HomeMy WebLinkAbout4/4/1983 - Minutes PCPLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
City of Orange
Orange, California
April 4, 1983
Monday, 7:30 p.m.
The regular meeting of the Orange City Planning Commission was called to order
by Chairman Hart at 7:30 p.m.
PRESENT: Commissioners Coontz, Hart, Master, Mickelson, Vasquez
ABSENT: Commissioners none
STAFF Jere P. Murphy, Administrator of Current Planning and Commission
PRESENT: Secretary; Norvin Lanz, Associate Planner; Gene Minshew, Assistant
City Attorney; Gary Johnson, City Engineer; Bert K. Yamasaki,
Director of Planning & Development Services; Bernie Dennis,.
Traffic Engineer; and Doris Ofsthun, Recording Secretary.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IN RE: APPROVAL OF MINUTES FOR MARCH 21, 1983
Commissioner Coontz asked fora correction to the minutes on
page 10 at the bottom of the page, where the vote count was
omitted. The vote was unanimous.
Commissioner Mickelson commented on a statement supposedly made
by him in the next to the last paragraph: "...what Mr. Jacobs
tells his tenants is no business of the Commission or the public.",
saying that if he spoke that harshly, he did not mean to. The
question which was asked was whether Mr. Jacobs had given written
notice to his tenants and he felt that this was not the particular
issue before the Commission and, therefore, should not be considered
by them, or words to that effect.
Moved by Commissioner Vasquez, seconded by Commissioner Mickelson
to approve the minutes of March 21, 1983, as corrected.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Hart, Master, Mickelson, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: NEW HEARINGS:
ZONE CHANGE 993 - CITY OF ORANGE
A proposal to rezone property from the C-2 (.General Business)
District to the MH (Mobile Home) District on property located
on the south side of Lincoln Avenue 208.5± feet east of the center-
line of Berkeley Street (300 West Lincoln Avenue, Mobile Ritz
Mobile Home Park). (Note: This project is exempt from Environmental
Review.)
Chairman Hart explained that inasmuch as this application had been
before the Commission before and a presentation given and Commission
Vasquez, who was absent at that meeting, had listened to the taped
transcripts of that hearing, it was the consensus of the Commission
that no presentation was needed.
Mr. Murphy pointed out that two letters had been received by Staff
in this matter, both letters coming from residents of the mobile
home park.
Chairman Hart opened the public hearing.
Planning Commission h1inutes
April 4,.1983
Page Two
0
Mary Arceola, 300 West Lincoln Avenue, Orange, addressed the
Commission, explaining that she has been a resident of the Mobile
Ritz Mobile Home Park for the past two years. She was a former
resident of Lamplighter Mobile Home Park before it was closed
down and lost several thousand d-liars when she was forced to move.
She said that she was neither in favor of or opposed to the zone
change, she only wished to keep the park a mobile home park.
Frank G. Jacobs, 2813 N. Annapolis St., Santa Ana, addressed the
Commission in opposition to this zone change. He explained that
he is the son of Dan Jacobs, the owner of the mobile home park, and
that he is the one who stands to lose the most if there is a zone
change to mobile home zoning. He handed out a packet of informational
material to the Commission members, including a three page letter
stating his views in this regard. Included in the packet was a copy
of a letter dated March 22, 1983 addressed to the residents of the
Mobile Ritz Mobile Home Park, indicating when meetings would be
held at the park to discuss this proposed zone change and inviting
the residents to these meetings.
In his letter, Mr. Jacobs explained the mobile home park was built
in 1958, which makes it 25 years old now and it has become obsolete,
being unable to accommodate the newer and larger mobile homes which
are being sold now. He pointed out that his father is dedicated to
the upkeep and upgrading of this park within the limits of economic
good sense and this has kept it a desirable place to live, despite
having been bypassed in the industry.
However, Mr. Jacobs does not share that same dedication to the park
and when the time comes that his parents are no longer able or willing
to mange the park, he will be faced with three alternatives:
1. Develop the land
2. Sell the park, or
3. Continue the park as an absentee owner, in the
face of tremendous maintenance, repair, re-
placement and management expenditures.
