HomeMy WebLinkAbout2/4/1985 - Minutes PCPLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
City of Orange February 4, 1985
Orange, California Monday, 7:30 p. m.
The regular meeting of the City of Orange Planning Commission was called to
order by Chairman Hart at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Hart, Greek, Mason, Master, Scott
ABSENT: None
STAFF John Lane,. Administrator of Current Planning and Commission Secre-
PRESENT: tary; Jim Reichert, Associate Planner; Gene Minshew, Assistant
City Attorney; Gary Johnson, City Engineer; and Toba V. Wheeler,
Recording Secretary.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: ELECTION OF OFFICERS
Chairman Hart said that since he has served two consecutive years
it is necessary to elect a new Chairman. Commissioner Greek nom-
inated Vice Chairman Master for Chairman. Since there were no
other nominations, Chairman-Hart asked for a unanimous ballot and
declared Commissioner Master to be Chairman. Chairman Master nom-
inated Commissioner Mason for Vice Chairman. Since there were no
other nominations,.Commissioner Hart asked for a unanimous ballot
and declared Commissioner Mason to be Vice Chairman. Commissioner
Hart then turned the meeting over to Chairman Master.
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
ZONE CHANGE 1023, TENTATIVE TRACT 12299, VARIANCE 1751 - BARNETT
NOWLING
A. Proposed zone change from A-1 to R-1-12 (12,000-square-foot
minimum lot size) in order to develop an l'8-lot residential
subdivision which will vary from the required minimum lot
widths on 15 lots,. and to amend the Orange Park Acres Plan
from Open Space and Recreation to Residential Medium-Low
Density; or
B. Proposed zone change from A-1 to R-1-E (one acre minimum lot
size) and to amend the Orange Park Acres Plan from Open Space
and Recreation to Residential Low-Density - one acre, on two
irregularly-shaped parcels of land containing 8.7 acres
located northwest of Windes Drive between Santiago Creek and
Waterton Avenue (the old Villa Park Country Club site).
This matter is continued from the January 21, 1985, meeting.
+~
`~ NOTE:. Negative Declaration 944 has been prepared for this project.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Two
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said that at the January 21 meeting area residents had asked
that they have the opportunity to consider a) the project in
relation to equestrian trails through the area, b) the relation-
ship of this area to the Orange Park Acres P1 an, and c) the
County`s intentions regarding the possible expansion of the
regional park. He said there was also some question about the
appropriateness of the negative declaration in lieu of a full
environmenta1.impact report and the mitigation measures contained
in the negative declaration. In addition, on January 31, a phone
call was received by Staff from the Orange County Harbors, Beaches
and Parks Department indicating that it had just become aware of
the tentative map and was quite concerned about not having been
given an opportunity to review it, requesting that a map be sent
immediately. Staff was informated that the next meeting of the
Harbors, Beaches and Parks Commission would be February 27 and if
comments or recommendations to the City of Orange resulted from
that meeting they would have to be sent through the County Board
of Supervisors, which would not meet until March 12.
Mr. Lane pointed out that Staff did send a copy of .the tentative
.map to the County Environmental Management Agency on November 14,
1984, and received a letter concerning it from the County Regula-
tions Division on December 20, which fact was incorporated into
.the Staff Report sent to the Planning Commission prior to its
January 21 meeting. He said that in view of the comments by the
Harbors, Beaches and Park staff on behalf of that commission, it
would be appropriate to consider continuance in order to give
that body an opportunity to comment to the Board of Supervisors
fora subsequent recommendation to the City of Orange; however,
the Planning Commission could choose to move forward at this
meeting. Mr. Lane said Staff feels that although the Harbors,
Beaches and Parks Commission should have had the opportunity to
comment, it probably would not be appropriate to move forward at
this time because the politics involved in this County request
are such that it would do not`real service to the City Council to
have to wrestle with the problems. He said the County must have
some concerns and issues that it feels it has to explore and it
would be to the developer's advantage as well if the County had
a71 the i nformati on .
Chairman Master reiterated Mr. Lanes comments regarding the dates
involved and pointed out that the matter would then not come up
at the Planning Commission until its March 18 meeting. He asked
if there is any time frame on the filing of the project and Mr.
Lane responded that if there is a continuance, action should be
with ttte concurrence of the applicant because of the State 50-day
statutory period for acting on maps.. Commissioner Hart pointed
out that he was not at the January 21 meeting and asked for Mr.
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Minshew
Mr. Minshew recommended that neither Commissioner Hart nor
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Three
Chairman Master should vote since they had not listened to the
tapes of the January 21 meeting.
Chairman Master opened the public hearing for purposes of dis-
cussion on the continuance only.
Pat Capp, J. P. Capp & Associates, Civil Engineers, 15892 Pasadena
Avenue, Tustin, representing the developer, said that even if the
discussion is for continuance only, he would request that the
public hearing be opened for review of the project. `He said he
and his client feel they have a strong case for approval of the
project and would like an action on the zone change and tentative
tract map at this meeting rather than a continuance. Chairman
Master pointed out that since neither he nor Commissioner Hart
would be able to vote, the same three Commission members who were
present at the January 21 meeting would be rehearing the matter
and revoting; therefore, he felt a review would be unnecessary.
