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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2/22/1988 - Minutes PC City of Orange Orange, California C February 22, 1988 Monday - ?: 00 p. m. A special meeting of the City of Orange Planning Commission was called to order by Chairman Scott at ?;00 p. m. PRESENT: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott ABSENT: Hone STAFF PRESENT: Jack McGee, Administrator and Commission Secretary; John Godlewski, Senior Planner; Ed Gala, Assistant Planner; Bert Yamasaki, Economic Development Manager Ron Thompson, Director of Community Development Gene Minshew, Assistant City Attorney; Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and Sue Devlin, Recording Secretary PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE `_ IH RE: HEW HEARINGS Items 2, 3, and 4 are listed on the Agenda -- all of the items relate to the Old Towne issues. They are the implementation procedures for the Old Towne Design Guidelines, Old Towne Overlay Zone Boundary Determination, and the establishment of a review procedure for demolition requests. These are separate issues which the Planning Commission will be asked to make recommendations to the City Council on. They will, however, be presented in total by the staff. Chairman Scott explained the public hearing process: presentation by staff; then, the public hearing will be opened for public input. There will be a 10:00 p. m. curfew. 0 Ed Gala, Assistant Planner, presented the staff report. This is a public hearing for the proposed Old Towne Overlay Zone. When they talk about an overlay zone, they talk about placing additional requirements on top of the property. They are not talking about changing any of the underlying zoning. So if property is currently zoned for a duplex R-2, none of that will change if the overlay zone is adopted. The adoption of the Old Towne Overlay Zone will be a mayor step in implementing the goals of the Historic Preservation Element to the General Plan, which was adopted on January, 1983. The Historic Preservation Element identified Old Towne as an unique historic resource and identified a number of goals for future development of the area. These goals were listed on the screen: PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES ,• ' r Planning Gommission 1`Iinutes February 22, 1988 - Page 2 i (1> The preservation enhancement of both the commercial and residential sections of Old Towne with the establishment of Old Towne boundaries in the historic districts and to adopt an overlay zone with Design Guidelines and demolition control. C2) To provide for the long-term preservation of historic Old Towne neighborhoods through financial and zoning incentives. (3) The increasing of community awareness and knowledge of the unique historic aspect of the Old Towne area. The issues that need determination by the Planning Commission are: Implementation procedures for the Old Towne Design Guidelines, final Old Towne Overlay Zone Boundaries, and Demolition Provisions and Regulations for Old Towne structures. fiach of these ma3or issues has a number of suggested alternatives. The Planning Commission should choose one alternative from each of the mayor issue categories for recommendation to the City Council. Implementation Procedures for the Old Towne Design Guidelines• ~"`''; The document was adopted by the Gity Council ~ August, 1985 ~' and outlines design standards for the remodeling or new construction of Old Towne structures. The document is currently "advisory", but has been used by the Design Review Board in the review of commercial projects in Old Towne. It has also been applied as a condition of approval for discretionary pro3ects by the Planning Commission. There are three suggested alternatives for the implementation of the document. Alternative 1 - would make it mandatory for all structures within Old Towne <includes both commercial and residential structures>. Alternative 2 - would be to make the document mandatory for the Plaza Historic District, the downtown core, and the spoke streets, but leave it advisory for the residential structures. ® Alternative 3 - to leave it advisory for all structures. The final Old Towne Overlay Zone Boundaries: Alternative 1 - adopt the boundaries as recommended in the Historic Preservation filement. The boundaries are Walnut on the north, Batavia to the west, La Veta to the south ' ~ Planning Commission lriinutes February 22, 1988 - Page 3 <including the Hutwood Tract) and Cambridge on the east. It recommends including both sides of the street and also recommends the areas in dark blue (shown on the map) to be deleted from the overlay zone. Additional areas have been added <in light blue) which also can be deleted if the Planning Commission chooses to do so. It also recommends incorporating the four historic districts - the Plaza historic district, the downtown core, the spoke streets and the residential