He pointed out in his letter that the City, by downzoning this.
property, proposes to take away the first alternative, greatly
reduce the value with the second alternative and force him to
~ accept either the third alternative or accept a greatly reduced
sales proceeds. He felt that the City was proposing to take away
something of value from his family, without any suggestion of
just compensation.
Mr. Jacobs' letter also explained that many of their tenants do not
support this action and have voiced their opposition, which letters
are included in the packet handed out to the Commission members.
Chairman Hart explained that by receiving this packet of informa-
tion at such a late date, it would be difficult for the Commission
to use this information on which to base their decision. Commissioner
Coontz agreed with this statement, further explaining how difficult
it is to make a decision when a packet is handed to them at such a
late date.
Mr. Jacobs hoped that the Commissioners would take the time to read
through his packet and reflect on the information therein. The
question was asked as to how many residents of the mobile home park
had signed the statement which was given to the Commissioners opposing
this zone change and the answer was 22. There are 78 sites in the
'~ park.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 4, 1983
Page Three
A short period of time was given to the Commissioners by Chairman
Hart to peruse the packet regarding this zone change and ref]ect
on the information therein.
Dan Jacobs, 300 West Lincoln Avenue, Orange, the owner of the
Mobile Ritz Mobile Home Park, addressed the Commission, showing
them an aerial view map of the area and pointing out all of the
areas which are commercially zoned surrounding the park. He
explained that they are surrounding almost totally by commercially
zoned property. He apologized for the lateness of their letter
and explained the difficulties they had encountered in putting
together their information.
Commissioner Coontz observed that she had had phone calls from
several people who would not speak in opposition to this zone change
because they were afraid. She pointed out that at the last hearing
on this matter she felt that the people were dared to speak in
opposition to this zone change. She felt an intimidation there on
the part of the owner. Mr. Jacobs totally disagreed with this
statement, pointing out that he had offered to leave the council
chambers in order that people might feel free to speak however they
-might wish to speak. Commissioner Coontz observed that this is an
older mobile home park and many of the people who live there are
elderly and afraid to speak because they are afraid their rent will
be increased if they do. She said that she had to express her con-
cerns in this regard because she felt that someone must stand up
for them.
Commissioner Vasquez agreed with Commissioner Coontz that this kind
of atmosphere had prevailed at the last hearing.
Vickie Talley, 17845 Skypark Circle, Ste. J, Irvine, representing
the Mobile Home Park Owners of Orange County, addressed the Commission
in opposition to this zone change. She explained that she had not
been present at the last hearing, nor had she listened to the taped
transcripts from that hearing and, therefore, did not know what had
occurred during that hearing. However, she was here at this time to
look at the planning process and find the best way to make that
planning process come about. She felt that the duty of the Commissioners
was to plan for the highest and best use of the land in the County.
She thought that Mr. Jacobs had made quite an effort to have contact
with the residents of his mobile home park. She asked if the letters
which had been received were in favor of or in opposition to the
proposed zone change. It was explained to her that one letter had
been in opposition and the other was neither, but expressed the desire
for mobile home owners' rights to be considered, since they are not
transitory people. The writer of that letter, Mrs . Arceol a, had
already addressed the Commission this evening.
Ms. Talley pointed out that there has been plenty of advertisement
about this hearing and people have the right to come here and make
their views known. She explained that she wished to speak to good
planning. She then went on to observe that this property had been
annexed in 1963 and, at that time, it was a mobile home park. At
that time the park owners were in favor of the annexation, knowing
that they would be zoned Commercial. Other property owners- came
in asking fora zone change in that area, but it was kept zoned
Commercial. It is very clear to her that it is meant to be Commercial.
Ms. Talley said that she looks at a piece of property such as this
as a.resource. This is an older park and will probably not be a
mobile home park forever. Therefore, it is a resource to the .City
of Orange if it is used well. She could see the property used as
a senior citizens' center, which would be very useful and helpful.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 4, 1983
Page Four
She brought out that the City Council's direction was that the
General Plan Land Use Element should be reviewed for consistency
and appropriateness of use and she felt that clearly here is a
use that is not at all appropriate for the area surrounding it.
Ms. Talley commended Commissioner Coontz and the rest of the
Commission for recommending an ordinance at the last meeting
which would cover the dislocation of residents from mobile home
parks when there would be a change of use. She also pointed out
that it had been specifically stated that mobile home zoning did
not mean that it was a permanent protection and solution for the
mobile home residents,
She said that clearly Mr. Jacobs had impressed her that he has
made every effort to keep communications open with his residents.
