HomeMy WebLinkAbout12/3/1984 - Minutes PC• L
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City of Orange
Orange, California
December 3, 1984
Monday, 7:30 p.m.
The regular meeting of the City of Orange ~Rlanning Commission was called to
order by Chairman Hart at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason, Master
ABSENT: None
STAFF John Lane, Administrator of Current Planning and Commission Se-
PRESENT: cretary; Jim Reichert,. Associate Planner; Gene Minshew, Assistant
City Attorney; Bob Von Schimmelman, Senior Civil Engineer; and
Toba V. Wheeler, Recording Secretary
'- ~
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
ZONE CHANGE 1021 - GALBRAITH
Proposed rezoning of 2.77 acres from A-1 (Agricultural) to C-1
(Limited Business) on the west side of Newport Boulevard, approx-
imately 330 feet south from Chapman Avenue. (This item. was con-
tinued from the November 19 Planning Commission meeting.)
NOTE: !Negative Declaration 937 has been prepared for this item.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and siad Staff recommends approval.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing open.
Milton J. Galbraith, 340 North Newport Boulevard, the applicant
spoke in support of his application.
'``` Robert Bennyhoff, 10642 Mirada Drive, speaking in behalf of the
-'- homeowners in Orange Park. Acres, said they oppose this application
~1 very strenuously on the grounds that it violates their understanding
of what the City Council said about this property at the time it
approved the building of the adjacent Irvine Ranch Market, and they
are putting the-Planning Commission on notice that they will actively
oppose this.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner f~lason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
Planning
December
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AYES:
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IN RE
Commission Minutes
3, 1984
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 937.
Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason, Master
None MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Greek, that
the Planning Commission approve Zone Change 1021.
Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason, Master
None
NEW HEARINGS
PRE-ZONE CHANGE 1022 - FAN OUT COMPANY
MOTION CARRIED
Zone Change from County of Orange R-4 to City of Orange R-D-6 on
.52 acres situated at the southwest corner of Bixby and Palm.
NOTE: This project is exempt from environmental review.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said the applicant proposes to develop a seven-unit condominium
on the two parcels of the peoperty, said proposal being within the
requirements of County of Orange ~-4 zoning as well as City of
Orange R-D-6 zoning.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing open.
In response to a query from Chairman Hart, the applicant said he
agreed with the conditions in the Staff Report. Monte G. Hoefger,
3002 North Fairbairn, Orange, asked if the proposed development
would be condominiums or duplexes and was told it would be condo-
miniums. Chairman Hart explained that R-D-6 allowed for duplexes
but since the size of the property would not allow duplexes, the
developer had decided upon condominiums. Mr. Hoefger said he
thought there were three parcels making up the property, not two.
The applicant explained that there were only two parcels but one
of them contained two lots, so there were actually three lots.
Fred Vincent, 3001 North Fairbairn, asked about proposed garages.
Chairman Hart replied that the site plan was not being discussed
at this hearing and that at such time as a site plan would be
submitted, it would come up before the Design Review Board at a
different hearing. He also said that this was not exactly a zone
change since the applicant was not asking to do anything different
from what he could do with the property if it remained in the
County .but was merely requesting annexation to the City. Commis-
. sinner Greek explained that the same building could be built on
that lot whether it would stay in the County or come into the City
and all that was being requested was a change from the County zoning
designation to a City zoning designation to allow the property to
be annexed to the City.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 3, 1984
Page Three
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Master, that
the Planning Commission approve Pre-Zone Change 1022.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason,~Master
NOES: None
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1381 - ORANGE COAST FORD TRACTOR
Proposed retail sales of tractors and equipment in the M-2 zone
on .1.08 acres situated on the south side of Katella approximately
850 feet west from Main Street.
® NOTE: This project is exempt from environmental review.
Mr.-Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said that the applicant wishes to establish his business in an
already existing industrial building presently used by an electric
company. He said Staff feels this proposed business is suited to
® the area and recommends approval subject to the conditions in its
report.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing open.
Dean Cook, 1830 East Warner, Santa Ana, general manager and president
of Orange Coast Ford Tractor, the applicant, said he has no qualms
about Staff recommendations except Special Condition No. 1 regarding
screening of outdoor storage areas. He said he feels that the area
wi11 be in better condition after he moves in than it is now and
because of the danger of such vandalism that is already rampart at
his other business sites, it is necessary to have visibility into the
property yard. He asked that he be allowed to install low-hedge
shrubbery at the front of the property. Chairman Hart said that
that issue would be addressed by the Design Review Board, as stated
in Special Condition No. 1.
James Potter, 1749 North Greengrove, Orange, owner of the property
which will be rented by Mr. Cook, questioned Standard Condition
No. 7 regarding a fire protect ion system, and on-site water for fire
flow, and asked if that means he wi11 have to provide a sprinkler
system. Commissioner Greek pointed out that the condition states
that the fire codes mad require an on-site fire hydrant, sprinklers
andlor smoke detectors, and it is merely putting him on notice that
there may be some restrictions made by the fire department once the
building is developed for its new usage. He suggested that Mr. Cook
meet with the fire department to ascertain what its requirements
wi 11 be.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 3, 1984
Page Four
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing closed.