quadrants. This would relate directly to the Design Guidelines which also uses the four historic districts. Alternative 2 - is a similar boundary with ~lalnut, Batavia, La Yeta, the Hutwood tract and Cambridge, but instead of deleting areas of post-1940 construction Cas Alternative 1>, these areas would be included in the overlay zone. Alternative 3 - is to adopt the present boundary, which is known as the lilile Square. This alternative does not incorporate the four historic districts and also excludes the Hutwood Tract and Hart Park. Alternative 4 - is to adopt no boundaries <no overlay zone>. Alternative 5 - is similar to Alternative 1 with an irregular shaped boundary with ~Talnut on the north, Batavia to the west, La Veta to the south, Cambridge on the east <including the Hutwood Tract and Hart Park) and the four historic districts, but instead of deleting areas of post-1940 construction this alternative would delete individual structures in the wording of the Ordinance and would delete structures built from 1940 to the adoption of this Ordinance. Establishment of a review procedure for demolition requests: There are four suggested alternatives for demolition review. Alternative 1 - would be a 14 day review period prior to the issuance of a demolition permit in Old Towne. People would come in for a demolition permit. If the structure is listed on the Historic Inventory C4 volume group of books listing approximately 1,400 structures in Old Towne that are considered locally historic or significant), to get a ® demolition permit, a public hearing would be required. At that time the Planning Commission would review alternatives to demolition, review what the proposed new structure on the property would be. Alternative 2 - would be a public hearing for the demolition of any structure in Old Towne Cboth commercial and residential). ~ Planning Commission Ir[inutes February 22, 1988 - Page 4 Alternative 3 - would be the exclusion of the residential areas from demolition review. It would still require a public hearing for the demolition of any commercial structure, but exclude residential areas. Alternative 4 - is to leave the demolition provisions unchanged, which is basically no review. Today a person can come into Building and pull a demolition permit. There is no review of demolition of structures. Bert Yamasaki introduced a related item regarding the Southwest Design Guidelines as an informational item only. Part of the Redevelopment Agency staff's responsibility is the Southwest Project Area. That Project Area has a citizens group composed of property owners, merchants, and other representatives and they are evaluating various areas within the Southwest Amendment Project Area. That includes a portion of the Old Towne area. In reviewing that portion of the Old Towne area, the committee has recommended to the City Council thus far is that the existing guidelines be used as they are being used today. However, they have identified three new areas that need to be expanded: <1> the definition of the re-use of the property Cinfill of properties) either vacant or when a building is torn down and replaced with a new one; <2> the appearance of the rear facades, especially the stores, so they are not forgotten; and (3) new infill. These items were taken to the Official Old Towne Steering Committee and their recommendation at the last meeting was to accept those additional guidelines. Two actions are being requested: to receive and file this information; or send a recommendation on the additional guidelines to City Council. The public hearing was opened. Dale Rahn, 350 Horth Harwood, president Preservation Association <OTPA), opened the issues were of utmost importance to community. OTPA will address the follo~ Preserve, The Benefits of Preservation, Governments Are Doing, and What We Want To Do . of Old Towne public input stating the Old Towne +~ing topics: Why What Other Cities or The City of Orange Tita Smith, 169 Horth Shaffer, member of the Southwest Redevelopment Citizens Advisory Committee, member of the Centennial Commission and member of the Board of Directors of OTPA. She is a life-time Old Towne resident, having always resided in the Old Towne area. She addressed the issue of the value of historic preservation of buildings to people, neighborhoods and cities - Why Preserve? G Planning Commission I~Linutes February 22, 1988 - Page 5 Barbara Iriilcavich, Chairman of the Huntington Beach Historical Resources Board, 6032 Dundee Drive, Huntington Beach, said her city was not unlike Orange, but the care and love that has been brought to Orange isn't with Huntington Beach yet. They have a long way to go. They started talking history and historic structures about three years ago when it occurred to them they had lost many of the historic structures (i. e., Golden Bear>. The City permitted them to form a volunteer advisory board which acts at the pleasure of the City