HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/6/1980 - Minutes PCPLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
City of Orange
Orange, California
October 6, 1980
Monday, 7:30 p.m.
The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called to order by
Chairman Coontz at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
ABSENT: Commissioners none
STAFF Jere Murphy, Administrator of Current Planning and Commission
PRESENT: Secretary; Stan Soo-Hoo, Associate Planner; Gene Minshew,
Assistant City Attorney; Gary Johnson, City Engi Weer; Lon
Cahi 11 , Fire Prevention Bureau; Bert Yamasaki , Director of
Planning & Development Services; Jack McGee, Associate Planner;
Doris Ofsthun, Recording Secretary.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG.
IN RE: APPROVAL OF PIINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 15, ]980
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Master to
approve the minutes of September 15, 1980 as transmitted.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
I N RE : NEW H EA.RI NGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1057, TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 80-768 -
J.L. WILLIAMS & CO., INC.
Request to allow conversion of two industrial buildings into
five condominium units for property located on the south side
of Fletcher Avenue east of American Way. (Note: This project
is categorically exempt from Environmental Review.)
Mr. Murphy explained to the Commission that applicant has asked
for withdrawal of the application, finding that it was not his
prerogative to go ahead with the subdivision of ownership at
this point in time. Staff recommended that Commission move to
allow the withdrawal of Conditional Use Permit 1057 and Tentative
Parcel Map 80-768.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Ault to
allow the withdrawal from the agenda of Conditional Use Permit
1057, Tentative Parcel Map 80-768.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS:
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 10825 - INVESTMENT CONCEPTS, INC.:
Request to allow conversion of an existing 250 unit apartment
to condominiums at the northwest corner of La Veta Avenue and
Lemon Street. (Note: This project is categori cally exempt
from Environmental Review.) (Continued from meeting of
September 3, 1980.)
Commissioner Mickelson stated that he would abstain from voting
on this matter, due to a conflict of interest.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6 , 1980
Page Two
r
Mr. P1urphy explained that this matter had been continued from
the September 3rd Planning Commission meeting. He pointed out
that the Commission has received a letter from Investment
Concepts , Inc. , dated October 1 , 1980 i n which they amended thei r
request to allow conversion of their 250 unit apartment project.
P1r. Murphy pointed out three of the more significant items i n
the amendment as being:
1. That all units would remain family units. This would no
longer be a proposal for senior citizen housing or adult
housing.
2. Notices of intent to convert wi 11 be given 240 days prior
to the beginning of a sales campaign instead of 120 days.
Al l tenants wi 11 have the right of first refusal to purchase
the unit being occupied for a period of 60 days in accordance
with State law.
3. The project will be phased so that approximately 60 units
would be sold during each six month period, to be sold no
earlier than September, 1982, with 60 unit phases being sold
every six months until September of 1984.
Mr. Murphy explained that the applicant has i ndi Gated that he di d
meet with the tenants of the project shortly after the September
3rd Plannina Commission meeting and the major conce rn of the
tenants seemed to be that of relocation for those who would not
be purchasing units.
Mr. Murphy stated that if the Planning Commission would find the
application acceptable, Staff recommended that two additional
conditions be added to the 24 conditions listed in the original
Staff Report of August 29 , 1980 , as fol 1 ows
25. Notice to convert wi 11 be 240 days , rather than 120 days
as specified by City ordinance. Relocation assistance pay-
ments will be adhered to during the 240 day notice period.
26. The first 60 unit phase of the project will not be sold until
September, 1982 and additional phases of 60 units each will
be sold at six month intervals from September, 1982 through
September, 1984.
Commissioner Master stated that he had not received the latest
memorandum from Staff, or copy of the letter sent from Investment
Concepts, Inc, and, therefore, had not had a chance to go over
this latest information.
Chairman Coontz opened the public hearing.