He asked Mr. Capp if he was saying that he was willing to make
the presentation again and run the risk of getting a "no" vote
again;, and Mr. Capp said he and his client were willing.
Marlene Fox, 3919 Westerly Place, Newport Beach, attorney repre-
renting Mr. and Mrs. Amos Deacon who own the property on Windes
Drive that is directly across the creek from the property on
which the tentative tract is proposed to be built, said she did
a lot of investigating since the January 21 meeting and has found
a number of things with regard to the continuance that were not
made available to her client. She urged that the matter be con-
tinued for input from the County. She said she learned there is
County property involved because the only access to the tract
would require an easement across County property in order to
construct the proposed bridge. She said the County would not
have requested time to review the matter if it did not feel it
had some concerns and recommendations for the Planning Commission
and she requested that the matter be continued so that the Plan-
ning Commission could have all the input that would enable it to
make an informative decision.
Commissioner Greek asked Ms. Fox what type of information she
thinks the County would add that would help the Planning Com-
mission make a decision on zoning. Ms. Fox said she feels the
City has made an inadequate environmental assessment of the
proposed project including the zoning and feels that a more
comprehensive environmental impact report should be made prior
to any decision on a zone change or variance. She told Commis-
sioner Greek that his statement at the January 21 meeting to
the effect that an environmental impact report wouldn't have
.much influence one way or the other was wrong since he couldn't
really know that until the information was in front of him and
at this time the information is not ~vailab1e.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Four
Commissioner Greek said Ms. Fox misunderstood him at the last
meeting, that what he was referring to was her comment that the
hydrology report would have an impact on the zoning and his
position was that hydrology is an engineering technical problem
and really doesn't have an impact on zoning--it has an impact on
whether or not property can be developed not whether or not it
can be zoned. Ms. Fox said that Commissioner Greek must have
misunderstood her., that what she was suggesting was not that
it was not feasible or possible to develop the property but that
before zone changes or variances could be determined, environ-
mental impact of developing property in a flood plain must be
considered. .She said the Commission does not have answers to a
number of environmental questions and that indeed these questions
have not even been asked since there is no data to support the
conclusions on the check list made after the initial study, that
she has found nothing in the City's files on this matter to show
that there has been any sort of assessment of the impact of
developing in an FP-2 zone in a flood plain. She said that even
though Mr. Capp represented to the Commission that he submitted
a hydrology report, she learned that this report is only engin-
eering calculations that were not given to the Planning Department
because the City Engineer said the Planning Department would not
understand them. She said the Commission has obligations under
the California Environmental Quality Act and must first deal with
these obligations before it can deal with zoning, variances and
tract maps.
Chairman Master pointed out that the public hearing was opened
for the purpose of dealing with continuance only, not for another
discussion of environmental impact. Ms. Fox said she understood
that and what she is requesting is that continuance be approved
because she feels County input will be important and will shed
more light on the environmental issues that should be considered
before any decisions are made. Chairman Master said that his
ahd~xstandTng is that if the applicant is not irr favor of continu.-
~nce the Commission cannot vote on continuance but must either
approve or disapprove the application at this meeting. Mr.
Lane said if the applicant does not agree to the continuance,
the Commision must either approve or deny the map. Mr. Minshew
pointed out that the action of the Commision is a recommendation
to the City Council for its action. Mr. Capp reiterated that he
and his client oppose any action for continuance and request
action on the zone change and tentative tract at this meeting.
He requested the opportunity to repeat his presentation that was
made at the January 21 meeting in order to .refresh the memories
of the three Commissioners present at that meeting. Chairman
Master asked Commissioners Greek, Mason and Scott if they needed
to hear the presentation again and they said they didn't.
Mr. Minshew asked if the Commission was satisfied with the adequacy
of the environmental impact report on the negative declaration
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Five
since it is a matter that will be pursued when the application
comes before the City Council. Commissioner Mason said she would
prefer. to wait for the input from the County before she makes a
positive decision and if the matter is not continued then she
would have to vote to deny it. Commissioner Scott said he agreed
and if the County has asked to have input then the Commission
would be amiss without waiting to receive it. Commissioner Greek
said he feels the Staff Report is~adquate:to accept the findings
of the Environmental Review Board and"fie feels he can make a
decision on the zoning based on both his knowledge of this property
and his experience in dealing with the County when it was consider-
ing acquisition of the property two or three years ago.
Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 944.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSTAINED:. Commissioners Mastery': Hart MOTION CARRIE D
Moved by Commissioner Greek, .seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
the Planning Commission recommend denial of Zone Change 1023.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSTAINED: Commissioners Master, Hart MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
the Planning Commission recommend denial of Tentative Tract 12299
and Variance 1751.
AYES:. Commissioners, Greek, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSTAINED:. Commissioners Master, Hart MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: CONTINUED HEARINGS
ZONE CHANGE 1027, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1391 - TOYOTA OF ORANGE
Zone change from R-1-6 and M-H to C-1, and Conditional Use Permit
to expand an auto dealership on approximately .8 acres situated
at the southwest corner of Tustin Street and Trenton Avenue.