He plans to keep maintaing a well run park and keeping his residents
happy. Regarding the Staff's recommendations in the Staff Report,
she concurred with Recommendation #1, to deny the zone change without
prejudice.
Commissioner Coontz expressed concern about the continual references
to the duties of the Commissioners, explaining that their major
concern most of the time is with the health, safety and welfare of
the citizens of Orange. She pointed out that there would not be any
reason to be concerned with land use if they were not concerned with
people, which is a greater resource than land.
Ms. Talley said that her concern is whether the Commissioners deal
with a problem, not as a popularity vote, but as to the highest and
best use. She agreed with Commissioner Coontz that the Commission
should be concerned with the entire community.
There being no one else to speak for or against this zone change,
the Chairman closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Master pointed out that there is always a warning in all
of these hearings that this zoning is not permanent. He pointed out
that no zoning is permanent and felt concern that this is stressed
only in the mobile home zone change cases. He did not understand
why such emphasis is put on this particular situation.
Commissioner Coontz pointed out that though this seems like an
emotional reaction at this time, the. Council and the Commission have
been studying this issue for a long time to come up with the best
solution for all concerned. Even though the park owner feels that
the greatest impact from the zone change would be the impact upon him
as an individual, she felt that the greatest impact would be the
aggregate - that is the impact not to just one individual, but to
many individuals who cannot or will not speak for themselves, and
perhaps do not know how. She felt that,. as a Planning Commissioner,
it was her duty to take care of not only the land area, but the
people area, believing in. free enterprise and the rights of the
individual property owner. However, the people have rights also.
Commissioner Mickelson asked Mr. Minshew about the new law which was
effective January 1,-1983, which defines change of use, wondering
if that change of use definition was different than what was there
previously. The reason he asked this question was because the last
line states: "change of use includes, but is not limited to a
change of the park, or a portion thereof, to a condominium or
co-operative planned unit development, or any form of ownership
wherein spaces are to be sold," Mr. Minshew thought that this was
the same. Commissioner Mickelson said that the motion which was
passed on to the Council in regard to Park Royale stated that even
closure of a park without a reuse constitutes change of use and,
therefore, requires a Tenant Relocation Plan.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 4, 1983
Page Five
U
Commissioner Coontz stated that there was one resolution that
the Council approved which included many policy suggestions.
So the motion was to ask the Council to study those two particular
ideas which she had picked out for ordinances. However, that does
not say that they will do this.
Moved by Commissioner Mickelson,.
to recommend to the City Council
prejudice and implement the City
use, closure or reversion to acre
Tenant Dislocation Impact Report
Assistance Plan.
seconded by Commissioner Vasquez
denial of Zone Change 993 without
Council policy that a change of
'age requires preparation of a
and, possibly, a Tenant Relocation
Commissioner Mickelson explained that he found nothing new and
different in tonight's hearing that would change his opinion.
In reading over Mr. Jacobs' letter, he had made an attempt to
remain objective.. However, he pointed out that he would have the
opportunity to seek a zone change at any time.
~ Commissioner Vasquez commented that in listening to the tape of the
previous meeting .and in listening to tonight's testimony, he con-
curred with some of Commissioner Mickelson's reasons for his motion.
However, he wanted to say that he considered it quite unfortunate
that with the scenario which this item has generated, either false
or true - that is the fear of some of the tenants to come here and
speak before the Commission could put them in jeopardy, he thought
that the action taken at the last meeting - the recommendation of
an ordinance to .the Council, was a very strong step in the right
direction to create a more reasonable assurance for those people who
live in that park. He wished to state that his vote was not predi-
cated on economic factors, because he does not consider that relevant
to his decision and to good, sound planning.
AYES: Commissioners Hart, Mickelson, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners Coontz, Master
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
PRE-ZONE CHANGE 997 - CITY OF ORANGE:
A proposal to rezone property from County E-4-1 (Small Estates)
District to City R-1-40 (Single-Family Residential - minimum lot
size 40,000 square feet) District on land located on the east side
of Kennymead Street between Santiago Canyon Road and Randall Street.
(Note: This project is exempt from Environmental Review.)
