HomeMy WebLinkAbout2/17/1988 - Minutes PC
,~«~, City of Orange
1, Orange, California
February 17, 1988
Wednesday - ?: 00 p. m.
_ ~ The regular meeting of the City of Orange Planning Commission was
called to order by Chairman Scott at 7:00 p. m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
ABSENT: None
STAFF
PRESENT: Jack McGee, Administrator and Commission Secretary;
John Godlewski, Senior Planner;
Joan Wolff, Associate Planner;
Ron Thompson, Director of Community Development;
Gene Minshew, Assistant City Attorney;
Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and
Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IH RE: MINUTES OF FEBRUARY 1. 1988
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner
Bosch, that the Planning Commission approve the Minutes of
February 1, 1988 as recorded.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IH RE: ITEMS TO BE COHTIHUBD
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1636 - LA VETA LTD.:
A request has been received from the applicant to continue
the item until July 18, 1988.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission continue the item to
the July 18 meeting subject to the re-advertising of public
notice and the applicant's payment of fees for the
re-advertisement.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
Chairman Scott requested, with the Commission's approval,
that Item #11 be elevated to be heard prior to Items #3 and
#4.
PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
~, Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 2
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Bosch,
that the Planning Commission advance the policy statement
discussion on temporary parking standards to be discussed
first as it pertains directly to Items #3 and #4.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
ROES: Ilone HOTIOH CARRIED
Commissioner Greek excused himself from discussion on Item
#11 for potential conflict of interest, but will return for
participation in Items #3 and #4.
IA RE: MEW BIISIPESS
John Godlewski presented Item #11 -- a
staff assembled after the Commission's
which they discussed various standards
lots. Various aspects of development
temporary lots have been assembled and
statement.
policy statement that
study session in
for temporary parking
standards for
are included in the
Commissioner Bosch wanted elaboration on #4 - Fencing -
..,some consideration shall be made for common property
lines with residentially zoned parcels. Parking would be a
substantially different use than residentially zoned parcels
normally requiring a masonry wall for separation.
Mr. Godlewski stated the code requirement for a masonry wall
would remain and should take precedence.
Chairman Scott questioned B. for clarification on the
appeal. If the applicant is dissatisfied with the
Commission's appeal, it will be forwarded to the City
Council.
That was affirmed.
Chairman Scott would like to add to the sentence under D. 2.
- Pavement Section - as well as existing soil conditions.
CTo be inserted after length of time.)
Those speaking in opposition:
Tom Beck, 2686 Sylvan Circle, addressed security fencing.
He questioned if it meant temporary parking lots would have
® six foot fences in the City?
Chairman Scott responded in the affirmative (within the
front yard setback.
Mr. Beck wondered why on a temporary parking lot there would
be a fence and not on a regular parking lot. These are not
`_ Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 3
storage yards; dust open parking used around the city. To
require a fence is not really necessary.
Chairman Scott responded that the fencing was required
around a lesser use of zoning such as residential vs.
parking lots, which is standard throughout the City. If
there is a commercial going against a R-3 or R-2, it
requires a six foot masonry fence by code.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Hart,
that the Planning Commission recommend approval of these
policies as amended. (This includes additions of the
Planning Commission action may be appealed to the City
Council; adding the existing soils condition as a
consideration for pavement; and clarifying the need for a
masonry wall per existing development standards onto common
property lines with residentially zoned parcels.)
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
HOES: Aone
ABSEAT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Greek returned to the meeting.
I A RE : COHT I lYUED HEAR I HGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1642-88 - CHAPMAH COLLEGE:
Proposed conditional use permit to establish a temporary
parking lot for Chapman College on property located north of
Walnut Avenue, between Grand and Center Street in the R-1
zone.
ROTE: Negative Declaration 1196 has been prepared for this
prod ect .
(Continued from the January 4, 1988 and February 1, 1988
Planning Commission Meetings.)
John Godlewski presented the staff report. The request is
for a temporary parking lot on Chapman College property. It
is surrounded by privately owned residential property.
There is one single family home tucked between the temporary
parking lot and the existing school property. There is one
other parcel that is under escrow. Other than that, the
parking lot is surrounded by college owned parcels. Chapman
College is requesting use of the parking lot on a temporary
basis until such time as the construction on site is
completed and the Chapman College Specific Plan has been
adopted. In that plan, they anticipate delineating the
permanent long-term development of the College and
identifying permanent locations for parking. The conditions
`, Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 4
that have been included in the staff report originally with
the submittal to the Commission two weeks ago, staff has
included a statement that modifies those somewhat to reflect
what was adopted in the policy statement for construction of
temporary parking lots. The only changes to the statement
are #6 and #8, which reflect the policy statement and use of
temporary lights and the landscape setback requirement.
Commissioner Greek asked if a grading plan was required and
should that be part of the standards.
Gary Johnson stated the grading plan will be required in
conjunction with the placing of a temporary modular
classroom.
The public hearing was opened.
Those speaking in favor:
Tom Beck, 2686 Sylvan Circle, representing Chapman College,
would like to propose that the surface of their lot be
basically the type of thing they are currently using now,
which is rolled and crushed miscellaneous with an oil
surface of two inches. It seems the conditions on lighting,
fencing are adequate, but that one condition they would like
changed. If it is permissible on the setback to have a
reduced setback when it is opposite college property.
Chairman Scatt addressed the pavement conditions. It is not
the Commission's place to try and predict the soil
conditions and the pavement requirements. That is the
function of the City Engineer's Office.
Mr. Johnson said the only difference he saw between this
parking lot and the ones that have already been approved for
temporary uses is that this was not properly zoned for that
particular use. He will treat them both the same way.
Commissioner Bosch addressed the second request for
setbacks: It is not only the property across the street
they are concerned about, but also adjacent parcels at the
edge. That was what was discussed at the previous meeting
before the item was continued. The intent is if you have an
adjoining piece of property that is residential and is owned
by a party other than Chapman College, if you enter the
® setback adjacent to that, you are diminishing the value of
the residential quality of residential life on that adjacent
parcel. He believes the standard and condition are
appropriate with the standard applied where you own the
property across the street and adjacent; then you can relax
the setback.
0
~. Planning Commission Irlinutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 5
Mr. Beck stated in this particular case (talking about the
Center Street frontage) what property is considered
ad3acent? All four corners at Center and Walnut are within
the College ownership. As you proceed northward on Center,
there is no privately owned property on the street.
Commissioner Bosch stated according to the drawing they
have, prepared by the Facilities l~isi.nagement Department at
the College, the lot immediately south of the proposed
temporary lot on the west side of Center Street is not owned
by Chapman College.
Mr. Beck asked if that property came within the ownership of
the College, the Commission would have no objection to not
having the setbacks?
Chairman Scott said that was the condition. If they meet
the requirements of the condition, it would be satisfactory.
It was l~ix-. Beck's understanding that property is now in
escrow.
Mr. IrIcGee said the staff would
with Chapman College and deal
that piece of property. If it
certainly authorize, with the
reduced setback.
