04-11-1990 - Minutes TC I
` CITY OF ORANGE
MINUTES OF A R�GULAR, MEETING
CITY TRA�FIC �ISSION
Date of Meeting: A�ril 11, 1990 _
ROLL CALL: PRESENT - Commissioners: D. Yaxger, N. Hower, B. Leming
F. Sciara
ABSENT - Commissioners: J. Fortier
PRESENT - Staff B. Dennis, Sgt. Weinstein, B. Herrick
C. Glass, D. Allenbach, P. Then
I. Approval of February 14, 1990 Minutes �
R�00��6E'NDgTION: APPROVE minutes as p�ulblished. by the R�oording Secreta,rp.
No action was taken.
II. OONSENT CALII�ID�R
1. Request for the installation of � four-way STCP's at the intersection of
Grand St. and Maple Ave.
Traffic Engineering Division
City of Orange
Discussion:
Gommissioner Hower - Why are we discussing this if it has already been
installed?
Bernie Dennis - The four-way STOP at Grand/Ma.ple was installed as pa,rt of
a bus rerouting program. We relocated OGTD Line 54 from Almond Ave. up
via the Lemon St. pa,rking lot to Maple easbound to �Grand and southbound
to Chapman Ave. One of OGTD's policies is that they, if at all possible,
wish to negotiate turns in their route via some type of traffic control.
In this ca.se a signal wasn't appropriate but in our opinion a four-way
STOP was. The traffic ordinance allows the Traffic Division to make that
kind of discretionaxy judgement and installation pursuant to approval of
the Commission once it's made. Ba.sica.11y wha.t we axe asking you for
today, with an understanding of why we made tha.t change, is your
approval.
Commissioner Hower - I see other axeas where the buses axe making turns
across streets with much higher volumes without problems, I question why
we really need this. Perha.ps staff can give us a run down of what the
warrants axe for an all-way STOP.
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CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
Bernie Dennis - We could certainly do tha.t, but this was not put in on a
warrant basis.
Commissioner Hower - The justifica,tion says that it meets the minimum
warrants based on traffic volume ancl accident history. What are the
minimum warrants?
Dave Allenbach - The minimum warrants for an all-way STOP on a local
street would be 100 vehicles entering the intersection from all
approa.ches during the peak traffic hour; at lea,st one accident in a one
year period that would be correctable by the installation of a four-way
STOP, or intersection alignment and geometry alignment problems. This
intersection has adequa.te sight distance from all approaches, however, we
have had two right-angle accidents within the last year at this
intersection. Both of these streets are local collectors and they
certainly do meet the minimum vehicular number during the peak traffic
� hour.
Commissioner �Iower - Wha,t are our volumes there? � �
Dave Allenbach - We estima,te that the approach volume is about 200
vehicles during the peak hour.
Commissioner Hower - How often do we ha,ve a bus in there?
Dave Allenbach - Every 20 minutes.
Commissioner Hower - I might ask that if this bus route is later changed
so that buses are not going through that intersection, will tha.t STOP be
removed?
Dave Allenbach - Yes it would.
Commissioner Hower - Inasmuch as the buses axe there, the signs axe up,
we ha,ve ha,d some problems and it is the recommendation of staff to
approve, although it ma.y not technica,lly meet requirements tha.t the other
Commissioner ha,s expressed, I would go ahead and make the recommendation
to APPROVE this item.
Ri����ATION: gPPROVE
MOTIQN - B. Leming
SEOOND - N. Hower
AYES - Unanimous
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CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
II. QONSIDF�EiATION IT�S
A. Request to reduce the length of existing red curb markings at -
241 N. Center St.
Jeri Keister
241 N. Center St.
Orange, CA 92666
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy.
Diseussion:
Peggy Kirk - Our residence is south of 241 N. Center St. I am here to
oppose the reduction of the red curb zone on the south side of the
property which is currently 5 ft. 6 in. long, and is next to my driveway.
My driveway is narrow, just wide enough for one vehicle and if the red.
zone is shortened it will allow vehicles to park closer to my driveway
and it will make it more difficult for me to get in and out, and its
' going to make visibility of oncoming traffic on Center St. more
difficult. I believe this will increase the ha.zard of a traffic accident
especially when my neighbors pa,rk their ta,ll full-size trucks in that
a:rea. The reason given to shorten the red zone is to allow two vehicles
to park in front of that residence, but the owners of tha.t property
already park two full-size vehicles in front of their .house and, if you
care to see them, I ha.ve recent photographs of their vehicles paxked in
front. I recently counted 7 vehicles permanently located at tha.t
address. I ask tha.t the City leave the red. zone on the south side
adjacent to my property as is.