This matter is continued from the January Z1, 1985, meeting.
a NOTE:. Negative Declaration 952 has been prepared for this project.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Six
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and pointed out that this was continued from the January 21 meet-
ing because the Planning Commission wanted a) to see the final
configuration of the dealership and the mobile home park as they
will be with the new property boundary lines, b) a traffic analysis
to be done for the proposed relocation of the driveway to Trenton
including the relocation of the mobile home park entry and exit
and the new entry and exit f.or Toyota of Orange, and c) wanted
more detailed information regarding the proposed location of a
median strip on the Trenton Avenue right-of-way. He said Staff
forwarded this information to the Commission late last week,
including a report on traffic and circulation which was prepared
by Justin Farmer, a transportation consultant hired by the property
owner. He said that subject to the Commission's review of the
additional information, Staff recommends approval of the proposed
zone change and conditional use permit subject to the 20 conditions
that were originally contained in the Staff Report, with revisions
to Conditions 1 and 2 as contained in the February 1 memorandum
sent to the Planning Commission, deletion of Condition 4, and
additionally the two conditions that were listed in the City
Traffic Engineer's report of February 1.
Chairman Master asked for verification that what is before the
Planning Commission is the zone change and conditional use permit
only and not the proposed eventual cul-de-sac installation on
Trenton Avenue. Mr. Lane said this is correct. Commissioner
Hart excussed himself from the action on this matter due to
conflict of interest. Chairman Master said that since he was not
present at the January 21 meeting and had not listened to the
tape of that meeting, he would abstain from voting on this matter.
Commissioner Greek asked if it is correct that the tentative map
eliminates the panhandle from the mobile home park to Tustin but
replaces it with a panhandle from the mobile home park to Trenton
so the Commission will not be creating a land-locked parcel. Mr.
Lane responded that the present access to the mobile home park
running east and west between Tustin and the park will become the
property of Toyota of Orange and a new access point for the mobile
home park will be built to Trenton, 35' wide and runing in a north/
south direction with either a right turn or left turn possibility
onto Trenton.
Robin Leiter, Redevelopment Director, said she met with the owners
of Toyota of Orange and indicated Commissioner'Greek's concern
about creating a land-locked parcel, and Toyota indicated its
willingness to deed that parcel to the mobile home park so they
would irr fact have access to Trenton. It was d~ter~ined that
a port,on.of. Parcel F would go in with Parcel E and the result
will be that Parcels A and B will become Parcel 1, Parcels C and D
and the easterly portion of Parcel F will become Parcel 2 and the
balance of Parcel F and Parcel E will become Parcel 3, and that
the lot line adjustment procedure can be used per the change in
wording of Condition 2 from "parcel map" to "lot line adjustment."
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
- Page Seven
In response to a question from Commissioner Mason, Ms. Leiter said
that if Trenton is made into a cul-de-sac it would be done to the
east of Parcel F, but if in fact such action is taken it would be
done with an abandonment process and therefore would be handled by
the City Council rather than the Planning Commission unless the
City Council wished to hear the Commission's recommendations.
Commissioner Scott brought up the matter of the proposed median
strip which was referred to at the January 21 meting as being
two feet wide but which, he noted, is shown as four feet wide in
the February l memorandum received by the Commission from the
Traffic Engineer. Mr. Lane said Staff feels that four feet is too
wide and the same result could be achieved .with two feet or even
with one foot since the only purpose of the median. would be to
deter left-hand turns onto Trenton in the exit from Toyota. Mr.
Johnson was asked for his opinion and he said he has-not discussed
this with Mr. Dennis, the Traffic Engineer.y but he feels Mr.
Dennis would accept two feet. Commissioner Greek commented on
the lack of mention of the proposed median in Mr. Farmer`s report.
Ms. Leiter said Mr. Farmer recommended that there not be a median.
Commissioner Greek a1 so questioned as to the usage of the westerly
access in and out of Toyota being used only for vehicle transport
unloading since there seemed to be some ambiguity about that in the
Traffic Engineer's report.
Norris Bishton, 2029 Century Park East, Los Angeles, attorney for
Toyota of Orange, said he received a copy of Mr. Dennis` report
and had hoped to meet with him today but unfortunately Mr. Dennis
was not at work due to the death of his mother. He said he thought
the issue had been resolved by Mr. Dennis and Mr. Farmer at their
meeting on Friday so he was surprised to see the information in
Mr. Dennis' report. He said Toyota of Orange is trying to elim-
inate traffic problems not create new ones, and Mr. Farmer feels
that putting a median strip onto Trenton Avenue would create a
traffic hazard and his recommendation is to design the exit from
Toyota of Orange to force people to make a right-hand turn and
prevent them from making a left-hand turn. He said the installs---
tion of a median would prevent the car carriers-:.from exitingonto
Trenton and for~them to try to back out onto Tustin Street would
be exceedingly unsafe. He said he feels there is no need for a
® median just to prevent left turns out of Toyota onto Trenton
because that exit would be used only by car carriers and people
who have picked up their cars for servicing; as to the former
they would have no interest in turning left onto Trenton and as
to the latter, he feels those people would rarely be interested
in turning left onto Trenton. He said that since he feels the
median would be only an interim measure until the proposed cul-
de-sac could be accomplished, it seems unnecessary to install it.