Representing George Chami, the applicant, Philip Smith, 22932
Rem61e Drive, E1 Toro, addressed the Planning Commission in favor
of this application. He pointed out that with regard to the 60
units to be sold each 6 months, this was used as an example. He
explained that if, in fact, 60 units would divide a building they
would like to leave the building intact. This might mean 62 units,
or some other odd number, but it would be very close to the example
of 60 units. He further explained about the letter which was sent
regarding relocati on. As was menti oned i n the October 1st letter
to the Department of Planning, they have done a great deal of
market research and have tried to gather as much information as
possible which would relate to today. This is one of the problems
with this type of a situation - to gather information that can be
projected forward two years and sti 11 be valid. The best that they
,f
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6, 1980
Page Th ree
r
could come up with is a trend of what is avai Table today that
could be offered to the tenants as they are being relocated.
He pointed out that they have also done detailed studies as to
what is available through rental agencies. The last report is
that there are 687 family units which rent in comparable rental
areas within about a five mile radius of the apartment project.
He explained that it will be about two years from now when they
start the conversion, so this is a projection.
Mark McCarthy, 401 W. La Veta, Orange, member of the Executive
Board of the La Veta Grand Tenants Association, addressed the
Commission in opposition to this application. He pointed out
that they agree with the statement and the new proposal that
their chief concern is relocation, but they do not feel that this
has been adequately dealt with. One of the primary questions that
they had was regarding availability. It was their impression that
this was the primary question addressed by the Commission to Mr.
Chami at the September 3rd meeting. A.t the tenant's meeting with
Mr. Smith, representing Mr. Chami, this issue was discussed at
great length, and he personally dialogued with Mr. Smith for about
15 minutes regarding what is available in the rental housing in
the area. The tenants feel that much of the information on avail-
able housing has been found through ads and this is a distortion
and inaccurate. They feel that all o-F the reasons for the con-
tinuance have not been resolved. They have no more information
now than they had 30 days ago and there is no more basis for
making a decision.
Chairman Coontz asked Mr. McCarthy to comment on the 240 days'
notice as opposed to 120 days and also the fact that apartments
are to be sold as family units. He answered that 240 days is an
empty gesture inasmuch as if this application is approved they
know that they will have to move. They will really not have 240
days. In effect, they have two years. They still do not feel
that this deals with the problem.
He pointed out that there have been many conversions in the past
several years i n the ci ty of Orange and finding housing for 60
or 250 families will still be difficult. They do not feel that
this is an effective gesture to the families living in the
apartments.
Commissioner Ault asked how long the owner should have to dispose
of his property. Mr. McCarthy answered that if he was a homeowner
it would not be the business of the Planning Commission how or
when he disposed of his property, but is more complicated than
that. This involves 250 families who will not have anywhere to
go. As long as there i s i nadequate rental housing i n the city,
i t is city government responsibility to see that this housing is
provided. There are gray areas between the right of Mr. Chami to
dispose of his property as he sees fit and the obligation of the
city government to see that these 250 families have a place to
live. This is why an application like this comes before the City
Council and the Planning Commission.
Vicky Weston, 401 W. La Veta, Orange, Co-Chairman La Veta Grand
Tenants Association, addressed the Commission in opposition to
this application. She spoke regarding comparable units in the
Santa Ana-Tustin-Anaheim area and wondere d why these are involved.
These people live in Orange and want to stay in the city of Orange.
She wondered if the 600 number of vacant units given earlier were
veri fied vacancies . She said she has had experience working with
~, rental agencies. You are given a list and must go out and look
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6 , 1980
Page Four
at them. Many of them are just taking applications and many of
them have already been rented. The listings are not always
current or available. She stated that she had called around
earlier today and found 14 vacancies. Four had a lower rent,
but were in a worse area of town, possibly with, a higher crime
rate. There was less square footage and no air conditioning.
She found 10 in a comparable area or better area. Only one had
equal square footage and/or air conditioning.
Chairman Coontz felt that there is no universal meaning for
comparable. Ms. Weston explained what she thought comparable
consisted of. She thought this would mean in the same rent range
with the same amount of facilities.
Lori Erlandson, 401 La Veta, #121, Orange, addressed the Commission
in opposition to this application, stating that she thought that
comparable basically means that you have screens on your windows ,
no drunks or men carrying guns, the same caliber of people living
in the area as they have now.