Norvin Lanz presented this app lication to the Commission, stating
that the properties contain 22,8 acres of land and are located on
the east side of Kennymead Street between Santiago Canyon Road and
Randall Street. The properties are zoned by the County of Orange
as E-4-1 or "Small Estates" District, minimum lot size - 1 acre.
A71 existing lots conform to that minimum lot size.
Mr. Lanz explained that the owners of five parcels sought to connect
to City sewers and the remaining parcel owners were polled to deter-
mine their interest in annexing. Only one owner in this annexation
area expressed opposition. It was pointed out that Santiago Canyon
Road is a primary arterial with a planned width of 100 feet and
Kennymead Street is a local street with a width of 55 feet.
The Land Use Element of the General Plan Study (1973) designates
the properties for 1 acre minimum Low-Density Residential. The
City Code 17.06.120 permits the City to prezone properties prior
to annexation.
Staff has reviewed the project area and has no specific concerns.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 4, 1983
Page Six
f
It is recommended that Zone Change 997 be recommended to the
City Council for approval for the reason that R-1-40 zoning
allows for the lowest density single-family residential district
which is consistent with the Land Use Element of the General Plan.
Chairman Hart opened the public hearing.
Richard Seibert, 1388 Kennymead, addressed the Commission, stating
that he is not opposed to the prezone change, but had questions in
this regard. He was told that R-1-40 was the largest designation
the City has and wondered if this was true. He was told that this
was so. He pointed out that this area is currently zoned for 1 acre
parcels and wondered if this is annexed to the City of Orange, how
do the people living across from this area see that it is kept in
1-acre estates. Chairman Hart explained that one acre amounts to
43,000 sq, ft. and this will be zoned 40,000 sq. ft. Mr. Murphy
also explained that in Orange Park Acres there is a policy that
requires one acre parcels.
Mr. Seibert asked if someone wanted to subdivide and put two units
on one acre, would they have to come to the Commission on an in-
dividual basis? He was told that they would.
There being no one else to speak for or against this application,
the Chairman closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Mickelson asked why the other three parcels on Santiago
Canyon Road were not included in this prezone change and Mr. Murphy
responded that the entire area was surveyed and the annexation was
prepared based on the response from the residents in that area.
There is still some opposition in that area.
~J
Moved by Commissioner Master, seconded by Commissioner Vasquez to
recommend approval of Pre-Zone Change 997, for the reasons as
stated in the Staff Report.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Hart, Master, Mickelson, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
IN RE: MISCELLANEOUS
MASTER PLAN OF ARTERIAL HIGHWAYS - CITY OF ORANGE:
Information and discussion of JEF Engineering report on the
Master Plan of Arterial Highways.
v
Bernie Dennis gave a brief overview as to why the Master Plan
is being presented tonight, stating that there were a number of
events and circumstances that led to the study which is being
reviewed tonight, first being the Master Plans of Streets and
Highways originally adopted in the early 60's in concert with
other similar adoptions by other cities in the County of Orange.
He explained that there have been some significant changes in
the plan, but a comprehensive analysis of the original plan has
not been undertaken since the original adoption. A second key
event leading to the study was a proposed street widening project
presented to the City Council approximately two years ago. This
proposal led to some questions from residents and the Council as
to what direction the City was heading, specifically with regard
to Walnut and Cambridge. He explained that the SOS (Save Our
Streets) Committee and a number of other concerned residents
presented a proposal to the Council asking for the removal of
Walnut and Cambridge from the Master Plan to be placed on the
November 1982 ballot as an initiative.
Planning Commission Minutes
April 4, 1983
Page Seven
He explained that consideration of this proposal by Council was
continued to the meeting of May 11th, at which time they took two
actions, first directing the Staff to start proceedings necessary to
remove Cambridge from the Master Plan of Arterial Highways and,
secondly, dictating that Staff retain a transportation engineering
consultant to evaluate the Master Plan of Arterial Highways in
its entirety. .Council gave two directions to the Staff and the
consultant:
1. That extraordinary notification procedures be employed
to advise all residents of the city of the study.
2. That extensive public input be solicited as part of
the study and documented in the project report.
Mr. Dennis explained that one other criteria in this report was that
it was not to be necessarily lengthy, but concise and easy to
understand. He pointed out that they would welcome any input or
comments made by .the Commission, to go into the report to the City
Council.
