HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/4/1985 - Minutes PCPLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
City of Orange
Orange, California
November 4, 1985
Monday, 7:30 p.m.
The regular meeting of the City of Orange Planning Commission was called to
order by Chairman Master at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek
STAFF John Lane, Administrator of Current Planning and Commission Secre-
PRESENT: tary; Jim Reichert, Associate Planner; Gene Minshew, Assistant
City Attorney; Gary Johnson, City Engineer;-and Toba V. Wheeler,
Recording Secretary.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: MINUTES OF OCTOBER 14, 1985
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Hart, that
the minutes of October 14, 1985, be approved as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MINUTES OF OCTOBER 21, 1985
Commissioner Mason pointed out that the words "municipal golf course"
in the next to last paragraph on page 2 should be "miniature golf
course." Moved by Commissioner Mart, seconded by Commissioner Mason,
that the minutes. of October 21, 1985;-be approved as corrected.
IN RE: ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN
CONDITLONAL USE PERMIT 1460 - SMITH
Proposed 749-unit mini-warehouse, and 71-room hotel on 2.14 acres
in the C-1 Zone on the east side of Wayfield Street, north from
Chapman Avenue and adjacent to the west side of the Costa Mesa (55)
Freeway. (Continued from the October 14 and October 21, 1985,-
Planning Commission meetings..)
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1024 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Lane said a letter had been received from Mr. Smith requesting
that this item be withdrawn from the agenda so that the property
might be reconfigured more in line with the conclusions of a market
survey that had been done and more in context with the desire of
the City of Orange.
. Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Two
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
this request be granted and .the item wi.thdr-awn from the agenda,
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTLON CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT .1432 - TOBERTY
Proposed five-story, 96,000-square foot office huia ding and two-level
park ing structure on 1.06 acres in the M-2 zone at the westerly
terminus of Struck Avenue, approximately 400 feet south from Katella
Avenue. (Continued from the September 16 and October 74, 7985,
Planning Commission meetings.)
NOTE: Negative Declaration 987 has been prepared for th is project.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff.Report
and said Staff is recommending approval subject to the 14 conditions
in its report plus an additional condition relating to a waterline
on the property which needs to be moved,
Chairman Master opened the public hearing. Chancy L,ott,-architect.,
18002 Collins, Irvine, said he had no problems with ..the Planning
Department conditions, including the 75th condition regarding the
change in location of the water line.
Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 987,
AYES: Commissioners Master,-Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
the Planning Oommission approve Conditiona~1 Use Permit-1432 subject
to the 75 conditions
AYES:. Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES.:. None
ABSENT:. Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Three
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
VARIANCE 1776 - FLOWER STREET ASSOCIATES
Proposed 45-foot-high freeway-oriented pole sign on 3.7 acres
presently under construction for a mini-warehouse facility generally
south from Almond Avenue, west from Flower Street, and adjacent
to the east side of the Orange (57) Freeway. (Continued from the
October 21, 1985, Planning Commissioner meeting.)
NOTE: This project is exempt from environmental review.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said Staff recomments approval subject to the two conditions in
its report. Commissioner Hart said he believed there was a policy
regarding freeway-oriented signs in which only those signs that
were tourist-oriented could be permitted on the freeway. He said
he personally didn't believe a sign advertising a mini-warehouse
would need to be on the freeway.
Chairman Master opened the public hearing. Dave Cunningham,
Flower Street Associates, 18002 Sky Park Circle, Irvine said the
location in question is no longer floating and discussion with:"
the Orange County Medical Association has finally focused upon a
location which is virtually equidistant from every property boundary,
as close to the freeway as possible, and as far away from other
contiguous uses as possible. He said the sign is being requested
because the building is so buried on the site, being 27 feet below
grade, and visibility is bad. Steve Prothero,-an architect repre-
senting Orange County Medical Association, said they have agreed
with Mr, Cunningham for a general locat"on for the sign, Commissioner
Mason asked if they had discussed height, because that is quite a
variance. Mr, Prothero said height had been discussed and although
they would like to see it lower they understood Mr, Cunningham's
position due to the site being buried under the freeway, and there-
fore were not voicing any objection to the height,
Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed. He said he
agreed with Commissioner Hart that the freeway-oriented signs
approved in the past, with the exception of one, had to do with
businesses that needed to attract tourists, and just because one
sign not in this category did get approved is not a reason for ahe
Planning Commission to make this mistake again.