He recommended that the median not be installed and that instead
the Commission review the traffic situation in six months, by
which time he feels the cul-de-sac will have been approved, and
if the cut-de-sac has not been approved by that time, then a
median installation could be recommended if the traffic has
warranted it.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Eight
Commissioner Greek said he has a problem with the fact that two
weeks ago Staff asked for a median and Commissioner Scott asked
for the median design, yet Mr. Farmer has not complied with these
requests. Mr. Bishton reiterated that he thought the matter had
been resolved in the meeting between Mr. Dennis and Mr. Farmer,
but apparently it has not. He recommended that the Commission
approve Mr. Farmer"s solution of the problem as the safer of .the
two. .Commissioner Greek asked again for clarification of the
use of the westerly driveway out of Toyota. Mr. B ishton responded
that both westerly and easterly driveways will have electrically
controlled gates but that the westerly driveway will be used only
as a storage area and the car carriers will exit via the westerly
driveway., the one closest to Tustin Street.
Carl Peace, 1414 E. Trenton Avenue, pointed out that if a median
is installed, taking up 12' for a 10'~foot~wide traffic lane and
a two-foot-wide median, there wouldn`t be enough room left on
Trenton for two lanes of traffic and a parking area, particularly
of some of the traffic consisted of_vans and recreational vehicles
and especially since the street curved at that point. He also
presented an alternative suggestion for a driveway from the mobile
home park onto Vanowen rather than onto Trenton.
Chairman Master asked for information on this and Mr. Johnson said
he believes it is intended that the section of curbing in that area
will be designated a no-parking area and the balance of the street
on the other side of the proposed median would be two 12' lanes of
traffic, one westbound and one eastbound.
Commissioner Mason said the Commission still has not seen any
diagram showing where the proposed median would be placed. Mr.
Johnson said he has not seen that himself but his intention is
that it would begin at Tustin Street and go westerly to the west
end of Parcel B and not continue across Parcel F so that the resi-
dents of the mobile home park could turn either right or left when
exiting but anybody exiting from Parcels C and D would have to
turn right and could not enter from the east. Commissioner Mason
asked for the true location of the curve in the street since the
various maps seems to be in disagreement. Mr. Johnson responded
that the curve starts at about the easterly edge of the 35' marks
and continues easterly through a reverse curve. He said there
would be striping preceding the reverse curve so traffic would be
directed into the lane rather than hitting the median without
warning. Commissioner Mason asked if he would recommend a two-foot
median or a four-foot median and he responded that a two-foot median
would be in order. He said he also recommended Mr. Farmer's
suggestion for a 30° angle on the easterly driveway whether or not
a median would be installed.
Mr. Peace commented that if .that portion of Trention has no parking
along the curb the swim school patrons will be forced to park further
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Nine
down on Trenton thus making the situation even worse for the resi-
dents of Trenton. He also questioned the ability of a car carrier
to make a right turn onto Trenton if the median is installed.
Chairman Master responded that the turn radii established by the
California Division of Highways were taken into consideration in
planning the median, the angle of the exit driveway and the
turning envelope within which a tractor/trailer rig could negotiate
the turn. Mr. Peace asked if there would be a tonnage limit placed
on Trenton and Mr. Johnson responded that if Trenton would continually
experience a heavier load than normal it may require upgrading the
pavement.
Tracy Green, 908 East Trenton, asked how conversion to a cul-de-sac
would affect her ability to get in and out of Trenton without being
able to go to Tustin Street since Cambridge Street at the other end
of Trenton is already heavy with traffic, especially with the added
traffic to and from the mobile home park that would then also not
have access to Tustin Street. Mr. Johnson responded that the report
indicates 720 daily trips generated by the mobile home park and this
might increase .the flow of traffic by 30% but it would still be con-
siderably less than what would be considered to be an arterial or
collector type of .road and it would still be considered a local
street. He said. an abandonment study would have to complete the
present study as to what the needs would be, what the traffic volume
are now and what they would be as a result of conversion to a
cul-de-sac.
Robert Koenig, 1439 East Trenton, asked by what action and by whom
would the six-month review be initiated. Chairman Master said the
recommendation that such action take place would have to be approved
and put into the minutes, that such action would have to be initiated
by the City of Orange and the applicant not the residents of Trenton,
but that if the residents desire such action they may make comments
to the City and request review. Mr. Koenig also spoke in favor of
prohibiting parking along Trenton within the curved portion of the
street leading to Tustin Street. Commissioner Greek pointed out
that only the applicant has suggested a six-month review but so far
nothing on that has been decided. He-said that if the Planning
Commission decides it wants to do this, Staff will initiate the
action six months from now and there will be another hearing. Mr.