Joe Faust, the transportation engineering consultant, gave an
overview of the study. At this paint, Commissioner Coontz asked
what relationship this has to the core study which was done of the
downtown area and Mr. Faust explained that this is different and
has a different focus.
This study was initiated specifically to look at Cambridge and
Walnut Streets. The Council felt that if anything was to be done
to the Master Plan then the entire Master Plan should be studied
for adequacy. They used all available information and utilized the
original travel models for projection of future growth.
Mr. Faust explained that a notice and questionnaire was sent out to
the citizens of Orange. This gave them information regarding where
people went to work, what streets were most frequently traveled, etc.
Lt was. also an attitudinal survey. They did not set it up to be
tabulated by a computer. They received 5,000 replies back, which
is a very good response. This was computerized and will be on file
for research and direction.
Mr. Faust said that some of the community had a misconception of the
funding in these areas. They felt that if money was not used for
one project it could be transferred to another. This is not true, as
the County allocates funds for a specific project and money is not
transferable. He explained that they used original travel models
to make travel projections.
Commissioner Vasquez pointed out statements in the report with regard
to residents of Cambridge and Walnut who were concerned about monies
allocated specifically for those streets to be shifted to nearby
streets and Mr. Faust explained that he did not think these statements
came from residents, but from members of Staff. He said that this
question had been asked of him at a public meeting.
Commissioner Master referred to page 10 of the report, reading the
first sentence to put his question into perspective, and asked if
Mr. Faust had done a sensitivety analysis of the low end density
and the high end density of the General Plan. Mr. Faust replied
the original models of which he had spoken previously, had been up-
dated in 1981. He was aware of the possibility of highrise develop-
~^ ments along Tustin Avenue and some of it was included in the model.
He said that the land use was based on the most information that was
available in 1981. The Tustin-Meats property was not included at
that time, which property seemed to be the concern of Commissioner
Plaster.
Planning Commission Minutes
Apri 1 4, 1983
Page Eight
Gary Johnson addressed the question as to whether we will lose funds
for the Glassell project if it did not proceed, explaining how the
city goes about choosing the most worthwhile projects to submit each
year for the money that is available from the County. If these
projects are not worthy then they do lose funds. He explained that
they have been submitting projects to help offset their budget, as
all other cities do.
Commissioner Coontz pointed out that the original concerns of the
citizens dealt with the widening of Glassell and nowhere in this
study do they address Glassell, She wondered why this has not been
addressed, feeling that this needs to be answered since that question
was what started all of this. The downtown area has not been addressed
at all here.
Mr. Faust felt that what precipated this study was a petition to
delete Cambridge and Walnut from the Master Plan, In the four
community meetings which were held, he recalled very little reference
to Glassell, other than that everyone pointed out that this was what
got us to studying Cambridge and Walnut. In the survey, about 50/50
people thought Glassell should be widened.
Mr. Faust said that the study has pointed out the core area growth
as only being at 1%. Prediction is 9% growth, while the north-south
corridor is at 60% growth.
Commissioner Mickelson asked if we were to assume that the possibility
exists that there would be a significant change of land use on Tustin
could that be factored into the regional model as we consider that
General Plan change at a later date? Mr. Faust answered that this
could b.e done. He then referred to the map before the Commissioners
stating that they have found that the growth of traffic in the area
will be heavil;~ oriented towards the freeways. He gave figures of
what would be traveling on the various freeways surrounding the city.
One of the conclusions of the analysis is that if the freeways could
do their job entirely then there would be considerable capacity arterially
available. Unfortunately, this is not the case. The Garden Grove
Freeway (22) is about the only one which will hold its own. All the
rest will show substantial spil]~over to the arterials, even with
the improvements projected for them. One of these arterials is
Tustin Avenue. He pointed out that Anaheim and Yorba Linda have al-
ready recognized the spillover problem from the freeway and have
made Tustin Avenue a major arterial. The same recommendation is being
made in this study.
Mr. Faust stated that one of the concerns raised by the citizens was
that they dial not want to see through traffic on Cambridge. This will
occur on Tustin, but not on Cambridge. Cambridge can, therefore, be
downgraded to a commuter class, which. would allow it to remain a two-
lane street. He felt that it should still remain on the Master Plan,
but as a commuter street. Tustin's upgrade would allow a downgrade
of Cambridge. 16% of the community indicated that they use Cambridge.