Commissioner Mason questioned the Code on a sign being attached to
a building. Mr. Lane said a sign could not be painted vn the
building in this none-but an application could be made for it to
be done by a variance.. Commissioner Scott said it appeared to him
that a mini-warehouse would be local ~in nature whereas a freeway-
oriented sign would appear to be trying to attract people outside
the city, Commiss%oner Mason asked if a sign on the side of the
building would have to be reviewed by the Design Review Board and
Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Four
Mr. Lane responded that it would, as would a pole sign also.
Chairman Master asked if the applicant asked fora variance to
paint a sign on the bui~ding, would it have to be advertised
for public hearing. Mr. Lane said he believed it would not have
to be re-advertised if that is what the Planning Commission would
approve as a result of this hearing. Chairman Master asked Mr.
Cunningham if Flowen_Street Associates would consider other
signage than the pole sign. Mr. .Cunningham said they didn't see
many alternatives within the code and pointed out that although
they were more of a locally-oriented business rather than tourist-
oriented,-they were not located in the mainstream business area
and therefore had to have some means of making their position
visible. He said if the pole sign were not approved they would
have to accept something else, but it is their preference to
have the pole sign and, with the exception of OCMA`s objection,.
which has been resolved, there were not other objections on the
part of contiguous property owners.
Chairman Master said the Commission could entertain an alternate
motion and recommendation by Staff. Mr. Lane said if the Commission
is going to proceed fihat way he believes it would be in Mr. Cunning-
fiam`s interest to continue this item fora couple of weeks so he
'has the opportunity to determine what his needs might be in terms
of alternate signage. Mr. Cunningham said he felt a wall sign
would not really be visible from the freeway or that a roof sign
would be aesthetically acceptable even it it could be constructed
on'a roof that doesn`t slant, and he urged the Commission to
consider the pole sign, pointing out that there aren`t that many
buried sites contiguous to freeways that would result in this
type of variance being requested frequently. Commissioner Mason
said she believes there has to be some means of letting the public
know the mini-warehouse is there but she feels this can be done
by a wall sign..
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the application for Variance 1776 be denied.
Mr. Lane pointed out that if this application is denied, there is
a 15-day period in which the applicant can appeal to the City.
Council. Mr. Cunningham asked if, in the interest of expediency,
the matter could be continued instead of denied. Commissioners
Hart and Mason said it is agreeable with them to withdraw the
motion for denial and move for continuance instead.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the application for Variance 1776 be continued to the meeting of
November 18, 1985.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES:. None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIEQ
Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Five
Commissioner Hart said that in regard to the action of the Design
Review Board in changing the plot plan previously approved by the
Planning Commission, he would strongly recommend that the Planning
Commission write a letter to the City Council requesting that it
inform the Design Review Board of the scope of its responsibilities
and informing it that in the future it should not change a plot
plan that had been approved by the Planning Commission.. It was
agreed that Mr. Lane should draft such a letter for the approval
of the Planning Commission.
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
AMENDED CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1070 - OUR SAVIOR`S LUTHERAN CHURCH
Proposed addition of eight students and two staff personnel to an
existing pre-school in the R-1-6 Zone at the northwest corner of
Cambridge Street and Lomita Avenue. (Continued from the October 2~1,
1985, Planning Commission meeting.)
NOTE: This project is exempt from environmental review.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff. Report
and reviewed what ha a taken place at the October 21 meeting. He
said a letter and additional tape of the noise at the playground
had been submitted by Mrs. Verdon Craig, who had objected to the
application at the October 21 meeting and had at that time played
a tape of the playground noise. He said the second tape showed
that the noise had decreased in volume. Commissioner Hart said
he didn't feel it was necessary to hear the additional tape since
itrs not a scientific recording and he is satisfied that there is
playgound noise.. He said he visited the site twice during the
past week; on his first visit there were no children on the play
area and on the second visit there were 25 to 30 children and
there was noise. He said he doesn't really believe that the
issue is the additional eight students but rather what has gone
on since the pre-school was established and the proximity of the
Craig 'home to the playground,---and he wishes there was some way
that could be corrected, that there was some way the play area
could be relocated.. because he feels it is not in the right place.
He said that when the original plan was approved it may have been
a mistake in allowing the play area to be so close to the adjacent
residents. Commissioner Scott said he visited the site on several
occasions; at one time there were no children, a second time there
were 46 children and the third time there were 25 children. He
asked if the vacant property to the west of the playground was
owned by the church and if the playground could be moved to that
location. Commissioner Mason pointed out that the addition of
the eight students concerns infants who will not be using the
main playground and said she feels it does not refer to the noise
problem from the main playground.
Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Six
Chairman Master pointed out that there are perhaps two separate
issues and the Commission has made a review of the matter, and
suggested that the applicant, as a good neighbor, might come
up with a solution to the noise. He said he had been with Com-
missioner Scott on one of his visits to the site, and also
felt that the. vacant piece of property would be a better place
for the playground. Terry Hettig, 2873 East Gerald Circle,
Anaheim, Director of the pre-school, said that the lot~that
Commissioners Master and Scott feel would be a better playground
area is licensed for elementary school children and is used both
morning and afternoon for those children, and is therefore not
available to the pre-school children. She said the area on
which the Craig home and others are located was owned by the
church at one time. She said the church has been there for
over twenty years and before the pre-school was established,
the area was used for Head Start and children with special needs
® were there, so-there were children using the playground when
the Craigs bought their home. She said the pre-school had done
Q everything they possibly could as a good neighbor to keep Mrs.
Craig from being annoyed.by the children, such as building the
wall, planting the trees, moving the sandbox, etc. Chairman
Master asked if what she was saying was that she had no recom-
mendation for doing anything more than has been done, and Mrs.
Hettig said that was true, that they had done everything they
could do"to be a good neighbor.
Various persons whose children were in the preschool, added their
support to Mrs. Hettig`s statements: Tom Tisnot,-5928 Bunker Hill,
Orange; Walter Caldwin, 4244 East Addington, Anaheim; Karen Butler,--
725 East Barkley, Orange; and John Barnhart., 323 East 0akmont,~Orange.
Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
Amended Conditional Use Permit 1070 be approved.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES:. None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Chairman Master pointed out to the applicant that the existing
condition should be considered from the standpoint of being a
good neighbor and anything the pre-school could do to lower the
noise level would be a step in the right direction. He said
there is a County code covering noise and if someone complains
about the noise, abatement proceedings could be undertaken.
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1468, VARIANCE 1777 - TRU VALU INNS, INC.
Proposed three-story, 32-unit motel within 120 feet of residentially
Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Seven
zoned property, and afive-foot-high fence and swimming pool deck
within the required front yard area, on a 15,464-square foot parcel
in the C-3 Zone on the east side of Main Street,-156 feet north
from Palmyra Avenue.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1027 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said Staff recommends denial of both the conditional use permit
and the variance for the reasons stated in it`s report; however, if
the Commission feels the proposed. use is appropriate, then Staff
recommends continuance to the meeting of November 18, 1985.
Chairman Master opened the public hearing. Ken Paddock, Paddock &
Flair Architects, 17780 Fitch, Suite 180, Irvine, representing the
applicant, addressed Staff's reasons for recommending denial. He
said a motel is a p+arrmitted use in the C-3 Zone and that landscaping
and other measures would be taken to minimize the noise level. He
said the building was designed to blend into a residential area and
made some suggestions for changes in design that could be performed
if the Planning Commission wished.
Mr. Lane said he doesn't feel that Staff is imposing hardships but
that the developer is creating his own hardships by the design he
proposes to develop. Mr. Paddock said he doesn`t think the question
is one of hardship, that his interpretation of the zoning code is
that he is allowed to build the development he proposes.
Discussion between the Commissioners and Mr. Paddock followed on
the fence, the pool area, and the alley behind the proposed devel-
opment which the, developer proposes to .widen by ten feet,-making
it 25 feet .wide and permitting it to have two-way traffic. It was
pointed out that it would be impossible to widen the al°ley all the
way to Bush Street because of existing residences. Charles Tsang;
12055 Ashwood Street, Artesia,-the applicant,-said they did not
intend to create a hardship,-~as the Staff Report
indicated. He said they want to build sometning that will be in
.harmony with the surrounding community.,-:"but to make the development
economically feasible they must have 32 units, Mr. lane said Staff
thinks there is too much being attempted to place on the property;
it just doesn`t work functionally based on the code requirements,
He said the developer has a need for 32 units and is trying to make
32 units fit and it`s just not working. Commissioner Hart asked
why they must have 32 units to make the motel economically feasible.
Mr. Tsang explained that their motel rooms are moderately priced
and in order to make. the development pay they cannot spend more
than $10,000 in land costs per unit; therefore, based on what this
land cost, they must build 32 units. Commissioner Hart pointed
out that the Planning Commission is not allowed to take into
consideration the land costs in relation to a hardship because if
the developer paid too much for the land, that is his problem, not
the City's problem,
Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Eight
Pauline Lehman, 228 South Bush, Orange, said she felt that if the
alley were to be widened it would increase vehicular traffic that
would be detrimental to the welfare of the children attending the
elementary school located on Bush Street. She said also that
having a motel in the area would disturb the privacy of the people
in the adjacent residential area. Commissioner Hart asked Mrs.