The public hearing was closed.
be more than happy to work
with them in the ownership of
meets the criteria, they can
Commission's consent, that
Commissioner Bosch stated with the revised conditions dated
February 17, he believes the applicant understands the
impact of that. He does not have a problem with the project
other than the site plan they have before them does not
conform to the conditions with regard to illustrating where
the setback is and the landscaping. He is concerned in
issuing approval that they are able to attach a means by
which the Design Review Board or staff review this to assure
that the conditions are accurately applied for the intent of
the Commission before a permit is issued.
Irir. IYIcGee believes the staff, through the finvironmental
Review Board, will take a look at the revised site plan to
ensure it's consistency with the standards and conditions.
Commissioner Hart added they are not approving the site
plan.
i
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Hart,
that the Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit
1642-88 subject to review of the revised site plan <by
staff> to assure conditions are accurately applied before a
permit is issued.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
I A RE : CONT I NUBD HEARINGS
CORDITIORAL USB PBRI+IIT 1643-88 - CHAPMAH COLLBGE:
Proposal to locate a modular classroom unit for two years on
the west side of Center Street, south of Walnut Avenue.
This item was referred to the Planning Commission by the
Zoning Administrator.
(Continued from the January 4, 1988 and February 1, 1988
Planning Commission M,eetings.>
It was Chairman Scott's understanding that the temporary
parking has already been approved on this item. The
approval is strictly for the modular classroom for a period
of two years.
Mr. McGee stated that was correct.
The public hearing was opened.
Tom Beck, 2686 Sylvan Circle, representing Chapman College,
is pleased this item is on the Agenda and they are in favor
of it. This modular unit is tied to the completion of the
Learning Center for two years. Their intent is not to keep
the unit there for any longer than two years.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Hart asked Mr. McGee to red flag this request
for a two year maximum time period. Mr. McGee stated it
would be flagged.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Bosch,
that the Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit
1643-88 with the conditions as shown on the Zoning
Administrator's memorandum of December 8, 198?.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott
(TOES : Hone IrIOT I OH CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
Commissioner Greek excused himself from the meeting due to a
potential conflict of interest.
`_ Planning Commission 1[eeting
February 1?, 1988 - Page 7
ZONE CHAHGB 1078-88 AHD COHDITIOHAL USE PBRI4IT 1624-88 -
SAFT IAGO COIIMUA I T I ES , ORANGE
Request to change the zoning on the property from R-1-6
(Residential, single family>, R-3 (Residential, multiple
family>, M H (1+Iobile Home> and R-O (Recreation Open Space>
to M-H and R-O. The applicant is also requesting approval
of a Conditional Use Permit to allow a density bonus and a
reduction of development standards to facilitate the
development of affordable senior citizen housing. The
subject property is approximately 100 acres in size, located
along the southeast side of Santiago Creek, west of Prospect
Street and north of Spring Street.
ROTE; Supplemental Bnvironmental Impact Report 1171 has
been prepared for this project. (EIR 1171
supplements information contained in the previously
certified EIR 861 and documents anticipated impacts
due to the changes proposed in the project.)
Irix-. Ir[cGee prefaced the presentation with a couple of
comments, This is a very large project and there are many
issues involved. Some of the those issues are very large;
some small. Staff is proposing to establish a two-step
approval process to segregate the major issues out and get
those resolved before the minor issues are taken care of.
Staff proposes that a conceptual approval be given to the
zone change and conditional use permit. These would deal
with the major issues of the zoning of the site, the
alignment of Prospect Avenue, the affordable senior citizen
density bonus and the reduction of a defined list of
development standards. Assuming that is approved, the next
step would be a second series of public hearings to review a
precise site plan, street abandonments, subdivision (the
details of the project) that would follow.
Secondly, an issue that has been listened to by City Council
the last few weeks, has been one of haul routes and fill
materials, moving of dirt on the public streets. This
project does have a number of pits to be filled. There is
approximately 80D,000 to a million cubic yards of dirt which
does need to be moved over the public streets as part of the
project. At this point in time, there is not a haul route
established, there is not a duration for fill materials, nor
is there a time of day schedule established. Those are
details which would be considered as part of that precise
site plan approval.
Joan Wolff presented the staff report. In 1984, the City
Council approved a request made by the Conrock Corp. to
rezone the subject property from S-G Csand and gravel) to
R-1, R-3, 1~[-H and R-O, and amended the General Plan to allow
~. Planning Commission 1~Iinutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 8
low and medium density residential development on the site.
Approved plans included a total of 650 dwelling units and a
12 acre park. Additionally, approvals included a trail and
one acre rest stop along Santiago Creek, in accordance with
the County's l~faster Plan of Regional Parks. Circulation was
provided by an alignment of Prospect Street through the
subject property, extending north from Spring Street and
curving eastward to connect to Bond.
The conditional use permit request is for a density bonus
and a reduction in development standards, for the purpose of
developing affordable senior citizen housing. As part of
the conditional use permit, the Commission will also be
considering the conceptual site plan, which indicates a
total of 727 mobile home units, and the proposed realignment
of Prospect Street along the eastern property boundary
The proposal is for a manufactured home development, which
requires M-H zoning. Out of the 100 acre project area,
approximately 52 acres are proposed to be utilized for
market rate, adult only housing 1425 units) and
approximately 18 acres are proposed as senior citizen
housing <302 units>. The balance of the project area is
comprised of Santiago Creek, roadways and potential
recreation/open space areas. The applicant is requesting a
34x density bonus and a reduction of certain development
standards within the senior housing area; specifically, two
units per lot and reduced street widths and perimeter wall
setbacks. Approximately 18 acres at the southern end of the
property are being offered for dedication to the City, for
use as recreation/open space areas. The site plan labels
these areas as park and Y1-[CA, though the Commission should
note that the City .has not made a commitment to accept these
dedications, nor made a determination as to ultimate use.
If the R-O zoning is approved, uses will be restricted to
park, or recreation or community center type uses. Another
major feature of the project is the realignment of Prospect
Street along the eastern edge of the project area. The
proposed alignment differs from both the existing alignment
and the alignment approved in 1984. A part of Santiago
Creek is within the project boundaries, along the
northwestern edge, and improvements are proposed as required
by the City and County.
The appl
bonus of
The City
requires
requests
which he
Lcant is requesting that the City grant a density
34x and a waiver of certain development standards.
has an adopted senior housing ordinance which
that in cases such as this, where a developer
a density bonus which exceeds the 25x. bonus to
is entitled by state law, the developer must
`. Planning Commission Minutes
February 1?, 1988 - Page 9
provide a certain number of the housing units at affordable
rental rates. The ordinance requires that the developer
enter into a formal agreement with the City which identifies
affordable units and provides assurances regarding rent
levels. Although the developer has indicated to the City an
intent to provide low cost senior housing, specific
assurances remain to be worked out, as are many details of
the site plan.
A supplemental EIR was prepared for the pro3ect, to augment
information contained within the EIR certified for the
project approved in 1984. The supplement discusses soil and
earth stability, hydrology and creek improvements, land use
compatibility issues, and traffic related impacts that may
be anticipated due to the proposed realignment of Prospect
Street and the project generated traffic. The EIR indicates
that most of the anticipated impacts can be mitigated.