Ken Hollingshead, 401 W. La Veta, Orange, Co-chairperson of La
Veta Grand Tenants Association, addressed the Commission in
opposition to this application. He stated that he felt the main
issue here is the issue of money. One of the things that as
renters, they get the impression that because they are renters
they are second class citizens. He further stated that they have
received two proposals from Investment Concepts, Inc. The first
proposal was a 10% mortgage situation. The new proposal is now
12 z%. They have since pursued this and have found that, pursuing
the sources they were given, this is not even a possibility. It
wi l l be more l i ke 13 or 14%. As renters , i f they were i n the
financial position to buy, they would buy. But they are renting
because they cannot afford to purchase. Financially, they would
like to be in a position to purchase. At the rates that are being
proposed, less than 5% of the people would even be eligible to
purchase and most of those people are moving out of the area be-
cause they have found something more reasonable. He felt that
this is an emergency situation. There is very little rental
housing available. He waited three months to get into the apart-
ment in which they are now residing. They do not have any place
to go i n the city of Orange . They fee 1 pride i n the ci ty of
Orange and wish to live here. From a renter's standpoint, there
is very little available. He pointed out that this is a crisis
situation. There are not 30% who can purchase, which is what the
trend indicates. If this passes and the apartments convert, they
will all be driven out of the city of Orange.
Commissioner Hart commented on the changing of the interest rates.
He explained that probably at the time they viewed the proposal,
it would have been right, but in the last two weeks it has jumped
22 percentage points. The figure doesn't hold steady. The
Commission is sitting here listening to people who feel like
second class citizens and the Commission feels badly about this
as they agonize over their decisions. They try to promote multiple
housing. However, renting is a business and money cannot be made
in the city of Orange so no rental housing is being built.
Mr. Hollingshead stated that he realized there were two issues
here. Business vs. human righta.
Commissioner Hart explained that this is the fault of government.
Mr. Hollingshead felt that the city is at a crisis point and soon
the city must suffer because the rental population will be driven
out of Orange. Commissioner Hart answered that from a legal stand-
point the law allows Mr. Chami to convert. He could sue and
probably win his suit if he were to be denied this right.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6, 1980
Page Five
Commissioner Ault explained that he has been on the Planning
Commission for a long time. They were given several applica-
tions for large apartment complexes during his time on the
Commission and the local residents did not want this in their
neighborhoods. Thereofore, apartments were limited. In his
opinion, they must build housing on as many pieces of land as
they can. Now the Commission is caught in a bind. What is right?
To go for the owner or for the renter? It is a disturbing
situation.
Mr. Hollingshead mentioned that there are some strides being made
in single family homes in the E1 Toro area fora reasonable amount
of money. He is hoping that something of this nature will come
out of this . We must work on th i s together.
Robert Gilstrap, 401 W. La Veta, Orange, addressed the Commission
in opposition to this application. He spoke to the right of the
individual to sell his own property. However, he is concerned
about the children. If apartments are not built, the children will
suffer. He stated that he does know of a few apartment units in
Orange. But unless something happens there will be no apartments
built. As apartments become more scarce, rents increase. There
is a larger population of renters and fewer units. He worries
about the next generation. He is afraid that the Planning Commission
is looking at it in a short term way. But what about the future?
Chairman Coontz answered that the Commissioners' concern is for the
future also. But even though they allow the opportunity for more
multiple units to be built, they will not be built because of high
interest rates, etc. Many cities are not interested in getting
involved with the Federal government programs when they are told
what they can and cannot do.
There was further discussion between Mr. Gilstrap and Chairman
Coontz with regard to the plight of renters when property owners
do not want apartment units built near their properties.
Mr. Gilstrap then questioned Commissioner Hart with regard to the
owner of their apartment units not making money on his units. He
wondered if they could see his records to find out where he is
losing money.
Chairman Coontz pointed out that the purpose of these meetings is
to have input from Staff, the people involved, etc. and then each
of the Commissioners makes an individual decision.
Jeff Burns, 401 W. La Veta, #216, Orange, spoke with regard to
facts and figures on diminishing housing. He explained that Dick
Turpin had written an article in the newspaper very recently,
stating that for the first time in 80 years the number of housing
units are diminishing.