Commissioner Greek said he had a problem accepting the special
conditions in relation to the applicant's business as a sales yard
for which he would have to be able to display his merchandise and
have visibility from the street. Mr. Lane said that Special Condi-
tion No. l has been standard as long as he can remember and it's up
to the Design Review Board to decide how it is applied, he feels
Special Condition No. 2 is intended to mean that the applicant will
not put his merchandise on display on the public street, and he
thinks Special Condition No. 3 is not enforceable as it is because
it doesn't require any apporval and he feels the Public Works De-
partment would be the one to say whether or not-the paving is
adequate. Chairman Hart said he thinks the special conditions
are probably standard industrial conditions, not commercial.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit-1381 with the
deletion of Special Conditions Nos. 1, 2 and 3.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason, Master
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1383 - BUI
Proposed. trade and educational school in the M-2 zone on .87 acres
situated at the southeast corner of Batavia and Struck.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 942 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said Staff recommends approval.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing open.
Applicant Ton Bui, 1529 West Palmyra, Orange, said he had no problems
with the conditions in the Staff Report except for the special condi-
tion limiting the number of students. Chairman Hart asked Mr. Lane
if there would be a limit placed on the number of employees allowed
if this were a manufacturing facility rather than a school. Mr. Lane
responded that there would not be a limit in that case.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of-the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 942.
AYES:. Commissioners Hart, Greek,. Mason, Master
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
December 3, 1984
Q Page Five
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Master, that
the Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit 1383 subject
to the Standard Conditions contained in the Staff Report but with
the deletion of the Special Condition.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason, Master
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 10-84 -CITY OF ORANGE
An amendment to the Zoning Ordinance deleting Section 17.42.040(J)
from the Orange Municipal Code which allows residential use in the
commercial districts subject to Conditional Use Permit approval.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 938 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said that if there is a concern on the part of the Planning
Commission as to this proposed amendment and it raises a question
as to mixed use, he would recommend that it be sent back to Staff
to look into that aspect of the problem further and perhaps offer
some additional suggestions in order to accommodate that kind of
mixed use.
Chairman Hart said he likes the possibility of mixed use as is done
with the antique dealers who are located in residences, and he thinks
it is a compatible use. Commissioner Greek agreed, saying that there
are p1 aces in the .City where residential and commercial uses could
be allowed in the same area. He said he didn't read this proposed
amendment as a way to rezone property but as a way to allow store
owners to live over their stores in the downtown areas. Commissioner
Master said he has a concern that goes back to what happened in The
City Shopping Center. He said he thinks there was a major erosion
of commercial property and the Planning Commission is now concerned
with problems that were allowed to happen. He said he wasn't com-
fortable with what was done when apartments and duplexes were
allowed on commercial property and he still has a reservation about
it. He said he thinks the process of requiring an amendment, formal
as it is, allows the Planning Commission an element of influence,
not control but influence, that things won't get out of hand.
Chairman Hart pointed out that the Planning Commission at its last
meeting approved the use of mini-warehouses in a residential zone by
conditional use permit, and there is no difference in this case.
Commissioner Master said he thinks there is a difference because
mini-warehouses are a transitional thing. He said he does not look
upon them as a permanent development but rather the best use of the
land at the time, land that cannot be justified for more intense
development. He said he thinks this is a situation which is uniquely
® Pl~r~ning Commission Meeting
December 3, 1984
Page Six
different .from mini-storage because it deals with permanent
structures. He said he has a problem with this amendment as
it impacts any other major commercial area. :Commissioner
Greek said the way he interprets this proposed amendment and
the way he would like to see it used is he would like to see
the basic land use be commercial but with the option to allow
residential usage. Commissioner Master said he-has no prob-
lem with that. Commissioner Greek said-he thinks what happen-
ed at the City Shopping Center was totally a case of economics,
the they built those residential units originally with a
twenty-year life span and fully intended to tear them down and
build high-rise units later.
Chairman Hart said he and Commissioner Greek were thinking along
the same lines about joint use, that they want the flexibility
of mixes use. He asked Commissioner Mason for her opinion and
she said she agrees with the concept of people living where
their business is as it will keep them off the freeways and off
the streets, which is another problem. Chairman Hart asked
Mr. Lane if staff could work something out based upon the com-
ments just made by the Planning Commission members.
Mr. Lane requested clarifiaction of Commisioners Master's pos-
ition. He said that Commissioner Master said he had no prob-
lems with the proposed .amendment yet from the way he is speak-
ing he appears to support it because the .amendment will deleter
residential apartments as a use permitted by Conditional Use
Permit is a commercial zone. He said i :couldn't just be done,
a rezoning and general plan amendment would have to be obtained
first. He said he thinks what Commissioner Master is saying is
that he doesn't like to see a property owner use commercial prop-
erty for apartments. if that happens to be his particular desire
at the moment. He asked Commisioner Master if that wasn't what
he said, using the CityShopping Center as an example and the
apartments at the northwest of that property. Commissioner Mas-
ter said those particular units were built prior to his being
appointed to the PYanra.ng Commission and he didn't know tahat was
commerci.a] property. He said he was thinking of }ater on when
concern was expressed that the City Shopping Center needed add-
itional markets and one of the. ways to get it was to put more
residential around it. M~: Lane said that under the present cod e
they could come in and apply for a Conditional Use Permit for
apartments.