Photographs were passed among the Commissioners. �
Commissioner Leming - The action before us is to reduce the red curb on
from a 6 ft. to a 3 ft. Now is your concern that if we did that he
would get a third car parked there, or is it tha.t you ha.ve a haxd time
coming out of your driveway?
Peggy I�irk - It would make it more difficult for me to get in and out and
it would make visibility more difficult.
Chuck Glass - The request to reduce the amount of red curb it didn't
specifica,lly ask for 3 ft. on the south side, tha,t was something tha.t we
suggested tha.t if we were going to reduce red curb we could go that
direction. We've also suggested another way to go would be to remove the
entire 3 ft. of red curb from the north side of the property. However, I
would suggest a little caution there beca.use tha,t's a mutual driveway
serving both this resident and the resident at 247 N. Center St.
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GTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
Chairman Yar��._er - It's a common driveway then for two residents?
Peggy Kirk - Yes it does. -
Commissioner Leming - What I can't understand is tha.t the reason the
request came before us was that they ha.ve been ticketed for parking in
the red curb. Is there enough room to pa.rk 2 ca,rs there?
Chuck Glass - There is 34 ft. The average vehicle is probably no more
than 16 ft., so if they are parked correctly and not leaving alot of room
then yes you can get 2 normal size vehicles in there if
, you were going
to park laxge trucks it would be another story. '
Cc�mmissioner Hower - Is there regular enforcement in the axea or is an
`on ca.11' basis?
Peggy Kirk - It's a regular patrol.
RF�C'�Oh�NDATION: DENY
MOTION - D. Yarger . �
SEC�OND - F. Sciarra
1�YES - Unanimous
&. Request for the installation of an intersection vision zone at Grove Ave.
at Main St.; and Grove Ave. at Enterprise St.; and Grove Ave. at Lime St.
Orange Police Dept. , Traffic Bureau
City of Orange
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy. There was no discussion on this item.
, R��iDATION: gPP�OVE
MOTION - F. Sciarra
SEOOND - B. Leming
�YES - Unanimous �
Chuck Glass - It is possible, even with tY�e red curb up to the curb
returns one could still legally maneuver a 'vehicle within tha.t curb
re�urn and still be legal. Might I suggest that the Commission add to
tha.t Motion that we proceed with preparing an Ordinance that would
specifica.11y prohibit parking around the curb return and process tha.t
through City Council.
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CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
R����IDATION: Add a�.other Motion on the same subject in reference to ' �
Mr. Glass` �ecammenda.tions.
MOTI4N - F. Sciaxra
SECOND - B. Leming
AYES - Unanimous
����n Ya,Tger - We are going to go to item n�ber G on the C�nsidera.tion
Iteu�s.
G. Request for the installation of a temporary 2-Hour time limit pa,rking
. zone on the north side of the 500-600 block of W. Struck Ave.
Director of General Services
City of Orange
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy.
RD(X��[�IDATION: AP`P�OVE �
MOTION - D. Yarger
Commissioner Hower - I would like to include something that this be
removed within 12 months, and also tha,t it extend just to the cul-de-sac
but not include the cul-de-sac. That would give them room for
approxima,tely 13 caxs.
Chairma,n Yaxger - I will withdraw my motion, and is there any other
discussion before we revi�e the motion regarding the cul-de-sac pa.rking?
R�OO�II�F'.�VDATION: Acc�ept sta.ff r�ec,omm�nda.tion with a 12 month mora.torium
� on this an.d it does not includ.e the cul-d�-sa.c parking
ai'ea..
MOTION - D. Yarger
SEC70ND - B. Leming
AYES - Unanimous
� �_
CTC' Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
F. Request for the impl�enta.tion of a neighborh+ood p�rking permit p�ogram
far both sides of Maple gve. between P.rospect St. and Olympia Way;
Olympia %ag betw�een Ya.ple Ave. and Spring Ave.; Vine Ave. frnm —
Olympia Way to its �esterly terminus; Shasta St. a.nd Dunas St.
Herbert A. Welch, Jr.
