05-09-1990 - Minutes TC � CITY OF OR.ANGE
MINUTES OF A RDGULAR, MEETING
CITY TRAF�IC OOMAdISSION
Date of Meeting: May 9, 1990
ROLL CALL: PRESENT - Commissioners: D. Yarger, N. Hower, B. Leming
�
ABSEMT - Commissioners: J. Fortier, F. Sciarra
PRESENT - Staff B. Dennis, Sgt. Weinstein, B. Herrick
C. Glass, D. Allenbach, P. Then
I. APP�VAL OF MINU1.�:
February 14, 1990 Minutes
March 14, 1990 Minutes
April 11, 1990 Minutes
R�QO�+�LVDATION: APP�OVE mi.nutes as published bp the Reoorc�i n Secr+etary.
MOTION - B. Leming
SEG�OND - N. Hower �
AYES - Unanimous
II.. Consent Ca.lendax - There is no Consent Calendar for Ma.y 16, 1990.
I�I. C�ONSIDERA.TIQN ITE�S
A. Request tha.t an 'Adult School Crossing Gua.rd' be assigned at the
crosswalk at the intersection of La.Veta Ave. and Prospect St. (La,Veta.
Elementary School).
Anna Iversin
12741 Dunas Rd. .
Santa Ana, CA 92705
C3ra1 presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy.
17iscussion:
La,urie Morgan - I represent th.e faculty at the elementary school.
Perhaps one �►� the reasons tha.t there is a vaxied count is tha.t alot of
��� ��d�nts tha.t have to cross at tha,t intersection have their pa,rents
drive them to school, beca.use they realize tha.t it is dangerous and also
because some of them have been crossing a �block away which isn't as
dangerous. I support the installata.on of a guard at this loca.tion.
-2-
CTC Minutes 5/9/90 - Cont'd.
Bernie Dennis - If the crossing guard is approved would you be willing to
send a flyer home to those� students living east of Prospect St. and ask
tha,t they use this crosswalk rather than Larkstone? -
Laurie Morgan - We would inform the public.
�
Elaine Kranowski - I ha.ve a petition from the neighborhood supporting the
cr��sia�� �.�.rd, Presently there is a caxpool going beca.use we don't want
them walking ����.gh this intersection.
Dennis Doner - My concern is t�.e morning traffic doesn't pa.y attention to
anyone in the erosswalk. There doesn't seem to be as much afternoon
traf f ic beca use of the of f-hour.
RIlC�i�1ID���: �F��'� �i�ID START WITH THE FALL SE�EST�.
Motion - D. Yarger
SEUOND - N. Hower
AYES - Unanimous
B. Reques� for the installation of 'No Parking' zone on the east side of
N. Lemon St. south of Hoover Ave. (opposite 1148 N. Lemon St.)
George J. Gama.r
1148 N. Lincoln St.
Orange, CA 92667
Oral presentation is based. on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy.
Discussion:
Y George G�mar - When we maved in there was no pa.rking on Hoover coming off
of Glassell, tha.t ha,s since been taken down. We ha.ve put up a wall and
my trucks cannot legally get into my own yarcl. If there is an accident
there my trucks would automa.tica.11y be liable beca,use they cannot crass
the double line. If they come in off Lemon and Collins is posted for no
trucks, we wanted to make it red so they could make tha.t left-turn I
don't know what the�r can dc� abo�t tha.t double yellow line now tha.t it's
���re. �t ���.,e�r�d�.ng �a my �,�ttar°�ey if ther� is an accident we are
automatica�.�� �.iable for crossing the dauble yellow line and it's
impossi��� for my 45 ft. trailers to come through there and make that
I��t-turn and right-turn into my yards.
Chairman Yar�er - Coming south tha.t no parking on the opposite side of
the street ha.s no affect on your driveway at all, is tha.t correct?
1 _3_
� CTC Minutes 5/9/90 - Cont'd.
, George Gamar - It will because when they come out they still have to
cross the double yellow line to cross Hoover and get out tha,t way and if
they try to rnake a right-turn they can't make it tha.t way if there axe —
ca.rs parked there. The narmal radius turn for a truck is 120 ft.
Dave Allenbach - Our largest truck turning r'adius is 98 ft. Northbound
trucks on Lemon with a 98 ft. turning radius could easily make this
left-turn into the facility without having to swing out around and
thereby remove this one paxking s�tall� �
Berr�i+� ��.�s - How of ten do you close that gate tha,t you have George?
George Gamar - '�e �r�n't close it except for weekends.
Bernie Dennis - What would be involved in widening tha,t driveway?
George Gamar - �� we��.�.dn't really involve too much. I would like to move �
it on down toward Hoover. About 7 years ago we ha.d noise problems and I
sat down with the City Attorney to discuss it and they thought a wall
might help so I spent $125,000 to put up a fence and t hey s ti l l come ou t
and threaten to ticket drivers. When I firs t mov e d in L emon was su p p osed
-�� �;c� �►�t to Kat�ella. straight through, they told me not to worry about it
���. �l�ey p�� in this new development you still ha,ve Hoover and then
Lemon went the other way. Then when they striped this with the double
yellow they told me again not to worry they would bring me in off Collins
but Collins is posted for 'No Trucks Over 6,000 Lbs. ' - now the State law
says that if a truck is delivering or ha.s business in the area can use
a,ny surface street in any city as long as its legal.
Bernie Dennis - George axe you in the Northwest Redevelopment axea?
George Gamar - Yes I am.