Council to advise them in matters of historic structures. Currently they are developing an ordinance to follow the same guidelines as Orange. History is what saving the old structures is all about. Dale Rahn said OTPA started researching the overlay issue and had a lot of gut feelings these overlays might be beneficial. They came to a number of conclusions upon researching these issues. What are the benefits of overlay zones? He broke them down into four categories: social benefits, economic benefits, cultural benefits and planning benefits and commented on each of them. He quoted from U. S. flews and World Report, November 3, 1986 on historic preservation, Historic Preservation in California, A Handbook for Local Communities, and Beverly Doss Spatt, Neighborhood Conservation - A National Group. Paul Case, Orange County Chapter of the American Institute of Architects, submitted copies of his report to the Commission for the record. Spoke on behalf of the Orange County Chapter, as well as the National Professional Organization, which has adopted a strong policy for historic preservation in communities throughout the country. The intent of the policy includes conservation of significant elements of the built environment for future generations, the designation of particular structures, sites and objects as landmarks, designation of existing neighborhoods as historic districts, the development of federal, state and local programs, grants and tax incentives supportive of preservation, the encourage of use of sensitive existing codes and adoption of alternative codes to encourage retention and rehabilitation of historic buildings and districts, the maintenance of original documentation of significant buildings and the education of those in the building industry, government and general public on the merit of preservation issues. The OCCAIA supports Alternative 1 on each of the three issues. In addition, the OCCAIA has additional concerns, which are listed as eight items in his report. The Chapter wishes to assist in the process as the Overlay Zoning is developed. c C Planning Commission I[inutes February 22, 1988 - Page 6 Dale Rahn stated at the previous public informational hearings there was a concern over cost benefits of compatible structures with stucco box situations. To answer some of those questions, John Wetteland, a contractor, will speak. John Wetteland, Wetteland Construction, 224 Horth Randolph, Brea, was asked by Mr. Rahn to look at a set of plans of a room addition in the Old Towne area that has been built, and compare the cost of building it in a historical preservation way to be in keeping with the existing wood siding as opposed to saving money with a stucco exterior. He addressed the outside of the house; he did not look at the interior finishes. The room addition on the back <extension of the master bedroom>, to build it and have it match the existing structure would be $17,980. To change the exterior of the building, such as with stucco and aluminum windows, would bring the cost of the room addition to X16,900. That leaves a cost difference of X1,080. That is only six percent. There are ways to save money that will not alter the exterior appearance of the building, which is a slab on grade construction rather than a raised floor foundation, which was in keeping with the house. In this particular circumstance, to do that room addition, the slab on grade would not have worked because the level of the floor would change. Then the room would have to become larger in order to accommodate stairs stepping down into the lower section. The point is with a little fore thought and planning, and a little imagination, you can have a building that appears old, but doesn't cost any more than a standard building. fiach room addition is different. So the six percent figure cannot be used across the board. Anne Seibert, 340 South Olive, currently serves on the Board of Directors of OTPA as the I+[embership Chairman. She has contacted other local governments around the area asking them what has been done or is being done in the area of historic preservation. In every case, the citizens of the cities have asked their City officials to help them preserve their historic resources by passing special ordinances to guard against alteration and demolition. The most common form of control seems to be a landmark ordinance following already existing state and federal guidelines. In reading these ordinances from other cities, she finds that Orange has already begun this process. The first two steps were to create a historic element and prepare a historic inventory of significant structures. Both have been accomplished and are well done. The next step would be to adopt a preservation ordinance creating a historic overlay that provides for the protection of the neighborhood of '~ Planning Commission %inutes February 22, 1988 - Page 7 concentrated historical resources, especially where