HomeMy WebLinkAbout4/16/1984 - Minutes PC
Q City of Orange
____ Orange, California
April 16, 1984
Monday, 7:30 p.m.
The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called to order
by Chairman Hart at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez
STAFF Jere P. Murphy, Administrator of Current Planning and Commission
PRESENT: Secretary; Jack McGee, Associate Planner; Gary Johnson, City Engineer;
Gene Minshew, Assistant City Attorney; and Toba Wheeler, Recording
Secretary.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1984
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Mason, to
approve the minutes of April 2, 1984, as transmitted.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
- NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED OR WITHDRAWN
ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 5-84
Amendment to the Zoning Ordinance establishing interior noise standards
for the industrial area.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 898 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Murphy said Staff recommends this be continued inde~'initely and
it be allowed to readvertise it and modify it to include commercial as
well as industrial zones in terms of creating an interior noise standard.
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
Ordinance Amendment 5-84 be continued indefinitely and Staff be author-
ized to readvertise it and modify it to include commercial as well as
industrial zones in terms of creating an interior noise standard.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
NOES:
ABSENT: None
Commissioners Greek, Vasquez
MOTION
CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
ZONE CHANGE 1012, CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT 1336 - ST. JOSEPH HOSPITAL
Request to change the zoning from RM-7 to PI (Public Insti tutional),
and to expand existing hospital facilities on a 1.08-acre parcel
located on the south side of Palmyra Avenue, east of Main Street.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 890 has been prep ared for this project.
PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
Page Two
Mr. Murphy explained that this is fbr the expansion of St. Joseph
Hospital's complex and showed the proposed expansion on the map
posted on the board behind the Planning Commission. He said Staff
has previously expressed concerns for the development of the parcels
that have been acquired by the hospital along the south side of
Palmyra. He traced the history of .the expansion of St. Joseph
Hospital from the original building to the present facility and said
that Staff is concerned with the difficult design problem in terms
of attempting to provide adequate vehicular and pedestrian circula-
tion to users in the Palmyra area with the major site of the parking
structure to the south, a residential street to the north, apartments
to the north of that street,. and a single-family tract to the east
that could be adversely affected, particularly by an increased number
of cars passing through the tract as well as possible parking overspill
from hospital usage. Staff has therefore asked the hospital in the
past to treat the matter of access from Palmyra very carefully and
attempt to use the circulation system to the west as much as possible
to achieve access to both the parking structure and the future uses
in that area. Staff had anticipated that a service drive around the
west edge of the property, which is part of the circulation system
of the emergency service route, would end up being the only access to
the building for pedestrians. The hospital now wishes to use an
entrance directly from Palmyra, indicating they would like to have
limited-time parking at that location. Staff does not feel that
limited-time parking or parking in general on Palmyra would be able
to be policed adequately by the City and therefore wishes not to
feed that entrance directly from Palmyra but access to be taken either
from the south side of the building from the parking structure or, if
necessary, from the west end of the building only. That way, it is
hoped that parking; if it does overflow, would not move into the
single-family tract to the east any more than necessary or even into
the apartment area across the street to the north. Staff therefore
has recommended approval of the conditional use permit for the
expansion of the hospital and the zone change to the PI district with
19 conditions, condition #1 being the elimination of the drop-off and
access entry directly from Palmyra.
Robyn Ravgiala, Planning Director of St. Joseph Hospital, said she
appreciated the work done by the Planning Staff with suggestions and
assistance in making sure the hospital expansion would not impact
the neighborhood any more than was absolutely necessary. She said
the hospital planning department met with three of the more active
community representatives in the Palmyra area, showed them the plans
and received some very helpful suggestions from them. In response
to Chairman'Hart's question as to whether she was familiar with
Staff's condition regarding the Palmyra access, she said if it is
absolutely necessary the hospital can. live with it since the hospital
does not wish the surrounding residences to be extraordinarily impacted
by the hospital expansion, even though it would be very helpful for
the hospital to have one or two ten- or fifteen-minute drop-off
C
C
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
Page Three
spaces in that area. She said the hospital also realizes that the
exercise court is an area that could create some extra noise and
it feels it is important to make sure there is no noise problem for
the neighborhood from volleyball or basketball games. However it
is important for ambulatory patients to be outside and therefore
she requested if it would be possible to change the closing time for
the. exercise court, specified in Condition #2, from 6:00 p.m. to
"dusk," pointing out that since there is no lighting there, the
court could not be used at night.