Koenig asked if residents of Trenton will be notified of such an
action from the list recently submitted to the Planning Department
or if another list has to be submitted. Mr. Lane responded that
the list already submitted will be maintained for future use.
Commissioner Mason said she is concerned about parking for the
swim school, espec'ia11y if Trenton is converted to a cul-de-sac.
Mr. Johnson said that if Tenton were to be abandoned, it would
include the swim school as muse; in other words, it would be
relocated. He said when the school was put in it was required
to .provide on-site parking but it appears now that what they have
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Ten
is not enough and so they are using Trenton; therefore, if part
of Trenton is declared a no-parking area it would indeed have the
effect of pushing swim school parking down into the residential
area. Ms. Leiter said the plan of the Redevelopment Agency is to
relocate the swim school away from its present site and at that
time Toyota of Orange would expand its facilities across Trenton
Avenue into that area.
Commissioner Greek asked of the Redevelopment Agency is buying
the swim school. Ms. Leiter said that Toyota of Orange is
currently attempting to negotiate the acquisition of that property
and if it goes through, the Redevelopment Agency is willing to
assist in the acquisition and she thinks that is why one of the
conditions of the Planning Department is to wait fora six-month
period to see if in fact the acquisition goes ahead as planned
and then, assuming the residents agree and the public hearing is
such thai; people want that street converted to a cul-de-sac, the
median would become superfluous. Commissioner Greek pointed out
that there is no six-month condition and the assumption on the
part of some of the parties concerned that there is such a condi-
tion is one of the things that is confusing the issue. Ms. Leiter
said she believes that Condition No. 1 in Mr. Yamasaki's report
of February 1 states that traffic control design would be installed
within six months of approval of the application under discussion
at this meeting. Chairman Master asked if, with that as a suppos-
ition, the ingress and egress would be redesigned. Ms. Leiter
said yes, if the conversion to a cul-de-sac is made, which would
be conditional to the residents' agreement and the City Council's
desire, then the portion of Trenton east of the proposed cul-de-sac
would become abandoned. and, in fact, would become the new driveway
for Toyota, and would include a Fire Department and Police Depart-
ment access as well as a pedestrian walkway for the use of residents
of Trenton. Chairman Master asked how the car carriers would make
egress from Toyota and Ms. Leiter responded they would use the
driveway created from the abandoned portion of Trenton. Chairman
.Master said he would have liked to have received a layout or two
of ,some of .the options now being mentioned.
Commissioner Scott asked if he is correct in understanding that
the two driveways from Toyota of Orange will be installed immed-
ieately if they are approved with this proposal and the median
strip r~e~-evaluated in six months as to whether it should or should
not be installed. Mr. Bishton responded that the two driveways
recommended by Mr. Farmer will be put in immediately and the cul-
de-sac will be requested if Toyota does acquire the swim school
property, and that is why they believe the installation of a
.median would be superfluous at this time, but at any rate they
believe the installation of a median is not a wise solution to
the problem even if the street would never be converted to a
cul-de-sac. He said there are other things for the Commission
to consider that perhaps have not been made clear: There is a
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Eleven
major parking problem in the area, not just because of the swim
school but because of the customers at Toyota. Toyota needs
additional space just to provide customers with off-street parking.
Toyota is anticipating that parking may be removed from Tustin
Street in that area and that would make the problem even worse.
Toyota currently rents space from the bowling alley across Tustin
for employee parking. However, some employees probably do park
on Tustin and on Trenton. He said they started this project by
meeting with Staff at the beginning to try to figure out how they
can solve all of these problems. He said in answer to Ms. Green's
concerns about the increase in traffic on Trenton from mobile
home park residents if it is converted to a cul-de-sac that indeed
the traffic would be decreased because Trenton would no longer be
a through street. He said Toyota`s goal from the beginning has
.been to convert Trenton to a cul-de-sac and that would be the
solution to all of the problems whereas to put in the median at
this time would be a mistake, especially since it would force
people leaving the swim school to make a right turn onto Trenton
thereby increasing the traffic on that street, a problem no one
has considered because they have dismissed the swim school from
their minds knowing they want to have it relocated.
Mr. Bishton said Toyota is trying to effect the relocation of the
swim school on a friendly basis and he has been working with Ms.
Leiter on this to help the swim school owner so they don't destroy
her business. He said they'req~aested a six-month period because
they feel that's how long it will take for them to acquire the
swim school property since they are trying to do it in a neighborly
and orderly fashion rather than just try to condemn the property.
He said Toyota has already purchased the Hudson property so it can
be used for parking its vehicles. He said he thinks the median
proposition is totally inappropriate but even if the Planning
Commission thinks it is appropriate, any action on doing it should
be delayed for six months until everyone can see what happens.