the relationship of old and new structures is very sensitive. Design guidelines would then be incorporated into the overlay area. Allan Curl, City of Riverside, 3?53 Eucalyptus Avenue, Riverside, said the Riverside City Council established through an ordinance its Cultural Heritage Board in 1969. Their Board reviews designs for new construction in historic districts to ensure compatibility, reviews alteration permits as they affect publicly visible areas of city landmarks, and advises the City Council on important demolition permits. In 19?? he began to provide staff service to the Board. In the position, it is his responsibility to prepare all Board agendas, minutes, maps, letters of historical documentation, staff reports and recommendations, implement all actions of the Board, provide historical and cultural environmental impact assessments for the city, provide administrative approval on some 50 percent of all design review cases that might go to the Board, and to coordinate and supervise the restoration of the city's victorian house museum. The Cultural Heritage Board applies for and administers Community Development Block Grant funds for restoration pro3ects. Specific block grant programs for residential rehabilitation are geared towards structures on historic preservation lists. The City has developed a historic structure relocation policy to encourage private enterprise to relocate threatened historic structures into older neighborhoods. This is an alternative to demolition. A full-time special staff should implement the objectives of preservation while still maintaining a continuity with all other city policies and procedures. A municipal attitude that supports historic preservation, an ordinance and design guidelines that give definition to that support, a Cultural Heritage Board that administers the policies and a staff person whose primary ob3ective is to staff the Board have no doubt brought investments and fobs to Riverside. Rehabilitation, whether through block grant, tax increment, or private investment, has contributed positively to their image and economy. Sharon Schaefer, 344 South Center, serves as Treasurer on the Board of OTPA. She noted what other cities are doing pertaining to the demolition of historic structures. All of the cities contacted have some kind of demolition review periods for historic structures and historic districts. She read an excerpt from San Luis Obispo's guidelines and said it was typical of what most older cities in California are doing in regard to demolition. Gloria Boice, 143 Horth Pine, spoke on the issue of Old `~ Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1988 - Page 8 Towne Boundaries. In 1981 the Old Towne Steering Committee recommended bounding the Hile Square called Old Towne, which was the original town site of the City of Orange. Shortly thereafter, the City Council adopted the recommendation and created what is now known as the Old Towne boundaries. The Old Towne boundaries are defined as shown on the map: Cambridge on the east, Almond on the north, Batavia on the west, and La Veta on the south. Old Towne encompassed the entire area limited by these streets and included both sides of the boundary streets. In 1983, the City Council adopted into its General Plan the Historic Preservation Element. This Element acknowledged the city's historic resources and outlined an implementation plan that would ensure the preservation of these three sources. One of the recommendations outlined in the Implementation Plan was to modify the existing boundaries of Old Towne. The boundary streets are the same on the east and north and west; however, the southern boundary was expanded to include the ~futwood Tract and Hart Park. Additionally, some areas were excluded from Old Towne. The areas excluded are complete housing tracts that were developed after the 1940'x. This housing was developed as a cohesive, continuous unit. This is a large part of the appeal of the neighborhood. If the neighborhoods were included in the Old Towne area and a house was extensively remodeled or replaced, the new structure would have to be architecturally compatible with the structures built prior to the 1940'x. This detracts from the continuity of the neighborhood. Such a structure does not enhance the neighborhood as the rhythm of the street has been interrupted. The same argument can be made for a neighborhood consisting of homes having an architectural style common prior to 1940. These architectural styles in Orange are primarily Victorian, Craftsman, Classical, Revival and Mediterranean. These neighborhoods also have a continuity to them. If a contemporary structure is introduced into a historic neighborhood, once again there is a disruption in the street scope. The neighborhood has lost its harmonious qualities. There is a need to have a consistency in the structures and their relationship to each other. Every effort should be