Discussion followed between Chairman Hart and Ms. Ravgiala concerning
the employee parking situation at the hospital prior to the expansion
of the parking structure when employees were parking at a leased
facility behind Bullock's Department Store. and were bused to the
hospital. During that period some employees who did not wish to
park so far away and be bused were parking in .metered spaces on
Stewart Drive and moving their cars to another space when the limited
parking time had expired. Chairman Hart was under the impression
that the hospital had been charging the employees for parking. Ms.
Ravgiala said the hospital had never charged for parking and only
those employees who had refused to take advantage of the Bullock's.
parking lot and the busing service had parked on Stewart Drive.
She pointed out that the busing was necessary ,because the parking
structure at that time could not hold all the employees, but since
the addition of 1100, spaces to the parking structure: at a cost of
nearly six million dollars, which addition has been in full use
since January of this year, there is room for all employees to park
in the parking structure.
In response to Commissioner
St. Joseph Hospital had a m
make-up of the St. Joseph c
Hospital itself. 2) There
is the System of St. Joseph
Orange County.' Only the ho
this proposed Ordinance Ame
some property and a retire
Sisters have no master plan
of property acquisition iss
Palmyra but they had not ac
were offered to them at suc
was wise to purchase them s
were also offered other hog
Master's question as to wnetner or not
ester plan, Ms. Ravgiala clarified the
~mplex as follows: 1) There is St. Joseph
is the Sisters of St. Joseph. 3) There
4) There is Children's Hospital of
>pital itself is requesting~~expansion in
~dment. The Sisters of St. Joseph have
ant home adjacent to the hospital. The
and have no intent to go into any kind
ae. They recently bought two houses on
Lively sought to buy these houses. They
~ good prices that the Sisters thought it
ince they might be able to use them. They
yes which they did not purchase because
they were priced inappropriately. iney nave no ac~ive ~~ ~NC~~~~~
plan to develop property; they purchased only the two houses that
were offered to them because they were adjacent to property they
already own. The System of St. Joseph is an umbrella or holding
company that provides group services to ten hospitals owned by the
Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange. They have no master plan because
they awn no land; they simply occupy a building adjacent to the
retirement home. St. Joseph Hospital does have a master plan and
has had it for several years. The .hospital planning department
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
Page Four
meets with the City Planning Department Staff twice a year to go over
the master plan, show the City what it has in mind as to adjustments
or changes relating to health care, and what it plans to do. This
particular building is to follow through on a master site plan that
was discussed with the parking structure expansion three or four
years ago. Children's Hospital of Orange County is a completely
separate entity. St. Joseph Hospital provides Children's Hospital
with some specific services for which Children's Hospital doesn't
have its own equipment or space. Children's Hospital does have a
master plan and it~~s incumbent upon them to make the Planning
Commission aware of it. Ms. Ravgiala said she can't speak for
Children's Hospital or for any of the other entities in the area
that are not controlled by St. Joseph Hospital, and she stressed
again that St. Joseph Hospital's master plan -has been made very
visible to City Staff on a number of occasions. She offered to
show it to the Planning Commission and discuss with the Commission
where the hospital has been, where it is going and what it hopes
to accomplish.
Commissioner Master said that it seems the area is so inter-related,
particularly so because of ingress and egress in parking, that it
would be appropriate for the main bodies to get together and do
some master planning so that Staff as well as the hospital can be
looking forward to certain development activities and trends. He
said this particular expansion under discussion might turn out to
be an inappropriate location four years from now when the hospital
looks at another piece of property.