Commissioner Greek asked if the Redevelopment Agency is planning
condemnation of the swim school property. Ms. Leiter said no
decision has been made on condemnation but she has met with the
City Council sub-committee and it is asking the Redevelopment
Agency to provide a system for expanding Toyota of Orange across
Trenton Street. She said if it comes to condemnation that decision
wit] have to be made by the entire City Council. Commissioner
Greek asked if any. plan has been made yet for the ultimate widening
of Tustin Street.. Mr. Johnson responded that the five-year plan
for the Cityrs capital improvements program indicates right-turn
widenings at Tustin and Katella and it is felt there will be an
acute need for these within the next five years; in fact, he
believes the time frame is during the 1987-88 fiscal year. He
said this will involve acquisition of right-of-way, moving back
the curb, restriping, and relocating traffic signals. Commissioner
Greek asked if this redevelopment plan includes the proposed
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Tavel ve
changes in Trenton Avenue.. Mr. Johnson replied that the intent
is not to include that with any intersection widening of Tustin
Street and his understanding is that those changes would be made
as a part of the Toyota of Orange redevelopment only. Ms. Leiter
said she believes that part of what the City Manager has asked
for as part of the capital improvements program is for the Public
Works Department to indicate in what areas they have primary.
concern and she believes that the Tustin and Katella area is one
of the area indicated; however, that plan will go to the City
Council in mid-February and once it has been determined then the
Redevelopment Agency will develop a plan as to how redevelopment
funds will be allocated.
Mr. Koenig reminded Clommissioner Greek of his comment at the
January 21 meeting wherein he stated that if the mobile home park
were to be built new by today's standards it would be required to
have two ingressJegress accesses rather than one, and asked if
anything will be done about that at this time. Commissioner Greek
responded that Mr. Yamasaki indicates in his report that the mobile
home park is really having no revisions and since no changes are
being asked for within the mobile home park it is Staff's opinion
that a secondary access should not be considered at this time.
Mr, Bishton presented a summation of all the facts he had already
discussed during the meeting.
Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Greek, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 952.
AYES:. Commissioners Greek, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT:. Commissioner Hart
ABSTAINED: Commissioner Master MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Greek, that
the Planning Commission recommend approval of .Zone Change 1027.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Mason, Scott
NOES:.. None
ABSENT: Commissioner Hart
ABSTAINED: Commissioner Master MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
the Planning-Commission recommend approval of Conditional Use
Permit 1391 for the reasons stated in the Staff Report, with the
O following provisions: a) that Special Conditions No. 1 and No. 2
be amended as stated in the letter of February 1, 1985, from
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Thi~nteen
Bert K. Yamasaki, Director of Planning and Development Services,
with the change in the wording of Special Condition No. 2 from
"parcel map" to "lot line adjustment" since the intent of the
Plannin Commission is not to create a land-locked mobile home
park; b~ the Special Condition No. 4 be deleted; c) that the two
driveways for Toyota of Orange be designed in accordance with the
proposal labeled Figure 14 in the Traffic and Circulation Study
and shall be subject to the approval of the Traffic Engineer; and
d) that the traffic control (median) design should be installed
within six months of approval of this conditional use permit.
AYES: Commissioners Greek, Mason, Scott
NOES: None
ABSENT:. Commissioner Hart
ABSTAINED: Commissioner Master MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1393 - STOHLMAN~KOHOUTEK
Proposed second-story addition over the rear of an existing
single-family residence in the R-D-6 (RCD) zone on the west side
of Grand Street, approximately 130 feet south from Culver Avenue.
NOTE: This project is exempt from environmental review.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said Staff recommends approval subject to conditions in its
report, He pointed out that the staff report erroneously states
there will be no windows on the south side of the addition; it
should state north side. Chairman Master opened the public hearing.
Applicant Marcia Stohlman, 424 South Grand, Orange, questioned the
feasibility and applicability of Conditions 1 and 2. After dis-
cussion, it was determined that these conditions do not apply.
Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Greek, that
the Planning Commission approve Conditional Use Permit No. 1393
with the deletion of Conditions 1 and 2.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
ZONE CHANGE 1028, TENTATIVE TRACT 11956, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT
1394 - BALDWIN COMPANY
Proposed zone change on portions of the property from R-1-6 and
R-1-20 to RM7, proposed Tentative Tract Map and Conditional Use
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Fourteen
Permit to construct 74 condominium units on approximately eight
acres situated at the southwest corner of Chapman Avenue and
Canyon View Avenue.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 957 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with. the Staff Report
and said Staff recommends approval subject to conditions in its
report. Commissioner Hart asked if the proposed gates are going
to take the place of the existing gates. Mr. Lane said it is his
understanding that they wi11 but the applicant can confirm it.
Chairman Master opened the public hearing.
Robert Kasmerek, representing the applicant, the Baldwin Company,
16811 Hale Avenue, Irvine, explained the system of security gates
proposed to be installed and asked for clarification on two items:
a) Item 8 on page 5 of the Staff Report regarding assessment in
accordance with the Master P1 an of Drainage, and b) Item l,B,i on
page 7 of .,the Staff Report regarding specialized firefighting
equipment. He said that since both of the properties proposed to
be devefioped have already been recorded on final maps and assess-
ment fees have a1 ready been paid, they feel they don't have to pay
the fee a second time. Regarding the second item, he said they
are wondering what firefighting equipment is being talked about.