made to protect these historic districts as a collection of mutually important buildings. She quoted from a document from the California Office of Historic Preservation. Dan Slater, 17? South Jamison, three blocks outside of Old Towne. He also owns four properties in Old Towne and this issue is of great concern to them. He has been interested in seeing that the city has maintained its outward appearance as far as people keeping up their homes. He is a real estate broker and has sold many homes in Old Towne. Some concerns have been expressed with regard to real estate ` Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1988 - Page 9 ~,,' issues. People are concerned that if their property is made legally non-conforming due to ordinance that perhaps they might have more difficulty getting a loan on their property or they would not qualify. He invited some professionals to speak on the subject of mortgage loans. Donna Whitby, 41? West Brookshire, stated from her experience as a loan officer, getting a loan on a piece of property, they are mostly concerned as far as it conforms to the requirements of the zoning. It would be more appealing to a lender if the property conformed to the neighborhood. They do not look at the property; they rely on the appraiser's report. Eric Sands, 5515 River Avenue, Newport Beach, worked with Emerson Financial in Santa Ana. for the last two and a half years. The lender does take a strong look as to the physical makeup of the property, but what is most important is the fact that it does conform to the City's guidelines. As a loan officer, he does not go out to the property for inspection; they order an appraisal. Rick Litchie, 334 River Avenue, is a real estate appraiser. He has lived in Orange for two years. He gave a definition of what non-conforming means and gave examples of same. The proposed Design Guidelines would not have a negative effect on Old Towne. From an aesthetic viewpoint, an unkept neighborhood, such as excessive cars parked in the street, inadequate parking, excessive traffic, code violations, cause the appraisal to have a property negativity. l~i~. Slater presented a letter that was written to him from an appraisal company in Orange. He provided copies to the Commission and also read it to the audience for the record. Dale Rahn continued by saying the historic preservation design guides were adopted by the Orange City Council in 1985. These guidelines provide information and direction with regard to the architectural design of new projects to be built within Old Towne and also with regard to existing Old Towne structures about to undergo major remodeling. The Design Guidelines do not and will not require a property owner to make changes to his property. The goal of the Design Guidelines is to protect the unique architectural qualities and character of Old Towne and to ensure the long-term preservation of Orange's historic districts. The four historical districts identified in the Historic Preservation Element are: the Plaza Historic District, the downtown core, the spoke streets, and residential quadrants. Long-term preservation of these districts can only be guaranteed by mandatory Design Guidelines. Each of the four 1 '~ Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1988 - Page 10 districts needs to be preserved in order to ensure the preservation of the others. The residential neighborhoods of Old Towne and their preservation are critical to the successful preservation of Old Towne. Mandatory Design Guidelines provide a road map for development within the Old Towne. Mandatory Design Guidelines will eliminate the confusion and uncertainty on the part of developers and would eliminate wasted time and money designing pro3ects that do not comply. Tom Brokaw, 163 Horth Pine, member of OTPA, further addressed the issue of demolition. The Historic Inventory conducted during the period of September, 1981 to June, 1982 inventories and documents the buildings and homes in Orange associated with the city's history prior to 1940. In excess of 1200 homes and buildings in Old Towne were identified. Unfortunately some of these homes have been demolished. Old Towne must be handled differently from other areas in the City. Orange needs to take steps to monitor the demolition process of its historic structures. By establishing a 14 day review period (Alternative 1) to determine the significance of an Old Towne structure and then requiring an Old Towne demolition permit if found to be significant, the necessary safeguards will be in place. This review period will provide the property owner and community an opportunity to explore alternatives to demolition. Possible alternatives may be to move the structure, to find an alternate buyer or to at least photograph and document the structure prior to demolition. Rob Boice, 143 Horth Pine, a life-long resident of the City of Orange, graduate of the Orange Unified School District; urged