Ms. Ravgiala said that having paid $35,000 to an outside consultant
to look at the hospital's plans and state whether or not they are
appropriate to its long-range site plan, and having been told that
they are appropriate, the hospital is happy with them..: She ~aid.she
realized the set-up in the area might be confusing because there
are so many different entities involved. She reiterated that the
System of St. Joseph has no capacity to have a master plan; that
the Sisters of St. Joseph are a group of retired people who are
mainly concerned with being good neighbors but if someone offers
them property that seems like a good buy they will take advantage
of it, but~they also do not have a master plan; and that therefore
the issue or responsibility rests between St. Joseph Hospital and
Children's Hospital, both of which have shared their master plans
with-each other, but she is not in a position to know whether or
not Children's Hospital has shown its master plan to the City.
It was suggested by Commissioner Mason that it would be a good idea
to have a presentation made by the hospitals at a study session.
Both Chairman Hart and Mr. Murphy expressed agreement with this
suggestion, Mr. Murphy stating that the Commission might benefit
from the same kind of periodic presentations that Staff has been
receiving from St. Joseph Hospital.
C
O
Planning Commission Minutes
Apri l 16,1984
Page Five
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission accept the findings of the Environmental
Impact Report to file Negative Declaration 890.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Mason, that
the Planning Commission recommend approval of Zone Change 1012 for
the reasons stated by Staff and Conditional Use Permit 1336 with
the conditions imposed by Staff, with the change in Condition #2
from 6:00 p.m. to dusk, relating to the closing time of the exercise
court.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
Moved by Comm issioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Master, that
the Planning Commission have a study session on St. Joseph Hospital
and Children' s Hospital of Orange County on May 15 at 5:00 p.m.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 3-84
Amendment to the Zoning Ordinance establishing regulations for
satellite dishes.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 896 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Murphy said this proposal is to allow operable satellite dishes
within residential, commercial and industrial areas as long as they
are kept basically in rear yard areas or out of sight of the general
public or out of sight from the public street system in the City.
The amendment also proposes to restrict the use of satellite dishes
in commercial and industrial zones to that of operating receivers
only, again screened from view of the public. No display of receivers
in parking lots, such as those which exist presently on both Tustin
Street and Main Street, would be allowed under the proposed ordinance.
Those two satellite dishes are used primarily as advertising devices,
as signs for the commercial. uses at those locations. Again, the
proposal is two-fold: basically to regulate the present improper
use of the satellite dishes as advertising devices and secondly to
allow the dishes as a means of receiving transmitted signals in all
of the zones of the city in residential, commercial and industrial
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
Page Six
areas as long as they are not visible from the public right-of-way.
Staff recommends approval of this amendment on to the City Council.
Gay Hamilton, Hamilton Satellite Systems, Santa Ana, addressed the
Commission and said satellite dishes, or antennas, are by their very
nature required to "see" the satellite in order to pick up the signals
and therefore cannot be hidden in all cases. He said they are used
for the same purpose as TV antenna on a roof, primarily as a means
of gathering data not for advertising purposes, and that if the City
objected to those that are used for advertising then the ordinance
should just speak to that problem. He questioned the morality of
the ordinance as proposed and asked if there was some form of permit
necessary to install satellite dishes in the City of Orange.
Chairman Hart said there is no provision of that nature as far as he
knows but it may be a part of the building permit or possibly an
inspection is required, in which case there might be an inspection
fee. He said the ordinance is for esthetic reasons; it doesn't
prohibit the installation of satellite dishes but merely requires
that they be screened and that they not be used for advertising. He
said some people feel the dishes are a visual intrusion and there is
also the problem of people who sell the dishes parking them in front
of their building on a trailer and using them as an advertising sign.
Mr. Murphy said the proposed ordinance is very similar to ordinances
in several other cities in Orange County and in many other parts of
California, some of which are more restrictive than this ordinance.
He said Staff had done quite a bit of work with the other cities and
quite a bit of researching before proposing this amendment and think
it is relatively fair and can be accommodated in most locations.