Lehman how she would react in the event this application were
denied and another application came in for the site for an office
building that would generate the same amount of traffic. She said
sne woulaalso object to that use for the same reasons. Commissioner
Hart said it-might be well if the Commission considered blocking off
the alley .because he could see no real purpose for having it. Mrs.
Lehman agreed. Mr. Johnson pointed out that Bush Street is a dead-end
street and the alley provides a means for people who wish to turn
around because Bush is not a cul-de-sac; secondly, the drainage from
Bush Street turns and goes westerly on the alley. He said those
two things have perpetuated the use of the alley; in fact, it was
upgraded last year..
Chairman Master dea~ared the publib_hearing closed.
Commissioner Scott said fie was not only concerned about the use of
the alley but also about the location of the trash bin as shown on
the plans. He said he thinks the matter should be referred to the
Traffic Safety Division and come up with. a recommendation as to how
the alley could be treated, He pointed. out that an office building
could be erected on the site without the use of the alley. Commissioner
reason said she definitely thinks that a motel. use in this area is
very good, especially with a hospita'1 in the area;-however, she
would like to see it redesigned to meet all of .the requirements.
Mr, Lane sa id if the Commission is looking upon the application
favorably then Staff would need time to prepare the necessary
conditions and therefore a continuance would be necessary.
Chairman Master reopened the public hearing.
Mr. Paddock commented that an office building could have only two
stories and be within the code height limit whereas a motel could
have three stories and still be within that height limit. Commis-
sinner Mason said that according to the Staff Report the proposed
development is trying to fill every inch of the property and she
thinks it is the bulk and the design that is llusti~not compatible
with this area, and that is what she is concerned about.
Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed..
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of ,the EnYironmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 1027.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
V ~ November 4, 1985
Page Nine
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Master, that
the ~ppl~ i cacti on ~ be crontinued to the
meeting of December 2, .1985.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason., Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Chairman Master requested that the applicant and Staff meet to
• redesign the plans, taking into consideration the location of the
trash container and other matters relating to the alleyway, the
fencing and the setback.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Hart, that
Staff look into the feasibility of possibly vacating Palmyra Place
or blocking it at the "T" intersection with the other alley that
would prohibit multiple ingress and egress to and from Main Street,
and that this study be presented to the Planning Commission prior
to its December 2, 1985, meeting.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1472, VARIANCE 1779 - LLVINGSTONE
Proposed second-story living unit over a three-year garage,-and an
attached carport within the side yard setback area, on a 6,$40-
square foot parcel in tfie RD-6 ~RCD) Zone at the southwest corner
of Palmyra Avenue and Grand Street.
NOTE: This project is exampt from environmental review.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff. Report
and said Staff recommends approval subject to the conditions in its
report,
Chairman Master opened the public hearing.
John Killen, 271 South Grand Street,-Orange,-architect representing
the applicant, said he is in agreement with the recommendations from
Sdta~f ar~d has no gbjections t~ the conditions. Chairman Master
ec are: the public hearing c osed.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded. by Commissioner Hart, that
Conditional Use Permit 1472 be approved subject to the conditions
in the Staff Report.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT:. Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
November 4, 1985
Page Ten
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Scott,-that
yari~nce 1779 be'approved subject to the conditions in the Staff
Report.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Hart,--Mason, Scott,
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: OTHER BUSINESS
Chairman Master asked if the other commissioners had had an oppor-
tunity to review the memo from Staff on the parking standards.
Commissioner Scott commented that at the study session w~~th the
Santa Ana Planning Commission he learned that Santa Ana had come
up with one parking stall that was uniform and served both compact
and standard-size cars. He said he felt that would be worth
looking into.
~ Commissioner Mason said she had never received a copy of the revised
map for the amendment to the redevelopment area which had been
promised. Mr. Lane said he would convey a reminder on this.
Chairman Master said he met with Ron Thompson, Bert Yamasaki and
John Lane regarding receiving full information from the redevelop-
ment agency. He said they-have proposed that on the day of the 2na
Planning Commission meeting each month, there will be a meeting
with the redevelopment people at 6:30 p.m. that will last for
about 45 minutes.
Commissioner Mason suggested that the Orange Planning Commission
have an agenda with a cover sheet for its meetings similar to that
used by the Santa Ana Planning Commission. Mr. Line said he would
come up with something for the Commission`s approval.
Mr. Lane commented that there has been a reporter from the orange
City News in attendance in order to evaluate the Planning Commission
in action from the standpoint of what it does and why it does it,
and that there will be an article about the Planning Commission
published in this newspaper.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 10:15 p.m., to reconvene at a regular
meeting on November l8, 19.857 at the Civic Center Council Chambers,
300-East Chapman Avenue, Orange,-California.
0