the Commission to take action and encouraged by the Historic Preservation filement to C1> change the boundaries of Old Towne to encompass the Hutwood Tract and i~1.O. Hart Park, and to delete only those areas in Old Towne in which large housing tracts were developed after 1940; <2) to apply mandatory design guidelines for future commercial and residential development in Old Towne; <3> to provide controls for structural demolition by establishing a 14 day review period to determine the significance of structures proposed for demolition, and then requiring an Old Towne demolition permit if the structure is significant. Old Towne Preservation Association concluded their formal presentation. Those speaking in favor: Yal Miller, 359 South Pixley, helped OTPA research their presentation. As she spoke with staff and volunteers in h Planning Commission IrIinutes February 22, 1988 - Page 11 other cities, she was impressed with the prevailing sense of enthusiasm towards preservation, She felt Orange should build on its sense of history. John O'Dell, 273 forth Harwood, made two points. He and his wife paid a premium to buy a few of the R-1 zoned streets in Old Towne to protect themselves as best they could. They had difficulty getting the house appraised at the seller's price. The problem was not the house, but the neighborhood. The lender expressed great concern about appraising homes in Old Towne because of the mix. They could not understand it and had difficulty. There will be less problems if the houses conformed to the style of the area. By profession he is a writer. He recently had occasion to research the antique business in Southern California. He talked to people all over Southern California and across the country. Old Towne Orange is known back east. It is very valuable to maintain older homes of the one square mile around the Plaza. Pete Ritchie, 618 East Culver, is from the Hew England area and they like old things. He likes the feeling of neighborhoodness in Orange; there is an extended family in his neighborhood. Alice Clark, 205 Horth Pine, felt she had to talk because she has really changed her mind about the guidelines. She worked hard and long on the Historic Inventory. An official tool needs to be given for people to work with. Duncan Clark, 205 Horth Pine, has heard the term mandatory so many times and although he is supportive to a great extent of saving Orange, he sees many problems that will develop from mandatory guidelines. Russ Barrios, 235 East lrtaple, purchased his house in 1975, his second home in Old Towne. At that time, his house was in an area that was listed as at "blighted" area. Since then, they have renovated their home. He has a vested interest in his home and asks that the City protect that investment. There is a sense of urgency to adopt these guidelines as the "no growth" initiative has been qualified for the ballot in June. Tremendous pressure will be felt to get projects through. OTPA is not against progress; they want to shape it. Nanette Hartzell, 203 South Cambridge, favors the 14 day demolition review process. Gary Jaquith is in business at 200 East Katella, and currently owns a piece of property at 503 South Glassell, ~ Planning Commission liinutes February 22, 1988 - Page 12 which is in the proposed designated Old Towne district. By having mandatory guidelines it will tend to enhance the value of the properties in Old Towne because it will give investors/developers guidelines that they will need to follow and will help to maintain neighborhood integrity. Hence, the argument is that the value of the property in those neighborhoods will increase. He thinks the Planning Commission, in implementing this type of program, needs to give consideration to the way the Design Review Board practices its business of approving designs for these properties. If too many developers/investors have problems getting through the DRB, that is going to become public knowledge and it is going to impact the favorable aspects of having these mandatory guidelines. He related his experience with the DRB process as an example for his concern. If you are going to make mandatory guidelines, these guidelines have to be made both public and be made reasonable and consistent. The people going in should know up front what is going to be required of them to submit to the DRB. There should not be this kind of discretion that allows the Board to change what is required in a certain area. Herbert Chambers, 4757 Arlington Avenue, Riverside, owns thirty-two units at 345 Horth Batavia. He is in favor of this Old Towne concept and told of his experience in Pasadena. He owned six units of a Court that was built in 1920 and was declared a historical site. He sold the property for land as the buildings were not repairable. The city's requirement was a one year restriction on demolition for a historical site.. This prevented him from selling it. He invested over