Findings of the study indicate that there is a substantial demand for
east-west travel as well, and Walnut will be needed to support growth
in the future in both the east and west portions of the city. The
study indicated that about 10% of the community uses Walnut and 7%
of the freeway traffic uses Walnut and the Orangewood freeway exchange.
One of his suggestions is that one way to help reduce traffic and
share the load between Collins and Walnut is to make the connection
between Walnut and Collins. Projection shows that volume on Walnut
will continue to grow. In the future, there will be a need to improve
Walnut to a four-lane street.
L'_
Planning Commissioner Minutes
Apri 1 4, 1983
Page Nine
L~J
Mr. Faust explained that a separate study was done on the Fashion
Square-Town & Country-Main Street area. The study was done between
the cities of Orange and Santa Ana. A recommencation was made to
construct an overpass on Lawson Way. Other recommendations included
improvements to the Grand/Glassell interchange to provide a loop
onramp for northbound to westbound traffic and a slip ramp off of
La Veta to the northbound 57 Freeway. There was also a recommenda-
tion that Main Street should be widened and upgraded to a major
status and become a modified major from La Veta north to Chapman
Avenue.
He then went over the results of the attitudinal survey, pointing out
that the questionnaire asked what types of improvements did the
community want to see. About half of the people indicated that the
major streets to some extent were a problem. They avoided Tustin
and Chapman and indicated that these streets needed to be improved.
Various types of traffic diversions were presented at the public
meetings which were held and there was little or no support for this.
About 1/3 of the people wanted to see things remain the way they are.
Half of the people would like to see street improvements and widening
'~ of some streets.
Commissioner Nickelson asked if there were names and addresses with
the surveys which came back and Mr. Faust replied in the affirmative,
saying that they broke the statistics down by areas. Commissioner
Nickelson asked if there was notable response by one geographical area
over another and Mr. Faust replied that there was not. He pointed
out that there was a good distribution citywide. He was disappointed
with regard to Walnut that he did not get much response from that
area, .Commissioner Nickelson then asked questions with regard to
Item #6 in the report, wondering if that in any way would have an
effect on the closure of the Parker/Santiago area. Mr. Faust answered
that it would definitely have an effect. This is an improvement of
the 17th. Street, Santa Ana interchange and he explained how it will
be modified to accomp]ish a right hand loop. Commissioner Nickelson
explained that he has been against the closing of streets because
the problem is then diverted somewhere else and he was afraid, in
this particular case, that this is what was done here. Mr. Faust
explained just exactly how the traffic will be diverted in this area
after the modification has been made.
Commissioner Hart asked if he could determine when the street was
blocked off where the traffic went. Mr. Faust explained that Main
Street was improved and it flows better than it did before. It
has picked up about half of the traffic which was diverted. The
rest of the traffic uses the freeway and Grand - Glassell.
Commissioner Vasquez pointed out that you can no longer get on
the freeway at Main Street in that area - you .must go toward Orange
in order to get on the freeway.
Commissioner Coontz referred to the TSIP improvement plan and asked
to what extent had this been approved by the City of Orange. Mr.
Faust dial not think that this has been approved. Commissioner Coontz
understood that there were some Council members who were not happy
about .this plan. Chairman Hart said that he and Commissioner
Nickelson had been appointed to this committee and had never been
invited to a meeting.
Commissioner Coontz asked if the survey had geared to only the
residents of Orange and was told that it had also been sent to the
businesses. She asked for the percentage of residents and what type
of residents had replied and was told that 7% of the reponses had
been from businesses and 92% were from residents. Commissioner Coontz
felt as though they are looking at this as a final plan and perhaps
if there is no power in the City of Orange that might be exactly the
way it will be. She wondered how they could affect this and was
told by Mr. Faust that he is looking for input from the Commission,
explaining that the study is not finished yet
Planning Commission Minutes
April 4, 1983
Page Ten
Mr, Dennis explained that TSIP is an agreement which was entered
into by the City of Santa Ana and the City of Orange. It included
three things
1. It called for identification of those deficiencies
in the total transportation system.