3446 E. Maple Ave.
Qrange, CA 92669
�Staff presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy.
Discussion:
Brad Smith - We have talked between ourselves and we want to know wha.t
ha.ppens if you have a neighbor visiting you' and he is parked on the
street. Will we ha,ve signs to put on the cax? Will he get a ticket?
. Bernie Dennis - Basically, each vehicle registered to a house within the
axea is issued a permanent sticker which is to be affixed to the left
rear bumper, if you ha.ve 1, 2 or 3 caxs it doesn't make any difference to
us as_ long as your vehicle registration and your residence address axe
the same. You're also issued, per household, 5 guest permits that if,
for whatever reason you have guests, which axe placed on the inside top
left side of the dash. The third permit is for a special event and you
come down to the City and we will issue 25-35 which axe good only for the
duration of the event. I would ca,ution you in two respects, the guest
permits ha.ve to be in the dash if they aren't there our Police officers
have no reason - no way of knowing tha.t vehicle belongs there or what
have you, and if its not you will get a citation and it will not be
withdrawn. These permits are re-issued. annually.
Brad Smith - We had also discussed the possibility of making this a gated
. community, and we would like to get further informatoin as to the
feasibility of� this.
Bernie Dennis - Before you pursue tha,t in any great detail, it is a very
involved process. You ma,y end up getting what you want, and after you
get it you might not want it. I would suggest, in the interest of time,
that you elect a 2-3 person committee and discuss that issue with the
� City Attorney, its not an easy process.
Herb Welch - Shared some photographs with the Commission. About 85-95% .
af the ca.rs on our streets do not belong in the neighborhood. It's
unsafe and unhealthy, our area, has been�.trashed.. I am also quite
concerned for our young children tha.t axe exposed to really bad stuff.
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t CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. �
Bill Adamo - I'm a resident of one of the cul-de-sacs. The way the
cul-de-sac�s are built there's not enough room for parking except for
your driveways. Therefore any guests we ha,ve must go out onto Ma,ple Ave.
and now we don't know where they will go beca.use there is no parking ;for -
anybody. This is a disaster and its not safe for children anymore. The
atmosphere is terrible, we do know tha.t there ha,s been measures taken in
an area up around Katella/Glassell where the same situa.tion that an
apartment complex was the ca.use of this mess in an adjacent single-family
residential area, this ha,s been taken ca.re of by permit parking.
Geri Napoleon - Vine Ave. is not really close to the apartments we are
over a block away and I had an unregistered vehicle parked in front of my
house for almost a week; I came home one evening and this cax v�as driving
by and stopped so close next to me I couldn't pa.rk on the street. The
day workers loiter around their ca.rs when they park them on the streets,
they use the street for changing their oil.
Margaret Helms - I am strongly suggesting that you approve this today and
also before you take into consideration items C, D and E from today's
agenda. These will directly affect the parking on our streets. I can't
see that we could take any more pa.rking out of the area without ha,ving
our parking protected. We are now ha.ving vandalism in the area - 3 ca.rs
in the last week and a ha.lf have�ha,d their windows sma.shed. I can't say
if its ha,ppening by apa,rtment residents or if there is retaliation. I do
know that I don't want to be another County Vine, I don't want drive-by
shootings in our axea and I think we're heading for it.
W. D. Bonner - �t'hey're organized over there, they ha.ve a car and two boys
on bicycles that watch for the paxking control officer to drive through
the neighborhood and as you leave the bicycles go over to the apa.rtments
and 5 minutes later here come four ears.
hTan.cy Gaisbauer - There are two things tha.t ha.ve not been mentioned tha.t
I think neecl to be brought up. One is that if this goes through all
those cars that axe now pa,rked in these areas will now end up on
Spring Ave. We live on the corner of Spring and Olympia, we don't relish
the thought of having these ca,rs in any of the areas adjacent to our
home, the people are now destroying property just walking up and down -
they come into our yards and look into our windows, they steal everything
tha.t they can see. There is a possibility tha.t a 3-Hour paxking permit
or a parking zone might be the solution to this problem due to the fact
. that on gradua.tion nights/football nights the whole area, has paxking for
those people tha,t are attending the stadium functions, and I would hate
to see any of these people ticketed. I say put the paxking problem back
in the apartment area where it originated and get the City to hold firm
on the number of people living in one apartment, limit and enforce -
there is the root of the whole problem.
