HomeMy WebLinkAbout12/4/1989 - Minutes PCPLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
City of Orange December 4, 1989
Orange, California Monday - 7:00 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
ABSENT: None
STAFF
PRESENT: Joan Wolff, Sr. Planner and Commission Secretary;
John Godlewski, Administrator of Current Planning;
Jack McGee, Director of Community Development;
Bob Herrick, Assistant City Attorney;
Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 20, 1989
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Minutes of November 20, 1989 be approved as
corrected: Page 3, paragraph 3, second sentence changed to
read: "They discussed lots with slopes in excess of 5 feet,
but distance was not clarified and it should be."
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
Chairman Bosch was excused from the meeting due to a
potential conflict of interest. Vice Chairman Hart
conducted the hearing.
TENTATIVE TRACT MAP 14054, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1796-89,
ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUSTMENT 40-89 - PULTE HOME CORPORATION:
A Tentative Tract Map application to allow the subdivision
of one 11 acre parcel of land into 147 attached single
family condominium units, a Conditional Use Permit to allow
the creation of lots without frontage on a public street,
and an Administrative Adjustment to allow a one-foot
reduction in garage parking space width. Project is located
northeast of the intersection of White Oak Ridge and Canyon
View Avenue, and is also known as Lot 18 of Tract 12417,
Santiago Hills.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1321-89 has been prepared for
this project.
There was no public opposition and a staff report was not
presented.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 4, 1989 - Page 2
The public hearing was opened.
Applicant
Craig Johnson, President of Pulte Home Corporation, 3822
Vista Blanca, San Clemente, introduced their project. and the
project manager pointed out its features on the wall
exhibits. The project is located on the northeast corner of
White Oak Ridge Road and Canyon View. They are proposing
147 units on 11 acres of land. This falls below the
allowable use of the parcel in that 165 units could have
been planned. The units will be two story over a partially
tucked under garage and will be grouped in building clusters
of 5, 6 or 8 units surrounding an auto court. The main
entry to the units will be off a greenbelt on the opposite
side of the auto court. Garages will not be visible from
the street. The project will be beautifully landscaped with
greenbelt areas, meandering walks, community pool and spa,
two tot lot play areas and a terrace fountain entry way.
The auto courts will be landscaped. A fountain will be
provided in each auto court. The project has been well
planned for parking. They have provided 66 guest spaces,
which exceeds the required 29 spaces by 37 spaces. They
have also provided two car garage parking for each unit,
which exceeds the Upper Peters Canyon Specific Plan
requirement. In terms of noise, they conducted a study and
provide the following mitigation: A 6 to 6 1/2 foot
perimeter wall will be provided along Canyon View to meet
the 65 CNEL exterior noise standard. The balconies that are
impacted by directly facing on Canyon View Road will be
constructed with a 5 1/2 foot combination wall and 1/4 inch
glass to meet the same 65 CNEL exterior noise standard. The
buildings all meet the 45 CNEL interior noise standard
through the inclusion of air conditioning.
Commissioner Greek requested more specific details. When
talking about a 6 1/2 foot wall along Canyon View, where can
he look at a plan to get a feeling for where it is so that
he can understand it. Do any of the plans show that wall?
(The plans were included in the Noise Package, Exhibit 2,
after Page 4.) Commissioner Greek requested an extra copy
because he did not get one.
Jess Harris, Land Plan Design Group, 34 Executive Park,
Irvine, said there was a perimeter wall around three sides
of the development with an open view fence along the trail
way. The perimeter wall matches the standard throughout the
community and is designed roughly between 6 and 6 1/2 feet.
It is located on the perimeter of the site at the top of the
slope. There is a landscaped parkway which varies in width
that is being provided by the master developer in
conformance with the overall Specific Plan. The wall is to
create a boundary or edge for the development.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 4, 1989 - Page 3
Commissioner Greek asked which one was the site plan.