The City's Environmental Review Board has reviewed the
project plans and has expressed concerns regarding certain
aspects of the project, particularly with regard to
circulation issues. Of primary concern is the fact that
although the developer proposes to realign Prospect Street,
he cannot provide dedication of the full required width
along the entire length of the proposed alignment.
Therefore, if the project is approved, the city will be
responsible for any improvements to Prospect Street within
the 550 foot section between Bond and E1 Carmen, shown on
the site plan as being outside the pro3ect boundaries.
Another point which should be mentioned is that the
Circulation Element of the General Plan shows a connection
between Spring Street on the east side of Santiago Creek and
Valnut Avenue on the west side of the creek. A portion of
the alignment needed to implement this connection is within
the project boundaries, and is located along the southern
edge of the senior housing area within the proposed park
site. Although the site plan does not indicate a dedication
for roadway purposes, one of the suggested conditions of
approval calls for such a dedication.
It should be noted that if additional concessions are sought
during review of the precise plan, a new conditional use
permit may be required.
® Commissioner Hart said the proposed alignment of Prospect
seems to be of some question as opposed to another alignment
which shows Prospect dead ending on the upper end. He asked
if that has been resolved at the staff level?
Ms. Wolff said there are still concerns about the proposed
alignment, the main one being the lack of provision for
~. Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 10
dedication along that certain portion of road between Bond
and fil Carmen. The school district and developer are coming
to an agreement regarding the portion that is on school
property.
Commissioner Hart asked if the 80 foot street (shown on the
drawing) would allow for two lanes in each direction?
Iris. Wolff stated it would. That will be an anticipated
issue in con3unction with the General Plan Update. There is
a certain portion of the street that is designated as a
secondary, and a certain part that is designated as a
commuter street, south of Bond Street. The previous
approvals Cwhen the roadway went through the project area)
was for an 80 foot section. That was due to the traffic
volumes that were needed to pass through there. How that
the alignment is on the. outer boundary, there is a wider
street section. That will need to be addressed in the
General Plan Update.
Commissioner Bosch is aware that this is not a precise plan,
but a general plan and they still have the request for
development standards related to the seniors use for the
interior drives in the seniors portion of the project. The
traffic study does not appear to address the queing or the
mayor circulation internal to the site that would result
from the entrance points and have impact in addition to fire
safety requirements on the width of the drive. Has staff
addressed that relationship?
Mr. McGee said that has been reviewed at the finvironmental
Review Board. At has been reviewed at this point in
relation to access points on Prospect Avenue and their
relation to site distances and curbs within the street. In
terms of internal circulation, staff has expressed concern
over how the pro3ect would function internally, but those
are issues that would need to be resolved at the time of the
precise site plan approval.
Commissioner Bosch asked about the knuckling at Walnut,
Swidler, Del Yalle, etc. He is concerned about the queing
distances, site lines, etc.
Mr. McGee said that has also been reviewed by the
finvironmental Review Board.
Mr. Johnson said they have looked at that situation and
feels ultimately the re-alignment would provide access to
the asphalt batch plant. The community would like to see
Walnut eliminated as a through roadway.
Planning Commission Iriinutes
February 1?, 1988 - Page 11
Chairman Scott explained the public hearing procedure before
opening the public hearing.
The public hearing was opened.
~ Richard Simonian, ?63 Rodeo Circle, President of Silvercrest
Corp., which has a subsidiary called Santiago Corporation.
They have a joint venture with a company called Watt
Industries. That company is a builder of stick built
housing. They bought subject property from Conrock about
seven or eight months ago and presently own the property
now. They bought it with the present zoning with the
intention of developing the property with the present zoning
as it exists now. During discussion with the City, it
appeared that there was the possibility of providing some
senior housing units and some additional benefits to the
City. Their company is a manufacturer of homes and
manufacturing plants. A slide presentation was shown on
manufactured housing. Their company is interested in the
development of low cost housing and senior housing. They
are presently supplying the City of Oakland units for low
cost housing, which is turning out to be very successful.
The market rate houses will sell for under X100,000. They
are proposing 300 senior citizen units and asking for a
density bonus on those units. One of the problems staff has
is the reduction of the size of the senior citizens' street
area to 26 feet. The Fire Department has concern with that.
There will be no parking on those streets and they are
proposing to put fire sprinkler systems throughout every
house in the senior citizens area. They think that even
though the streets are 26 feet in width, with no parking on
the street and fire sprinkler systems, they can overcome the
objections the Fire Department may have. They have looked
at the alignment on Prospect Avenue and think the
north/south alignment is a very good solution. In analyzing
the prior alignment, they could not see putting a major
street through the middle of the senior citizen housing. If
they did, it would destroy the entire concept. The traffic
studies for the manufactured housing development, which they
propose to be an all adult development, <they have the right
under the Supreme Court and the legislature of the State of
California> would reduce traffic flow considerably from the
zoning that presently exists to the new zoning. The number
of persons that would live within the boundaries under the
present zone would be approximately 2600. Under the zoning
they are currently proposing that would be reduced to 1450.
The traffic would be diminished because of this. They are
proposing within the project to have a ?,000 square foot
recreational facility which would provide recreation for
both the seniors and market rate housing. They also thought
the prior development was dedicating to the City for park
purposes of 14.3 acres; they are now at a point where they
a. Planning Commission 1~Iinutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 12
can offer 21.5 acres of land to the City. They have agreed
with the school district to transfer some properties to each
other in order to bring the alignment into reality.
Commissioner Hart was somewhat familiar with the Fairhaven
property that was mentioned. He asked if l~r. Simonian
maintained ownership of the land?
Mr. Simonian responded yes. They are proposing to have a 99
year lease. That lease will go to each consumer and there
will be a minimum rent increase of 3x and a maximum rent
increase of 8 1/2x. It falls within the guidelines of all
rent controls. The fluctuation between the 3 and 8 1/2x
will be on the Consumer Price Index.
Commissioner Hart asked about the senior housing being a
straight rental?
Mr. Simian responded that was a straight rental based on
the market rate that they can come up with at this time.
Should the City participate with them in any way, those
market rates will be reduced.
Those speaking in favor:
Sister I(ary Terese, 480 South Batavia, says the pro3ect
looks like a complicated issue. She would like the
Commission to keep in mind the needs of the senior citizens.
She was a member of the Orange 2000 Housing Committee and
that Committee came up with the information that the City
can expect 10,000 senior citizens living in Orange will not
be able to afford to continue doing so. The opportunity for
some affordable housing for seniors is something that should
be considered.
Chairman Scott received a letter in favor of the project
from Mike Spurgeon, who served on the Housing Task Force.
He read the communication for the record.
Those speaking in opposition:
Bob Bennyhoff, 10642 lIorada Drive, Orange Park Acres, had
two questions: The Orange Park Acres Mutual Vater Company
property; that piece of property produces 70x of the water
for Orange Park Acres. Mill the City try and condemn their
property?
lir-. Johnson stated it was not the intent to condemn the
operation of the well. Any re-alignment of the road will
not adversely affect the well. Only the City Council could
answer the question of condemnation. Staff believes the
developer should be responsible for providing this
additional width of right-of-way and improvement across the
front of the property.