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C'TC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
Pat Dunmore - In order for us to paxk our three ca.rs we ha,ve put our
trash cans out on the street in order to save our paxking spaces or we
won't have any place to pa.rk. People axe always working on their ca,rs in _
� the street, they push them around the corner - they get a ticket from the
Police and the people throw away the tickets and then they push the cax
. so it looks like they ha,ve been driven, one of the biggest problems are
the cars that don't even work tha.t axe just left there. The vandalism is
pretty bad here and the last 6 months it has really gotten bad.
Di.ane Beverl� - I'd like to summarize tha.t its not the homeowners in the
. neighborhood - the whole problem is coming from the apartments and I know
its not a traffic problem. I needed to go to the bank the other day and
I had to call the police to see if it was safe to leave my hous� and walk
across the street. That is wha.t we are ha.ving to live with.
Charley Campbell - On this permit pa.rking does it apply to ca.rs that axe
parked in the driveway?
Bernie Dennis - No they are not. If you axe on the street you ha,ve to
ha,ve a permit, either� a residents deca.l or a visitor permit.
Commissioner Leming - Just for clarifica.tion if we were to approve this
and go on to the City Council for their approval next week, when would
actual enforcement take place?
Bernie Dennis - Two weeks after Council approval we can get the logistics
in place - i.e. , signs installed, permanent and visitor permits
available. As far as police enforcement perhaps Sgt. Weinstein can
address this issue.
Sgt. Weinstein - Our normal policy is tha.t we do give a grace period so
people become aware of wha.t the signs mean, what they say and what the
enforcement is all about - this also assists us with prosecution and
litigation as well. So we would probably want to ha,ve a 2 week grace
period where the signs would be bagged unless the Traffic Engineer has
some different feelings on that?
Bernie Dennis - I suggest that wha.t we do is install and don't cite for
two weeks, it gives everyone a chance to get tuned in. It gives the
illegal pa,rk�rs to discover tha.t its no longer permissible to pa,rk here
and also it reminds the residents tha.t they ha.d better get their permits.
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� CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd. r
One ed.itorial comment if I ma,y. I believe tha,t several people who spoke s
today indica.ted. tha,t we're trying to solve a non-traffic problem with a �
traffic control measures. We would hope that in the long-term, perha,ps �
in the short-term, tha.t the ca,use of your problem will go away. We would -
also hope that when tha,t happens you're right back in here wanting :to get
out of this program. Beca,use, although it seems like an excellent way at
this point in time to resolve a specific issue, there axe very definately
some problems associated. with this and those problems are your guests,
your family getting citations. There is a convenience factor involved
you have to come down here once a year, you have to be here initially
with your ca.r registrations to get your permits. So let's hope that if
this is approved by the Commission and the City Council, it is indeed. a
shart-term situa.tion. That's the way we would like to see it and I think
you would too.
Commissioner Hower - Could this be set up as a temporary program, so tha.t
when the real problems are solved it would automa,tica.11y be discontinued?
Bernie Dennis - Whatever the Commission wishes.
Commissioner Leming - My concern would be not knowing when that condition
was cleared up permanently. I think we should leave it as a permanent
program and let the homeowner's �come and tell us when the problem is
resolved.
Bernie Dennis - I believe Commissioner Hower is suggesting tha.t perha.ps
there should be an informal review of the program, which we would ha.ve no
problem with and obviously there would be no action taken without ha.ving
a full hearing. We can do tha.t and if the problem solves itself one way
or the other we would be the first to know, but an annual review with the
understanding of no action without notification of the residents, we have
no problem with tha,t.
eommissioner Leming - On property that is transferred during the program,
is there any system set up where new property owners are automa.tic.
Their cars may not be registered. at tha,t address, how do you handle the
transfer of property, axe you putting it on the property owner's to
notify their prospective buyers?
Bernie Dennis - Most people when they axe buying a home axe aware of
this. There are always those who, for some reason, don't know wha.t the
signs means or the seller ha.s failed to advise them of wha,tever the
situa.tion is. Unfortunately they generally find out tha.t there is a
permit program right after they get their first citation, but again in
defense of the police officers, they have no way of knowing that. They
ha.ve no way of knowing when they moved in, if they're trying to
circwmvent the program or what. Generally, it is incumbent upon the
seller to advise them accordingly.
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� CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
Margaret Helms - Will this decrease some of the time it will take to have
some of these caxs towed away?