Bernie Dennis - You`r� u��l�. �.�aY`� €�� the parking demand on the east side
adjacent to the apartments. When we w��� c�u� six months ago and did the
red curb axour�c� the corner, rea��ri.�� ��ia��, �ywh+�re in this area tends
� t����er the parking ove�� i�o the other side of Glassell. One possible
solution, through the Redevelopment Agency, is changing the drive to a
width tha,t would allow you to sta.y on your half of the roadway. One of
the issues tha.t your legal counsel ma.y have told you is tha.t whether tha,t
line is painted or not the liability is tha.t if you. are on the wron� side .
of the roadway y��. �ia.v� �. p�c��le�.
�rge Gamar - Indi.�ates tha,�: o�,ce ��� ��1..�.aw Iine i� installed it
becomes indefen��.�1.� �.� �ur� if a driver crosses the line to make the
turn a.n.d a.� �r�volved in an accident.
, -4-
CTC Minutes 5/9/90 - Cont'd. �
Bernie Dennis - What is the width of tha.t driveway?
Chuck Glass - Ma.ybe 35 feet. —
Bernie Dennis - If we widen that driveway would that keep him on the
right side of the street all the way axound? �
Conuni��ic��.��� �i.�g - �� it the contention of staff tha,t you can na.vigate
-�� t�. ��.thout crossing the yellow line or is that impossible?
George Gamar - It's impossible to come off Hoover legally.
Commissioner Leming - Would you be opposed, through the Red.evelopment
Agency, of widening tha,t driveway? �
George Gamar - That would cure it at my expense again.
Bernie Dennis - If you were to move this up the the extension of Hoover
ho� would it affect your operation?
George Gamar - I would ha.ve to study it I ha.ve a building in the way and
some trucks paxked up there, I would ha.ve to find another place to paxk.
Manager of 238 W. Hoaver - I'm protesting this pa.rking removal and I'm
also going to ask for more pa.rking. WYien they painted last yeax and
e�t�nded it they did it for no reason. We need that pa.rking because
people have more than one cax.
Chairman Yarger - That would have to be another item.
RE�iDATION: Continue for 30 da,ys and see wha.t we can work out with
George and the Redevelopment Agency.
Commissioner Leming - I think we shouldn.'t continue this item. I think
w� sho�u.7.d j�.st c�eng this request and encourage t�e applicant to work with
staff to resolve the problem, and widen the d.riveway �� come ba.ck with a
whole new recommendation. I ca.n't see us taking away ar�� a�c�� parking
away when its such an important issue. �
Chairman Yarger - I'm going to withdraw my motion and make a new motion.
�K�li���'I�T: DE[�Y the r+�ques� for p�king reu�oval a�d ��nd staff
, and Mr. Ga;mar meet v�ith the R�edevelop�ent Agency and s�ee v�at they can do
to assist him with either vv�idening that drive�wa.y or m4ve tba.t drive�a.y
northerlp to improve iagress a�nd egress.
MOTION - D. Yarger
� S�UOND - B. Leming
AYES - Unanimous
�
r�
-5-
CTC Minutes 5/9/90 - Cont'd.
C. Request to consider a proposed new ordina.n.ce to the Orange Municipal
Code, Chapter 10.67 'Movement of Vehicles and Equipment' , which sets ,
guidelines for transportation permits and fees for oversize, overweight —
vehicles/equipment and dirt ha.uling operations.
,
Traffic Engineering Division
City of Orange
Phyllis Then - The California Legislature adopter� A.�. 1��4� ��.c�. ��mes
effective July 1, 1990, which will require loca� city/county
municipalities to utilize the same form for transportation permits and
all fees will be standaxdized at $15/single trip and $?0/annual permit
with a $15/rider which mod.ifies the original permit. The City of �Orange
has prepared a dra�'� cc►�a�r c�f an ordinance tha.t would enable us to enforce
��is action, ha���er, it has n.ot been. fina,lized and we ha,ve had some
direction from the City Attorney's office which we have incorporated into
the ordinance. We have no objections in complying with the Sta,te
legislation, we have a fairly good working relationship with the firms we
issue permits to and we do not anticipate any problems using the new
forms. The one aspect that is different at this time would be to �
incorporate some regu.lations regarding the dirt ha,uling operations. Dirt
h�.uling is curreratly covered under our Grading Manua.l and we feel that
bringing all types of trucking under one ordinance will improve
enforcement efforts.
. Rand� Edwards - Mr. Crane - As far as the fees on the annual permits are
concerned, we ha.ve no problem. We are concerned with the length of our
cranes exceeding the legal length and being required to ha.ve pilot ca.rs.
It's hard to put pilot ca.rs on these cranes beca.use we are on a 24 hour
service and escorting them to and from the freeway is difficult.
Bernie Dennis - Assuming tha.t the requirement for a pilot cax for
over-length was mitigated, how would you propose to mitigate the
over-width?
Randy Edwards - We ha.ve a permit to run over-width.
Bernie Dennis - Why don't we give you a copy of this proposed ordinance
and ask you to review it an.d give us your comrnents as it relates to your
operations.
Chairman Yarger - I'd like to carry this forward until we ha.ve a chance
to^read this a little more.
R�OOb�IP�IDATION: (bntinue 30 da.ys.
MOTION - D. Yarger
SFC)OND - B. Leming
� AYES - Unanimous
`
,. -�-
. GTC Minutes 5J9/90 - Cont'd.
I V. ORAL P��II�ITATIONS
. Public Participation - At the conclusion of the meeting of items listed -
on this Agenda, members of the public ma.y address the City Traffic
Commission regarding items of interest to the, public tha.t axe within the
subject jurisdiction of the City Traffic Commission.
None.
V. Adjournment at 4:45 p.m.