X100,000 remodeling the property, repairing the exteriors, painting it, etc. The rehabilitated property has been a success. The economic value today is two and a half times what he had sold it for as land value. He made this point because he would like people who own a couple of units in Old Towne to know that with historical sites they can do nothing but win. He endorses the Old Towne concept. Debbie Sigler, 233 South Orange ~1, made some brief comments. She spoke as a member who served on the Historic Survey advisory board from 1981 to 1982. She suggested the Commission propose to the City Council that the overlay zone be mandatory in all the districts; that the boundaries be both sides of the streets of Cambridge, Walnut, Batavia, and La Yeta, to include the Hutwood Tract and W.O. Hart Park. She also suggested the demolition guidelines review period be 14 days whereby the significance of the structure is evaluated by two criteria: that it is included in the inventory or it is built prior to 1940. The uniqueness of ® Old Towne needs to be preserved. __ ._ I~ Planning Commission Hinutes February 22, 1988 - Page 13 Those speaking in opposition: Steve lYioore, ?38 East Chapman, is President of the Orange Taxpayers Association. He sees the issue of those in disagreement somewhat with mandatory guidelines rather than proponents and opponents; a room and City has been divided between those who want it and those who do not. Speaking for the Orange Taxpayers Association, he does not see any disagreement with what has been proposed, but sees serious problems in that it does not allow for adequate give and take. He would like to propose that they take benefit from what Old Towne Preservation Association has presented, and not to have the Planning Commission be in the middle position of having to make a black and white decision. He would like to see the Commission table the hearing until such time as they appoint two members of Planning Commission, two members of Old Towne Preservation Association and two members of the Orange Taxpayers Association to sit down and come up with some workable, plausible, rational ideas andlor structure that will allow the Commission to make a logical decision. Mr. Bill Bremer, 615 East Washington, has lived here for 32 years and is in favor of the Old Towne proposal with the exception that he is not fully aware of what the meaning of mandatory guidelines is. Ranald Fairbairn, 1?0 lYionterey Road, has lived in Orange all his life and has been in the real estate business since 1953, although he is now retired. He has trouble with setting up mandatory controls. He feels there are adequate controls in the City now. All projects are sub3ect to a lot of review. Corinne Schreck, 446 Aorth James, spoke as an 18 year resident of the City of Orange and as a member of the Orange Taxpayers Association and as a property owner in three of the four quadrants in Old Towne. She feels she is proof that the advisory guidelines do work in some respect. She explained her experience with the public hearing and review process. She does not feel mandatory guidelines will do anyone any good. Eileen Hertfelder, ?20 East Culver, has lived in Orange for 23 years and also lived here previously before that. She agrees with lair. I~Ioore's principle about mitigating the issues. She feels it is the right of the property owner to decided whether it is feasible to repair or destroy their home. Some of the older homes are hard to insure. The problem with the Design Review Board is that they are not on the same footing as the Planning Commission. It is a time consuming procedure for approval of a pro3ect between the Planning Commission public hearing and Design Review Board. >' w ~ Planning Commission Minutes February 22, 1988 - Page 14 Robert Nickelson, 328 Horth Glassell, resident of Old Towne in a rather unique situation. He wanted to make some comments and shed new light on this issue. Some terms are misunderstood by many people. One of them is mandatory guidelines. If it is a guideline, it can't be mandatory; and if it is mandatory, it is not a guideline -- it is law. There is a possible solution: rewrite the zones to put the requirements in clear, concise terms that the staff, the applicant, the neighbor and anyone who wants to, can understand it and do it. He would like to see hearings avoided for conditional use permits on second units and variations on them unless there is a true variance involved. He used the R-2 zone as an example Csub~ect of most of the problem`s in the past few years>. He feels the covered parking requirement should be reduced a little bit. When designing a second unit on the R-2 lot, the first thing that is needed is to figure out where the garages will be built. The. second term is non-conforming use that is most often understood. There is non-conforming and legal non-conforming. He used another example to explain the situation. Legally non-conforming