Sgt. Weinstein - The towing laws tha.t we enforce, prima.rily the 72 hour
violation, and tha.t's a OMC ordinace on the street for over ?2 hours
after we have maxked it will be towed of r,ourse with limited manpower and
resources and a city of 25 square miles we are sometimes a day or two
behind and as often as not we could be a week behind. We are working
these continua,lly, we do try especially in this axea to get in there as
much as possible, but as far as the permit parking goes it ha.s no effect
on the towing of vehicles. We basica.11y tow under the authority of the
CVC section that refers to vehicles pa.rked on a street unregistered for
over a year, if they are out of registration for over a yeax we will tow
them immediately, if they axe obviously abandoned, missing required parts
we can tow them immediately, other tha.n tha.t we ha,ve the 3 day ordinance.
Bernie Dennis - Keep in mind tha:t we gave some very serious thought to a
tow-away provision when we instituted this program several years ago and
we elected not to do it, for the benefit of the residents. I can assure
you tha.t at some point in time you or anybody in the program will forget
to put ,your permit on your dash or ha,ve your guest do it, its one thing
to pay a f ine - its another thing to chase the wrecker down the street
trying to retrieve your cax. What you will find is that during the
initial course of the program there will be vehicles towed away and to a
large degree they will be abandoned vehicles.
Margaret Helms - The schools ha,ve grad night at Kelly Stadium and as
residents we have always been supportive of them parking on our streets
for their events, is there any type of posting that you could do tha.t
would allow parking in the neighborhood for these events?
Bernie Dennis - Do you really want to do tha.t? This program doesn't work
well an a 'now you do - now you don't' basis. If the Commission feels
that you have a problem and that problem involves implementing this kind
of a program and we install the signs it should be in effect. We do,
however, ha,ve a proviso for this that we would prefer not to use beca,use
simply the signing/posting looses its effect. That proviso very simply
is that you can request, again by petition, tha.t the signs be `bagged' or
not enforced, the other ha.lf of tha.t is tha.t if you ha.ve something very
big going on - notify the Police Dept. and they � elect not to enforce
in that area it is totally at their discretion. In regard to the school
parking the one thing tha.t I don't think tha,t you want to do is to
somebody who is not familiar with the neighborhood to encourage them to
park on Friday night and have them get a ticket on Saturday night, this
is the problem with that kind of a thing.
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� CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
Brad Smith - Will these be bilingua.l signs?
Bernie Dennis - Absolutely not.
Commissioner Hower - My ma,jor concern is that we are just trying to treat
a symptom of a much larger problem and we are solving neither the symptom
`nor the problem itself, and until the City faces up and solves tha.t
larger problem we're just going to be transferring this symptom to other
areas and we're not going to solve it this way.
Commissioner Sciarra -- I kind of agree but I think we are forcing it back
into the apartment axea.
Commissioner Leming - I think it is just �a symptom of a larger problem
but the reality is we need to do something to relieve the short-term
problem and I think the only logical thing to do is to go ahead and
approve the implementation of a paxking permit program, and I will go and
make that as a Motion.
� Commissioner Hower - Can we amend tha.t to ha,ve a review in 12 months?
Commissioner Leming - Certainly,. as long as no action is taken without
the notification of the homeowners. If the review comes back and says
the problem is gone I would still want to hear from the homeowners if we
are going to remove it. I ha,ve no problem with tha.t amendment.
REIOO�IDATION: APP�VE PaY'king Permi.t P�ram for the streets in.
questian as reoommended by the Tra.ffic Engineeri.ng
staff, and include a one-year re�riew but tl�at no action
�u.ld be taken by this Co�mission witho�at a. gublic
hearing.
MOTION - B, Leming
SEC70ND - F. Sciarra
AYES - Unanimous
Chairman Yarger - I would reGommend tha,t you, as a group, come to the
City Council meeting to let them know of your concerns in the
neighborhood.
Ma.yor Smith - Good. afternoon ladies and gentlemen we'l1 put the hearing
on the pa.rking on the evening session which we thought would be best
because people often like to attend and observe how we do things. This
will be under the Reports section on the 7 PM Agenda next Tuesday night,
April 17, 1990. Thank you for attending this meeting today.
�
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' CI`C Mi.tlLttes 4/11/90 - Cor1t'd.