Mr. Harris pointed out the site plan and said it looks like
a 30 foot minimum distance between the back of curb of the
street, Canyon View, and the perimeter wall. Then, a
minimum distance of 20 feet to the building setback for a
total of 50 feet from curb to building. If you look closely
at the plan, there is a slope that curves about for half the
distance of Canyon View from the west portion to the central
portion. Then it levels out with the parkway.
Commissioner Greek questioned the slope shown on the site
plan? Are they to assume it does not exist?
Mr. Harris said the site plan is identifying a slope on the
western portion. That would occur within the parkway. But
the actual wall would be on the top of the slope.
Essentially, when you're inside the development, the wall
would be measured from that height.
Commissioner Greek had concerns because the top of slope was
not consistent. There were no dimensions for the wall from
setback nor from the property line. It's a guessing game.
He would like to see some dimensions.
Roger Wilcox, Keith Companies, 200 Baker Street, Costa Mesa,
explained the top of slope shown along Canyon View Avenue
(western portion towards White Oak Ridge) will remain. With
the on site grading towards Old Camp Road, it will bring the
elevation to join in at the property line elevation. At
that point there will not be a wall at the top of slope; it
will be at parkway elevation. They will not do any grading
within the public right-of-way.
Commissioner Greek referred to the grading plan. It shows a
top of curb of 48.2. What is the property line grade?
(approximately 49) What will the top of the wall be at that
point? (55 1/2) So you will have 6 feet on the low side?
(yes) At that point the finished side will be approximately
4 feet above that. You're going to end up having a wall.
that is 2 1/2 feet above the finished floor. He was trying
to figure out. the plan and wished for more complete
information in order to determine the proposed
grades/existing grades.
Commissioner Hart expressed the concern that at some points
the wall only appears to be about 2 feet high.
Commissioner Greek still would like detailed information
(i.e., location of the wall with some dimensions on it,
maybe a few grades) to stay away from some problems that
already exist out there.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 4, 1989 - Page 4
Mr. Wilcox and Commissioner Greek discussed grades,
elevations, height of the walls and finished floor area
because of the overall elevation in relation to the street
scape.
Mr. Johnson would be happy to provide detailed drawings of
the height minimums on the inside walls and would work with
staff on the cross sections. Their intention is to have the
wall work at 6 to 6 1/2 feet all the way around the
perimeter where it exists as a closed wall.
Commissioner Greek was having trouble matching the
architectural plans of elevations with the grading plan. The
detailed plan indicates a garage elevation of 9 feet. The
grading plan shows 7 feet. Each pad shows a finished floor
elevation. They looked at the conceptual grading plan and
discussed the drawing as it related to finished grade and
garage height.
Commissioner Scott referred to Page 7, Project
Determination, Item 2, CC&R's shall state that all garages
must be maintained so that two cars can be parked within the
garage at all times - he assumed the homeowner's association
would enforce this condition. Item 6, There shall be "No
Parking Anytime - Tow Away" restrictions on the Old Camp
Road cul-de-sac as required by the Traffic Engineering
Division - assumed this would be a police action. He wanted
it put with the CC&R's if possible. It was a dedicated
street so it could not be part of the CC&R's. Item 10,
Decorative paving shall be used in the auto courts - he
assumed they were private streets. Regarding easements, if
anyone had to go in and tear it up, they should not be
required to replace with decorative paving. Initial cost is
reasonable, but if a gas or water line needed to be
replaced, it would escalate dramatically to replace the
decorative paving.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Master was not sure how they could condition
the wall.
Commissioner Greek referred to Condition 17, but he was not
sure if that was what the applicant was intending to put in.
Mr. Johnson had anticipated that the conditions would be
addressed through Design Review.
Commissioner Greek was concerned with the wall where you can
step into the back yards (it already exists; it's an error
in the design they approved) and the elevation of_ the
building adjacent to the roadways. He has a problem
figuring out the roof line elevations. He cannot tell from
the documents he has, nor can he understand it.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 4, 1989 - Page 5
Commissioner Hart stated restrictions could be placed in the
motion as to what the maximum height should be above the top
of the curb.