He spoke to Commissioner Ault with regard to whether Mr. Chami
had the right to dispose of his property. The question is not
whether or not he has that right, but how he goes about it. If
he put the whole complex up for sale, someone would probably come
along and purchase it, but if he sells it unit by unit, he will
double his profit. Whether he is making money or losing money
probably depends on how many times he has refinanced it. He felt
that a major problem within the city is being overlooked but no
one has mentioned any figures about what this will cost the sur-
rounding businesses. We are talking about approximately 14%
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6, 1980
Page Six
interest, plus principal and taxes, which will put the payments
at around $950/mo. for each unit. This is an inflation of 137%
per year. When this is amplified by all the conversions in the
city, this money is being taken from the coffers of the businesses
in the city of Orange.
Chairman Coontz asked whether the renters would not still be
spending their money in Orange. He explained that there would
be less money to spend in gas stations, markets, etc. because of
the inflationary mortgage cost. This is basic money flow. The
city of Orange is being denied this money with an inflationary
method. We are allowing inflation to run rampant in Orange and
in every other city in the United States. Inflation is a fact
of life, but it is overlooked.
Chairman Coontz wanted to know how this applies to the condo
conversion. Mr. Burns reiterated his economic theory.
Andrea Wood, 401 W. La Veta, Orange, apologized for the emotional
'~' state of the people in the audience, but she explained that we
are talking about their homes. She wondered if this is a moral
issue and therefore it is difficult to legislate. She felt, how-
ever, that there are answers to this and it can be legislated.
She believes they can recommend to the City Counci 1 and i t i s thei r
job to legislate. This must stop somewhere.
Tanya Campbell, 401 W. La Veta, #239, Orange, addressed the Com-
mission in opposition to this application, stating that she has
heard words to the effect that Mr. Chami is losing money on these
apartments. She has done some very quick calculations and, at
the rate of $375/mo. multiplied by 250, he makes $125,000 per year
gross. Maintenance and other costs and expenses must be figured
in, but if he loses money he can write this off as a tax shelter.
Mr. Smith again addressed the Commission in rebuttal, stating that
with regard to availability of rental housing in the area for re-
location of tenants, they had provided all of the information they
have gathered to the tenants. The tenants informed him that they
had done several studies but they have not divulged this to the
owners. He disagreed that there was no difference between 60 and
250 families being relocated. It is certainly easier to relocate
60 families as opposed to 250, particularly 60 in a six month
period, spread out over a couple of years. Some of those residents
will have until 1984 to relocate.
He referred to the several comparisons which had been made with
regard to the monthly mortgage and today's rent. If they are not
comparable, then he is not sure where they are getting their figures.
They do the best that they can to gather the best possible informa-
tion that could be meaningful. Some of this information will not
be meaningful two years from now. It is difficult to make compari-
sons. He admitted that they had initially presented a 10% mortgage
and had to go back and revise to 12-3/4%. They try to stay as
current as they can. They offered the 10% discount and, in writing
and verbally, made it clear that there would be no rental increases
forward for 24 months. If this project is not converted, there
would be about a 10% increase, just based on regular costs increases,
and by 1990 this would amount to about $1000 rent per month. He
pointed out that they have tried to be very responsible owners.
They have tried to take good care of the property. The disposition
Planning Commission Plinutes
October 6, 1980
Page Seven
of the property has been discussed hypothetically. But what
if they closed the doors and everyone had to move? This makes
as much sense as some of the other arguments. There is no question
but that economics enters into this whole situation. Mr. Smith
then stated that the owners had some suggested findings for the
Commission and he distributed a list of suggestions to the
Commission members.
Chairman Coontz asked Mr. Smith questions regarding the four
rental agencies mentioned in their report. He explained that
all four of these agencies list available units and generate
information. All four agencies operate in the same way. The
individual pays a fee and for that fee, for varying periods from
90 days to two years , they receive free 1 i sti ngs . Those 1 i s ti ngs
show the city, the rent, whether or not children are admitted, etc.