D. R�quest for the installation of 'No Stopping Anytime - Tow Away'
restrictions on both sides of Prospect St. between Chapman Ave. and
Spring Ave.
Traffic Engin�ering Division
City of Orange
Staff presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your capy.
Di�cussion:
W. D. Bonner - I just wanted to tie this to our permit pa,rking 'tha.t it be
in p lace be fore the other paxking is removed, otherwise we are going to
be �looded. We would like some of those street sweeping signs on Maple
pleas.e.
Gale Beverly - When you put no pa,rking on Prospect St. I'm not going to
ha.ve anywhere for my guests to pa,rk. I don't park out there, my
brother-in-law pa.rked out there one time and they shot out the windows of
his Mercedes. I think its inevitable tha.t there's going to be no parking
on Prospect is that wh.at I heaxd from staff? �
Chuck Glass - Yes at least in certain areas, you're at 170 Prospect is
that right? In that area, there is a minimum of no pa,rking area that we
waul.d ne�cl to put in left-turn pockets at Spring and it would leave us
with no• left-turn lanes and merely � lanes in each direction between that
axea and where the pockets begin for Chapman. Now as far as I'm
concerned there would probably be no reason to change anyting at the
south end, so in answer to your question wha.tever parking is in your axea
could rema.in. �
Gale Beverly - I would suggest that if you axe going to restrict the
parking that you put up those signs for all of Prospect St. to
Spring Ave. at the same time that you implement the permit only parking.
All these cars certainly create a problem and there's a crime problem as
a result of the people. It's not a traffic problem but its from some of
those a,pa.rtment rent to 20 people. There axe sorr� people tha.t live there
that have to put a sign on their door 'No Vacancy' and I think in
handling traffic problems which is the symptom you can also recommend to
the City that �hey enforce the code. laws pertaining to how many people
can live there, the fire laws maybe even the criminal laws beca.use they
come ri�ht up on my property any more and ha.ve :stolen a radio out of a
car paxked on my property. There axe alot of drunks out there and others
loitering. A week or so ago when this was all going on I went outside
and was monitoring their activity and one of them came at me and he
didn't batter me but ha.d taken off his belt and I walked him, at the
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, CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont�d.
point of a gun, down to where the Police were and he went to jail. But I
don't want to live like that, these other people don't want to live like
that, this is not a nice place to live anymore and putting no paxking
signs is nice but its putting a band-aid on the problem, so if you can -
use your influence as a Commission to encourage the depa.rtments tha.t are
necessary and the police can't do it, we have only one cod.e enforcement
of f icer and she can't go out there a 4 A.M. and ask how many people are
living there - but I think a Task Force of some kind can do it.
Commissioner Leming - Your property is on the west side of .Prospect
between Montessori school and the apartments, is tha.t correct?
Gale Beverl - Not the apartments tha.t are in question, the senior
citizens are on the south side of ine.
Commissioner Leming - Do you use the on-street parking in front of your
hame?
Gale Bever� - I don't but some of my guests do.
Commissioner Leming - Since we've reco�nended the permit paxking program
in the neighborhood those people are going to look for other paxking
spaces. �
Bernie Dennis - Are you anticipating staxting up the school again?
GaTe Beverly - No.
Brad Smith - We axe opposed to the pa.rking being taken away on Prospect
until thP permit parking program is in effect.
Commissioner Leming - So wha.tever we decide to do on Prospect and Spring
will ha,ve to be done concurrent with the permit paxking program, they
would ha.ve to work with each other or it will ca.use more troubles.
Chairman Yarger - Yes, I think coordina.ting the two should not be a
problem.
Chuck Glass - If the parking was to be removed. from Prospect it would
definately be after the permit parking program was in place and
operational. If the permit pa.rking program is approved by Council the
space on��Prospect while not fully utilized all the time at present you
can almost expect will be pa,rked solid all the time.
_l,c�
x GTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
Diane Beverly - .Prospect is pa.rked solid, they come in as late at 2 AM
and they leave as early as 4:30 AM, so there is parking on Prospect now I
guess they can't find room over in the residences. I really don't want
red in front of my house, I'd like a loa,ding zone in front and tha.t would -
keep the overnight pa,rkers away. �
Bernie Dennis - A loa,ding zone isn't applica,ble after 5 PM.
Ghuck Glass - If the minimum parking restriction is put in with the
signalization and left turn pocket it would encompa.ss this axea.
