02-09-1983 - Minutes TC CITY TRAFFIC COTIMISSION
MINllTES OF A REGULAR MEETING
February 9, 198a .
AGENDA MOTION MINUTES �
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ROLL CALL PRESENT Commissioners: G. ShdW, M. Baumann
D. Smith, D. Yarger
Staff: g. Dennis, P. Kelley, Lt. Dawson
ABSENT Commissioners : R. S1dtC
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APPROUAL OF MINUTES MOTION M. Baumann �
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' SECOND D. Smith . �
Meeting of January 12, 1983 AYES Unanimous ;
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CO�JSENT CALENDAR
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A. Almond Avenue & Cypress Street NWC !
Req uest for Dwy Vision Zone �
D.J, Harney�_Exec,_ Di_r, _ ;
5ociety of St. Vincent De Paul j
180 S. Cypress Street i
'�range, CA 92666 .
RECOMMEND: Approve - - �
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3. 11871 Prospect.St.reet - . �
�equest for Loading Zone ;
)ianne Beverly !
3everly's Play School �
11871 Prospect Street' �
�range, CA 9Z666 �
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�ECOMMEND: Deny �
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�. N. Side Tafit Avenue E/0 Lime Street
2equest for No Pk� Anytime Zone �
Jrange Traffic Division !
�ECOMMEND: Appro��� MOTION M. Baumann �
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SECOND G. Shaw '
AYES Unanimous �
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CITY TRAFFIC CONII�IISSION
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING -
February 9, 1983 `'� Pa, e 2
AGENDA � MOTION MINUTES "
CONSIDERATION ITEP�IS
1 . S. Side �lalnut Ave btwn Lincoln/Sha uck The subject location is an undeveloped
Request for Paved GJalkway parce1 of land with approximately 310 feet
Gordon �9itchell , Principal of unimproved frontage on the south side
Cambridge Elementary School of Walnut Avenue. A number of proposals
425 N. Cambridge Street regarding development have been submitted
Orange, CA 92666 to and reviewed by. the City. None of the
proposals have materialized, and there has
RECOMMEND: Pursue installation. (i .e. been no active interest in site development
include in SB-821 program or request th . since 1973-74. Dedication of right-of-way
funds in 19�3-84 budqet) with a status to the 40-foot secondary Arterial Highway
report to be given at the April meetinq. Standard has been made to the City. Pedes-
� tri an traffi c on �Jal nut i n t�he sub j ect
area is resultant of Cambridae Elementary
School and Orange Hiah �School , both having
frontage or access to l�alnut, west of the
unimproved site. The particular walking
route (i .e. , use of the south side of
ti�Jalnut in lieu of the fully improved north
side of the street) is the result of the
--- - -- - - - crossing guard function at Tustin and Walnut.
� The guard has been instr.ucted to cross
all students to the south side of ►nlalnut
and then across Tustin. This avoids an
uncontrolled crossing of ��lalnut, west of
Tustin. At the present time, there are
50-75 students who use this route daily.
� - Vehicular traffic on Walnut adjacent to the
site durina the peak pedestrian period
ranges from 480-500 vehicles. The major
problem is during periods of inclement
weather when the pedestrians use the bike
trail , which is immediately adjacent to the
eastbound travel lane. It is the opinion
of the Traffic Division that a paved,
separated walking surface along the south
side of Walnut between Lincoln and Shattuck
would provide a safer condition than �
present1y exists during the periods of
inclement weather. The $1 ,550 cost
estimated to grade and surface the walkway
is not presentlu budgeted or otherwise
available from current Traffic Engineering
funds. It is possible that the City's
SB-821 , Bicycle and Pedestrian Improvement
. Allocation Program, could support the
walkway installation if the County of
Orange, who administers the State programs,
is rece�tive to an adjustment in, or
addition to, the City's proc�ram priorities.