From this information, you pick the area that you wish, the rental
range, etc. He explained that he took the map and drew a 5 mile
radius from La Veta Grand and from that area he got his informa-
tion with regard to the available rental units.
Chairman Coontz then explained that the reason she asked these
questions was to clarify the fact that the Condo Conversion Code
does not specifically say that the available housing units must
be located in the city of Orange. It says "area".
George Chami, Newport Beach, owner of La Veta Grand, commented on
the fact that they have been developing for about 15 years and he
is one of the biggest apartment unit developers in the city of
Orange. He explained that if he were to be permitted by the city
of Orange to convert his apartment buildings during the construction
process, he could build all kinds of apartments. Orange could
enter into an agreement not to sell the units for 10 to 15 years.
his is an economical fact of life. They cannot build apartments
for rent. They would have to charge $900-1000 per month rent.
This is a very simple concept and he would be glad to meet with
the Commission on this.
He went on to comment that they are making terrific money on the
La Veta Grand project. He has never refinanced a piece of property.
If he were to refinance the property, the rent would go from
$375/mo. to $950/mo. He feels that rental housing stock is
constant. It does not decrease. It would only decrease if people
move out of homes to apartment conversions and they are not doing
that.
There being no one else to speak for or against this application,
the Chairman closed the public hearing.
At this time, Chairman Coontz complimented Mr. Hollingshead and
Mr. McCarthy for their fine presentations. Commissioner Tlaster
also commented that if there was ever a stigma of second class
citizens attached to renters, he felt that tonight's presentations
disproved that. They were highly intelligent presentations. He
also complimented Mr. Chami on the operation that is being run at
La Veta Grand. The renters wouldn't like where they are if the
ingredients weren't there - the quality of life is good, the
rental appears to be more than fair.
Commissioner Master again wished to state that he did not receive
the written information that the other commissioners apparently
received, that he first saw this information at the meeting tonight.
He felt that there are conflicting figures.
l~
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6 , 1980
Page Eight
Commissioner Hart pointed out that one statement reads 20% are
purchased by investors and the other paper states that 30% of
the units are purchased by tenants.
Commissioner Ault commented that this is a very emotional
situation. However, he felt that the owner is leaning over
backwards to give tenants a chance to find another place to
live. In view of the fact that it is his property, he is com-
plying with the code.
Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Coontz to
recommend approval of Tentative Tract Map 10825, subject to the
24 conditions set forth in the Staff Report and with the addition
of the two conditions as stated by Mr. Murphy, namely:
25 . Notice to convert wi 11 be 240 days , rather than 120 days
as specified by City ordinance. Relocation assistance
payments will be adhered to during the 240 day notice
period.
26 . The first 60 unit phase of the project wi 11 not be sol d
until September, 1982 and additional phases of 60 units
each will be sold at six month intervals from September,
1982 through September, 1984.
and in compliance with the findings set forth in Section
17.83.060 of Amended Ordinance 38-80.
Chairman Coontz explained that she would vote for this, but she
understood the problem regarding families losing their homes.
She did not feel that renters were the only ones with these kind
of problems. Many homeowners in California cannot continue to
stay in their homes, because of the extreme inflationary costs.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none
ABSTAIN: Commissioners Master, Mickelson MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Master wished it to be a matter of record that he
abstained from voting on this matter because he did not receive
the proper written information before this evening.
PRE-ZONE CHANGE 931 - CITY OF ORANGE:
Request to prezone property from County E4-1 to City R-1-40 in
the general area of Mead Avenue and Orange Park Boulevard. (Note:
Negative Declaration 641 has been prepared in lieu of an Environ-
mental Impact Report.) (Continued from meeting of September 15,
1980. )
Stan Soo-Hoo presented this application on behalf of the Staff,
explaining that this item had been considered at the last meeting
and was continued because of confusion regarding locations of
properties involved, as well as the existing zoning and proposed
zoning. The Planning Commission directed that another mailing be
made to all property owners within 300 feet of the lots in question
and this has been done. They were again notified of the public
hearing and told specifically which properties were being con-
sidered for prezoning, what the motivation for the prezoning was
and also provided more specifics regarding the application. In
addition, a map was sent to the property owners to eliminate any
further confusion. As noted previously, the motivation for the
prezoning is to provide city sewer service to property owners
who are involved at their request. He further explained that this
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6, 1980
Page Nine
prezoning is a prelude to the annexation of the property into
the city of Orange in the future. He also pointed out that, as
noted at the last meeting, the R-1-40 zoning is comparable with
the existing County zoning of E4-1. So essentially what is
taking place is a change of jurisdiction only, since the proposal
and the existing zoning are identical.