~. Planning Commission Minutes
February 1?, 1988 - Page 13
Mr. Bennyhoff's second question:
private?
are the streets public or
Mr. Johnson responded the interior streets are private.
Mr. Bennyhoff asked who will enforce these streets; streets
are not being enforced now. ~ihat assurance will be given to
the area residents?
Mr. Johnson stated the only enforcement opportunity the City
has is in the name of safety and fire lanes. They don't
make it a policy of going onto private property and citing
people for violations within the private streets unless it
is a safety violation.
Mr. McGee stated staff has attached a condition to the plan
that the City will enforce the parking restrictions on a
private street on proposals in the past; however, it is very
difficult to enforce that condition.
Mr. Minshew inserted that on any private street where there
are CCBtR's, it is a requirement they put in that the City
has the right, but not the duty to enforce traffic.
Mr. Bennyhoff hopes the Commission will take to heart the
situation the Council finds itself on the Pennhill property
regarding hauling of dirt. They should know up front that
they are faced with many years of hauling; this should be
considered now.
Chairman Scott had Mr. McGee reiterate staff's conceptual
vs. precise plans regarding the haul route mentioned at the
beginning of the presentation.
Greg Hannam, 3?06 East Del Valle, lives in the knuckle
mentioned earlier. He was concerned about the traffic in
his neighborhood. If Prospect is turned into a primary
street, what will happen to the curve at Prospect and
Collins and what about the speed limit?
Mr. Johnson responded the condition of the roadway is a
problem up at the curve right now at Collins and Prospect.
Staff is asking that there be conditions within this
development to further improve that radius. Staff believes
this problem can be mitigated. Traffic flow in that area
will need to be designed and accommodated in a safe manner.
Mr. Hannam also asked about the triangle piece of property
Cshown on the exhibit). It does not show .any activity; dust
a vacant lot. He was curious what they proposed to build.
Mr. McGee stated they have asked that question of the
applicant and have not received an answer yet. Zoning on
that piece of property is R-1-6 single family residential.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 14
Marge Meyer, 313 East Palmyra, commends the City of Orange
+' for what they are doing about senior citizen housing.
However, it has come to her attention that these units are
being rented out to citizens of other states, cities. Why
can't it be primarily for the people of Orange?
Ron Thompson addressed that question and said the senior
citizen housing lists are developed with the citizens of
Orange and every effort is made to ensure that the citizens
of Orange have an opportunity, but you can not discriminate
against other people applying or moving into the units. You
can not restrict it to "Orange only" residents because of
Redevelopment Laws under the State of California require
that 20% of any redevelopment project area be used to
increase affordable housing.
Julie Ketcham, 4003 E1 Carmen, believes the proposed
re-alignment of Prospect is not only a bad idea, but would
also pose a threat to the safety of her and her family. She
spoke about the safety hazard of turning from Prospect in
any direction onto E1 Carmen. She believes the traffic on
Swidler will increase dramatically.
Richard Gross, 535 La l~ae Circle, added a few more comments
on using Swidler Street. The proposed YMCA will add more
traffic to the area. Why can't the developer leave the
proposal the way it was approved in 1984?
John Martinez, 3345 East Vine Avenue, does not want added
traffic either. The old alignment is better in his opinion.
An east/west through fare is needed.
Diane Jenkins, 362 Borth Swidler, is totally opposed to the
new pro3ect. She is concerned as a parent of the traffic
pattern that would change on Swidler Street. There have
been numerous traffic accidents in the past at Swidler and
Spring. There are so many children in the area that need to
be considered.
Robert R. Dalquist, 3340 Bast Collins, Arroyos Santiago
Community. There are ?1 units in his townhouse community,
of which he is on the Association's Board and spoke on the
Association's behalf. He is opposed to the pro3ect because
of the increase in traffic flow. Collins is an unsafe
street now. Bast Chapman and East Collins are both
overloaded with traffic. Eleven years ago they were assured
by Conrock that this pro3ect was going to be developed into
a park. They are very disappointed in what is developing
there now. He shares the concern about fire in the area.
Commissioner Master commented if the already approved
project were to be completed, there would be a lesser
density, but the traffic situation would still exist of
about the same magnitude.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 1?, 1988 - Page 15
Commissioner Bosch concurs with Commissioner Master. He is
~"""'~, concerned with the traffic problem Mr. Dalquist spoke of and
~+' he suggested their Association work with City staff to
mitigate that problem.
Chairman Scott said any developer could come in and draw
building permits on this parcel as it is presently zoned,
which is for 650 units.
Edward Albright, 642 Horth Glenrose, also spoke about the
traffic problem and the two lane intersection. Traffic will
automatically flow into the neighborhoods of existing young
families. He favors the 1983 proposal.
Jim Dykes, 621 Glenrose, spoke about the routes he takes to
and from work. The traffic is terrible in the
afternoon/evening hours; traffic will not get better, but
only worse. He is not against senior citizens. Are the
fire codes different for mobile homes than they are for
structural homes?
Mr. McGee thought the manufactured structures met the
IIniformed Building Code and would meet the same fire
standards.
Mr. lYiinshew concurred. There are certain minimum standards
that must be met. There are also some requirements in the
Civil Code that apply to manufactured homes.
Mr. Simonian responded there is no difference; the homes are
built to housing standards.
Joe DeCroix, 3?24 E1 Carmen, stated they are not "no growth"
radicals. Mo growth is an economic disaster for Orange
County, but it is easy to see why no growth is popular when
you look at this project. The pro3ect was not planned. He
read the 1983 Environmental Impact Report and asked what
happened to that Report.
Larry Milican, 628 Horth James, asked what kind of controls
the developer plans on providing to only limit the residents
to 1400 and if a younger couple moved in, would this mean
they would be limited to not having children in the future.
The Commission understood the pro3ect to only be a senior
citizens development; however, the audience understood the
pro3ect to include senior citizens as well as other adults.
1-Ir. McGee said the market rate housing development was
"adult only".
~'lanning Commission Minutes
February 1?, 1988 - Page 16
Mr. Simonian stated an adult <per state legislature) is
'' anyone 25 years of age or older. In the long-term lease a
clause is inserted for young families wha have children,
they have three years after the child is born in order to
~` move out of the development or the eviction process will be
initiated.
Karen Campbell, 3401 Bast Vine, understood the protect to be
"adult only". She thought by Federal law 18 was an adult.
She wondered how the protect would be subsidized.
Chairman Scott stated it would be subsidized through the 20x
set aside funds of the Redevelopment Agency.
Ms. Campbell also wanted to know what was considered
affordable; most senior citizens could not afford to live in
Orange County.
Ms. Campbell stated the public notice contained misleading
information on senior housing.
Marvin Kerbell, 3340 Bast Collins Avenue, was confused about
the incremental approval proposed on the protect. If the
Commission approves the mat or issues including the re-zoning
to mobile homes; then at a later time, find that the
developer does not meet requirements, are they stuck with
mobile home zoning on the property?
Chairman Scott stated the Commission will use the tool of
"intent to re-zone", which means the intent to re-zone is if
the developer does not meet the conditions, then the re-zone
is cancelled.