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� CITY TRAFFIC COMMISSION
� MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING
February 9, 1983 Page 3
AGENDA MOTION MINUTES ' '
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The Commission could either;
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1 ) Continue this item until its April 13, �i
1983 meeting wherein a decision should have �;
been reached regarding SB-821 funds, and; �
if these funds are not available, a �
1983-84 budget request could still be �
submitted, or, �
2) Pursue installation (�i .e. include in i
SB-821 �rogram_ or request the _funds in �
. 1983-84 budget) with a status report to '
be given at the April meeting. I�
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MOTION D. Yarqer �
� SECOND C. Shaw �
AYES Unanimous '1
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2. 1074 N. Tustin (Post Office) P�r. Natch addressed the commission. He read �
Mequest for Review of Turn Prohibition a letter he sent addressed to the rlayor °�
. r. Noel Hatch dated January 8, 1983. The following are ,�
19901 Yorba Linda Blvd excerpts of the letter: P�1r. Hatch stated �
Yorba Linda, CA 92686 that on the eveninq of November 19, 1982 ��
he made-ar�-�-�-1e�al- -l�f�-tu-r-n--ou-t-o�-��ae---- .
RECOMP1END: Retain existing prohibitio Post Office on Tustin. Avenue. He was
issued a citation for an illegal left turn. I
This was his first time to have ever entered
this Orange Post Office. On leaving he
failed to s�e the sign. He was disturbed '
at a $41 .00 fee for the ticket which is
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� -. al so cha�rged -ag-ai-nst a persons dri vi ng - �
record as a moving violation. He telephoned ;
Bernie Dennis and asked how many illegal �
left turn� had occurred at this Post Office
over the aast year. He answered that the �
ci�y didn't keep violations by Post Office
reference as such, but by block number. �
Mr. Hatch asked Bernie why the `no left
turn' siqn was at the Post Office. Bernie
. said because the Post Office asked to
locate them because exiting traffic was. �
backing up waiting for people to turn left.
There are approximately 10,000 people going
in and out of the Post Office daily and the
� �� lona range solution was a signal light ;
which would cost approximately �40,000.
�1r. Hatch asked how lona it would be before ;
the city put the traffic signal in. Bernie �
replied he didn't know. P1r. Hatch called �
� Bernie again and asked how many tickets were �
written in the vicinity of the Post Office
for an illegal left turn. Bernie replied
he didn't know. �1r. Hatch then called
Police traffic and asked the secretary �:
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CITY TR.AFFIC COI�'Il�IISSION
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING �
February 9, 1983 Page 4
AGENDA MOTION MINUTES "
if she could give him the number� of left
turn violations located at 1000 Tustin ;
Avenue, the Post Office. She said yes. '
Sergeant Flannigan then came on the phone. j
He emphasized that he had no intentions of ;
providing the .information. P9r. Hatch �
asked who the girl was who answered the i
telephone. Sgt. Flannigan refused to
release the name of the secretary and was
_. not c�oi nc� to provi de the i nformati on
requested on the number of tickets. Mr. --
Hatch stopPed at Tustin Avenue, Orange Post
Office. He sat there for ]9 minutes and
� observed 83 cars leave the Post Office,
all but three made right turns. He thinks
it's appaulinc� and a serious matter when
good law-abiding citizens make an uninten-
tional left hand turn out of the Post Office
and are citied with a movinq violation.
This type of police action causes disrespect
and distain for all law enforcement agencies.
Sot. Flannigan's actions, refusing to
pro_v_ide_.�he__i_nformation__or the__secretary_'s
name smacks of th� worst kind of corruption.
The compounding problems and placing the
burden on the unsuspectina oopulace is
� unpopular, morally wrong and can only create
di stai r� for the-1 aw:-- The errors -�hat -have- - -
. been created by the Post Office department
= shoul d not be--corrected -by ara 1.ndi rect__..tax _
through moving violations on the backs
of unaware citizens. Mr. Hatch suggests
the following as solutions to the problem:
1 . The city be willinq to accept the facts
as they really are and ignore all left
turn violations.
2. Post haste write a letter to Postmaster
General with a carbon to the President,
including photoaraphs dipicting the appauling
condition.