Staff recommends that the Commission accept the findings of the
Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration 641 and
recommend approval of Pre-Zone Change 931.
Chairman Coontz opened the public hearing.
Edward Felix, Cypress, addressed the Commission on behalf of his
parents, who live at 11071 Orange Park Acres, stating that they
are in favor of going into the city of Orange, after reading the
information that they received. They feel that some of the area
could stand some upgrading and hopefully this step will suffice.
As he understands it, E4-1 and R-1-40 are approximately the same.
He understands that the sewer problems are the issue. They feel
this will be a good addition to the area.
There being no one else to speak for or against this application,
the Chairman closed the public hearing.
Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Hart to accept
the findings of the Environmental Review Board to file Negative
Declaration 641.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Ault, seconded by Commissioner Master to
recommend approval of Pre-Zone Change 931, for the reasons stated
by Staff.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS:
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1058, ZONE CHANGE 932, TENTATIVE
TRACT 11259 - MOHLER CORPORATION:
Request for change of zoning for portion of site from RD-6 to
RM-7 and to allow a 14 unit planned unit development on the east
side of Batavia Street, north of Chapman Avenue. (Note: Negative
Declaration 645 has been prepared in lieu of an Environmental
Impact Report.)
Stan Soo-Hoo presented this application on behalf of the Staff,
explaining that this is a request for a zone change for the
R-D-6 section of the property to R-M-7, and also a conditional
use permit and tentative tract in order to construct a 14 town-
house unit condominium complex. This property contains .88 acre
and is located on the east side of Batavia Street, approximately
293 feet north of Chapman Avenue. The site is presently made up
of three parcels, the one with frontage to Batavia Street con-
taining a residence, while the two others are "landlocked" and
are vacant. The former parcel is zoned RD-6 and the latter two
are zoned RM-7.
Mr. Soo-Hoo explained that the applicant is requesting approval
of a conditional use permit and tentative tract map to allow
development of a 14 unit planned unit development, as well as a
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6 , 1980
Page Ten
C
zone change for the parcel fronting on Batavia Street, in order
to change the zoning from RD-6 to RM-7 in order to have uniform
zoning throughout the site. ,Applicant is proposing to build ten
2-bedroom units and four 1-bedroom units, for a total of 14.
Parking wi 11 have 28 covered spaces and 4 open, for a total of
32 parking spaces. Proposed coverage of the property is 60%.
He pointed out that the access to the development would be via
Batavia Street. Emergency access would also be provided to a
private access easement north of the property to both Batavia
Street and Parker Street.
Mr. Soo-Hoo further pointed out that the General Plan designates
this area for high density residential development (15-24 dwelling
units per acre).
The Staff has evaluated this proposal and finds that it is
technically acceptable. Therefore, Staff recommends that the
Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 645.
Staff feels that the proposal is acceptable for the following
reasons
1. That predominant use in the area is that of multiple family
residences.
2. All development standards for a planned unit development in
a RM-7 zone are complied with.
3. The proposal is compatible with surrounding land use and
zoning.
4. The proposal is consistent with the General Plan.
Staff recommends approval of this project with the 14 conditions
listed in the Staff Report for the Conditional Use Permit and
also with the 7 conditions listed on the Engineer's Plan Check
Sheet.
Chairman Coontz opened the public hearing.
L~
Jim Van Tuyle, Santa Ana, architect representing the applicant,
Mohler Corporation, addressed the Commission in favor of this
application. He explained that they have taken a landlocked
parcel and have taken their access off of Batavia as the entrance.
