of the Planning Commission that if they
transfer title to Mr. Mangano that the Ci ty wi 11 not take any action
against Villa Ford on the grounds that they do not own or do business
on the property.
Commissioner Master stated that he was concerned about two things:
1, The property will not stand idle.
2. Is the Commission about to seta precedent?
He explained that the freeway signage is a sensitivity factor.
Commissioner Coontz stated that the Commission does not have the right
to promise Villa Ford that they will not move against them.
Mr. Rauch replied that they are not asking the Planning Commission to
make the decision as to whether the lease of several hundred feet as
a tenant is enough to have the sign. All they are asking is that
during the period of time of construction that the technical ground
that they have ceased to be the owner be the ground to be forced to
take the sign down. They are not asking for any determination along
this line.
Mr. Minshew stated that he had talked with Mr. Rauch recently. He
explained that in his office they do the kind of thing that is being
requested here and it is not that big of an issue. He could see no
problem in dealing with this by the Commission. He did not see a legal
problem for the City in this regard. This is one way to clear this
whole situation up. When construction is over this can be conditioned
so that the sign never belongs to anyone but Villa Ford.
Chairman Mickelson thought that a simpler action would be to grant an
extension of time on the review for Villa Ford. Commissioner Coontz
felt that i n the i nterim there should be a study of this application
to decide what will be done at the end of the extension. She suggested
a synopsis of the minutes to go along with the variance extension to
the City Council . It was further explained that the Commission has the
power to grant an extension without review by the Council. There was
feeling among the Commissioners that this is a broader issue and the
City Council should be requested to review their decision.
Moved by Commissioner Coontz, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson,
that the Planning Commission is taking action to extend the use of
the Villa Ford sign for eight (8) months, at which time the use of
the sign wi 11 be reviewed for its compliance with the original i ntent
of the conditional use permit and variance which were to permit Villa
Ford signage on the freeway in conjunction with their leasing operation,
as approved in Conditional Use Permit 987.
Commissioner Coontz felt that they must let the Council know where
they are in this situation and that probably a summary of the minutes
should be attached to the recommendation to the Council.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Hart
NOES: Commissioners Mickelson, Master
ABSENT: Commissioners none
ABSTAIN: Commissioner Vasquez MOTION FAILED
io
~ f
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-Seven
Commissioner Vasquez explained his abstention vote, stating that
since this subject goes back quite a bit before he took his seat
on the Commission, he did not feel qualified to vote on it.
Ch airman Mickelson explained his negative vote, saying that he was
not opposed to granting Villa Ford an extension, but he did not think
this is the time or place to create legislation by dreaming up inter-
pretations of the sign code and applying those to conditions of
extension. He was very uncomfortable with that process and did not
think this is the right way to govern and legislate.
There was discussion among the Commissioners with regard to what was
stated in the conditional use permit and in the variance.
Chairman Mickelson was not comfortable with any action which gives
permission to Villa Ford which they do not need permission to do.
Mr. Minshew suggested that the matter be continued for six to eight
months and further action could b e taken any time during that period.
Chairman Mickelson thought that if the Commission is genuinely con-
cerned about the problems here then they should sit down and study
the sign ordinance and suggest changes if they feel some should be
made .
AYES:
NOES
ABSENT:
ABSTAIN:
IN RE:
Chairman Mickelson asked Mr. Rauch, since Villa Ford has had the sign
up for about 12 years and they have not occupied the property, why
they are concerned at this point in time. Mr. Rauch replied that
right now they have title to the property and there is a connection
between ownership of the property and ownership of the sign. They
want to cooperate with the City-and do not want to struggle with them.
They only want to get past the construction period and occupy their
part of the building. Then they will deal with the right to have the
sign i n that place.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson,. to
continue this item of discussion for an eight-month period, at which
time Commission will review the Villa Ford sign as to its conformance.
Commissioners Mickelson,
Commissioners none
Commissioners none
Commissioner Vasquez
Coontz, Hart, Master
MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Coontz suggested a review of the sign ordinance.
OTHER BUSINESS:
Commissioner Coontz brought up an article in the Orange County section
of the Times, with regard to developing public land and preserves,
pointing out that the article didn't tell much, only speaking about
.the first point. She explained that she had talked to Mayor Beam
today and he thought that there were some other legal considerations,
but he didn't know to what extent this could apply to the Irvine
Ranch. He suggested that a report be forthcoming, possibly for the
joint meeting.
Chairman Mickelson asked Staff to get the County's report and get a
progress report before the joint session.
Commissioner Vasquez stated that he thought this item comes up either
tomorrow or Wednesday.
1
Planning Commission Minutes
October 5, 1981
Page Twenty-Eight
Commissioner Master brought up the subject of a regional airport
which would be bigger than Orange County, explaining in some detail
what is being proposed. He stated a concern about Irvine land in
the Orange area which is being looked at.
Commissioner Coontz brought up the upcoming joint session with the
City Council. As a Commission, she thought they should get a memo
out and come to some conclusion about the kinds of things they wish
to discuss .
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 1:15 p.m, to be reconvened at a study
session on Monday, October 12, 1981 at 5:15 p.m, and thence be re-
convened to a regular Commission meeting on Monday, October 19,
1981, at 7:30 p.m. at the Civic Center Council Chambers, 300 East
Chapman Avenue, Orange, California.
P
i
STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING ORDER
SS. OF ADJOURNMENT
COUNTY OF ORANGE )
Jere P. Murphy, being first duly sworn, deposes and says:
That I am the duly chosen, qualified and acting secretary of the Planning
Commission of the City of Orange; that the regular meeting of the Planning
Commission of the City of Orange was held on October 5, 1981; said meeting
was ordered and adjourned to the time and place specified in the order of
adjournment attached hereto; that on October 6, 1981 , at the hour of
2:00 p.m., I posted a copy of said order at a conspicuous place on or
near the door of the place at which said meeting of October 5, 1981 was
held.
^~
EXCERPT FROM THE MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ORANGE CITY
PLANNING COMMISSION HELD ON OCTOB ER 5, 1981.
The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was cal 1 ed to
order by Chairman Mickelson at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Mickelson, Coontz, Hart, Master, Vasquez
ABSENT: None
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Vasquez that this
meeting adjourn at 1:15 a.m, on Tuesday, October 6, 1981, to reconvene
at 7:30 p.m. Monday, October 19, 1981 at the Civic Center Council
Chambers, 300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange, California.
I, Jere Murphy, Secretary to the Orange Planning Commission, Orange,
California, do hereby certify that the foregoing i s a true, fu 11 and
correct copy of that portion of the minutes of a regular meeting of the
Planning Commission held on Monday, October 5, 1981.
Dated this 6th day of October, 1981 at 2:00 p.m.
JQre P,. Murphy, City N~~nner ~
S cretary to the Planning Commissi n
o~ the City of Orange. ~'
C