Mr. Kerbell also asked when the protect would be going
before the City Council?
Mr. McGee said that whatever action is taken by the
Commission will be a recommendation to the City Council. It
will be up to the Council to decide whether that decision is
appropriate or not. The final decision will be made by City
Council. If a recommendation for some type of conceptual
approval were made, it would go to the Council in that form.
A public hearing would be conducted and a determination
would be made. A second round of public hearings with a
precise approval would also entail a public hearing for the
Planning Commission and City Council.
Amy Giddleson, 3340 fiast Collins, addressed the curve at
Collins and Prospect; it is extremely dangerous. She has
nothing against senior citizens; she is concerned about fire
safety for the seniors and the width of the private streets
for emergency access. How long will the development take if
approved?
Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 17
Chris Kelly, 3704 East Walnut, spoke on the proposed street
running directly into the high school.
' Mr. McGee defined the proposed alignment of Prospect
swinging around the school; the access to Swidler would be
~" off of a side street. There would be some maneuvering to
get from the Prospect alignment onto Swidler.
Mr. Kelly's main concern is the amount of traffic that flows
through the area now. With the traffic and noise property
will be devaluated.
Tim Kressen, 641 Borth James, is concerned about the
permanent funneling of a four lane Prospect into two lanes.
What is more important: To consider the inconvenience of
those within the pro3ect or the danger and difficulty of the
many outside the pro3ect. To bottleneck the area is not
thinking ahead. A compromise should be reached.
Mary Wood, 242 North Olympia Way, spoke about the traffic
problem. She will be trapped in her neighborhood if the
proposed alignment is approved.
Tom Shober, 2607 East Walnut, asked what the Fire
Department's recommendation or input was for the project?
Chairman Scott stated the Fire Department did respond
regarding this gro~ect. They indicated the proposed
development will have an impact on existing fire prevention
suppression and emergency medical resources. Chairman Scott
read the memorandum to the audience.
Mr. McGee said the Fire Department has reviewed the site
plan. Again, it has been reviewed in a conceptual format
only; therefore, all of the details have not been
formalized. The Fire Department has expressed a concern
about the width of the streets in the affordable seniors
area being too narrow.
Bob Curtis, lives at the corner of Bond and Prospect. He
referenced the original Environmental Impact Report on
traffic counts being taken at Chapman and Prospect.
Mr. McGee said there were other intersections as well
besides Chapman and Prospect that were discussed.
Mr. Johnson responded to the different traffic counts that
were conducted in the area.
Martha Judd, 2919 East Hamilton Avenue, wondered if they
were going to get a guarantee from the developer regarding
the development being sold in the future?
planning Commission Minutes
~. February 17, 1988 - Page 18
Larry Milican, 628 Aorth James, spoke previously. Made
reference to the analysis report on the areas studied:
Chapman and Prospect, Chapman and Yorba, and Prospect and
Walnut. There was no consideration taken for the
intersection at Bond and Prospect.
Marilyn Everett, 3421 East Yine, would like to know what the
land fill is going to be, how long it will take the land to
settle, and why the change from housing to mobile homes?
Will sinking occur? She feels this will devaluate her home.
Ken McElfries, 624 North Heatherstone, mentioned the
property is in a high flood plain. Approximately 1? years
ago several homes on the west side of the creek broke off
and washed down through there. If mobile homes are to be
placed there, they should be built like boats.
Thomas Hooper, 374 North Swidler, spoke on the realignment
of Prospect burdening the existing neighborhoods. He is
opposed to this. He does not feel they should absorb the
excess traffic that is being created because of the seniors'
new homes.
Alfred Bonitos, 2525 Bourbon, favors the old plan and
opposes any new plans.
Paul Gresbrink, 3?22 East Sycamore, is concerned about the
land fill sinking in. Someone is being taken advantage of,
along with the residents who already live there.
Dick Judd, 2919 East Hamilton Avenue, spoke against crossing
Santiago Creek. His existing neighborhood cannot hold the
traffic. This has been discussed several times. The
alignment of Prospect should be left as it was with Conrock.
If the developer sells, it will be a new set of rules.
Norma Cullen, 2?7 North Olympia Way, talked about the
traffic problem and children being hit while crossing the
street. She addressed the zone change and does not believe
adults only/senior citizens are best for the area; she
prefers to see families living there with children. She
objects to a fabricated home. She does not object to the
senior citizen development, but asks that one be built that
they can afford.
Mr. Simonian responded to the neighbors concerns. They
bought the land with the present zoning. The present zoning
will allow 200 mobile homes and 450 other types of
residential housing. The Commission will have to make a
decision whether or not the plan Silvercrest is proposing to
the City is better for the residents than what was approved
in 1984. They have no objection to developing the project
Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 19
under the plan of 1984, but they feel this plan is better
for the City and neighborhood. He feels the neighbors have
not spent enough time to look at the facts, traffic and what
is going on. The all-adult feature is a part of the state
laws and that is in the 99 year lease, which will be
recorded and goes with the land. The size of the streets in
this kind of development are all over everywhere. Senate
Bill 1960 allows a 26 foot street for a senior citizens
development. Silvercrest plans to build R-1 residences
along with this development on that triangular piece of
property. Two traffic studies have been made showing that
the traffic count will be considerably less with an
all-adult development, than it will be with a family
development. He has no ob3ection to family developments.
Whatever decision is made by the Planning Commission and
City Council, they are agreeable to it; they do not have a
problem with that. Traffic seems to be the mayor issue.
The proper alignment of Prospect can be mitigated.
Silvercrest is negotiating with the Orange County Water
District to provide them with sufficient dirt out of the
ad3acent area whereby they will be able to haul dirt from
the ad3acent area onto the site without going on the
streets.
Commissioner Bosch stated the ma3or issue is the Prospect
alignment, particularly with regard to the bottleneck that
has been mentioned. What is the prospect of widening
Prospect Street in the future? As an alternative, what look
was made to aligning Prospect on the west side of that
property to avoid the problem and relieve the traffic in the
existing neighborhood?
Mr. Simonian discussed with the Water Company purchase of
that access. They have not heard from the Orange Park Acres
Water Company about the purchase of that frontage in order
to alleviate that traffic problem.
Jerry Lindquist, 2428 Horth Grand Avenue, drew up an
alternative plan that shows Prospect dust passing to the
west of the Orange Park Acres water site. It is an
alternate that can be presented for consideration.
Commissioner Bosch would like to see further evidence on
other proposed alignments to see which would be better. It
is obvious and necessary to provide the full width as soon
as possible to avoid the traffic congestion.
lrir-. Simonian still
allow them to move
amount of time and
concerned.
needs a conceptual approval in order to
forward. They have spent a considerable
time is of the essence as far as they are
C
Planning Commission Minutes
February 1?, 1988 - Page 20
Commissioner Hart did not hear Silvercrest say they couldn't
,,„.., build the pro3ect with the original alignment. He heard
them say they could build their R-1 stick housing and also
200 mobile home units.