Commissioner Greek said he thinks the equipment referred to is a
truck; Mr. Kasmerek said he was assuming it was fire hose.
Commissioner Greek referred to Special Condition No. 1, which
indicates a 20`-wide secondary access and asked Mr. Kasmerek if
he has looked into that possibility or can meet that criteria,
because from the look of both accesses he doesn`t think they can
satisfy the requirements. Mr. Kasmerek said they have already
shown the Fire Department an access with a 15% grade further
down the property along Canyon View and the Fire Department seems
to think that is adequate. He said if an access were to be put
in on the corner of Canyon View and Chapman it would require.
about a 35% grade, so it would be difficult to have an access at
that location. Commissioner Greek said he thinks that if the Fire
Department had a representative at this meeting he would ask for
more like a 10% rate of grade. As to Item B,l,i, Commissioner
Greek said he would like the Fire Department to be more specific
as to what they would require in the way of equipment.
Chairman Master asked Mr. Johnson if he had any information rela-
tive to the required fire-fighting equipment and Mr. Johnson replied
that he can't comment too intelligently on that but it may be that
Staff has discussed the intent of it with the Fire Department. He
said a 35% grade would be impossible, but possibly the Fire Depart-
. ment would accept a 15% grade. Mr. Kasmerek said when he was
speaking with the Fire Department he was. told he would have to
provide either an access or an alternative method as far as con-
struction is concerned, such as sprinklers inside the houses,
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page fifteen
because without a secondary access there would have to be some
other kind of protection.
Concerning the drainage assessment fee, Mr. Johnson said if the
fee has already been paid as a part of the ordinance requirement
on previous tracts, there will not be a double charge for it,
but his understanding is that the easterly lot is not a part of
the original tract. Mr. Kasmerek replied that the lot on the
corner of Chapman and Canyon View is recorded as Lot 66 of Tract
10775 and the other lot where the other development is was the
one lot of Tract 1196, so actually both lots have already been
final mapped and all the bonds for all the street requirements
and everything adjacent to them have already been bonded for.
Commissioner Greek said he is more concerned about the ambiguous
conditions than he is about the development, especially the condi-
tion about the requirement for fire-fighting equipment, and he
would like to have better support for conditions that the Planning
Commission is asked to include in the approval. He pointed out
Condition No. 17 regarding door locks and suggested changing
that one also if possible since there is a conflict there between
Fire Department and Police Department requirements, i.e., the
Police Department wants double key locks for safety from intruders
and the Fire Department wants single key locks so anyone trapped
inside a dwelling by fire can get out easily without having to
find a key to unlock the door from the inside. Commissioner
Hart said he is prepared to make a motion regarding door locks
after this item is resolved.. Chairman Hart requested Mr. Lane
to contact the Fire Department regarding their being clearer as
to what it wants in the way of fire-fights;ng equipment, and Mr.
Lane said he would do so tomorrow. Mr. Lane said that as far
as the applicant is concerned, the map will go to the City Council
and prior to their consideration of the application, the applicant
obtain the information from the Fire Department as to exactly
what they will require. Mr. Lane reminded they Planning Commission
that the door lock requirement is a result of the crime prevention
ordinance that was adopted by the City Council and has been
through the public hearing process and is now being enforced. He
® said that this ordinance is now mandatory and it is hardly likely
Commisioner Hart said he feels the Planning
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Commission could at least make a recommendation and outline its
problem with the ordinance. Chairman Hart asked Mr. Lane to give
the Commission a status report from which a recommendation could
be made. Mr. Lane said he would do so.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 957.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Sixteen
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission recommend approval of Zone Change 1028 to
coincide the RM-7 district boundary with the realignment of Canyon
View Avenue.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission recommend approval of Tentative Tract 11956
and Conditional Use Permit 1394., with the deletion of Condition #8
if it is not applicable.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: LOCKING SYSTEM REQUIRED BY THE CRIME PREVENTION COORDINATOR
Moved by Commissioner Hart, seconded by Commissioner Greek, that
the Planning Commission request clarificationfrom the Crime Pre-
vention Coordinator as to the type of locking system required by
Building Security Ordinance No. 7-79, because the Planning Com-
mission is concerned with having a coordinated activity by both
Police and Fire Departments regarding locking systems in view of
the fact that the Police Department prefers the use of a double-
key lock in order to obtain maximum security from intruders and
the Fire Department prefers the use of a single-key lock in order
to allow persons inside a burning dwelling easier egress without
having to find a key to unlock the door from the inside.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: FIRE DEPARTMENT CONDITION REGARDING FIRE-FIGHTING EQUIPMENT
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Hart, that
the Planning Commission request clarification from the Fire De-
partment regarding the special condition that generalizes that
fire-fighting equipment be furnished by the developer as deter-
mined by the Fire Department, because the Planning Commission
needs specific details as to what equipment is required before
it can support the Fire Department requirements.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Seventeen
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1396 - A. J. CIGLIANO AND ASSOCIATES
Proposed off-sale of beer and wine in association with a wholesale
seafood business on approximately 1.5 acres at the northwest
corner of Main Street and Taft Avenue.