Mr. Hamilton said that if the dishes are screened with anything
smaller than 2"-mesh they would not be able to pick up the signals
from the satellite, yet anything as large as 2"-mesh would not hide
them from public view. He also questioned the maximum of 12' set as
a limit in the proposed ordinance, saying that 12' is the minimum-
sized dish that should be sold. Chairman Hart asked where the 12'
limit came from and Mr. Murphy responded that it came from the
largest-size dish in existence at the present time for most commercial
and industrial use. Mr. Hamilton disagreed with this and explained
how a dish operates, the changes that will take place late this .year
or early next year in the satellite system which will make a 12' dish
not uncommon but actually almost the standard of the industry nation-
wide, and said that TV stations and cable systems use dishes that
are 27' to 30' in diameter. He offered to give the Commission a
demonstration at any time to show how the dish works and why. screening
would affect it.
Chris Christianson, Far West Industries Cal-Video, sa~id~,the dish on
Tustin that contains advertising is there on only a temporary basis
because of some construction going on, but the dish on Main Street
is indeed being used for advertising and has been cited by the sign
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
Page Seven
Q ordinance for that area but has not been removed because the citation
has not been enforced. He said there were others on Tustin used for
advertising and they have been removed on orders from the sign ordin-
ance man. Mr. Christianson said he has already 'installed six satellite
dish systems in Orange and has four more under contstruction, and
restricting the size of the antenna to 12' in diameter will limit
the use of the installations within the City. He said the majority
of satellite dishes are installed in good taste and offered.-his help
in demonstrating the operation of these dishes to the Commission.
Chairman Hart said he felt the Commission needed some technical adv ice
and asked Mr. Hamilton and Mr. Christianson if they could review the
proposed ordinance and get their comments and suggestions to the Staff
by May 1 so Staff could then make another proposed amendment to the
Commission for the May 7 meeting. Both men agreed to do this.
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Master, to
postpone a decision on Ordinance Amendment 3-84 until the meeting of
May 7 and in the meantime receive information from the experts in
this field on how the City can solve the problem of esthetics regarding
these satellite dishes.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
1. Request from Cunningham Development Corporation for direction in
how to proceed in development of the vacant parcel adjacent to the
east side of the Orange Freeway, south of Almond Avenue, with a
mini-warehouse project.
Mr. McGee presented this to the Commission and referred to the memo
from Staff on April 4 and the subsequent memo on April 12 from Bob
Mickelson, planning consultant. He said that under the existing
ordinance in the City this type of use is allowed only in industrial
or C-2 zones. The Staff memo transmitted a copy of Mr. Cunningham's
letter of March 22, requesting the consideration of the use of this
parcel for mini-warehouses, in which he explained his reasons, and
the Staff memo recommended that the Planning Commission authorize
an ordinance amendment to allow mini-warehouses on this parcel.
Mr. Mickelson's memo enlarged upon the reasons presented by Mr.
Cunningham. All three of these documents were included in the agenda
package presented to the Planning Commission. Mr. McGee pointed out
that this parcel is presently zoned for a Mobile Home Park and that
there are condominiums and single-family homes directly adjacent to
the property.
Commissioner Mason asked if there are a lot of these areas in the City
and Mr. McGee responded that this is the only vacant mobile-home-zoned
property in the City.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
/~""*, Page Eight
Chairman Hart expressed
home parks were forced
thing again with a site
home park.
concern that in the past two other mobile
to close and he doesn't want to do the same
that is supposed to be developed as a mobile
Mr. Cunningham addressed the Commission and said he is not just an
applicant hoping to develop some property he hasn't already purchased,
but has held title to this property for eight months and originally
planned to develop it for residential use but realized the location
is not conducive to a satisfactory residential environment. because
of the sound problems. He said he has talked to the condominium
association, an apartment association, and a cohvalescent hospital
in the area and they are not averse to having mini-warehouses; in
fact they feel this type of development will result in providing
somewhat. of a sound barrier for them against the noise from the
freeway, and they offered their assistance in any way.
Chairman Hart again mentioned the problems with the mobile home park
dislocations and said it would be necessary to find a way of doing
this that would be palatable from a technical standpoint. He,suggested
a specific mini-warehouse zone because the problem is in allowing mini-
warehouses on property zoned for mobile homes.
Mr. Mickelson suggested writing in some criteria; for example, saying
that the site would have to be vacant, even though zoned for a mobile
home park, as opposed to the other two cases where the mobile home
parks were already established. Commissioner Mason asked Mr. Mickelson
how this has been handled in other cities and he responded that he
didn't know but would be willing to do some research on it.