Mr. Simonian's alternative is that if they go with the
original alignment,. that will destroy the entire southern
portion of what they have proposed to do. Should they come
up with another alignment that will allow the southern
development to remain somewhat as it is, there would be no
problem. There may be other alignments that will work, but
they don't know of one. If they have a conceptual approval
of what they are doing, some other alignment could be worked
on. If the alignment they end up with goes right through
the middle of that property, it will destroy the seniors
portion; there would be no necessity to give any more than
the 11 acres to the City.
Commissioner Bosch had a technical question about
settlement. ~ihat steps will be taken to assure there will
be no settlement?
Mr. Simonian had both geological and soils reports made.
Full-time soils engineers will be on the fob. That fill
will be put down under strict supervision of soils
engineers. All compaction will be 90~ or more. If there is
a settlement, it will be an error of some sort.
Commissioner Master took the two layouts that were in the
packet and overlayed them for the alignment of Prospect. He
does not feel it will destroy the senior citizens area. It
is trading off one section for another.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Hart was not sure what he heard from the
audience. He would like to have senior housing in the
prod ect .
Commissioner Master thinks the desire for senior housing is
strongly felt in general by the City. The City has
opportunities to offset the cost of that by way of the
Redevelopment set-asides. There is an offsetting balance
that could still be worked out. He has a problem with
saying "approve it in concept." He feels there is room for
compromise.
Commissioner Bosch feels the senior citizens housing is a
very important aspect of what needs to be done in the City.
He does not feel manufactured housing is an issue after
seeing manufactured housing in the field. The opportunity
to provide the senior housing relates to the density bonuses
Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 21
and other development standards and the funding through
Redevelopment set-aside funds in order to bringing the rates
down for seniors. It is a fairly decent site for senior
citizen housing given all sites in the City have some major
problems with regard to traffic, access to facilities, etc.
He also feels there is a win-win situation for the proposed
project and realignment issue.
Mr. McGee said under the intent to re-zone procedure to give
the audience an idea of exactly what that means, it has been
used in other situations where the Commission and Council
have approved pro3ects using the intent to re-zone.
Basically, it says "we approve it, but we want to see
certain things take place before final action is taken." In
this kind of situation, the things the Commission is looking
for are certain ways Prospect could be aligned; that would
be something they would want to see in a final form before
recommending final action be taken on the zone change. Any
form of criteria could be established by the Commission as
conditions under which the zoning could be finalized. The
Commission would have more of a direct control on the
zoning. You do not change the zone until you get
specifically what you are looking for.
Commissioner Hart would like to see an alternate plan <not
elaborate) or conceptual plan to look at that meet the
objections heard.
Mr. Simonian requested continuance until the next meeting
and they will submit three alternative locations and give
the public an opportunity to review them before a final
decision is made.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Master,
that the Planning Commission continue the meeting to March
7, 1988 to review the three alternate plans.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Hart, Master, Scott
HOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Greek MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Greek returned to the meeting.
At this time, Commissioner Hart excused himself from the
meeting.
IH RE: HEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1652-88 - C 8t J INVESTMENTS:
® Proposed Conditional Use Permit to allow construction of a
2-story duplex structure in the R-2-6 (RCD) zone on property
located on the east side of Center Street between Washington
Avenue and Palmyra Avenue (273 South Center Street).
planning Commission Minutes
February 1?, 1988 - Page 22
ROTE: This project is exempt from Environmental Review.
John Godlewski presented the staff report on this item. The
request is for a two story development in the R-2-6 RCD
zone, which requires a conditional use permit approval
whenever there are two stories involved. The surrounding
land uses include both single family and two family
developments with two of the parcels developed with two
stories. Included in the staff report is a listing of other
conditional use permits for two story development in the
general vicinity that have been approved. The development
meets all of the other pertinent code requirements for this
type of construction and the conditions that have been
included in the staff report are recommended if approval is
given.
The public hearing was opened.
Casey Jurado, 4?5 South Olive, felt the land use is
appropriate. The structure is within the Old Towne theme to
blend with existing properties. They will utilize the
property better by going two-story rather than duplex.
Those speaking in favor;
Raymond Nease, 415 South Olive, wanted to know when they
were going to get started on the project. He has no
complaints with the two-story structure.
Those speaking in opposition:
Jay Hickman, 265 South Center, was worried about the
orientation of the building on a 50 x 135 foot lot. The
entire structure will be along his south property line. He
asked if the plans could be reversed and built along the
other side of the property. The impact would not be as
great.
Mr. Jurado designed the project to face Center, leaving the
original driveway approach in its existing location.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Greek stated the Commission's concern was for
the two-story unit only; not the specific layout. Design
Review Board will review specific site plans.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Bosch,
that the Planning Commission approve Conditional IIse Permit
1652-88 sub3ect to the conditions in the staff report.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTIOP' CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 23
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1655-88 - BRYON HASH:
Proposed Conditional Use Permit to allow construction of
two, two story buildings on a lot that is surrounded on
three sides with single story structures on property located
on the west side of Hewes Street at the intersection of
Washington Street C212 and 218 South Hewes Street>.
NOTE: This project is exempt from environmental review.
A staff report was not presented.
The public hearing was opened.
Bryon Nash, 1202 East Seventeenth Street, X22, Santa Ana,
stated this was a quality project of a two-story design. It
is located in a redevelopment area and hopefully will set a
standard for a quality project.
Commissioner Bosch commented that Hewes was an arterial
highway and there are certain restrictions on vehicular
access to it with regard to backing or turns arounds on the
site. This needs to be addressed as it may affect the
density that the applicant has.
Mr. Johnson said in looking at the site plan he does not
know if the applicant has demonstrated that those cars
backing out of the garages can turn around in the driveway
to enter Hewes front first. Some maneuvering is required.
As long as there is twenty-five feet between the garages,
which it appears there is, then the cars could be
maneuvered.
Mr. Nash said the parking that is required for those units
Cthe extra units in the back are additional parking spots);
they-are not required in order to meet the parking
standards.
The public hearing was closed.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission approve Conditional Use
Permit 1655-88 subject to the conditions in the staff report
and ask that particular attention be directed to the Design
Review Board and the City Engineer's Department with regard
to the traffic circulation issue as they review the final
plans.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
® NOES: Hone
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
"Planning Commission Minutes
" February 17, 1988 - Page 24
e^-. I N RE : NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1654-88 - CLEMENTE O'MATTA:
Proposed Conditional Use Permit to allow the operation of a
restaurant in the M-1 zone on property located on the west
side of Batavia Street between Grove Avenue and Fletcher
Avenue <2326 North Batavia Street).
A staff report was not presented.
The public hearing was opened.
Richard Forney, 4000 Birch Street, Newport Beach, stated
their restaurant is intended to be a sandwich shop to serve
the workers in the industrial park. The applicant has no
objection to the conditions.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Master asked if the Negative Declaration
approved for the site needed action to be taken for the
particular application.
Mr. McGee said no further action was required on this site.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner
Bosch, that the Planning Commission approve Conditional IIse
Permit 1654-88 with the six conditions stated by staff.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Irfaster, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1656-88 - PAUL A. AHD JULIE DITGBH:
Proposed Conditional IIse Permit to build a two story
structure with garages underneath and two dwelling units
above behind an existing single family residence on property
zoned R-3 <RCD), located on the east side of Clark Street
midway between Chapman Avenue and Almond Avenue C141 South
Clark Street>.