NOTE: This project is exempt from environmental review.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said Staff recommends approval subject to conditions in its
report. Chairman Master opened the public hearing.
Howard Miller, 757 W. 9th St., San Pedro, representing the appli-
cant, said he agreed with all the conditions in the Staff Report.
Chairman Hart declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission recommend approval of Conditional Use
Permit 1396.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
TENTATIVE TRACT 8154, VARIANCE 1752 - PRESLEY
Proposed seven-lot subdivision, and less than required lot depth
on one lot, on approximately three acres in the R-1-6 zone on the
west side of Villa Real Drive, approximately 650 feet south from
Nohl Ranch Road.
NOTE:. Negative Declaration 958 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Lane made the presentation in accordance with the Staff Report
and said Staff recommends approval subject to the 18 conditions in
its report which were the conditions on the previous map. Chairman
Master opened the public hearing.
Jack Lucey, representing the applicant, Presley of Southern Calif-
ornia, 17991 Mitchell, South, Irvine, said he agrees with the con-
ditions. Chairman Master declared the public hearing closed.
Moved by Commissioner Scott, seconded by Commissioner Greek, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 958, subject to the
mitigation measures in the Staff Report.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Eighteen
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
- Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Hart, that
the Planning Commission recommend approval of Tentative Tract 8154
and Variance 1752, subject to the conditions in the Staff Report.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
REDUCTION OF OFF-STREET PARKING - CENTURY AMERICAN
Request to allow 10~ reduction in the number of parking spaces
from 31 to 28 at a proposed retail center at the southeast corner
of Tustin and Wilson.
Mr. Lane made the pretentation. He said there was a Staff Report
that somehow wasn't distributed to the Planning Commission but the
Commission did get copies of the plot plan and it essentially
shows what is proposed to be done. Commissioner Greek asked for
the width of the right-of-way of the alley, if there is adequate
turning space and if it will be required that the alley be recon-
structed because there is no cross gutter now. Mr. Johnson said
he thinks the alley serves the multiple-family area to the east.
Mr. Lane said the alley doesn't go anywhere but south and then it
makes an easterly turn to provide access to the garages into the
back of the apartments but there are no garage accesses along the
alley as it runs north and south. Commissioner Greek asked if
the alley is wide enough to allow a turn into a 90~ parking space.
Mr. Lane said it is because such a turn can be made now as long
as one doesn't hit the telephone pole or the guy wire on the
parking spaces closest to Wilson. Commissioner Greek asked what
is the normal turn requirement; he thought it was 25'. Mr.
Johnson said 25' is for emergency vehicles but 20' is -~~
standard for .compact parking spaces.
Mr. Lane suggested that this item be continued until the next
meeting so Staff can check into it a little more. He said he
has other concerns such as the request for compact parking and
the fact that he's not sure it's a public alley. He said he
would like to review the application. Chairman Master opened
the public hearing.
Carol Robinson and Richard Shudow, representing the applicant,
asked what information they should have. Commissioner Greek
asked if they could supply the dedicated width of the alley to
verify that there is adequate turning radius from the alley
into the parking spaces. Mr. Shudow said he doesn't know the
exact measurement but it appears to be 20'. Ms. Robinson said
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page ivineteen
the alley is a private alley but Century American has an easement.
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Scott, that
this item be continued to the February 20 meeting.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Chairman Hart advised Ms. Robinson and Mr. Shudow to check with
Mr. Lane as to his concerns.
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
TENTATIVE PARCEL MAP 84-770 - ASHWILL HAWKINS AND PARTNERS
Proposed subdivision of 3.4 acres into six lots in the M-2 zone
at the southwest corner of Southern Avenue and Pacific Street.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 966 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Lane made the presentation. Commissioner Greek said he is
wondering about the procedure and he would rather the developer
sold the buildings first and then subdivided because he thinks
He said he would
market will dictate what can be built
th
.
e
prefer to see a site plan and then have a parcel map follow it.
Mr. Lane said that when there are ones handled that way, the
Planning Department ends up needing a parcel map, and then having
the property owners rent to occupancies that are offices rather
than industrial, and asking why they can't have offices, which
also creates problems for the Planning Department. He said that
with this system the Planning Commission is dealing with one lot,
one developer, and one building permit, and it is possible to
make the developer understand that it's an industrial area and
he will need a conditional use permit for office usage.
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Review Board to file Negative Declaration 966.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Greek, seconded by Commissioner Hart, that
the Planning Commission recommend approval of Tentative Parcel
Map 84-770, subject to conditions detailed in the Department of
Public Works tentative parcel map application.
AYES: Commissioners Master, Greek, Hart, Mason, Scott
NOES: None MOTION CARRIED
Planning Commission Minutes
February 4, 1985
Page Twenty
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 11:00
meeting on Wednesday, February 20,
Civic Center Council Chambers, 300
California.
p.m. to reconvene to a regular
1985, at 7:30 p.m.y at the
East Chapman Avenue, Orange,