Moved by Commissioner Mason~~ seconded by Commissioner Master, to
authorize Staff to work with Mr. Mickelson to come up with a recom-
mendation to allow mini-warehouses in the. City of Orange.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS
ORDINANCE AMENDMENT 4-84
Amendment to the Zoning Ordinance allowing the Design Review Board
and City Council to decrease permitted dimensions for signs and
increase minimum landscape areas.
NOTE: Negative Declaration 897 has been prepared for this project.
Mr. Murphy said this is a proposal to provide authorization in the
Municipal Code that will allow the Design Review Board and the City
Council to approve signs that are smaller than those otherwise stated
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
Page Nine
in the Sign Ordinance and also to require additional landscaping
beyond that which is required as a standard item in the Code. The
City Council has adopted sign guidelines prepared by the Design
Review Board which, along with the Code amendment, would provide
the City with the ability to enforce those requirements when the
City Council or the Design Review Board asked for the greater
restrictions on sign size or the additional amount of landscaping
beyond what the Code requires under standard conditions. He said
this would allow for an enforcement procedure which is presently
not available in those special cases when the Design Review Board
and the City Council wish to place those restrictions that go beyond
what the Code presently allows.
Chairman Hart asked if the sign ordinance and the landscape ordinance
are not adequate or are over-generous, then why aren't those ordinances
changed so that they meet whatever the Design Review Board and the
City Council want. He said he sees a danger in this proposed amend-
ment in that it puts the situation back to making individual decisions
on applications. Mr. Murphy said it would not be in every case or
even in the majority of cases. Chairman Hart repeated that if there
are standards set allowing a maximum-size sign and minimum-size land-
scaping, then he sees a problem in having a person make an application
knowing what these standards are~and then having the Design Review
Board say that his sign is too big and his landscaping is inadequate.
Mr. Murphy responded that that is true; however, the City Council
could prevent this from happening and this ordinance would enable the
City to enforce what the Design Review Board is doing rather than
having them take the action without enforcement power. He said the
City Council has also asked for this ordinance.
Commissioner Mason said that there are standards already established.
Chairman Hart said this amendment would give them the right to violate
those standards. Mr. Minshew said if an application was refused the
Design Review Board would have to give its reasons for refusing.
He said that in the recent court decision (City of Indio v, Arroyo,
143 Cal App. 3d 151, 5-11-83) quoted by Staff in the Negative Declara-
tion, there were certain standards but'the granting of`i;hem was
discretionary.
Moved by Chairman Hart, seconded by Mr. Master, that the Planning
Commission recommend denial of .Ordinance Amendment 4-84 because the
applicant should be aware of the rules and a decision should not be
based on an arbitrary ruling.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Master
NOES: Commissioner Mason
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Mason said she voted against the motion because she
feels that there are so many different situations that come before
the Design Review Board and she is willing to leave those matters in
their hands.
c
0
Planning Commission Minutes
April 16, 1984
Page Ten
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
DISCUSSION ITEM - DENSITY
Discussion of areas to be included in "developable area" in
computing density for project proposals.
DISCUSSION ITEM - ACCESS ROADS
Discussion of including (or excluding) access easements and
accessways on flag lots from minimum lot area requirements.
Chairman Hart said he feels all five commissioners should be
present for the discussion of these two items.
Mr. Mickelson said he was interested in Item #1 because of
working with the Y.M.C.A. on a project, and they are concerned
with how they will answer the question of density on their
project. He suggested a study session and asked if this item
could be included in the study session set for April 30, since
he will be attending that anyway.
Moved by Commissioner Mason, seconded by Commissioner Master,
that these two miscellaneous items be continued to the study
session of April 30 and the meeting of May 7.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mason, Master
NOES: None
ABSENT: Commissioners Greek, Vasquez MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 pm., to a study session on
April 30, 1984, at 5:00 p.m.; and to reconvene at a regular
meeting on Monday, May 7, 1984, at 7:30 p.m., at the Civic
Center Council Chambers, 300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange,
California.
u