means it once was legal and now a law has been passed that says it is not legal. If a situation is created where people cannot get loans on ~,, their homes, then they cannot sell them. On the issue of ~ „~ demolition, he supports some time period to make a determination as to whether some alternative use could be made - either sell it to someone else, eve it to another site - at least time to find out those things. The newer tracts that were built in the 70's out in the southwest quadrant, it would be a shame to take those new homes and create legal non-conforming situations for those people. It would also be fruitless to try and convert those in anyone's lifetime to Old Towne style. Rick Kant, 281 South Batavia, is thinking of building a second unit on his property this year. He would like to go two-story and have garage space to pull his cars in off the street. His house is stucco. He will work with the City to have the second unit conform to his house, but he does not agree with a mandatory color selection; it should be his decision. Milt Chambers, 242 South Olive, has mixed emotions. He owns one of the historic houses and would like to keep it that Q way. His house does not conform with the other houses on his street, but it was there before anyone else's. Mr. Bobminsic, 22562 Mission Vie3o, owns property south of La Veta. He did not hear a reason as to why they are going to extend the Old Towne area down there as there is no historic value; it has been torn down. He owns property M ~~ Planning Commission l~iinutes February 22, 1988 - Page 15 that has "tear down" houses. If he is not permitted to tear down the houses, and has to rent them out as they are, the only people interested in renting them would be undesirables. John Brewer, 864 Horth Cambridge, has property at 202 Horth Glassell. The property on Glassell is C-1; he asked what the guidelines were for that property? Commissioner Hart stated his property is located within the new Southwest Redevelopment Area and the guidelines that are proposed for that would be mandatory. I~Ir. Brewer is not against preservation, but as an outlay of an entire section of a city, he thinks it is wrong. There a lot of good buildings and many old buildings that need to be kept, but to make an overlay is a mistake. The public hearing was closed. Commissioner Hart enlarged upon I~Tr. Ir[oore's suggestion. He does not want to see this issue divided in the for's and against's either. He supports the suggestion of two Planning Commissioners, two Old Towne Preservation Association members, and two Orange Taxpayers people meet. He would also like to see Bob ]rtickelson chair the group to work out a plan that might be acceptable to everyone. It was suggested they postpone this session one month to I+Iarch 28, 1988. Commissioner Greek favored the suggestion. This needs to be sorted out before a decision is made. Commissioner Bosch is happy that there is no pro or con, but some differences of opinion on the implementation and definitions. He was disappointed in that the Orange Taxpayers Association did not come prepared with their input because he values their input greatly. Commissioner Master observed situations with the Design Review Board and he would like the committee to include an item of implementation in directions so those going before the DRB would have a clear idea of what is expected of them and what decisions are to be extracted or presented by the DRS. Commissioner Bosch feels very strongly that staff input is needed regarding the alternatives to demolition. L J Planning Commission Minutes ~~v February 22, 1988 - Page 16 Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Greek, that the Planning Commission recommend that two representatives be selected from the Planning Commission, Old Towne Preservation Association and the Orange Taxpayers Association to form a committee and work out a plan acceptable to everyone. AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott ROES: Hone HOTIOH CARRIED Chairman Scott requested two names from each organized group be submitted to the Secretary of the Planning Commission by Friday, February 26, 1988. IA RE: ADJOURBMEHT Moved by Commissioner Bosch, seconded by Chairman Scott, that the Planning Commission adjourn to a previously scheduled meeting at 8:00 a. m. February 23, 1988 in the Weimer Room for a joint City Council/Planning Commission work session regarding the Draft Orange County Toxic Waste Ordinance. Further, that they adjourn to 5:00 p. m., March ?, 1988 for a work session with regard to General Plan Amendment and Particular Land Use Circulation Housing and Aoise Elements, and their ?: 00 p. m. regular meeting that same evening. Further, they adjourn to 5:00 p. m. on March 14, 1988 for a work session on Contour Grading and Fire Fees. AYES: Commissioners Bosch, Greek, Hart, Master, Scott ROES: Aone MOTION CARRIED The meeting was adjourned at 9:50 p. m. /sld 0