A staff report was not presented.
The public hearing was opened.
Dan Ditgen, 304 North Pine, spoke on behalf of the
applicant, who was not present. The applicant intends to
'Planning Commission Minutes
February 19, 1988 - Page 25
renovate an existing single family structure and add a two
story duplex structure to the back of the property in
conjunction with the R-3 zoning of the property.
Commissioner Bosch stated the purpose of the conditional use
permit was to determine that it will not cause deterioration
of bordering land uses or cause special problems for the
area and was concerned about the balconies on the second
floor that appear to have ma3or visual intrusion upon the
neighboring residential yards and the entrance to the two
dwelling units be at the extreme rear of the groperty behind
the garage next to the back fence. He feels that would be a
ma3or security problem for the tenants and thought there
would be a source of ma3or impacts on the surrounding
neighbors.
Mr. Ditgen said entry is made from the rear private patios
separated from one another. Privacy walls six feet
extending both sides will be constructed to not have
intrusion on either side. The owner is open to redesigning
his plans if the Commission approves the project.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Greek stated the Commission should not be
looking at site plans; however, he is not happy with these
particular plans. He felt the second story was spreading
everything to the maximum limits and questioned if there was
adequate parking for the units.
Mr. McGee told the Commission the parking requirement for
this pro3ect would be two spaces per unit; six provided on
the site plan as there are three units.
Commissioner Bosch shared Commissioner Greek's concerns. He
sees a lot of detrimental aspects to the plan. He does not
have a problem with the two story at this site. He wished
to deny the pro3ect without pre3udice or continue the item.
Commissioner Greek suggested approving the project, but
instruct the Design Review Board to work on the plans.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Greek,
that the Planning Commission approve Conditional IIse Permit
1656-88 subject to the conditions in the staff report; and
add a condition sub3ect to submittal of a new site plan
answering the concerns of access points, apparent
overcrowding and over massing at the rear of the site with
consequential intrusion to the neighboring parcels and to
the concern of the arrangement of the parking and the
Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 26
apparent excessiveness of paving on the site to the
detriment of landscaping with the direction that those
concerns be answered in a new site plan and addressed by the
Design Review Board.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
ZONE CHANGE 1086-88 AND CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1647-88 - DON
ADKINSON:
Proposal to change the zoning from R-1-6 to C-2 on a 6,000
square foot parcel located at 130 North Bitterbush Street
and a proposed Conditional Use Permit to permit a restaurant
drive through window on property located at the northwest
corner of Chapman Avenue and Bitterbush Street (2401 West
Chapman Avenue>.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 1193 has been prepared for
this project.
Commissioner Greek was excused from the meeting due to a
potential conflict of interest.
John Godlewski presented the staff report. This project was
before the Commission a few weeks ago. It is a redesign of
the previous submittal and includes a number of changes.
Primarily the biggest change is that the pro3ect now is
incorporating the office building to the west. It is doing
this by proposing to bridge the channel and use the bridged
area of the channel as the drive-thru portion of the
restaurant. The effect it will have will be to create a
thru-traffic situation from the office building to
Bitterbush Street across the north end of the site, as well
as sharing the driveway that takes access onto Chapman
Avenue. The re-zoning portion of the application concerns
the parking lot area to the rear or north of the restaurant
site. It is currently zoned R-1 and is being used as a
parking area now. The re-zoning would clear up any
inconsistencies and make the entire site a C-2 zoning. The
conditional use permit portion of the application is to
allow the drive-thru restaurant and an administrative
adjustment is also required in that the final development as
proposed is placed on a narrow site requiring a two foot
difference in order to allow enough room for the cars to
back up from the parking area. This two foot can be made up
by overhanging the ten foot landscaped setback. The concept
of bridging the Orange County Flood Control Channel and
sharing the common driveway access with the neighboring
`Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 27
property owner has been approved in concept by both Orange
County and the neighboring property owner. Nothing is
guaranteed by Orange County Flood Control until such time as
they have an approved project. A number of conditions have
been included to mitigate the impacts on the adjacent
neighborhood including a six foot masonry wall across the
north property line, charcoal filtering for the exhaust
hoods from the restaurant and controlled noise levels on the
outdoor speaker box that would be associated with the
drive-thru portion. In addition, the street on Bitterbush
will be widened in order to allow both a right turn and left
turn lane southbound on Bitterbush. This would increase the
traffic circulation and eliminate a bottleneck that could
have occurred if only one lane.
Commissioner Bosch made reference to a traffic study that
was made concerning sharing of the driveway on Chapman and
the impact of the current signalization and phasing of that
signal on Chapman.
Mr. Godlewski stated the traffic study was done with a
different plan. The traffic study addressed a widened
Chapman driveway, which was basically widened to allow a
signal at that intersection. That is no longer a part of
the proposal.
Commissioner Bosch said there appears to be a substantial
parking load in the office building parking lot that often
exceeds its capacity. Has there been any discussion with
the applicant relative to the adequacy of the parking
standards established when the office building was approved?
Mr. Godlewski could not address Commissioner Bosch's
question; that would need to be referred to the applicant.
The applicant's proposal includes one more parking space
than is required by Gode.
Commissioner Master commented it appeared the covered flood
control channel would be providing additional parking for
the office building. Asked about the circulation and the
cars parked in the first two spaces north with a short S
curve.
1Kr. Godlewski stated there was some inconsistency with the
parking and access to the drive-thru restaurant portion of
the site. That has been discussed with the applicant and he
said those parking spaces would be used by employees so that
they would not be backing out into the traffic.
The public hearing was opened,
Planning Commission Irlinutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 28
John Murray, Carl Karcher Enterprises, commented on the
staff report. Item 14, Page 4, indicates they are widening
the west side of Bitterbush by four feet, but it is only two
feet. The original plan they submitted indicated the width
on Bitterbush from curb to curb was 30 feet. When they went
back out and measured it, they found it to be 34 feet. They
have a 34 foot wide street plus two feet, which then permits
them to get the left turn lane on Bitterbush, as well as the
other two travel lanes. On Page 5, Item 22, orientation of
the speaker box oriented to the north -- it is significant
that it is to the northwest. They are trying to direct it
to the channel as opposed to the property to the north.
Item 23, indicates total parking provided by the two parking
lots would be 80 spaces and it is actually 88. Item 25,
addresses the reciprocal parking agreement that they are
signing with the owner to the west of them so that those 88
parking stalls are being used under a reciprocal parking
agreement. Item 26, asking for an encroachment into the
parking landscaped area: what was discussed with staff is
that the area north of the driveway on Bitterbush; an
ad3ustment can be made in the drive-thru and that landscaped
area can be moved two feet to the west so that the need can
be eliminated for an overhang. Item 13, Page 9, hours of
operation: As a result of a meeting with the homeowners and
talking with their operations director for the area, it was
agreed to reduce the operation hours from instead of 6 - 12
midnight on Sunday through Thursday, it will be from 6 - 11.