2. It called for the estimation of 1% of the gross
building costs. This was to be done between the two
cities. He explained that the city of Orange has approved
this concept.
3. Prior to the use of this money, the two cities would
have to agree.
Therefore, each city can plan any number of projects, but unless
they collectively recognize the transportation issue as a community
issue and agree collectively to resolve these problems, neither
city will .give up their share of the money.
Mr. Faust explained that essentially the developments, as they come
on line, are reviewed by both cities as far as expenditures are
concerned.
Commissioner Vasquez assumed that the TSIP study which was done was
separate from another study done by Continential Cities, which in-
cluded a study of signalization, etc. and never came to pass.
Mr. Dennis explained that the TSIP study was brought about by an
agreement between the City of Orange and the City of Santa Ana and
resulted in certain changes to the Continental project. The TSIP
study has not been adopted by the City of Orange in its entirety as
yet. The portion of the study that had to do with Continental Cities
i s i ncorporated i n the TSIP study ,
Mr. Faust explained that there are some recommended changes in the
Master Plan. There is a process to go through with the County. They
have been fully apprised and know what is happening and he was sure
their agreement will be forthcoming at the proper time,
Chairman Hart at this time asked for input from the public.
Verdon Craig, 641 E. Lomita, Orange, addressed the Commission, stating
that the reason that Glassell has not been explained here is that
when the SOS Committee looked at the project it was their feeling
that if Walnut and Cambridge were removed from the arterial system
that Glasse]1 would save itself, due to the Old Towne project. It
is the understanding of their committee that one of their streets
of concern being Cambridge, in order for it to be changed to a
commuter street it is imperative that Tustin have parking removed and
be changed to a major arterial. Their committee would like to support
that proposal. However, they would insist upon the change of Cambridge
to a commuter street and would support the removal of parking on
Tustin. Their purpose in having Cambridge removed is so that it would
never be changed. Should that change come up again, they would strongly
support that it be taken off of the arterial system.
She asked questions with regard to pages 15-16 of the study referring
to the Taft-Serrano project which the report indicates is before the
County. She would assume that Villa Park is willing to say that they
will forego funds from the County gas taxes and just want these streets
removed from the arterial highway system.
Mr. Dennis explained that at the present time Villa Park is requesting
deletion of Taft from the arterial system. The City of Orange Staff does
not support such a deletion. They feel that with the extension of
Loma-and the construction of Serrano, plus the growth in their new
area, that the area would best be served by a continuous street
system as suggested in the Master Plan. They do not feel it is fair
to the residents along Katella, Loma and other streets in that area
Planning Commission Minutes
April 4, 1983
Page Eleven
to take this section of the roadway out. Commissioner Coontz
wondered when the decision is going to be made and at what level
and if this is still in the study stage. Mr. Johnson explained
that he did not believe that there is anything official at this
time. So far, the Staff has been opposed to the deletion of Taft,
but the Council has made no official statement. The EIR will be
made available to the City of Orange and at that point they will
take action.
Mrs. Craig said that if they decide that they wish this street to
be removed, regardless of what the City or County wants, would
they lose the gas tax funds? Mr. Dennis replied that Villa Park
would jeopardize their arterial highway funding. Mr. Johnson stated
that Villa Park has already taken the street off of their Master Plan.
However, there will be no official decision until after the EIR
review. If the EIR comes back negatively, the City of Villa Park
will have two choices: they will either have to put the road back
on the Master Plan, in conformance with the County's master plan,
or they will forego any allocation of funds from the County.
Mrs. Craig then addressed page 2 of the report - pointing out that
the report states that minor traffic engineering improvements would
enable Walnut to remain a two-lane street. Again, on page 15, there
would be a reassurance that arterial widening would be a long time
away. Yet on pages 16 and 17, she became very alarmed where it
says Wando Road/Prospect Street that the original plan was to connect
Walnut with that East Orange area with a bridge across Santiago Creek.
It is then stated that Wanda/Prospect is also another corridor and
they can use one bridge and make one big corridor with a bridge which
would go across Santiago Creek. This bridge would accommodate ap-
proximately 28,000 additional cars, This was of real concern to her
as she saw it with the expected growth expected to take place in the
eastern part of Orange as a big problem if Taft were deleted and
traffic were to be moving over toward Chapman. She could see this
happening much faster than is suggested in the report. She said
that even though their committee does acknowledge that there is a
problem in that area, they strongly object to using Walnut because
this will throw all that traffic into residential areas where schools
are involved. This is not acceptable to the residents of Orange.