Dimensions of the project were stated pertaining to the roof
height and elevations. The average overall height on the
visible side of the street is 23 feet 10 inches.
Ms. Wolff explained the way the height is measured by the
zoning code is the average height between the deck line and
peak of the r oof .
Commissioner Greek asked if the applicant could live with a
condition that the roof line be no higher than 35 feet above
the top of curb and measured perpendicular to the roof line.
The applicant is willing to accept that condition as a
requirement for approval.
Commissioner Hart asked about the concern of the block wall;
that it be consistently 6 feet high rather than dropping
down. The question is the height from where? From the high
grade side.
Ms. Wolff pointed out a memo was attached to the noise
study, dated November 29, 1989. There were three additional
conditions included: (1) relates to the height of the wall
and ties it into the noise study. Staff's recommendation is
that it comply with the noise mitigation conditions.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner
Greek, that the Planning Commission accepts the findings of
the Environmental Review Board that EIR 868 has been
certified for Master Tract 12417 and has addressed the
potential impacts of the project, and that there is no
substantial evidence that the proposed project will have a
significant impact on the environment and file Negative
Declaration 1321-89.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Bosch MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Master asked if both conditions 17 and 19 were
required?
Commissioner Greek felt if both were left in, it would take
care of the perimeter along the horse trails {security
fencing) and the other for sound barriers. Fencing was for
two different functions.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 4, 1989 - Page 6
IN RE:
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner
Scott, that the Planning Commission recommend the City
Council to approve Tentative Tract Map 14054, Conditional
Use Permit 1796-89 and Administrative Adjustment 89-40, with
the revisions to the conditions under 17 - perimeter fencing
shall be of a non-climbable design, minimum 6 feet in height
above highest grade, and the added conditions 19, 20 and 21
from the memorandum regarding noise analysis, pertaining to
the Tentative Tract. Also, add a condition that the roof
line shall not be higher than 35 feet from top of curb,
measured at a right angle from the building opposite the
curb along Canyon View and White Oak. And, under condition
10 - any decorative paving replacement shall be borne by the
homeowner's association.
AYES: Commissioners
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner
Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
Bosch
MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Greek asked about bonding requirements?
Gary Johnson addressed
not have a bond cover
dedicated to the City.
occupancy until those
the land will make t
not be that much value.
the issue of bonds. The City would
any improvements that were not to be
Basically, they hold units back for
improvements are made. The value of
hose units get built. The bond would
Commissioner Greek was concerned that the units are not
stranded and that the City does not have any liability from
an incomplete project.
MISCELLANEOUS
Ms. Wolff added one additional item. At the last Planning
Commission meeting, November 20, 1989, the Commissioners
took action on the Grading Ordinance. At that time, the
Negative Declaration was reviewed, but a vote was not taken.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Master,
that the Planning Commission accept the findings of the
Environmental Review Board to file Negative Declaration
1286-89 (regarding the Grading Ordinance).
AYES: Commissioners
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner
IN RE: OTHER ITEMS
Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
Bosch
MOTION CARRIED
A study session will be held December 11, 1989 concerning
the former Santiago Golf Course site.
Planning Commission Minutes
December 4, 1989 - Page 7
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission attend the study
session, December 11, 1989 at 5:00 p.m. in the Weimer Room
to discuss the former Santiago Golf Course site.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Bosch MOTION CARRIED
The Commission requested staff to make an oral presentation.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
There would not be a quorum at the regular meeting of
December 18, 1989; therefore, it is rescheduled for December
27, 1989.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Greek,
that the Planning Commission adjourn to the meeting of
December 27, 1989, 6:30 p.m. study session; 7:00 p.m.
regular meeting.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Bosch MOTION CARRIED
The meeting adjourned at 8:20 p.m.
/sld