On Friday and Saturday, instead of operating until 2 a. m.,
it was agreed to close at 12:00. After the site plan was
put together they tried to contact the people on the mailing
list. A meeting was held to discuss the site plan on
February 8. Seven homeowners were present at the meeting.
The homeowners had suggestions and they have agreed, in
conjunction with the meeting, to change the location of the
trash enclosure and move it away from the block wall on the
channel to those two parking stalls immediately south of it.
Then put parking on the north line. They agreed to extend
the six foot block wall to include the residential home that
fronts on Donneybrook. The homeowners expressed a concern
about cars coming up Bitterbush around the block and parking
on the cul de sac on Donneybrook. They agreed that if the
driveway access is not required by the Fire Department, they
would be willing to put a block wall in there to prevent
pedestrian traffic coming in off of Donneybrook. If, it
turns out it is needed, then it could still be resolved by a
combination of chain link fence and landscaping. There was
concern about the traffic exiting out onto Bitterbush and to
th
e
make sure they make a right turn only. If necessary,
driveway could be widened and put a concrete raised median
of some type that would force traffic to make a right turn.
`Planning Commission Minutes
February 19, 1988 - Page 29
Concern about traffic going into the drive-thru queing in
and blocking traffic; they propose to make the first three
stalls "employee only" to prevent traffic from backing out.
The driveway has been moved down and they propose to put a
hedge in that portion of landscaped area, north of the
driveway access. They have increased the size of the
restaurant for two reasons. They have gained eight
additional seats, which was important to them. They also
added kitchen space tv make it more functional. Traffic
circulation on the site was looked at by their traffic
engineer. The best solution for the site was to do the work
on Bitterbush.
Commissioner Bosch was concerned about the hedge for
landscaping vs. a block wall fence to assure that headlights
would not shine across to adjacent properties.
Mr. Murray stated it was staff's recommendation to use the
hedge.
Commissioner Bosch commented that the raised median and
right turn is appealing. He wanted to know if their
engineer looked at the specific concept of eliminating the
access to the site from Bitterbush, allowing an exit only.
Mr. Murray responded the feeling was that there was an
advantage of having the driveway access ingress and egress
on Chapman. With the original plan, the only way people
could get off the property was on Bitterbush. ~fow, they can
circulate through and enter and exit off of Chapman.
Commissioner Bosch touched on the grill exhaust being a
ma3or impact on the neighborhood. Is there something more
specific that can be looked at regarding charcoal filtration
that could be maintained and assure that problems can be
minimized.
IrCr. Murray said this was their concern also. This can be
worked out with their operations people to the satisfaction
of the planning staff.
Those speaking in opposition:
Melanie Diedrick, 205 Horth Flower, would like to leave the
parcel as R-1-6 with the variance for parking and keep the
front part commercial. The restaurant hours are dust too
long. The people who live in the neighborhood are working
people. They have to get up and go to work the next day.
They need a good night's sleep. Before, the plan was too
intense for the lot and neighborhood and it was denied
because of the intensity. Tow it is a bigger building with
.7
Planning Commission Minutes
. February 17, 1988 - Page 30
more seating and more spaces with a shared parking lot.
They have replaced a plan with a plan that has been
increased. She has a problem with the parking. Property
values are going to decrease. There will be additional
parking, traffic, litter, smell and smoke pollution. The
restaurant will be built at the expense of the neighborhood.
Rich Costello, 139 Donneybrook, will be affected by the
project the most. The speaker boxes are about 100 feet from
his bedroom window. You can stick your hand outside his
daughter's bedroom window and touch the fence. He does not
approve of the proposed plan.
Mayne Charles, 213 North Flower, is concerned about the
traffic from the stadium coming back through on Orangewood
onto Eckhoff, then down Maple to Bitterbush to get to the
restaurant. Trash will also be a real problem.
Mike Dorty, 130 North Flower, stated there is a traffic
problem now. Police do not enforce the weight limit on the
street. Noise will be a problem. He does not want trash in
his yard from these fast food restaurants.
Mabel Kontrie, 148 Bitterbush, is concerned about people
parking in front of her house and widening the street. Many
accidents occur on Bitterbush.
Don Diedrick, 205 North Flower, pointed out if you look at
the site plan itself, it is not substantially different from
the site that was denied in October. At that time there was
ample testimony concerning traffic, litter, loitering,
noise, and parking problems. This is virtually the same
plan. He does not see any reason why it should be approved.
Dawn Frye, 158 North Donneybrook, is concerned about the
lights, trash and the delivery hours of the trucks coming
and going, and people parking on their street.
Mr. Murray was dismayed with the responses of the public's
input. He addressed each of the concerns and stated they
are trying to mitigate the problems.
Commissioner Bosch said the primary reason Mr. Murray was at
th h in isn't that he is roposing a restaurant on the
e ear g p
site; it's the drive-thru window. The zone change is
collateral, but there are ways to approach the parking. It
is the drive-thru that has been included under the
conditional use permit approval requirements of the
Ordinance because it can have excessive impacts on the
neighboring land uses in the area. That is still his
primary concern. It appears the drive-thru window and the
•` Planning Commission Minutes
~ February 17, 1988 - Page 31
traffic circulation on the site, the minimization of
landscaping, the access points revolve around trying to get
the most efficient drive-thru operation possible. The
source of irritation in the neighborhood is the traffic from
the drive-thru window and the trash that originates from
that drive-thru window. He has not heard why a drive-thru
window operation should be approved for this specific site
and configuration.
Mr. Murray explained the advantages of a drive-thru
restaurant; less parking stalls are utilized. The
configuration is common practice. The queing of cars going
through the drive-thru was reviewed by the Traffic Engineer
and their consultant. Queing requirements are different
from other fast food restaurants.
The public hearing was closed.
Commissioner Master echoed the same sentiments as
Commissioner Bosch. He does not feel any different about
the current layout than he did about the first one. The
project is too intense for the site.
Chairman Scott agrees with Commissioner Master's statement.
Commissioner Bosch stated the impacts the drive-up causes
will be made more damaging by the sharing of access and
parking next door.
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner
Master, that the Planning Commission recommend the City
Council not accept the findings of the Environmental Review
Board to file Negative Declaration 1193.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, faster, Scott
NOES: Hone
ABSBNT: Commissioners Greek, Hart MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner
faster, that the Planning Commission recommend the City
Council deny Zone Change 1086 and Conditional Use Permit
1647.
AYES: Commissioners Bosch, faster, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Hart POTION CARRIED
Mr. McGee mentioned that a denial of a zone change action is
a final action unless appealed to the City Council. There
is a 15 day appeal period on this item.
Commissioner Greek returned to the meeting.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 17, 1988 - Page 32
IH RE: ADJOURHMBNT
' Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Commissioner Scott,
that the Planning Commission ad3ourn to February 22, 1988 at
5:00 p. m. for a study session in the Weimer Room, with a
special public hearing at 7:00 p. m.; then ad3ourn to
February 23, 1988 at 8:00 a. m. for a joint study session
with City Council.
AYBS: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Master, Scott
HOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart MOTION CARRIBD
The meeting was ad3ourned at 11:50 p. m.
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