~ Commissioner Coontz asked to speak to the remarks made by Mrs. Craig
in reference to Wanda Road and the eastern area of Orange. Mrs.
Coontz explained that Wanda Road relieves the Tustin Street traffic
and she was not sure that the widening of the east corridor would
affect Walnut Street. Mr. Faust explained that the Walnut extension
has been brought up many times. There is a difficult connection on
the east side of the freeway that would facilitate using Collins and
Walnut on the east side of the freeway as arterials. Commissioner
Coontz did not think that the bridge over the creek would the amount
of traffic that Mrs. Craig is concerned about. Mr. Faust said that
7% of the residents use the Orangewood interchange and this would be
a fairly small flow of traffic, Mrs. Coontz did not think that the
widening of any part of Walnut will have a great impact all along
the street, as Mrs. Craig seems to think. Mrs. Craig then explained
her concerns in this regard. There was discussion between Mrs. Craig
and Mr. Faust with regard to whether or not a bridge should be built
across Santiago Creek to connect Walnut with Collins. He felt that
the bridge traffic would go to Chapman or Katella rather than using
Walnut.
Mrs. Craig stated that the SOS Committee opposes the recommended use
of Walnut as set out in this study and its pro posed .widening.
Commissioner Coontz asked if the study will trace the traffic on
Walnut and see where it comes from and where it goes, as she felt
that this is important. Commissioner Hart pointed out that unless
barricades would be placed on Taft, it is not likely that the use
is going to diminish there.
Planning Commission Minutes
Aprri 1 4, 1983
Page Twelve
Commissioner Coontz asked how large the Save Our Streets Committee
and Mrs. Craig responded that there are 300-400 concerned citizens
who call the Committee regularly. The SOS Committee is an organized
body, with off icers .
Ken Carpenter, 874 N. Cambridge, Orange, addressed the Commission,
asking how long this study will go on before final decisions are
made. He wondered where we go from here before something final
is presented which everyone can agree on.
Chairman Hart explained that the City Counci 1 had i nstructed the
Commission to hold public hearings in order to take recommendations
back to them. He felt that probably within two months there would
be something more firm to go on. This is an information night and
there will be no recommendations tonight. He assumed that this
would probably be on the next agenda for action. It will go to
the City Council and they will then receive instructions from the
Council .
~ Mr. Carpenter thought it was interesting to note that there was a
very low percentage of surveys returned from Cambridge residents,
but many of these people had come in and addressed the Commission
personally.
Commissioner Mickelson felt that the Commission could make a motion
tonight to recommend this back to the City Council. Mr. Dennis
said that the Commission could take whatever action they deemed
necessary at this time. They would hope to make a presentation to
the City Council within three weeks. He felt it would be appropriate
for the Commission to make a recommendation to the City Council
requesting a public hearing.
[ ~i
Commissioner Mickelson saw nothing wrong with making a recommendation
to the City Council as outlined in the Staff memorandum, after their
review of this report, since he felt that there should be no more
de]ay in this matter. He pointed out that the Council is not com-
pelled to accept their recommendation.
Moved by Commissioner Mickelson, seconded by Commissioner Coontz
to recommend to the City Council that they, after reviewing the
report,. direct the Planning Commission to schedule public hearings
to consider amending the Master Plan of Arterial Highways in those
areas recommended in the JEF Engineering Report.
AYES: Commissioners Coontz, Hart, Master, Mickelson, Vasquez
NOES: Commissioners none
ABSENT: Commissioners none MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Coontz commended Staff on the maps which were presented.
although. she pointed out that she could not read the numbers in the
maps in the report. The tables. were clear and had been helpful.
Chairman Hart suggest4d that perhaps a reduction of the large maps
used in tonight's presentation could be given to the Commissioners.
IN RE: ADJOURNMENT:
The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m., to be reconvened to a
regular meeting on Monday, April 18, 1983 at 7:30 p.m. at the
Civic Center Council Chambers, 300 East Chapman Avenue, Orange.
California.
~~