Ma.rgaret Helms - Now we're forcing the parking axound the corner onto
Spring Ave. which puts all the paxking in front of the elementary school.
Maybe extend it up through Spring down to at least Swidler.
Chuck Glass - I would ha,ve no problem with the Commission considering
today the extension of No Parking on the south side of Spring up to
Olympia Way, however, if you're going to put it on the north side in
front of the school or on the other Prospect in front of the school I
think we would ha,ve to discuss it with the school first.
Chairman Yarger - If you go up to Olympia it's not tha.t much further up
to Swidler is it?
Chuck �lass - About 3 cax lengths.
Chairman Yarger - Does the school have any problem with enough on-site
parking for their people on Spring Ave.?
Bernie Dennis - No, the elementary school doesn't - the high school on to
the east does. Most of the non-school oriented parking f4r Prospect
Elementary School actually occurs up to the north axound the athletic
field, but we feel Spring would be appropriate and it could go up to
Olympia. The one thing we can't do is to move it into a.nother area
' without ha,ving noticed the people. �
Chuck Glass - Staff did talk to the school Principal relative to the
issues of tod.ay and the principal indicated there was no problem with the
removal of pa,rking on Spring, however, they would ha.ve a problem if
parking removal were effected an Prospect north of Spring.
Commissioner Leming - If we approve this item I assume items C and E
would be unnecessaxy. If we don't do something along Spring all those
property owners tha.t back up to Vine they will just be moving the problem
over to tha.t street.
, -15-
CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
Bill Gaisbiaur - Parking as far as from Prospect east and ha,ving it stop
at Olmypia ma,y I suggest that rather than ha,ving it stop at Olympia that
ma.ybe only 2 cars could park there or 3 and then there is a driveway
where the buses go into the paxking lot for high school functions. By
alleviating that parking there also it would make it easier and alot less
dangerous for buses to go in and out of the bus paxking lot.
Bill Adamo - Just south of Ma.ple on the east side of Prospect there is a
sma.11 spot tha.t is red right now, tha,t ha.s been a tremendous help in
trying to get out of Ma,ple and not being hit by an on-coming cax. It
would be better if tha.t whole side was stopped from paxking.
Robin Mathews - Are the people from the apartments ever cited for
Jaywalking across Prospect? They are constantly walking across and tha,t
is why you eannot pull out. Can we also think of a crosswalk there or
something, its impossible. .
Bernie Dennis - Last night at the City Cauncil meeting a crosswalk
installation across Prospect on the north side of Maple was approved.
They approved the additional lighting on the east side of Prospect and
they approved, dependent upon wha.t ha.ppened tod.ay, some vision zones on
. the west side of the street at Maple and Vine, and they also approved the
installation of some 'No Jaywalking' signs.
R��ClOMh�[iIDATION: APP�DVE the ori�na 1 request and egtend it fra� Pt�aspect
easterly on both sides of Spring Ave. to the drive�a.y
adjacent to the schoc�l property.
MOTION - D. Yarger
SEOOND - B. Leming
AYES - Unanimous
C. Request for the installation of 'No Paxking Monday. 7-11 AM' for street
sweeping purposes on both sides of the 100 block of N. Prospect St.
Diane Beverly
170 N. Prospect St.
Orange, CA 92669
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
your copy.
D�.scussion:
Chairman Yarger - This request is superceded by the pa.rking permit
program and the No Stopping Anytime restrictions.
-16-
' CTC Minutes 4/11/90 - Cont'd.
R���E�1IDATION: DII�1Y
MOTION - D. Yar�er
SEOOND - B. Leming -
AYES - Unanimous
E. Request for the installation of 'No Parking Monday 7-11 AM' for street
sweeping purposes on both sides of Prospe�t St. from Chapman Ave.
northerly to Spring Ave., and on both sides of Spring Ave. from
Prospect St. easterly to Swidler St.
Traffic Engineering Division �
City of Orange
Oral presentation is based on the written staff report, please refer to
�our copy.
Discussion:
Chairman Yarger - This request is superceded by the permit parking
program and the No Stopping Anytime issue.
R�OO��TDgTION: DII�IYY
MOTION - D. Yaxger -
SEC;�ND - F. Sciarra
� AYES - Unanimous
H. Oral Presentations - None
I. Adjournment was at 5:05 PM.
Next regular meeting is May 9, 1990. �