They could have used Parker, but will be using th~.at as their
secondary access. He pointed out that there is compatible zoning
around this project. They feel that because on the north, east
and south sides of the property there are large open areas their
project will have no visual access to other housing.
He pointed out that this project is needed because of the growth
of the city. This will be more or less affordable housing. They
are not that far from the circle. He explained that they have met
all zoning requirements for RM-7. He also explained that it is
not economically feasible for this to be apartments.
There being no one else to speak for or against this application,
the Chairman closed the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6, 1980
Page Eleven
`#
Moved by Comm
to accept the
file Negative
AYES: Commissioners
NOES: Commissioners
ABSENT: Commissioners
issioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Ault
findings of the Environmental Review Board to
Declaration 645.
Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
none
none MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Ault
to recommend approval of Conditional Use Permit 1058, Zone
Change 932, Tentative Tract 11259, for reasons stated by Staff,
and subject to the 14 conditions set forth in the Staff Report
and the 7 conditions listed in the Engineer's Plan Check Sheet.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
At this point, Mr. Murphy requested that the Planning Commission
hear the Miller item under MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS out of order.
This was agreed upon.
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS
REVIEW OF REVISED PLANS FOR TENTATIVE TRACT 11087 and CONDITIONAL
USE PERMIT 1041 - GENE E. MILLER:
Stan Soo-Hoo presented this item on behalf of the Staff. He
pointed out that the applicant appeared before the Commission
on July 7, 1980 for consideration of a six unit condominium
proposal for property located on the south side of Collins
Avenue, east of Mallard Street. The key issue at that time was
the applicant's desire to exceed Code density limitations since
only five units were normally permitted for the site. The
Commission acted to recommend approval of the request to the
City Council.
~~
At the City Counci 1's meeting of August 19, 1980, the Counci 1
overruled the Commission's recommendation and denied the requested
variance for increased density, though a five unit project was
considered acceptable.
Mr. Soo-Hoo pointed out that the Commission had before them revised
plans which the applicant submitted reflecting five units on the
site. It would now be proper for the Commission to review this
proposal and forward applicable comments back to the City Council.
He explained to the Commission that the site plan has been com-
pletely modified to eliminate subterranean parking, the concept
now showing two clusters of buildings containing a total of five
units with parking provided off of a single driveway which bisects
the center of the site. All development standards have been
complied with.
Staff recommends that the Planning Commission find the revised
plan acceptable.
Moved by Commissioner Mickelson, seconded by Commissioner Master
to recommend approval of the revised plans for Tentative Tract
11087 and Conditional Use Permit 1041 to the City Council.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6, 1980
Page Twelve
Bill Dyer, who works with Gene E. Miller, applicant in this
project, stated that the architect tried to capture a residential
feeling that is not there. They worked with the Staff to see
what they could do with a five unit plan. They found that the
ground plane was short and the coverage was imposing a restriction
on their density for circulation. They went to the homeowners'
association to the east to see if they could use their common
drive for access, but a right angle drive pattern, which they
had on the previous plan, in going below grade allowed them the
parking requi cements . The homeowners' associ ati on next door
wouldn't even discuss allowing them the use of a common drive.
He explained that this morning they had met with the architect
and the landscape architect. The relief in the buildings from
the front of the street and to the center of the courtyard wi 11
not be as sterile as they appear to be on the plan. There will
be three detached buildings and one attached building. This is
unique because it allows a lot of air to circulate. There will
be a center courtyard.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS:
AMENDMENT 10-80 - CITY OF ORANGE:
Proposed amendment to Orange Municipal Code to establish height
limitations in the commercial zones.
Jere Murphy presented this amendment on behalf of the Staff.
He reviewed the request from the City Counci 1 and the study
which was done on commercial height limitations. He pointed
out that this study was requested by the City Council as a result
of high rise applications in the commercial zones where there are
presently inadequate or no Height regulations. The specific
project triggering this request was a six-story building proposed
for Katella Avenue, between Glassell and Tustin. He explained
that the report itself is quite in depth and discusses other
related matters to the subject of the request from the City
Council, including where high rise buildings might take place
in the city. He pointed out that this is a study in itself and
could be added to the list of studies that should be undertaken
by the Advance Planning Division. He thought that the other
subject that had not been discussed in any depth was the matter
f two story buildings in relation to being adjacent to residential
areas. This is also a separate study, which is directly related,
but yet a separate study.