3. If the Post Office department refuses
to pay for the lights the city should pay
for �them. � � �
4. �40,000 light installation seems far
in excess of the necessary signaling.
5. Swin� two cables across Tustin Avenue,
. each supporting a yellow blinking light in
both directions on Tustin Avenue, coupled
with a blinking red light facing the Post
Office. Attached to the bottom of the red
lights a sign reading 'no left turn' . The
yellow lioht would serve to caution
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CITY TR.AFFIC CO?�Il�IISSION
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING �
February 9, 1983 Page 5
AGENDA MOTION MINUTES ' -
traffic going both directions on Tustin
Avenue, alerting them to eminent da�nger of
right turns leaving the Post Office and the
. � - potentia1 violation of a left turn. Cost
should in no way exceed $20,�00.
Mr. Hatch requested nf Mr. Baker the following:
1 . To obtain the number of left turn violations
� at the Post Office. �
2. In the defense. of _j�usti ce� and._faa r� p.l_,ay _ _�
would you kindly do all__in your power_to ;
eliminate the necessity of� me attending a
judges trial and the consequence of this
ticket. � '
� End of excerpts from Mr. Hatch's letter.
Discussion: �
Commissioner Shaw: Commission is only �
advisory to Council . The history of posting
for no left turn at Post Office is as follows: :
It was pos�ed in 1977 for no left turn. In
1979, Post Office was reposted for right turn
- onl�r. It was posted due to- hazards from � '
vehicular traffie on .Tustin and resultant �
cQngestion in the Post� Office parking lot from �
vehicles waiting to turn left onto Tustin. It �
i s beyond_.�the_ Commi ssion'_s_ power _to make a . _ +
recommendation to any court for a jury trial . �
" � On Mr. Hatch's letter: The local agency has_ �
� taken steps felt appropriate at this time. '
There will possibly be a signal in the future.
Cost of installation: $40,000 appears to be
accurate. On the cabled. flasher: By your
suggestion, you (�1r. Hatch) concur that left �
turns should not be allowed. Additional
comments: The posting is not intended to be a .
revenue generator. A certain percent of �
drivers will disobey the law regardles5. �
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Commiss�oner Smi�h: She use� the Post •Of-Fice �
frequently and agrees that the posting bothers ,
her, but is in favor of the posting because �
traffic would back-up in the Post Office ;
parkinq lot if left turns were allowed.� She
believes the siar�s should be there. ;
Mr. Natch: Agrees signs should be there, �
especially since Post Office requested the
-. City put signs there but people don't really
look for signs. He didn't see it, his family .
didn't see it, it was dark, and no other place
CITY TRAFFIC CO�Il�SISSION .
MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING � Page 6
February 9, 1983 .
AGENDA MOTION MINUTES '
has this kind of prohibition. Feels it is
a trap because people are unaware a�d the �
problem should be corrected. The bail
schedule is too high. Maybe the ticket should . ;
. be $5 or $10 as an educational purpose. Young
people cannot afford a $41 ticket. Wants his �
citation dismissed. Chief Traub says C.T.C.
. can do that. �,
Further discussion ensued between the
Commi ssi oners,=Mr�. _Hatch,..and .Lt,_Dawson _of
the Orange_Poli.ce Department. ___The discussion
included: The insistence by Mr. Hatch� that
1 . The Traffic Commission dismiss his ticket
� and�, .
2. The number of left turn citations at that
location be provided, and
3. The name of the Police secretary that
received his telephone call be�_�provided.
The Commission� reiterated th�t posting of the
turn restriction at the Post Office was
l . Not political in nature
2. - Not intended to generate revenue for the ,
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3. Installed for citizen safety
4. It is properly and adequately posted.
, _ Commi ss�oner..Yarger: _ Moti_or� for Chi ef of � .
� � Po1ice not to write letter, do not dismiss �
. � ticket for following reasons:
1 . Commission feels right turn only signing
at Post Office is adequate and appropriate. i
2. Mr. Hatch by his own admission did make
, an ill�gal left turn. �
� Commissioner Smith: Seconded. `
Motion carried.
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