Mr. Lane said that what the code now says is that commercially
zoned property also has a right to multiple-family subject to the
R-M-7 zoning designation which is apartment standards, if they
choose to go that way, and what is being discussed now is which
is it--commercial- or multiple family. He said that in a sense,
Staff thinks it is right, but in the sense in which Commissioners
Hart and Greek are thinking, Staff thinks they are right also.
He said there should
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Planning Commission Minutes
December 3, 1984
Page Seuen
be the opportunity for mixed use in the Old Town area and so
forth.. He said a good example would be the treasury property
and the Planning Commission will be having the hearing soon
on a zone change on that property to change the zone from
commercial to multiple family to-allow an apartment project,
and to Staff that's the proper way to go. He said it could
be argued by the applicant that he doesn't want a zone change
he just wants to file a Conditional Use Permit and get the
apartments, but the reaosn Staff :filed a zone change was be-
cause the general plan shows commercial there and it's zoned
commercial and Staff is trying to eliminate confusion.
Commissioner Master asked what is the purpose of this proposed
amendment. Mr. Lane said becuase`now there is an R-M-7 zone
which is an apartment zone and if the property is`zoned
R-M-7, apartments can be developed. He said the Code also
has a C-l limited Business Zone but the Code says that in that
C-1 Zone, R-M-7 can also be done by.Co~ditional Use Permit in
the C-1 Zone, so theoretically if that commercial zone were
approved an owner could apply fior a Conditional Use Permit to
build apartments on the property the way the Code presently
reads. He said Staff feels that should be taken out of the
Code so that if something is zoned commercial it should be
developed for commercial usage.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Mason,
that the Planning Commission return Ordinance Amendment 10-8
to .Staff for clarification in accordance with the foregoing
discussion.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason, Master
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MEETING WITH FIRE DEPARTMENT; DISCUSSION RE DEPARTMENT APPROVALS
Chairman Hart said that an off-agenda item to be discussed was
® the problem brought up at the last meeting of a breakdown in
communications between the Planning Commission-and the Fire
Department. He said he, Mr. Lane and Mr. Minshew~met with
Fire Chief Martel Thompson and Battalion Chief Flaherty. He
said that apparently the Planning Commission request had been
overlooked and said the Fire Department will :try to work closer
with the Planning Commission in the future.
Commissioner Greek said it had been brought to his attention that
there was a policy in the past of having department heads sign
the tentative tract maps, and asked if it was reasonable to
ask each department head to give the Planning Commission a re-
spouse so it would be apparent that the map had been reviewed
Chairman Hart said it was always his assumption that department
heads had signed the maps before transmittal to the Planning
Commission.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 3, .1984
Page Eight
Mr. Lane said that on tentative tract maps there was a sig-
nature block and that system was supposed to be intact but
it seems to have gone the way. of a lot of good ideas; how-
ever he recalls more than one occasion where the City Council
specifically asked if the signature black had been signed by
all departments,. and in some cases where there was contra-
versy, the maps had not been signed by all departments. He
said his feeling is that if there is dissent the Planning
.Commission :should know it; but it should be worked out at
Staff level if at all possible before going to the Planning
Commission.
Chairman Hart said that if there's a disagreement between a
.City department and the applicant it should come to the Plan-
ning Commission as an open disagreement and it would be im-
portant that it be publicly discussed. Commissioner Greek
agreed and said Staff should be enforcing .the Code and the
Planning Commission should be recommending to the City Council
the conditions that it thinks are standard. Mr. Lane said
that what concerns him about this is if it is a technical mat-
ter there really shouldn't be any question between the devel-
oper and an operating department, but unfortunately sometimes
they get into policy over it and that's where the problem
arises. Commissioner Greek said if there's a condition that's
technical enough that the applicant has a question or concern
he should be allowed somewhere in the process to question that
condition instead of being told that according to the Code he has
to do what he is told to do.
Chairman Hart asked if there is a check sheet used by the Planning
Department and Mr. Lane responded`that`he can assure him that the
Planning Department has looked at the map. Commissioner Greek
said he thinks there should be a letter in the file that will enable
the Planning Commission to know whether or not something is re-
quired of the applicant by a City department. Mr. Lane said he
is in favor of written comments when something is said and he feels
the system needs to be tightened up.
® Mr. Lane informed the Planning Commission .that regarding Tentative
Tract 10653, Conditional Use Permit 1376, the developer did sub-
mit a revised map. as requested by the Planning Commission at the
last meeting, and this map will be forwarded to the Planning
Commission in its next packet. He said the matter will come be-
fore the City Council at its hearing on January 11, 198.5.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m. to reconvene to a regular
meeting on Monday, December 17, 1984 at 7:30 p.m. at the Civic
Center Council Chambers, 300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange, California