He explained that the request here was to look at the general
height limit in the C-P, C-1, C-2 and C-3 zones. The study talked
about all four zones and covers the majority of commercial
property within the city of Orange.
Commissioner Hart commented about the area that was established
as a tourist zone.
Mr. Murphy pointed out that there is no immediate effect in placing
a 2-story limit in the C-P district right now, as the area zoned
C-P is almost completely developed. He pointed out that the
recommendation on the C-1, C-2 and C-3 zones is to establish a
bulk plane ratio of 1:4 measured to the nearest residential zone
and that the height limit of 30 feet can be exceeded only when
that ratio is met. He pointed out that one of the reasons for
recommending these standards is that Santa Ana is using the same
ratio. The existing high rise areas of Orange are adjacent to
Santa Ana's commercial areas, as well as the 4:1 ratio has worked
out quite well within the city of Santa Ana's recent experiences with
their high rise buildings.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 6, 1980
Page Thirteen
u
Chairman Coontz pointed out that another thing that this report
doesn't cover is public institutions. She mentioned the cultural
buildings at Chapman College as a case in point.
Commissioner Hart wondered in conditional use permit proceedings
how much engineering and architectural treatment would be needed
for the application.
Chairman Coontz pointed out that this is not as restrictive as
the one in Santa Ana where they even tell you what kind of trees
you can plant.
Chairman Coontz suggested that there be a divider page of a
different color in the report so that recommendations be separated
from other areas.
Chairman Coontz opened the public hearing. There being no one to
speak to this issue, the Chairman closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Master felt that the study was highly professional
and zeroed in on the problem and he complimented the Staff.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson
to recommend to the City Council to approve the establishment of
the following height regulations, as set forth by Staff in their
report.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS
MULTIPLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL DENSITY AND DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS
STUDY AND RECOMh1ENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson
to set this item up for study session on Monday, October 13,
1980, at 5:00 p.m.
By general consensus of the Commission, Staff was directed to
make a study of where high rise construction should be located
and the two-story residential areas.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned to October 13, 1980, at 5:00 p.m, by
Chairman Coontz at 10:00 p.m., and then to reconvene at 7:30 p.m.
on Monday, October 20, 1980 at the Ci vi c Center Counci 1 Chambers ,
300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange, California.
STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) AFFIDAVIT OF POSTING ORDER
SS. OF ADJOURNMENT
COUNTY OF ORANGE )
Jere Murphy, bei nq first duly sworn, deposes and says
That I am the duly chosen, qualified and acting secretary of the Planning
Commission of the City of Orange; that the regular meeting of the Planning
Commission of the City of Orange was held on October 6, 1980; said meeting
was ordered and adjourned to the time and place specified in the order of
adjournment attached hereto; that on October 7, 1980, at the hour of
2:00 p.m., I posted a copy of said order at a conspicuous place on or near
the door of the place at which said meeting of October 6, 1980 was held.
n
EXCERPT FROM THE MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE ORRNGE CITY PLANNING
COMMISSION HELD ON OCTOBER 6, 1980.
The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called to
order by Chairman Coontz at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Coontz, Ault, Hart, Master, Mickelson
ABSENT: None
Moved by Commissioner Mi ckelson, seconded by Commissioner Hart that this
meeting adjourn at 10:00 p.m. on Monday, October 6, 1980 to reconvene at
7:30 p.m. Monday, October 20, 1980 at the Civic Center Council Chambers,
300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange, California.
I, Jere Murphy, Secretary to the Orange Planning Commission, Orange,
California, do hereby ce rtify that the foregoing is a true, full and correct
copy of that portion of the minutes of a regular meeting of the Planning
Corrunission held on Monday, October 6, 1980.
Dated this 7th day of October, 1980 at 2:00 p.m.
re l~~urphy, City Planner & Secretary
the`; P1 anni ng Commis"s i on of t4~ e
ty of Orange.